posted on January 6, 2004 09:43:24 PM new84% of those who voted in the California recall election believe that stopping illegal immigration is important. Of those, 40% said stopping illegal immigration is extremely important. 64% of those who voted in the recall believe that illegal immigration has had a negative impact on California.
Luntz Poll, October 2003
I seriously doubt the less liberal states are more open to welcoming illegals that the Californians on that poll. Almost all polls back into the clinton years show the majority of American's want illegals deported. Some call for their property to be confiscated too. I'd support that.
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This won't change my vote for re-electing this president. Because there's no democratic candidate running, in 2004, who's offering to do even this much with our illegal problem.
posted on January 7, 2004 05:41:54 AM new
This plan simply represents another self serving, lying, sneaky maneuver by Bush...all aimed at getting votes for his sorry ass and at the same time rewarding employers with cheap labor while really offering the workers themselves very little. It would take hundreds of thousands of green cards to accommodate the millions of immigrants in the country who want to work.
He wants to increase the nation's yearly allotment of green cards but won't say by how much.
He wants the workers three-year term in the program to be renewable but won't say for how long.
He won’t specify how to enforce the requirement that no American worker wants the job the foreign worker is taking
The biggest unresolved question is how the plan will allow illegal immigrants access, which they do not now have, to the process of applying for green cards, or permanent U.S. residency.
posted on January 7, 2004 07:09:34 AM new
Here's an interesting statement for you. While covering the imigration proposal on the Today Show this morning the White correspondent said that BUsh aides have stated plainly that if Bush does not recieve more support from the Latino community he will not win the election.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 7, 2004 07:33:03 AM new
That's refreshingly honest but I don't think that the Latino community will be so easily duped into voting for Bush. Immigration policy groups know that it is an election-year ploy.
"Current law generally requires any worker - legal or illegal, citizen or non-citizen - in the United States to have a total of about 10 years of work history to become eligible for Social Security retirement benefits. Under reciprocal agreements the United States has with about 20 nations, some foreign workers are permitted to count work history in their native countries toward the 10 years they need to become eligible for Social Security benefits. These agreements also keep workers and employers from paying taxes into both countries' government retirement systems."
Sooo...illegal aliens are eligible for Social Security?!?
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 7, 2004 07:50:05 AM new
As a person who voted Republican I do agree
with your statement that this is an election year ploy to secure Latino votes. I also believe that it will backfire. Unless a strong Independent candidate comes out of the shadows, I will not be voting Republican (or democratic for that matter) this year.
posted on January 7, 2004 08:17:27 AM new
::Sooo...illegal aliens are eligible for Social Security?!?::
Since one of the basic requirements of Social Security is a Social Security number, what do you think
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 7, 2004 08:59:38 AM new
It's already been established that our elected officials are out of touch, on this issue, with where the majority of American's stand on this illegal issue.
Our Congress will have to discuss all these separate issues and they will be the ones voting on them. Letters of protest to each of our elected representatives will go a long way to letting them know how much we oppose these propsals.
From bunni's article:
Bush also is expected to broadly discuss giving workers from some countries expanded access to Social Security benefits, sources familiar with the plan said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
posted on January 7, 2004 10:57:51 AM new
The illegals aren't dumb. They know that if Bush opens the floodgates for alien workers, the ones already here will have to compete with all those that will now enter under the Bush plan.
If I were here illegally, I would want at the least the status quo, and/or a sealing of the border. The only thing I would be against is policing illegals already here - and I would be suspect of any amnesty or registering.
posted on January 7, 2004 01:52:15 PM new
This is the United States Of America, it is your country, it is my country, it is our country. I really do not feel like sharing it's bounty with the citizens of Vietnam, China, Haiti, Mexico, Columbia, etc.
All of those countries and more have their social problems and we, the USA, can't keep allowing their troubled citizens to come here and take advantage of our generosity. We have enough trouble keeping our own citizens employed. We can't employ the whole dam world.
When our ship becomes too overloaded and starts to sink, so to speak, where will the illegals be?? Will they and/or their respective countries come to OUR aid, NO. In fact the illegals will jump off like rats jumping off a burning ship.
IMO they are here to take advantage of the land of milk, honey and opportunity. The key word here being "take" because IMO they aren't here to make any sort of a contribution.
How many recent illegal immigrants have joined our armed forces to contribute something to their new country?? In all fairness, I do know that there are some that have joined up but just a very small percentage of them.
To these few that are contributing in a meaningful manner I say thanks and welcome aboard. To the ones that are only here to take, I say adios, sianara, diddymow, {sp} goodbye and DON'T COME BACK.
Ed to fix some of my bad spelling.
[ edited by yellowstone on Jan 7, 2004 02:02 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2004 02:05:38 PM new
This is what angers me:
The plan would, he said:
Make America safer by giving the government a better idea of who was crossing U.S. borders. Bolster the economy by meeting employers’ needs for willing low-wage workers. Fulfill a mandate for compassion by guaranteeing the rights and legitimacy of illegal workers. Employers would have to pay them the minimum wage and their Social Security taxes. Provide incentives to entice those workers to go back to their homelands — a nod to conservatives who oppose any reward to those who enter the United States illegally. The incentives include allowing them to collect retirement benefits in their home countries based on Social Security taxes paid in the United States.
I'm sorry, but if you are working here, you should be living here. You should be giving back to this country. Not taking the money and running. Guess I'm bad for feeling this way. Bush is really cooking his goose now.
Edited to add: I highly doubt the Latino population in this country who are here legally can be so easily manipulated into voting for Bush. They are in need of work, too.
posted on January 7, 2004 02:23:10 PM new I highly doubt the Latino population in this country who are here legally can be so easily manipulated into voting for Bush. They are in need of work, too.
You're correct there Cheryl, and he desperately needs our votes. He's not getting mine. This whole thing shows how one dimensional Bush's view of the latino community is. ...like we're all going to be so overjoyed that he's willing to help immigrants that we'll abandon all the other reasons we are mostly Democrat (except for the Cubanos) and vote for him. Just as this action won't sway Linda, it won't sway me either.
___________________________________
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.
-- P. J. ORourke (Holidays in hell, 1989)
I have quite a few Latino friends. I'd say 80% of them are in need of work that pays enough to support their families. Like Victor said to me: It's not that American's don't want these jobs. It's that the corporations won't hire them if they can hire the illegals more cheaply. What makes Bush think that will change? You can support a family in Mexico on minimum wage, but you cannot support one here.
Of course, he had a lot more than that to say! He's like me - he can't stand to look at the man and he can't stand to hear him speak.
posted on January 7, 2004 02:50:08 PM new
Between the economy and the illegal alien policies, I can not vote for Bush either.
It's beginning to look as though anyone in the White House can handle the war on terrorism as well as Bush is doing.
I have a sinking feeling that we (the West) will look back at the days when Saddam ruled Iraq as much better than the radical muslim theocracies that may very well take over in Iraq, and probably Afghanistan, and then Pakistan.
It seems as though we now have a stalemate in the war on terrorism.
If a candidate would directly address these economic issues, which includes exporting jobs and illegal aliens, then he will have my ear and my vote.
posted on January 7, 2004 06:07:39 PM new
::How many recent illegal immigrants have joined our armed forces to contribute something to their new country?? In all fairness, I do know that there are some that have joined up but just a very small percentage of them. ::
Actually none have since citizens of other countries that do not have legal residency status in the US are not allowed to enlis. However quite a few legal residents that had not yet been granted citizen ship are enlisted in our millitary. If you remember, prior to Bush's landing on the carrier 108 members of it's crew deboarded in Hawaii and were flown to San Diego for a swearing in ceremony before meeting up with their shipmates again and returning to duty.
There was another special swearing ceremony on another of our carriers while in the Gulf.
Of the 60,000 immigrants in the U.S. military, about half are non-U.S. citizens.
Approx 10% of the current US military forces are Latino however when broken down to duties approx 25% of those in combat situations are Latino.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Jan 7, 2004 06:15 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2004 06:26:29 PM new
how many illegal immigrants have enlisted in the service.... You were just kidding right?
thanks for the numbers fenix....
___________________________________
The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then gets elected and proves it.
-- P. J. ORourke (Holidays in hell, 1989)
posted on January 7, 2004 06:29:15 PM new
Fenix, you're right and I am glad you posted that so I didnt have to. The government also put in some type of an escalation to make green card holders in the military citzens, fast and easily. I think illegals would serve if they could; gotta be better and a cleaning job somewhere with no bennies.
BTW, they are are also staving off retirments and anyone due to be getting 'out' right now because of the middle east.
My statement; In all fairness, I do know that there are some that have joined up but just a very small percentage of them.
When I wrote that I was thinking something about your reply but I couldn't remember it exactly. I do beleive you are right and it was what I was thinking.
I will reiterate and say to thems that are making a meaningful contribution to their new country by joining our military; Thanks and welcome aboard.
posted on January 7, 2004 08:31:06 PM new
Prof & Nero -
Yellow - Latinos make up 13% of the US population which is only slightly above their 10% presence in the military. I don't think that is a relatively small number. I think it is a fair representation of their position in society. When you consider that they make of 25% of the combat forces that's nearly twice their representation of our general population.
There has in fact been 1 former illegal alien that enrolled and was in Iraq - he immgrated as a 12 year old child traveling thousands of miles alone from Guatamala CIty to Los Angeles where he was caught but was made award of the state when his status as an orphan was confirmed and eventually granted citizenship. He died in March of last year in Iraq. His name was U.S. Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Jose Antonio Gutierrez.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 8, 2004 10:07:57 AM new
Twelve - did I not say FORMER ILLEGAL? DId I not say that he was "eventually granted citizenship"? As I look up there to that post I swear I see those words. The only reason I even brought it up was Yellowstones statement about illegals enlisting which we both know they cannot do - I gave him the history of one special case.
What, you couldn't find any spelling errors to pick on? I have come to expect better of you Twelve. That was disappointing.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 8, 2004 01:00:56 PM new
Your proud American there not only thought that an illegal could enlist but was complaining that he felt they were not doing it in large enough numbers so lets drop the pretense on me since I am the one that corrected him.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 9, 2004 03:04:18 PM new
Can someone answer this for me? Why can't Mexico create it's own jobs for it's own people? I would think NAFTA would have opened the doors for Mexico. Or take any 'poor' country for that matter. They flock to the U.S. for jobs, education, whatever, then end up staying and moving their relatives to them, instead of going back to their own country to try and help improve their own living conditions. Why don't these countries EVER get anywhere?
posted on January 9, 2004 03:30:56 PM new
yellowstone, just ignore austbounty, he knows less about his own country than he claims to know about ours...
posted on January 9, 2004 03:34:09 PM new
::They flock to the U.S. for jobs, education, whatever, then end up staying and moving their relatives to them, instead of going back to their own country to try and help improve their own living conditions.::
Actually Krafty there are numerous groups of business owners that have moved to the US and built successful businesses that have banded together in organizations according to their home state that send money home for the community, have built new factories, stores, loan money to business start-ups etc in order to help stregnthen their home communities but it takes time. You don't turn around the kind of problems that Mexico has in a few years. You can build a factory, you can employ people but if no one has the money to buy your product what's the point?
Mexico's economy was strengthening prior to 9-11 just as ours was. Their economy is closly tied to ours. When our economy nose dived and people stopped buying all but the necessary products, they stopped buying products made in those Mexican factories and with no one to buy their products, the factories shut down. When the factories shut down the people once again had no money and could not afford to support local businesses. Remember "trickle down economics"? The bad trickles down too.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 9, 2004 06:49:15 PM newausthole I just love that one, who was it that came up with it??
You’re sounding like a green eyed monster. Which of your forefathers did NOT migrate to America for opportunistic reasons.
I do know that some of my forefathers arrived about the same time as some of the earliest explorers. As far as what their intentions were, I'm sorry but I don't happen to have a copy of their memoirs at this time.
Why not also say that they are taking American’s opportunities of being promoted in the military, every time one of these immigrants does.?
I did NOT say welcome aboard but with the stipulation that you can't accept any promotions.
Oh yeah, one more thing about forefathers since you brought it up. What sort of heinous and nasty crimes did your forefathers commit to be banished to Austrailia.
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You were just kidding right?
