logansdad
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posted on February 15, 2004 12:05:13 PM new
Twelve,
Here is my response to your last argument:
9. Same-sex marriage would start us down a "slippery slope" towards legalized incest, bestial marriage, polygamy and all kinds of other horrible consequences. A classic example of the reductio ad absurdum fallacy, it is calculated to create fear in the mind of anyone hearing the argument. It is, of course, absolutely without any merit based on experience. If the argument were true, wouldn't that have already happened in countries where forms of legalized gay marriage already exist? Wouldn't they have 'slid' towards legalized incest and bestial marriage? The reality is that a form of gay marriage has been legal in Scandinavian countries for over many years, and no such legalization has happened, nor has there been a clamor for it. It's a classic scare tactic - making the end scenario so scary and so horrible that the first step should never be taken. Such are the tactics of the fear and hatemongers.
If concern over the "slippery slope" were the real motive behind this argument, the advocate of this line of reasoning would be equally vocal about the fact that today, even as you read this, convicted murderers, child molesters, known pedophiles, drug pushers, pimps, black market gun dealers, etc., are quite free to marry, and are doing so. Where's the outrage? Of course there isn't any, and that lack of outrage betrays their real motives. This is an anti-gay issue and not a pro marriage issue.
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 15, 2004 12:16:08 PM new
Maybe that's why you're stuck on this subject, Twelve. You're assuming that all non-heterosexual relationships involve weird sex. Sex with same sex partners seems devious to you and you can't get away from that aspect of these relationships. I don't see anything wrong with marrying your truck, but what YOU see wrong with it is having sex with your truck. I would have married my cat too. He was better than any man I've dated, but I wouldn't have had sex with him. That's the part you're assuming right off the bat.
P.S. A bit OT, but when someone says ASS-U-ME, and says it makes an ass out of you and me, how does it make an ass out of the other person?
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logansdad
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posted on February 15, 2004 12:20:36 PM new
For the people who say they are not in favor of gay marriage because of tradition:
Was it not tradition in the early time to have marriages arranged by your parents?
Do you support going back to those times of having marraiges arranged for you?
I don't think so. How do you think the change came about? It came about by someone taking a stand against what their parents wishes were and what was the "norm" for that time.
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 15, 2004 12:24:27 PM new
Logansdad, I don't know of any traditions that aren't based on some religious belief, do you?
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kiara
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posted on February 15, 2004 01:31:24 PM new
I guess Twelve has been listening to that country music for way too long. There is actually a song about some guy marrying his truck. I can't put it all here because the lyrics are a bit bad but it goes like this:
im gettin married to my pickup truck
it doesn't leave me when im down on my luck
it doesn't shop at fancy stores or have a lawyer
or want a divorce
it doesn't care if I stay out late
it doesn't b!tch about the money i make
we'll be together till the end
it won't sleep with my best friend
You can see the rest of the lyrics here.
http://www.azlyrics.us/213242
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 15, 2004 02:07:45 PM new
I wonder why you, me and Helen are always the focus of Twelve's posts, Kiara? 
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logansdad
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posted on February 15, 2004 03:33:33 PM new
Kraft,
The only thing I can think of at the moment is fraternity initiation ceremonies - hazing.
I may be wrong, but that is the only thing that came to mind at the moment. I will have to think about this for a bit.
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
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plsmith
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posted on February 15, 2004 03:44:09 PM new
"Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge"
Period. End of discussion.
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Helenjw
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posted on February 15, 2004 03:46:36 PM new
Kraftdinner, he needs us to represent all that is reliable, vibrant and heterosexual as opposed to all that is homosexual which from his perspective is a threat and a fear. It's a conflict in which he uses all that he knows is good and true in order to stabilize his thinking while he comes to an understanding of that which he fails to comprehend. You, Kiara and I represent his comfort on a stormy sea. That is why he always speaks so fondly of us and although at times his comments may appear harsh his love for us is unparalleled.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Feb 15, 2004 03:48 PM ]
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plsmith
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posted on February 15, 2004 04:00:42 PM new
LMAO!
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Twelvepole
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posted on February 15, 2004 04:29:50 PM new
LOL that is one of the funniest things I have seen posted in a long time Helen...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
http://www.nogaymarriage.com/
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 15, 2004 04:36:57 PM new
That's perfect, Helen!
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bunnicula
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posted on February 15, 2004 04:45:40 PM new
It just pisses you off don't it, that you are not in the majority in this...
Not at all. In fact I think it is you that is "pissed off"--you and the people pushing for this amendment. You are angry and frustrated that Constitution protects minority opinion from that of the majority.
More and more I'm seeing folks who on one hand claim they revere the Founding Fathers and the Constitution while at the same time denigrating ideals espoused by both.
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
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plsmith
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posted on February 15, 2004 04:47:13 PM new
"More and more I'm seeing folks who on one hand claim they revere the Founding Fathers and the Constitution while at the same time denigrating ideals espoused by both."
Gee, would some of those people be holding the highest offices in America right now? 
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Twelvepole
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posted on February 15, 2004 05:04:57 PM new
Damn right I am pissed off when some Liberal Activist Judge decides that queers should be allow to marry... against the wishes of his state, some here may think that is bravery, however it won't last...
I am quite confident that this abomination will be stopped...
Then I will no longer be pissed off... queers do not deserve any privledges... getting married is not a right but a privledge.... just like driving a car.
I will be laughing at the queers who received those sham licenses in SF over the weekend have them stripped.
an amendment to the constitution will be placed into motion and it will get ratified... with almost 70% of the nation against queer marriages, it would be hard not to get ratified...
wonder how that makes them feel to know that they aren't as accepted as they thought they were?
Under no circumstance will you ever get me to believe that our founding fathers would of granted any kind of privledges to queers... after all it took an amendment to get the blacks the vote... seems like amendments are often used for the will of the people.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
http://www.nogaymarriage.com/
[ edited by Twelvepole on Feb 15, 2004 05:12 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on February 15, 2004 05:22:08 PM new
wonder how that makes them feel to know that they aren't as accepted as they thought they were?
Oh get real 12 - So many queer kids kill themselves from the scorn piled on them and any of them know they are in danger of being beaten and killed almost anywhere if they are not careful. They know the world is full of people like you lying in wait.
Under no circumstance will you ever get me to believe that our founding fathers would of granted any kind of privledges to queers... after all it took an amendment to get the blacks the vote... seems like amendments are often used for the will of the people.
Guess what? The founding fathers are not God. They would not have accepted many of the things we do. And if we went back to exactly what they set up and could accept you might find yourself disenfranchised if you were say not a land owner.
You never did answer me if you feel races should not marry.
That is an example the founding fathers would have prohibited.
I'll ask too if you are for the return of women to being virtual chattels and the return of black people to literal chattels.
Lets hear where you stand on something where you might not be the majority.
And I would have no trouble with people marrying with a contract for anything they could imagine.
Limited time - a year - 5 years - renewal options.
A line marriage where new members are added and the line never dies out.
Multiple partners wives or husbands.
And any relationship because reproduction is not always the purpose. Soon genetic engineering will allow that problem to be addressed anyway. You can have all your nasty genes cleaned up.
[ edited by gravid on Feb 15, 2004 05:29 PM ]
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plsmith
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posted on February 15, 2004 05:37:15 PM new
"You can have all your nasty genes cleaned up."
With that one statement, Gravid, you've made a powerful argument in favor of genetic cleansing...
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kiara
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posted on February 15, 2004 05:49:38 PM new
Kraft, Helen's answer was perfect.
Did you notice how quickly he responded to her? I've also noticed for a long time now that when Helen ignores him he moons her, trying to get more attention.
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 15, 2004 06:05:49 PM new
I notice that if one of US makes a comment, he uses the word "queer" in his follow-up post a lot more than usual. Reminds me of those Arian (sp) rejects, who would yell "white power" in the middle of a sentence for no reason.
P.S. I thought he put Helen on Ignore for being an anti-American communist??? Guess not.
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plsmith
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posted on February 15, 2004 06:27:32 PM new
I've always understood Helen to be an anti-fascist American...
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on February 15, 2004 06:39:21 PM new
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
Hey logansdad, when you agree that it's ok for your son to marry your daughter, then I will agree that gay marriage is ok.
------------------------------
Liberals are unAmerican
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Twelvepole
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posted on February 15, 2004 06:43:14 PM new
Hey logansdad, when you agree that it's ok for your son to marry your daughter, then I will agree that gay marriage is ok.
LOL
EAG That will probably be next... why not sex is not the issue right? Just love...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
http://www.nogaymarriage.com/
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plsmith
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posted on February 15, 2004 06:46:51 PM new
Darn it, EAG, there you go again with that skewed logic so endemic to an abbreviated understanding of the world. Stick to hating 'commies' -- you're way better at that...
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 15, 2004 08:08:28 PM new
Pat, it's only a matter of time before people, that are allowed to be homosexual, will want to include animals and kin into their list of acts. Get real!
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gravid
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posted on February 15, 2004 08:23:12 PM new
The animals have never been illegal in scandinavia and the ones that bothers are the vets.
Is it my imagination or do people get stranger about sex the colder the climate?
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kraftdinner
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posted on February 15, 2004 08:25:55 PM new
No kidding, Gravid. What's the deal?
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plsmith
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posted on February 15, 2004 08:26:41 PM new
I dunno, Gravid-o-mine, but I am fairly certain that I'm one of the few people who didn't get laid on Valentine's Day!
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logansdad
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posted on February 16, 2004 06:30:38 AM new
History has shown that eventually the minority groups will get equal treatment in this country - ie the equal rights for blacks and women. It will be only a matter of time before gays are allowed to marry. Whether it be tomorrow or 10 years from now, it will happen.
I hope there will be a day when the straight male is finally in the minority and is discriminated upon. Only then will he fully understand why people have fought to have their voice heard.
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
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logansdad
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posted on February 16, 2004 06:31:45 AM new
Isn't funny how Twelve poses a question and people respond with a logical response and then twelve says nothing in buttal. Could it be his views are wrong and has no defense?
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
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gravid
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posted on February 16, 2004 06:42:36 AM new
No - I suspect he will not directly answer because his honest view is so far from what we can accept he knows it is pointless to put it forth. If he puts forth a rant about the mud people polluting the Aryan race and stringing the queers up it just isn't going to fly in today's world.
Part of skill in propaganda is knowing how much can be absorbed and what will produce a back-lash.
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