posted on February 17, 2004 05:16:10 AM new
Got this from a friend. For what it's worth.
"Max,
I thought you would be interested in this email from Ed Morrison and his brother Mike. Ed worked at Triad in the early days and is ex-military. His brother Mike has some interesting first hand experiences in the same area and at the time John Kerry served in Nam.
Bill <><
Subject: Fwd: John Kerry
A VERY interesting article by my brother, Mike, who won a bronze star in Vietnam. I hope this one becomes public.
Bigger things. I've long thought that John Kerry's war record was phoney. We talked about it when you were here. It's mainly been instinct because, as you know, nobody who claims to have seen the action he does would so shamelessly flaunt it for political gain. So I spent a couple of hours on the internet yesterday, made a bunch of notes, and I'm sending them as an attachment. In addition, look at the website http://25thaviation.org/johnkerry/id15htm. Somebody went to a lot of trouble to chronicle Kerry's checkered career.
I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.
Here are my problems and suspicions:
(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.
(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.
(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin 50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.
Something is fishy.
Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since tha! t turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.
I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.
Someone who tries to second guess an action in battle should not be given much credit especially when his goal is to disparage a good man. And comparing his area of combat as less dangerous than another area in order to fault a soldier is simply preposterous.
I would like to hear Kerry's version. Snowyegret mentioned a book by Douglas Brinkley that covers Kerry's experiences on the Swift boats in Vietnam that I would like to read.
This is the action which earned Kerry the Bronze medal.
On March 13, 1969, Rassmann, a Green Beret, was traveling down the Bay Hap river in a boat behind Kerry’s when both were ambushed by exploding land mines and enemy fire coming from the shore. Kerry was hit in the arm, while a mine blew Rassmann’s boat out of the water. With enemy fire coming from both sides of the river and swift boats evacuating from the area, Kerry’s crew chose to turn their boat toward the ambush to save Rassmann.
“We were still under fire, and he was wounded at the time…,” recalled Rassmann. And with his boat’s gunners providing suppressing fire, Kerry extended his wounded arm into the water and the two lieutenants locked arms.
For Kerry’s bravery, Rassmann recommended that he be recognized, and Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star with Combat V. The citation that followed the award read as follows:
“The man was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard.
Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service.”
There are many Vet's out there that out-and-out think Kerry was a joke because he requested early release from Vietnam because of three very MINOR injuries. Your friends letter pales in comparison.
And many didn't like the pro-communist stand he took after he had served either. Here's a link to his 1971 speech.
U.S. Veteran Dispatch -- Ted Sampley -- On the campaign trail, Sen. John Forbes Kerry regularly mentions his Vietnam War combat experience, during which he received three Purple Hearts, the Silver Star and Bronze Star.
However, the Massachusetts Democrat doesn't like to talk much about how he received the awards or the time after he returned home when he was rubbing shoulders with Hanoi Jane Fonda as a much-celebrated organizer for Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), one of America's most radical pro-communist groups.
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 17, 2004 08:13 AM ]
posted on February 17, 2004 08:43:13 AM new
here helen - back at you.....your own words.
posted on February 14, 2004 12:03:29 PM
Linda, ....I'll be the judge of when and where I make my posts, linda. end quote/ And I'll add, I'll also post WHAT I want.
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getalife - maybe you'd like to post your own personal information, of your service to our country, for the world to see on the www.
"Disinformation" LOL
We'll all be hearing/reading a lot from those vietnam vets who served and didn't like how Kerry turned 'red' against his own country.
Kerry saw how the Gore campaign 2000 DIDN'T pick him as a running mate from the short list of contenders. There's a reason for that. And if you'll note, Kerry voted against the 1991 Iraq war. But then voted FOR the current one, but now says he didn't think the President would take us to war. right.....doublespeak.
posted on February 17, 2004 09:02:08 AM new
Here you go Linda_K:
From the years 1969 to 1973 I went to college at FSU, home of the Seminoles as I suspect you will understand that better. I demonstrated quite often against the Viet Nam War and often was around Viet Nam vets. Ask just about any Viet Vet if the war was a good thing and most of them will answer no and tell you if they knew what they know now they wouldn't have gone then. They were young kids mostly, doing what they thought was right. I was against the war and not the vets. I vehemently opposed the liar, Richard Nixon who was a Republican and had to leave office before he was kicked out. There is a parallel between him and Bush. In high school I opposed LBJ who was also a liar about Viet Nam.
I went to DC after Kent State to demonstrate against the war. I know many vets and none of them think Viet Nam was a good thing. If you will do your homework you will find that most Americans now think we had no business in Viet Nam. There is always pressure to walk in lockstep and think like everyone else. You seem to represent that attitude very well. One thing you don't seem interested in is facts and the truth. I think George Bush is a bully and a coward. He operates more secretively than anyother President in history.
[ edited by getalife on Feb 17, 2004 09:05 AM ]
posted on February 17, 2004 09:16:17 AM new
getalife - I don't believe there would ever be *anyone* who would say any war was good. But there are times when it is necessary. There are thousands upon thousands of vets who see Kerry much differently than you appear to.
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And helen....you taking to lying now too? You've called me a communist. Another untruth from you. I ASKED you if you were after you posted your Moscow Times article to support your side of the debate.
There's an enormous difference between asking someone if the are, rather than accusing one of being a communist. But then you're real good at 'twisting' history.
But I do think your posts, at that time, were very-anti American and I do think you made a great 'mouthpiece' for Saddam's side.
posted on February 17, 2004 09:47:07 AM newSomeone who tries to second guess an action in battle should not be given much credit especially when his goal is to disparage a good man. And comparing his area of combat as less dangerous than another area in order to fault a soldier is simply preposterous.
Once again I state for the book. Helen your lack of knowledge of military experience and tactics is superseded by your blind ignorance.. Go back to your favorite reading material, Hanoi Jane's newest book: "How to win over N Viet friends & influence American Vets".
P.S. by jumping off the boat, chasing & killing the "wounded" VC, Kerry did commit his own "War Atrocity".
posted on February 17, 2004 10:50:56 AM new
Kerry experienced his first intense combat action on Dec. 2, 1968. He was slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart.
In late January 1969, Kerry joined a five-man crew on swift boat No. 94 completing 18 missions over 48 days, almost all of them in the Mekong Delta.
Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a minor shrapnel wound in his left thigh on Feb. 20, 1969.
Kerry was given a Silver Star for an action on February 28, 1969:
When Kerry's Patrol Craft Fast 94 received a B-40 rocket shot from shore........
The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch......He also received a Purple Heart for a minor wound.
On March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, slighting wounding Kerry in the right arm. He was awarded his third Purple Heart.
When later asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty.
After his third Purple Heart Kerry requested to be sent home. Navy rules, he pointed out, allowed a thrice-wounded soldier to return to the United States immediately.
In April 1969, having engineered an early transfer out of the conflict because of his three minor wounds, John Kerry left his crew behind and returned home to a sweet assignment as an admiral's aide.
....Kerry - Realizing that running for public office in Eastern Massachusetts as a decorated Vietnam veteran was not at that time politically correct, Kerry moved hard to the left.
Washington Spring Offense.- April - May 1971. Kerry soon assumed a leadership position in the rabid pro-communist VVAW organization. Kerry, pictured right, directing VVAW's massive pro-Hanoi demonstration in Washington. - April 1971
As a national leader of VVAW, Kerry campaigned against the effort of the United States to contain the spread of Communism. He used the blood of servicemen still in the field for his own political advancement by claiming that their blood was being shed unnecessarily or in vain.
Under Kerry's leadership, VVAW members mocked the uniform of United States soldiers by wearing tattered fatigues marked with pro-communist graffiti. They dishonored America by marching in demonstrations under the flag of the Viet Cong enemy.
[b]Pictured right, April 1971, VVAW demonstration - Washington, D.C.
Kerry organized one of the most confrontational protests[/b] of the entire Vietnam War called Operation Dewey Canyon III. It began April 18, 1971, with nearly 1,000 Vietnam vets gathered on the Washington, D.C., Mall for what they called "a limited incursion into the country of Congress.
Pictured right, VVAW demonstrators armed with toy rifles, stage guerrilla theatre with mock "search and destroy" missions and massacres of civilians.
Sen. Ted Kennedy and protest leader Kerry discuss the demonstration.
On April 23, 1971, Kerry led members of VVAW in a protest during which they threw their medals and ribbons over a fence in front of the U.S. Capitol.
At a jammed Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on April 23, 1971, Kerry took his case to Congress.
Kerry was a supporter of the "People's Peace Treaty," a supposed "people's" declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany.
posted on February 17, 2004 11:04:49 AM newJohn Kerrys History Page
To Be Politically and Historically Correct and Not Offend
Kerry's War Record
While photo of candidate wGen. Giap: Kerry's Group Helped Hanoi Defeat U.S.
The North Vietnamese general in charge of the military campaign that finally drove the U.S. out of South Vietnam in 1975 credited a group led by Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry with helping him achieve victory.
In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S. -according to Fox News Channel war historian Oliver North. That's why, he predicted on Tuesday, the Vietnam War issue "is going to blow up in Kerry's face."
"People are going to remember Gen. Giap saying if it weren't for these guys [Kerry's group], we wouldn't have lost," North told radio host Sean Hannity.
"The Vietnam Veterans Against the War encouraged people to desert, encouraged people to mutiny - some used what they wrote to justify fragging officers," noted the former Marine lieutenant colonel, who earned two purple hearts in Vietnam. "John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands," North said.
Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry once denounced the United States of America as "the real criminal" in the Vietnam War.
In comments first reported by the New York Times 33 years ago, Kerry condemned the entire country as "criminal" during a 1971 demonstration on Wall Street, a few weeks after the trial of Lt. William Calley.
posted on February 17, 2004 11:06:32 AM new
linda,
I just returned...this is in response to your earlier post.
The truth is that you falsely accused me of linking to an article in the Moscow Times when in fact I purchased the article from LATIMES which had been archieved.
That accusation can be read in this thread...http://www.vendio.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=165779&id=165832
But just suppose that I had read and used an article from the Moscow Times. Would that justify your question..."Are you a member of the Communist Party, Helen".
posted on February 17, 2004 11:27:42 AM newThe Reverend wrote:
"Got this from a friend. For what it's worth."
As Getalife pointed out, it's not worth squat.
Linda, your excessive reliance upon bold print to bolster your opinions would be funny if it weren't so hard on my eyes. Really, can't you just state your case and let those of us who can read whimsically change font styles in our heads as we follow your reasoning down the rabbit hole?
posted on February 17, 2004 12:12:12 PM new
helen - We are rehashing this same old issue BECAUSE YOU keep saying what is NOT true. You accused me of doing something I did not do. Making it sound to others like I did something I did not do.
Until such time as you wish to word your post with the CORRECT version of what was really said, I will continue to defend myself from your false accusations.
By asking that accusatory question, you cast an aspersion on me that was unfounded and wrong. It would probably be correct to use the word suggested rather than called. But I want you to understand how such a question can be as damaging as a statement.
Take a hypothetical situation so that you may understand if you were asked such an accusatory question. Say that you have five women friends, one of which is a lesbian. How would you feel if I said to you in a room full of people, I see that you have been associating with a lesbian. Are you a Lesbian, Linda? Can you imagine how you would feel? Whether you were or not, it would create suspicion among the people in the room...a suspicion that is hard to disprove.
The question wouldn't bother me but knowing your opinions on homosexuality I believe that you would be offended. So, if you consider that scenario you should understand how a question can be just as damaging as an outright statement.
I will not expect you to prove anything linda. I've done it over and over with no success. But I will always point out when I believe something is false and should be verified.
posted on February 17, 2004 01:26:31 PM new
Oh, darn you, Helen! Now she'll bold twice as much as before and probably italicize every other word!!!
Metoposcopy & George W Bush
Metoposcopy is the interpretation of facial wrinkles, especially those on the forehead, to determine the character of a person.
Having three curved furrows on the forehead proves one is a dissolute simpleton.
Long, straight furrows indicate nobility of character.
Just to illustrate further the power of an accusatory question, this comment was later made by a well respected member of Vendio
"Again, there's no mocking in this thread. It's rather like your recently calling Helen a communist because she wouldn't agree with your political views. I think Bush's failing political support has you distraught. But he may very well recapture it. I of course hope that he doesn't. But who knows."
posted on February 17, 2004 01:52:42 PM new
Aw, phooey, Helen. I just scanned the first page of that link you posted and was reminded how much I miss Antiquary.
How long since he's been around?
And, I'd bet LindaKKK is a regular push-poll participant...
posted on February 17, 2004 02:00:21 PM new
I'm not going to go through this again. This is how it started out:
Linda_K posted on January 25, 2003 01:03:24 AM edit
I, for one, would appreciate seeing a link to the LA Times whole article. Especially since I searched for it to read it myself. It's been archived. Did you purchase it Helen, or are you just copying from Chris Floyd's article that he wrote for the MOSCOW TIMES??? [Your first link on the Pentagon story]. The one where Chris Floyd starts with a warning where he says: when he warns that there will be more terrorist attacks against the American people and civilization at large...and then Floyd takes that statement to a totally different level which comes to the conclusion that what was MEANT was they're going to CAUSE these attacks themselves.
I don't read the Moscow Times very often. LOL But I'm not sure if you're quoting the LA Times, The Opinion or The Moscow News..or any of them reporting what the other has printed.
_________________
then I [b]ASKED[/i] you:
<<<Linda_K's quote posted on January 25, 2003 01:03:24 AM >>>
The burning of our flag means nothing and quoting from a columnist who writes for the Moscow News.....what is that? Are you a member of the Communist Party Helen? Or whatever new name they're going under now.
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See the question "?" marks? That means a question has been asked.
If you would just be honest enough to say "Linda asked me if I was a member of the communist party" we wouldn't have to go through this every few months.
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Feb 17, 2004 02:08 PM ]
He was posting at OTWA for awhile. I got a Christmas card and haven't seen him since. Wish he would return too. Maybe if he sees you here he will return!
And Snowy and Rawbunzel!
Helen
ed to add Snowy and Rawbunzel
[ edited by Helenjw on Feb 17, 2004 02:06 PM ]
posted on February 17, 2004 02:25:48 PM new
Hah! I can promise you the lure of Snowy and Robin would far outweigh his desire to see me!
So, Linda, were you ever (or are you still) a member of a white-spremacist organization in the USA as has been speculated by several posters (including myself) who sometimes address you as 'LindaKKK' ?
