posted on December 30, 2003 06:03:51 AM new
I suspect that the disease is much more widespread than is currently being reported. When only 20,000 cows are tested in the US out of 33 millilon being slaughtered yearly, there is simply no reliable information available. Since asymptomatic animals carry the disease for several years there is no excuse not to check every single cow that is slaughtered for consumption. There is no excuse to import untested animals.
It's criminal how the media bows to industry and makes such an effort to manipulate all information. Now, instead of picturing the downer cow, sick and unable to walk, there are scenes of happy cows, grazing in a beautiful pasture.
Self regulation will not work with the cattle industry because too much money is involved. Nothing will be done to curb this disease and the mad cow disease "scare" will blow over. But, eventually people will develop the disease and we will experience an epidemic and financial disaster even worse that the one in England.
posted on December 30, 2003 06:45:51 AM new
ok, not only is it some ploy for the financial end of this, for NOT showing sick and falling down cows, but how bout not having a big(er) panic throughout the country? and the world?
If the media only showed sickly cows, everyone is freaking out, esp. beef eaters, and their all lined up at their drs office, thinking they have some kind of mad cow disease
Its already on the front page of every newspaper, first story on the news on TV everyday, people KNOW, why try and make this worse? I believe the beef industry and the government are doing all they can to track this down, and do what they can. What more do you want?
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posted on December 30, 2003 07:27:41 AM new
That's just the problem, nearthesea. The Government is not "doing all they can to track this down and do what they can." They are tracking it down in hopes to pen it on Canada while leaving the American people with the impression that only one cow is involved. They continue to lobby against testing all animals and against avoiding the use of obviously sick animals. They continue to look the other way when it's discovered that contaminated feed is used. They continue to use hormones and antibiotics when they are not necessary. When profit is their only motive there is no incentive to regulate their industry. Government must provide appropriate guidelines and the best motivator for change is public opinion.
Public opinion influences legislation. With people taking a cavalier attitude toward the problem, nothing will be done. What's more important to you...money for the cattle industry or the health of the people in this country?
US officials said Monday that investigators still aren't certain whether the infected cow came from Canada....
Federal investigators increased to 81 the number of cattle now roaming the US that may have been exposed to Mad Cow disease, Tuesday's Wall Street Journal reported.
Of course the governement is working to track this down....it's not an easy process. Record keeping makes it very difficult.
Besides the mad cow problem, maybe a little public hysteria will bring some attention to the need for inspections for salmonella and other bacterial infections that the meat industry would like to forget.
posted on December 30, 2003 09:57:25 AM newThe federal government's ability to quickly control the fallout from the nation's first case of mad-cow disease is being complicated by poor record keeping of cattle shipments and the inexperience of U.S. officials, who never have had to deal with a mad-cow discovery, agricultural experts say.
Indeed, a week into the federal government's search for the source of this mad-cow case, investigators have just managed to confirm the age of the infected cow at its slaughter -- 6 1/2 years -- which is crucial to figuring how long ago it might have been infected. The mad-cow disease can incubate silently for three to six years.
posted on December 30, 2003 10:35:15 AM new
That's exactly what I said, winda.
Lack of record keeping makes it very difficult.
On the other hand, you said in your previous statement, "Record keeping makes it very difficult." I quess I should have known that your statement was a brain glitch or something.
Imported cattle should be carefully tracked and recorded...especially since they were imported from a contry which has dealt with an infected animal. Inexperience is not an excuse. Any idiot should know that.
posted on December 30, 2003 11:11:12 AM new
They are all given ear tags, so tracking should be a no-brainer. You look at the number on the ear tag... you go check on the computer where that cow comes from and you're done. 5 seconds at the most to check. What's the hold up?
posted on December 30, 2003 11:31:29 AM newThey are all given ear tags, so tracking should be a no-brainer. You look at the number on the ear tag... you go check on the computer where that cow comes from and you're done. 5 seconds at the most to check. What's the hold up?
I don't believe that is the case, KD. Those ear tags aren't cheap and I doubt ALL cattlemen use them. Did all your Canadian cows have them? It took Canada quite a while to hunt down your MCD problem cows too.
posted on December 30, 2003 11:40:16 AM new
I don't know. I do not think we NEED public hysteria over this though.
I do believe they are doing all they can to investigate and track this all down.
What is going to be the 'fall out'? I don't know. But we don't need any panic or hysteria.
For your own personal beliefs in our system, then I suggest cutting all beef out of your diet. And possibly all meat. (and no, I am not being sarcastic, I am giving beef or rather hamburger second thoughts these days) And everyone needs to think about that for themselves. Then we'll all see what happens within the beef industry.
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posted on December 30, 2003 11:46:12 AM new
All cattle here get ear tags and are branded (it's the law), so for Canada OR the U.S. to say it will take some time to track this cow (or that cow) down, is stupid. They're using this "discovery" time to think of a good spin to tell consumers - that's all.
posted on December 30, 2003 11:56:11 AM new
Krafty - unless each of those ear tags have a GPS tracking device inside them they do not allow for immediate location of the animal. If an animal is sold a couple times, or put up for auction then you have to depend on each owner and their records in order to track the travels.
Every car has to have a VIN number. Does that mean you immediately know where it is?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 30, 2003 12:02:04 PM new
Near, if Japan is now testing every cow for slaughter, and they're finding mad cow in asymptomatic calves, there is a VERY serious problem with meat. Until every single piece of meat is tested and passed, nobody should eat any. The meat industry is failing you. They try to pass bad meat off as good so the money keeps flowing. Have you EVER heard of the meat industry telling you they have or have had ANY kind of problem EVER?
posted on December 30, 2003 12:11:58 PM new
Fenix, cars and meat are a bit different. We don't eat cars. Cattle are tagged and documented from the time they are born. Every farmer knows exactly where each cow has come from and they are inspected and recorded at each grazing and feed lot. Let me say this... if someone said find cow #A3610 because it's genes are worth billions, I bet they'd be able to locate it within minutes.
posted on December 30, 2003 12:26:02 PM new
Well, happy holidays to you too, Twelve.
I agree with you though, Twelve. Once MCD was discovered in Canada, all exporting should have stopped. Actually, all meat export should've stopped when this disease was discovered, but making money is way more important than a few deaths here and there.
posted on December 30, 2003 12:36:00 PM new
oh, and all that meat was sent to processing to be hamburger so the one that had MCD is mixed in with all the others, and yes, they have told us all that also.
most of the stores mentioned have recalled or is supposed to recall that beef from that processing plant.
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posted on December 30, 2003 12:59:14 PM new
KD - Since June 2003 your country is not testing each and every cow like Japan currently is doing.
Edited to add this from the same article:
[i]The premier of Alberta, Ralph Klein, whose province has been hit hard by the mad cow disease scare, is considering travelling to Japan to make his pitch for the reinstatement of Canadian beef exports. He says it is ridiculous for the Japanese to require that beef from the US be labelled to show that it is the country of origin, and not Canada. The Japanese are demanding the new labels be in place this week.
"You can't tell an American cow from a Canadian cow, " a frustrated Mr Klein told reporters. Cattle regularly cross the border to be fattened at feedlots, and ranchers have crossbred herds for years[/i].
In 2001, Japan reported the first case outside of Europe, and over the next few years, five more cases were found. Japan now tests all of its cattle, after they have been slaughtered, for BSE, a measure not taken in Canada or the United States.
And I've read on other sites that testing in the early stages of MCD doesn't show accurate results. Much of our beef that is slaughtered is under 30 months old...and according to reports the disease doesn't show up that early.
--------
Of course it's silly to *panic*. We're all concerned. Worldwide there have only been 120-150 cases of humans getting this disease since the early 1990's, and most of those were in the UK.
The governement has good reason to get a good hold on this problem....to say otherwise is insane.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 30, 2003 01:19 PM ]
posted on December 30, 2003 01:02:34 PM new
KD - All cattle here get ear tags and are branded (it's the law), so for Canada OR the U.S. to say it will take some time to track this cow (or that cow) down, is stupid.
According to one report I read there is NO requirement that forces countries [Canada or the US] to tag what country the cows originated from. That is most likely why their still conflicting reports as to what country this cow came from.
posted on December 30, 2003 01:25:32 PM new
I agree. Because the disease is so new - even the concept of a faulty protein is new, so there's bound to be a lot of misconceptions and false information.
I read that the disease can be easily detected, even in asymptomatic animals, (one of Helen's links) and that the testing isn't very expensive. From what I gather, the meat industry didn't want to go to this extent in testing because of the added costs, AND the fear it would make consumers aware of what REALLY happens behind closed doors. I mean, if meat is so great and good for you, why is this industry shrouded in secrecy? (I'm referring to Canada and the U.S.)
Helen's link??? Guess as usual there's a difference of opinion.
This one states:
"(BSE tests) are NOT perfect by any means and they lack sensitivity throughout the average 5 year incubation period of the disease, but these tests certainly pick up serious disease in the LAST YEAR of the incubation period."
Might be hard to judge and keep track of when this "last year of incubation period" ends and begins.
why is this industry shrouded in secrecy? (I'm referring to Canada and the U.S.) What secrecy are you seeing? When Japan had their MCD, when Canada had theirs and now with the US dealing with ours, it has been opening reported. How do you see this as shrouded in secrecy?
This was also copied and pasted from our own CDC website.
Is BSE a foodborne hazard in the United States?
Strong evidence indicates that BSE has been transmitted to humans primarily in the United Kingdom, causing a variant form of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD). In the United Kingdom, where over 1 million cattle may have been infected with BSE, a substantial species barrier appears to protect humans from widespread illness. As of December 1, 2003, a total of 153 vCJD cases had been reported worldwide; of these, 143 cases had occurred in the United Kingdom. The risk to human health from BSE in the United States is extremely low.
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 30, 2003 02:26 PM ]
posted on December 30, 2003 02:45:01 PM new
yeah, I remember some of Britians mad cow problem. So that was lethal in how many people vs how much cattle? Not that ANY death is acceptable or ok, but now, with them knowing a little more, YES, I think the beef industry is going to be very cautious now.
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posted on December 30, 2003 02:58:23 PM new
Linda, here is part of the article Helen posted. The original link is on page 2.
Dr. Stanley Prusiner, winner of Nobel Prize in Medicine for his work on prion rebuffed by Veneman.
Exerpt...
Ever since he identified the bizarre brain-destroying proteins that cause mad cow disease, Dr. Stanley Prusiner, a neurologist at the University of California at San Francisco, has worried about whether the meat supply in America is safe.
He spoke over the years of the need to increase testing and safety measures. Then in May, a case of mad cow disease appeared in Canada, and he quickly sought a meeting with Ann M. Veneman, the secretary of agriculture. He was rebuffed, he said in an interview yesterday, until he ran into Karl Rove, senior adviser to President Bush.
So six weeks ago, Dr. Prusiner, who won the 1997 Nobel Prize in Medicine for his work on prions, entered Ms. Veneman's office with a message. "I went to tell her that what happened in Canada was going to happen in the United States," Dr. Prusiner said. "I told her it was just a matter of time."
The department had been willfully blind to the threat, he said. The only reason mad cow disease had not been found here, he said, is that the department's animal inspection agency was testing too few animals. Once more cows are tested, he added, "we'll be able to understand the magnitude of our problem."
This nation should immediately start testing every cow that shows signs of illness and eventually every single cow upon slaughter, he said he told Ms. Veneman. Japan has such a program and is finding the disease in young asymptomatic animals.
Fast, accurate and inexpensive tests are available, Dr. Prusiner said, including one that he has patented through his university.
Ms. Veneman's response (he said she did not share his sense of urgency) left him frustrated. That frustration soared this week after a cow in Washington State was tentatively found to have the disease. If the nation had increased testing and inspections, meat from that cow might never have entered the food chain, he said.
Ms. Veneman was not available for interviews yesterday, and the White House referred all questions to the department. A spokeswoman for Ms. Veneman, Julie Quick, said: "We have met with many experts in this area, including Dr. Prusiner. We welcome as much scientific input and insight as we can get on this very important issue. We want to make sure that our actions are based on the best available science."
In Dr. Prusiner's view, Ms. Veneman is getting poor scientific advice. "U.S.D.A. scientists and veterinarians, who grew up learning about viruses, have difficulty comprehending the novel concepts of prion biology," he said. "They treat the disease as if it were an infection that you can contain by quarantining animals on farms. It's as though my work of the last 20 years did not exist."
Scientists have long been fascinated by a group of diseases, called spongiform encephalopathies, that eat away at the brain, causing madness and death. The leading theory was that they were caused by a slow-acting virus. But in 1988, Dr. Prusiner proposed a theory that seemed heretical at the time: the infectious agent was simply a type of protein, which he called prions.
Prions (pronounced PREE-ons), he and others went on to establish, are proteins that as a matter of course can misfold — that is, fold themselves into alternative shapes that have lethal properties — and cause a runaway reaction in nervous tissue. As more misfolded proteins accumulate, they kill nerve cells.
Animals that eat infected tissues can contract the disease, setting off an epidemic as animals eat each other via rendered meats. But misfolded proteins can also arise spontaneously in cattle and other animals, Dr. Prusiner said. It is not known whether meat from animals with that form of the disease could pass the disease to humans, he said, but it is a risk that greatly worries him.
Cattle with sporadic disease are probably entering the food chain in the United States in small numbers, Dr. Prusiner and other experts say.
Brain tissue from the newly discovered dairy cow in Washington is now being tested in Britain to see if it matches prion strains that caused the mad cow epidemic there, or if it is a homegrown American sporadic strain, Dr. Prusiner said.
"The problem is we just don't know the size of the problem," he said. "We don't know the prevalence or incidence of the disease."
~
"We want to keep prions out of the mouths of humans," Dr. Prusiner said. "We don't know what they might be doing to us."
His laboratory is working on promising treatments for the human form of mad cow disease but preventing its spread is just as important, he said. "Science is capable of finding out how serious the problem is," he said, "but only government can mandate the solutions."
posted on December 30, 2003 03:16:54 PM new
Krafty - I respect the fact that you are a vegetarian but I think people have the ability to decide what is right for them and to say that all meat production should end because of a single diseased cow is about as reactionary and irresponsible as it comes. Food poisonaing from Chicken is more common that mad cow disease. Hell I think death by vending machine is more common but no one is advocating the abolishment of the poulty industry or coke machines.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 30, 2003 03:20:03 PM new
:: The only reason mad cow disease had not been found here, he said, is that the department's animal inspection agency was testing too few animals. Once more cows are tested, he added, "we'll be able to understand the magnitude of our problem." ::
Am I the only one that keeps wondering why there has not been a single case of MCD in the US. I mean if the disease is so prevelen and the esting so lax - shouldn't someone have it?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on December 30, 2003 03:23:12 PM new
KD - As I have previously stated we ALL are concerned about this disease and admit we know very little about how it travels from animals to humans.
But there is no reason to panic. Your country had ONE case of MCD. Did anyone die from that? Now ours has ONE case. The number of people who have caught this human related disease are minuscule, compared to the number who have eaten beef for years.
The governements have worked, and are still working to find out how this disease is transmitted to humans. And because of the studies they HAVE made changes to how our cows are fed and what parts of their bodies are no longer processed and used in 'meal' to feed other animals.
This is NOT ignoring the problem. This is NOT secrecy of any kind. Our governments are NOT trying to kill off all our citizens. They are working on the problem.
And, yes, there are differing opinions by many on what measures we should take to prevent this illness from killing more people.
In response to global pressure and concern within the United States, the USDA has FINALY announced new restrictions...LONG overdue to control the use of diseased cattle in our food supply. Downer animals will no longer be used.
"The new rules will require meat from any cow that is being tested for BSE to be withheld from the food supply until testing is completed, a process that will usually take about two days, according to USDA officials. Currently, meat from the carcass could be sent on for processing even while the animals' brains and spinal cords are being tested."
In the recent case, the animal meat was added to the food supply BEFORE the results of the tests for BSE were known.
Veneman said the new rules will go into effect as soon as they can be published.
Cattle are tagged and documented from the time they are born. Every farmer knows exactly where each cow has come from and they are inspected and recorded at each grazing and feed lot. Let me say this... if someone said find cow #A3610 because it's genes are worth billions, I bet they'd be able to locate it within minutes.
