posted on February 9, 2004 04:58:46 PM new
How pathetic that you are left with Rush Limbaugh scrapings from the bottom of the barrel. I'm surprised that you would stoop so low in your effort to smear an honored Vietnam Veteran - a man who entered the Navy after graduation, becoming a Swift Boat officer, serving on a gunboat in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam -- a veteran who received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat.
Take your dope dependent rabble rouser and stuff it ebayauctionguy.
posted on February 9, 2004 05:03:45 PM new
nice post EAG, and all the left can do is scream about President Bush's record.... Kerry hanging out with that traitor B*tch.... LOL now that is something to look at... whishy washy at best...
We don't need a President that can't pick a side and stay there.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
heh, who really cares in a world were queers can be married...
posted on February 9, 2004 05:14:32 PM new
Jane Fonda???? LOL!
In April 1971, testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Kerry asked the question of his fellow citizens, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Sen. Claiborne Pell, (D-R.I.) thanked Kerry, then 27, for testifying before the committee, expressing his hope that Kerry "might one day be a colleague of ours in this body."
Kerry also came to McCain's defense against the claims spread by the Bush campaign that McCain had abandoned veterans during his years in Congress. "That meant a lot to me," says McCain. When Nebraska Democrat Bob Kerry was accused of having taken part in a massacre, Kerry and the other veterans raced to his defense in person and in the Op-Ed pages.
"I told Rush the same thing on the air and then asked him if he'd seen the New Yorker piece on Kerry. [A penetrating, thoughtful profile by Joe Klein that I ought to have mentioned last week.]
"Slowly and deliberately I told the story about how in response to the Vietnam War, John Kerry had gone down to the recruiting office to sign up to fight along with his two best friends, John J. Pershing III and Fred Smith, the founder of Federal Express. When Rush tried to bring up the smear about him not having his troops behind him, I explained that Kerry had been referring to how he won his Silver Star rescuing crew members of his fast-boat who had fallen overboard, and been wounded even while fending off a Vietcong machine gun nest.
"I then asked Rush how Bush might respond if, in the debates, Kerry asked him where he had been when he didn't show up for his plum [National Guard] assignment for a year. Or for that matter, how [Rush] could disparage a war hero when he himself had dodged the Vietnam Draft by claiming to have a boil on his butt.
posted on February 9, 2004 08:21:37 PM new
There isn't any documentation on that link...has Kerry acknowleged that it's him? Are we supposed to take Limbaugh's word for it?....I'm not crazy about Kerry, and Jane Fonda has been irrelevant for more than a generation...Limbaugh on the other hand...how anyone could take anything that hypocritical, pompous, bigoted, drug addicted blowhard says seriously is beyond me.
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posted on February 10, 2004 11:00:31 AM new
We've got a drug addicted draft dodging talk show host berating A DECORATED WAR HERO in favor of a deserter in time of war.
posted on February 10, 2004 12:06:23 PM newA DECORATED WAR HERO
That is Disgracing The Marine Corps Memorial
These are not the actions of a Hero:
Veterans Should Politically Banish Kerry for Disgracing The Marine Corps Memorial
By Rick Erickson
January 26, 2004
On the cover of "The New Soldier" by John Kerry and Vietnam Veterans Against The War, hippies clad in a mismatch of military uniforms are pictured [b]mocking the legendary image of Marines raising the American flag atop Mount Suribachi in the 1945 battle for Iwo Jima[b]. Today, the Iwo Jima image is a memorial statue that sits above Arlington National Cemetery and honors all Marines killed in action since 1775. It is one of the most recognized and visited sites in our Capitol City.
"The New Soldier" never made it on the reading list at our military academies. In the cover photo that ridicules the Marine Corps Memorial, one of Kerry's cronies is tugging on our flag, which is hung upside down as the ultimate symbol of sedition and treachery to all veterans who rallied behind our flag in battle. On the day of that shameful photograph and with its mass circulation on the cover of "The New Soldier", at least 6,821 Marines who died at Iwo Jima turned over in their graves.
Of all the reasons why John F. Kerry will not become President of the United States, the biggest reason has to be that, once he returned home from Vietnam, he betrayed his fellow servicemen who remained at war. Kerry not only allied with the likes of Hanoi Jane Fonda, but, before the United States Senate in 1971, Kerry went as far as to belittle the bravery of embattled troops by generalizing their every action in Vietnam as an atrocity.
No one questioned General George S. Patton, III, when he accused Kerry of treason in giving aid and comfort to the enemy, especially when it was revealed that North Vietnam incorporated Kerry's exploits into its communist propaganda machine. However, because of the prevalence of treason at the time and the monumental task of prosecuting Kerry and his proclaimed "revolutionaries," Kerry's actions went unpunished and the associated advances of communism went unhindered.
Fortunately, today's veterans and Americans who overwhelmingly support our armed forces tend to disparage those who dishonor military service and then pretend to be capable of our country's highest office. This political reality afflicted Bill Clinton, whose anti-military past kept him from winning any more than forty-nine percent of the popular vote. No wonder Kerry's presidential campaign is doing its best to subvert his estrangement from veterans and service people in general.
The tact of Kerry for President looks a lot like Clinton-Gore's approach to deceiving voters that such an obvious liability is really the opposite. When Kerry marched in the Veteran's Day parade in Phoenix last year, in tow behind him were a few people carrying "Veterans for Kerry" placards. Some placard carriers looked like the ragtag types on the cover of The New Solider in that they were unshaven, wearing circa 1971 clothes and appeared disoriented.
The ongoing insult is that "Veterans for Kerry" is supposed to represent the veteran community's support of Kerry, when the reality is that very few veterans support him. Most veterans cannot forgive Kerry for Vietnam Veterans Against The War and its promotion of communism when we were fighting communists. As far as U.S. Marines are concerned, we ought to ensure that Kerry is forever banished from the White House for dishonoring our Memorial on the cover of "The New Soldier".
When Howard Dean challenged Sen. John Kerry’s effectiveness as a senator last week, Sen. Kerry defended himself in part by noting that he helped pass Agent Orange benefits for Vietnam veterans.
That’s true, but it was a good deed done for the wrong reason ― one that has opened the door for Vietnam to bilk billions of dollars from U.S taxpayers.
A lawsuit was filed on Jan. 30 by the Vietnam Association for Victims of Agent Orange ― a front group formed by the government of Vietnam ― against 10 U.S. companies associated with the manufacture of Agent Orange, such as Dow Chemical and Monsanto . The lawsuit alleges that Agent Orange caused cancer, miscarriage and birth defects among three individuals.
The U.S. military sprayed millions of gallons of Agent Orange to defoliate forests in Vietnam from 1962 to 1971. The Agent Orange contained small amounts of dioxin, a substance that anti-chemical activists like to portray as being ultra-toxic.
Some Vietnam veterans who became ill after the war linked their illnesses to exposure to Agent Orange.
Armed with an unpublished report conducted by anti-chemical activists supposedly linking Agent Orange with veterans’ health problems, Sen. Kerry sponsored legislation in May 1990 to compensate Vietnam veterans for Agent Orange exposure, stating “It is not only appropriate but scientifically correct.”
But a fair reading of the still-ongoing scientific study of these veterans, including U.S. ground troops who operated in sprayed areas and the U.S. Air Force personnel responsible for spraying, actually indicates that there is no credible evidence that Agent Orange caused any health effects whatsoever.
Studies of the Air Force personnel ― the military personnel with the highest exposures to the dioxin in Agent Orange ― indicated they are as healthy as other Air Force personnel not involved in the spraying and are as healthy as other U.S. men in the general population, according to Dr. Michael Gough, a 10-year member of the U.S. government committee investigating the Agent Orange controversy.
Studies of the U.S. ground troops indicated they didn’t even have notable exposures to the dioxin in Agent Orange, added Gough.
At the time of the debate over Agent Orange compensation, however, the science wasn’t what was driving Sen, Kerry ― it was, rather, his rightful concern about how the country was treating its veterans.
“I find it highly disturbing that those people who went to fight the VC (Viet Cong) in Vietnam spend too much time fighting the VA (Department of Veterans Affairs) back here in this country,” Kerry proclaimed in 1988.
Certainly veterans should be well-taken care of by the nation they served, but the problem is that that Sen. Kerry and others made the basis of that compensation a supposed definite scientific link between Agent Orange and health effects ― something that didn’t and still doesn’t exist ― rather than a moral duty which does.
The lawsuit filed by Vietnam wasn’t available for review at the time I wrote this column, so I don’t know the precise details of their allegations. Suffice it to say for now, though, that based on what we know about Agent Orange and dioxin, the claims of related health effects aren’t likely to survive scientific scrutiny ― especially in federal court where scientific experts rather than politicians will decide the matter.
Not only has dioxin not been conclusively shown to cause health effects (other than a severe acne in the case of very high exposures), but the health effects alleged in the lawsuit are common and could have a myriad of causes, especially among poverty-stricken people in a third world country.
The Vietnamese lawsuit is unlikely to survive procedural motions to dismiss it. I doubt foreign nationals have the legal right to sue U.S. companies for health effects potentially related to the companies’ legally supplying the U.S. government with war materiel.
But despite scientific and legal hurdles, the controversy isn’t likely to go away either.
Hoping to grab an easy few billion dollars or so, the cash-strapped government of Vietnam claims that about three million of its citizens have been harmed by Agent Orange. Vietnam has enlisted the help of U.S. environmentalists ― notably dioxin hysteric Arnold Schecter of the University of Texas ― who are eager to blame dioxin for virtually any and every health effect imaginable.
Thanks to Sen. Kerry and others who established by declaration the notion that Agent Orange caused health problems, it will be difficult to rationalize why Vietnam vets are compensated for Agent Orange exposure but Vietnamese civilians shouldn’t be.
Perhaps someone should put that question to Sen. Kerry.
posted on February 10, 2004 02:24:02 PM new
First off Bear, if you had done your own research, instead of just reading the silly opinion given above, you would find gobs of studies which link Agent Orange to the following:
Chloracne
Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma
Soft Tissue Sarcoma
Hodgkin's Disease
Porphyria Cutanea Tarda
Multiple Myeloma
Respiratory Cancers (including cancers of the lung, larynx, trachea, and bronchus)
Prostate Cancer
Peripheral Neuropathy
Spinal Bifida
Type II Diabetes
Dioxin is one of the deadliest chemicals known to man.
Kerry's actions were taken to help thousands of US Service men and women who suffer from the above conditions. To slant it so it looks like his actions were directed primarily to the benefit of the Vietnamese is just plain wrong. If some Vietnamese should happen to benefit, so what? Would you deny US Veterans relief from their claims just to make a Democrat look bad?...wait, never mind, I guess you would.
posted on February 10, 2004 02:34:28 PM new
Here's a link to the VA homepage, regarding benefits that are currently available to vets who have recognized agent orange related conditions. The author of that article above should be ashamed of himself. Bet he's not a viet nam vet. I suspect we'll see lots more of this kind of dirty BS as the President's support begins to crumble.
posted on February 10, 2004 02:43:43 PM new
Here, Profe, have some fun:
"Junkman" Steven Milloy has made a career of lobbying for polluting industries, heading corporate front groups to deny environmental concerns, and ridiculing individual environmentalists on behalf of corporate interests. In the world according to Milloy, any scientific study that does not support the world view where all chemicals are safe is "junk science", all environmentalists are alarmist, and pollution and second hand smoke are harmless. The labels fly fast and furious, regardless of where the scientific mainstream falls on an issue and regardless of what point we are at in the scientific discovery process."
"The real problem is that Milloy, as judged from his writing, simply doesn't understand statistical techniques well enough to be able to write cogent criticisms of the poor statistical techniques used to support various health scares."
Speaking about Milloy's book, Junk Science Judo, Hines said this:
"The numerous serious flaws in the logic and coverage of this book render it essentially useless as a guide to the detection of junk science."
[i] First off Bear, if you had done your own research, instead of just reading the silly opinion given above, you would find gobs of studies which link Agent Orange to the following:
Chloracne
Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma
Soft Tissue Sarcoma
Hodgkin's Disease
Porphyria Cutanea Tarda
Multiple Myeloma
Respiratory Cancers (including cancers of the lung, larynx, trachea, and bronchus)
Prostate Cancer
Peripheral Neuropathy
Spinal Bifida
Type II Diabetes [/i]
Are you speaking from experience or taking someone else's word for it. Have you ever been exposed to Agent Orange?
Didn't think so.
I was exposed on many occasions & have none of those problems nor do any of my children or grandkids.
So until you can speak from personal experience all you are doing is flapping your jaws.
(Besides you didn't address the section of the report where Air Force personnel were exposed to greater concentrations of Agent Orange & suffered no symptoms)
"If you believe you can tell me what to think, I believe I can tell you where to go. Not all of us are sheep....."
posted on February 10, 2004 04:51:48 PM new
Kerry had every right to protest against the war. And as a wounded war hero Kerry's patriotism can not be challenged, especially by a deserter like Bush.
Now I hear that Bush was working on a top secret program while in the NG. He was experimenting with being a stealth F 102 pilot -- no one ever saw him at Guard duty. LOL !!!
BUSH -- THE FIRST AND ONLY STEALTH F-102 PILOT. LMAO !!!!
posted on February 10, 2004 05:42:28 PM new
LMAO at that link, Kiara! Y'all were in fine form that day -- even Twelvepole, with his trademark butchering of english:
"I would shoot the damn deviat piece of crap... "
How could anyone not love such an unarmed cripple as he, set adrift in this cruel world...
posted on February 10, 2004 06:15:57 PM new
I miss those old days, when Twelve used to read every single post we made. I hope we can all work this horrible mess out.
posted on February 10, 2004 06:27:16 PM new
Hmmmm....
Man goes to war gives his best effort serves honorably and comes home.
Finds that in his first hand experience the war was not reasonable and protests it strongly.
Doesn't sound like a waffler to me. Sounds like somebody that can change their mind given personal experience and evidence instead of blindly trying to cover his butt and deny any error no matter what.
Seems we could use even a little bit of that now instead of George the puppet and his minister of vice Dr. Strangelove Cheney. They will be out in the desert in Iraq digging for WOMD in their retirement like lost gold.
It's here somewhere! I believe!
Yes George we know you believe....
posted on February 10, 2004 07:11:14 PM new
Bear, you asked whether I had ever been exposed to agent orange, and then answered yourself for me in your own post...
I guess that about sums up your interest in the actual truth of the matter...sort of like your willingness to believe every crackpot forward in your inbox. Did you look at the VA homepage to see what effects of agent orange the VA routinely provides care for? I'll let you answer that one. While you're at it, answer me this one...If the effects of agent orange are so much BS, why is the VA accepting claims and providing treatment for all those maladays listed on their page?...and here's another one...would you deny Viet Nam veterans their rights to be treated for the results to the exposure to an untested chemical defoliant? I await your answer, although you didn't await mine.
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