posted on February 22, 2004 07:43:06 AM newLogansdad are you a queer?
Here's a question for you Twelve:
Are you a bigot?
If you can't put one and one together, then you are a lot dunber that I thought.
So what if I am. What are you going to do, stop using vendio or ebay?
Put me on ignore, I don't care. Go continue to live in your "Leave it to Beaver" world, where your views are all right and everyone else is living in sin.
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
posted on February 22, 2004 08:15:06 AM new
logan,
u keep asking if 3000 gay marriages make any difference in our life??
NOT YET.
if you take cipro,you dont see the result immediately.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on February 22, 2004 08:29:27 AM new
Stopwhining:
logan,
u keep asking if 3000 gay marriages make any difference in our life??
NOT YET.
if you take cipro,you dont see the result immediately.
What is the result that your are looking for?
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
posted on February 22, 2004 09:03:23 AM new
if i take cipro,i expect to start seeing results 3-4 days.
if 3000 gay men get married in san fran or ca ,and more get married in coming years,you will notice - ads which promote goods/services targeted at married gay couples.
social customs,laws ,socio economic changes.
men tend to make more money than women,2 men household may have more disposable income than man/woman household.
men are better team players and organiser.
i can see why some women will feel threatened-i think they will be afraid they will be pushed down the socio economic ladder .
a bisexual man or a closet homosexual man no longer feel they have to marry a woman because society expects them to disguise their homosexuality.
lets say there are really more closet gay out there and now they dont have to hide in closets anymore,they will be the one who live in suburban houses with 2 cars,they will pay for surrogate mothers,they will hire nanies to raise them while both pursue career,they will have maids to clean the house,there will be a growing class of women working as maids,washing windows,mowing lawn,nannies,surrogate mothers,delivering chinese carryout/pizza.
i dunno,may be we will even see more males than females in this society.when a gay couple want to start a family,they would prefer sons than daughters.
somewhere in the back of my mind,i think this kind of arrangement had been practiced in ancient times.
also please address this question-
are gay couples going to play safe and practice safe sex after marriage??
what is the status of aids now??
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on February 22, 2004 09:45:21 AM new
Stop:
So it a nutshell your response is all based upon the "slippery slope defense". Again it is all comes down to the fear of the known.
if i take cipro,i expect to start seeing results 3-4 days.
if 3000 gay men get married in san fran or ca ,and more get married in coming years,you will notice - ads which promote goods/services targeted at married gay couples.
I suppose it is ok for ads now adays to promote goods and services for straight couples? What should gay people be subjected to those ads? What if the ads are promoted toward gays by straight owned organizations? I suppose it is ok then that the gay couples would be giving their money to a straight owned organization.
social customs,laws ,socio economic changes.
men tend to make more money than women,2 men household may have more disposable income than man/woman household.
men are better team players and organiser.
i can see why some women will feel threatened-i think they will be afraid they will be pushed down the socio economic ladder .
Is this what women thought be for the women's right movement? Isn't the straight male still doing this today? Women are still not treated in equal in the work place. Do believe gays should be treated as second class citizens?
a bisexual man or a closet homosexual man no longer feel they have to marry a woman because society expects them to disguise their homosexuality.
lets say there are really more closet gay out there and now they dont have to hide in closets anymore,they will be the one who live in suburban houses with 2 cars,they will pay for surrogate mothers,they will hire nanies to raise them while both pursue career,they will have maids to clean the house,there will be a growing class of women working as maids,washing windows,mowing lawn,nannies,surrogate mothers,delivering chinese carryout/pizza.
i dunno,may be we will even see more males than females in this society.
How do you know this is not happening now with straight couples? Exalain why straight couples are hiring nanies to take care of their kids while both parents go off to work?
when a gay couple want to start a family,they would prefer sons than daughters.
What makes you think that? What is the reasoning behind that? How do you know straight couples aren't trying to have a boy over a girl or vice-versa?
somewhere in the back of my mind,i think this kind of arrangement had been practiced in ancient times.
And if was so what. There are a lot of things that were practiced in ancient times that are still happening or changed over the years in one society or another
also please address this question-
are gay couples going to play safe and practice safe sex after marriage??
what is the status of aids now??
Again how many married straight couples are practicing safe sex? Explain to me why so many married straight men go looking for nookie with other men while their wives are out shopping? Expalin to me how senior citizens are getting HIV? Don't be so ignorant to tell me that only gay people get HIV?
I found the following information for you regarding figures
Atlanta Journal-Constitution (02.20.04) - Friday, February 20, 2004
A CDC analysis of new HIV infections reported between 1999- 2002 in 29 states found that more than one-third (35 percent) resulted from heterosexual sex. And of the new heterosexually acquired HIV cases, 64 percent were women, and 74 percent were black.
Data from the 29 states are considered reliable since they for years have tracked HIV/AIDS cases by patients' names, CDC's preferred method. The states account for two-fifths of US AIDS cases. The sample did not include states with the highest HIV/AIDS rates, such as New York and California.
The study, published Friday in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, included both asymptomatic HIV patients and AIDS patients. During the study period, there were 101,877 new HIV diagnoses. Almost 7,400 of the infections - one-fifth of those acquired heterosexually - were discovered at the time of AIDS diagnosis, suggesting that those who were infected did not know they had been exposed.
The data indicate that, in the states tracked, HIV is increasingly a disease of minorities and women. Of all new infections, 55 percent were among blacks, compared to 31 percent among whites and 11 percent among Hispanics. Twenty-nine percent of new infections were among women.
Among female HIV cases, 70 percent of whites, 64 percent of blacks and 56 percent of Hispanics were infected through heterosexual contact. Among women ages 13-19, 89 percent acquired the infection through heterosexual contact.
The findings did not surprise Gina Wingwood, a co-director of the Emory University Center for AIDS Research. They indicate that "prevention messages and educational programs are not being disseminated, or are not being understood, or are not effective," said Wingwood. "Males have more power and direct control over condom use because they are the ones who wear condoms. Females have to negotiate," said Wingwood. And that is hard for a young woman to do with an older partner, she said.
For more information, see the full report, "Heterosexual Transmission of HIV - 29 States, 1999-2002," in Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (2004;53(06):125-129).
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
[ edited by logansdad on Feb 22, 2004 09:46 AM ]
[ edited by logansdad on Feb 22, 2004 09:49 AM ]
1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural.
2. Heterosexual marriages are valid becasue they produce children. Infertile couples and old people can't legally get married because the world needs more children.
3. Obviously, gay parents will raise gay children, because straight parents only raise straight children.
4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if Gay marriage is allowed, since Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.
5. Heterosexual marriage has been around a long time and it hasn't changed at all: women are property, Blacks can't marry Whites, and divorce is illegal.
6. Gay marriage should be decided by people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of the minorities.
7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire counrty. That's why we have only one religion in America.
8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.
10. Children can never suceed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.
11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to things like cars or longer lifespans.
12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "seperate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Seperate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as seperate marriages for gays and lesbians will.
posted on February 22, 2004 10:25:15 AM new
profe51, I laughed at that one too.
logansdad, I will answer your question about how my life has changed since gay couples have been married.
It hasn't changed my life at all except to say that I perhaps understand the issues better now.
There was a recent discussion on "gay cruises" and I have mixed feelings about gays doing exclusive "only gay" events.
I don't agree with all the sexual overtones shown in gay parades. Will this display be normal on the streets soon, without it being in a parade?
In other words, some things are okay in my mind but I still feel uneasy about other things and perhaps wonder how far things will be allowed to go, now that marriages are allowed.
posted on February 22, 2004 10:34:36 AM new
logansdad,
i do not have a computer model i can plug in data and extrapolate what the future will look like.
i am just giving some of my own thoughts of what may happen-
ad for affluent gay couples,nothing wrong with that,you identify a need among a certain group and target them for their business,just like certain ads target latinos.
i am not stating this is bad or good,i am just describing a trend we shall see in the future.
men do prefer sons over daughters,most developed countries couples do not have many children,so if they have to plan,their preference will influence what sex their children would be.
as for aids ,i dont beleive we have a good cure for that virus,or is there more than one virus now??
in africa,there are just as many women who have aids as men,most prostitues in kenesha ,nigeria are aids positive,in this country,latino women are becoming infected .
but lets talk graphic,
with marriage,comes sex between the couple and lets say anal sex is the way for a gay couple,children of gay or heterosexual couple will learn there are 2 ways to have sex with your spouse-anal and vaginal.
how can we say anal sex is no good,as it has been sanctioned by this sacred institution called marriage??
children of gay parents do not necessarily turn gay,but if they are raised in a gay environment,they may think this is the right thing to do as they look at their own parents and the friends who drop by.
since men dont have vagina,so the way to sexual intercourse,would be anal??
and we know from aids why gay men become so easily affected because the rectum is not constructed for sexual intercourse,thinner membrane and not to mention what kind of bacteria is harbored among the feces.
so now we will see a brave new world of children growing up accepting both forms of sexual intercourse,vaginal if you want to directly make a woman conceive,or anal if you just want to satisfy yourself or your partner.
dont take me wrong,sodomy and anal intercourse is as old as prostitution,why do you think no society openly endorse such behavior??modesty>> i doubt it.
look at incest,how do people find out incest is bad for the society as a whole,may be once upon a time,it was practiced and they saw the outcome from the children born ,those societies which did not act to condemn such practice were no longer around.
read the bible,there are a lot of interesting dos and donts,it gives you some idea what kind of environment they live in-desert area with lack of water,cities with poor sewage system,intercourse with same sex,opposite sex,animals.where do they dump their garbage>into the nile,euphrates,yellow and ganges river.
dont eat this and dont eat that,the orthodox jews still follow the kosher rules,why??
do you know in the middleeast they are not supposed to eat anything from the river which has no scales,fouls need to be examined to have 5 claws on each leg,unleaven bread,thats a good one(no yeast).
muslims dont eat pork,why ??
if something is bad for the society as a whole,or it begins to threaten the survival of a society,then the govt will step in and prohibit that something or some behavior??
only time will tell.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on February 22, 2004 10:58:35 AM new
That's funny stuff, Kiara!
Logansdad, I applaud your effort to educate but as you can see, some here aren't even in the ballgame. Some of the posts are so ignorant - I hope you are able to laugh at their expense like we all do.
(sp)
[ edited by kraftdinner on Feb 22, 2004 11:33 AM ]
posted on February 22, 2004 11:11:32 AM new
stopwhining - Much of what you have stated can be seen as already having occurred in other countries where same-sex marriage have exsisted for a number of years.
Here's the link, of proof, I provided in the other 8 page thread on this same issue. It supports a lot of what you've suggested might happen here.
A majority of children in Sweden and Norway are born out of wedlock. Sixty percent of first-born children in Denmark have unmarried parents.
Not coincidentally, these countries have had something close to full gay marriage for a decade or more. Same-sex marriage has locked in and reinforced an existing Scandinavian trend toward the separation of marriage and parenthood.
The Nordic family pattern--including gay marriage--is spreading across Europe. And by looking closely at it we can answer the key empirical question underlying the gay marriage debate. Will same-sex marriage undermine the institution of marriage?
It already has.
More precisely, it has further undermined the institution. The separation of marriage from parenthood was increasing; gay marriage has widened the separation.
Out-of-wedlock birthrates were rising; gay marriage has added to the factors pushing those rates higher.
Instead of encouraging a society-wide return to marriage, Scandinavian gay marriage has driven home the message that marriage itself is outdated, and that virtually any family form, including out-of-wedlock parenthood, is acceptable.
posted on February 22, 2004 11:24:02 AM new
well,things are not going to get better with these european countries-with india and china coming to the global commerce scene.
suicide rate is highest in scandinavian countries,they blame it on long cold winter.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on February 22, 2004 11:39:16 AM new
Kiara:
logansdad, I will answer your question about how my life has changed since gay couples have been married.
It hasn't changed my life at all except to say that I perhaps understand the issues better now.
Thanks for being honest. This debate has given me some insight as well. I can see why the conservatives are worried. But we all worry about the future and what may or may not happen. I am sure some of the same worries existed back in the late 1770's, during the time of the civil war, during the 1930's, and during the civil right movement. Only time will tell what happens to society.
In my opinion, if more tolerance is practiced, people will be better educated and be able to make their own views about what is right and wrong.
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge
posted on February 22, 2004 12:14:58 PM new
Stop,
Yes we don't have the crystal ball that will predict the future, but every already is asuming society will go to hell. Hasn't society already started to decline without gay marriages, so would you say it is due to the decline of straight marriages.
if something is bad for the society as a whole,or it begins to threaten the survival of a society,then the govt will step in and prohibit that something or some behavior??
Yes they did that with alcohol. The government created an amendment outlawing alchol production. Another amendment needed to be passed repealing that earlier amendment. Was the government correct this time?
Laws can be passed outlawing specific behaviors, but whether it is legal or illegal people will still do it.
Linda,
While your link seems to advocate gay marriages as the reason for undermining marriagesin Denmark, what is your argument then for the decline in marriage and increased divorce rates here in the US where gay marriages aren't legal.
posted on February 22, 2004 02:02:58 PM new
are you saying straight marriages are not working,so lets try gay marriage?or at least give it a shot>
i just kill my neighbor,but look at you,you shot the president.
people will do it (alcohol,drug,spouse abuse) no matter what govt said or ban.thats the reason govt ban it because people are doing it.
it is part of the great social evolution-premarital sex,live together without marriage,divorce,single parent.
but i said at the core of the matter is anal sex,is this something we should all accept as normal sexual behavior??
a gay couple will conduct anal sex and then find a subrogate mother to have their kids.
think of it,it is something we will have to accept,or our kids will have to accept and someday be part of it.
i think the kids are kind of screwed up already,divorced parents,bouncing from one parent to another,and what next ??
my mother is really a man and then my dad remarries and this time he marries a woman,so my stepmother is a woman.
oh,sometimes the surrogate mother drop in for a visit,thats my mother in a way too.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on February 22, 2004 02:18:44 PM new
"but i said at the core of the matter is anal sex,is this something we should all accept as normal sexual behavior?? "
You live under a rock, Stopwhining, if you think heterosexual married couples don't engage in anal sex. Especially after the wife has had a few kids...
posted on February 22, 2004 03:09:50 PM newCrawling back under my rock.......
That is no surprise kiara... I have thought as much for a long time now
Logansdad, it is a pity that queers are allowed to raise children, but then again, we can only hope that by the time they are old enough to make decisions, they will be wise enough to know that being queer is WRONG...
It also explains your warped slant on this subject...
In this case I enjoy the word BIGOT... because I hate queers...
If only 3000 queers would drop dead tomorrow, now that wouldn't affect me one way or the other
posted on February 22, 2004 04:16:14 PM new
"Well, dam. I didn't know that."
No kidding, Helen? (Not that I'd expect you to be the first married heterosexual at Vendio to spill such beans. Why, it's a downright 'immoral' practice, LOL! )
I'm not kidding though, folks, ALL the straight married couples I know have engaged in anal intercourse, and if that's the part of homosexuality you find so offensive, you'd better get another argument...
posted on February 22, 2004 04:30:30 PM newNo kidding, Helen? (Not that I'd expect you to be the first married heterosexual at Vendio to spill such beans. Why, it's a downright 'immoral' practice, LOL!
I've never spoken of or consider such sexual practices as moral or immoral, Pat.
It's just something that I've never experienced...so your comment was surprising to me....no reason to put me under a rock.
Helen
ed. to add consider.
[ edited by Helenjw on Feb 22, 2004 04:33 PM ]
posted on February 22, 2004 06:24:40 PM new
i hate to ask,do these couples doing anal sex to prevent having more kids or ???
heterosexual couples do all kinds of things,some kinky some straight.
but for man,this is pretty much the only way which comes close to vaginal sex.
but then i have been under the rock for too long,please enlighten me.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
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