I agree with you. I really hate being taken advantage of. All of the bad things that PayPal has done to me has only put an additional $2900.00 in my bank account for free. The nerve of these people.
posted on June 12, 2000 11:24:23 PM new
noshill: LOL! The constant p&m of the bashers is getting very old! I'm very happy for your success & I hope to duplicate it! So far, x.com is THE BEST CHECKING ACCOUNT I'VE EVER HAD & PayPal rules greedBay!
[ edited by tomwiii on Jun 12, 2000 11:24 PM ]
posted on June 12, 2000 11:24:57 PM new
I would prefer they had their own board, but, why not post the answers where the questions are. It would be good for eBays customers (Us sellers who use them, as it would encourage bids without going else where for answers) and inturn generate more fees for eBay.
I can't believe eBay whould prefer their customer's goto a third party site for answers, where they are exposed to ads for eBays direct competitors.... Which also takes them further away from our auctions.
posted on June 13, 2000 04:55:21 AM new
I remember the times that radh talked about. When Paypal started up and I got bombarded with e-mails asking me to join so that these people could get their free $10. Bidders whom I haven't had any contact with in a year were emailing me saying how we once did business and why not sign up and get free $10 etc....I remember seeing MANY auctions listed where the seller--and I knew of several sellers who had a separate ID just for this---would ONLY accept new sign-up Paypal payments. I know sellers do that now, but this was when Paypal had just started and they wanted the $10. It was out of control!
I waited until things calmed down, which was not to soon after it was changed from $10 to $5, then I joined Paypal. It was on my own terms. Now I can say that I LOVE using the service. It has made things easy for me not only as a seller but as a bidder. And to be honest, as a bidder, I won't even bid on an auction if the seller doesnt have Paypal as an option. But that is just me.
I agree everyone has their own right to their opinion and if they want to use the service or not. Not everything about Paypal makes me happy but not everything about eBay does either or AW for that matter (I still can't find how to get to image hosting & counters since they changed the site around). I also agree that Paypal needs to put up a message board on their own site. Then when folks have questions or complaints, they have a board right there on the site to go too.
posted on June 13, 2000 06:21:17 AM new
My local Wal-Mart has a branch of Bank A located right in front of the store. My sister-in-law works for Bank B. She was shopping at Wal-Mart the other day, (my brother says everyday) when another Wal-Mart customer recogonized her and asked her a question about a particular service of Bank B, did the local Store Manager throw them both out of the store because she competes with Bank A? Not on your life.
I read where someone else mentioned Billpoint being eBays Bread-and-Butter. Hmmm, all this time I thought eBay was in the on-line auction business.
kiki2, Don't worry about figuring about how to do pictures. Didn't you see where eBay has entered into an agreement with an ISP to host pictures for you. I'm sure once they get PayPal under control, they will insist you use their picture host (for only a small fee) and probably forbid any discussion of others....
[ edited by coonr on Jun 13, 2000 06:24 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2000 06:41:40 AM new
I use PayPal to receive payments. Like it. Like it when my customers use it.
But with radh, their assault-weapon-style marketing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. "Viral marketing", indeed. We've seen what some people will do to get five free bucks...and it ain't pretty.
(Hey radh: Remember the scene in _The Magic Christian_ where there is constructed a huge vat of blood, offal and other unspeakable liquids and the protagonist proceeds to dump barrels of money into the vat?)
One last thing...
Considering how highly emotional and polarized these threads tend to get (and when I say "these threads" I mean those about any third-party service), it would not surprise me in the slightest if the various third-party services have hired posters to keep stirring the offal. I mean, some of the passionate testimonials are just TOO glowing, you know what I mean?
posted on June 13, 2000 08:36:01 AM new
pbreit
Sorry, but my analogy is correct and you are in error. With the department store, their merchandise is the product. With e-bay the product is their site. The users of the space pay them.
That is the source of their income. Be it auction sellers, banners, credit card processors, or whatever. What ebay sells is exposure.
If you listen very carefully, you will hear e-bay's cash register bell ring every time someone uses billpoint.
Paypal, silence! Why on earth would they allow them to promote themselves on the e-bay site without paying for it, in direct competition with someone who does. It's bad business.( insert my analogy here)
When paypal finally charges a percentage for all transactions( And they will. The business account is just the first step),and makes a deal with e-bay, giving them their cut, this will all go away. It is going to happen. The only question is when.
posted on June 13, 2000 08:48:30 AM new
bettylou: you're RIGHT! You found me out! PayPal just sent me some Laurel&Hardy S&P shakers and a penis pump!Actually I APPRECIATE those few sites on the internet THAT ACTUALLY WORK RIGHT! Such as AW & PayPal & Outpost & Computers4Sure! And I hate sites THAT DON'T WORK: such as Andale & AR & Shrillpoint!If it were't for AW I would not be able to do auctions.PERIOD! And PayPal allows me to accept cc customers without LOSING ALL THE PROFIT TO GREEDBAY!
So...PayPal RULES--Shrillpoint SUCKS!
posted on June 13, 2000 08:52:03 AM new
I happen to LOVE PayPal. The service is free, easy and my customers love it. I use it AS MUCH AS I CAN. PayPal seems to have increased margins and sales not to mention simplify the auction process for both sellers and bidders alike.
I, however, can't stand whiners...
Those who DON'T like PayPal should stick to what they DO like and stop the bashing. Sheesh!
[ edited by daneta99 on Jun 13, 2000 08:53 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2000 09:12:20 AM new
Everyone I know who uses PayPal tells me the same thing: "I actively look for eBay sellers who accept PayPal payments. I skip over those who don't."
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would prefer to use Billpoint, especially as a seller.... unless it's for an international bidder.... Why pay more fees? I've yet to read any adequate explanation from a seller as to why they would offer Billpoint but not PayPal. Do you really enjoy giving more money to eBay? Do you always do everything eBay tells you to do?
Sellers should think about the numbers of bids they are missing out on because they limit payment options.
posted on June 13, 2000 12:28:46 PM new
In another thread I posted that when I checked this morning, there were 5305 eBay auctions in which the phrase, "No PayPal" is found.
I find PayPal's marketing scheme to be personally distasteful; however, I never opened any messagethreads about PayPal here at AW until I got curious as to why the one by Barry, "Help-I've been PayPal'd" kept on active, getting more & more reponses.
It was generally a very positive thread.
I opened up this thread, because I presumed that another illegitimate NARU by eBay had occured.
Instead, I perceive more viral marketing attempts, and then I see eBay equated with the camps, and ya know what?
I would not accept money from PayPal even were I penniless and actually starving --- that is how disgusting their marketing scheme is to this netizen.
No kidding.
Whereas yesterday morning, I simply knew that I found them distasteful, by late afternoon when I opened this messagethread to lend support to what I presumed to be another victim of eBay's fequently unjust NARU policies, now I know that under NO circumstances will I ever accept any PayPal monies -- I would starve to death first, this is how anathemic to me that they and what I perceive to be their cyber-hucksterism is.
This post of Paul's and the need of an online bank to use eBay bandwidth on eBay boards cuz they ain't got the funds for legitimate customer service or their own board, is to me, such an extreme example of a Net-Biz presuming all of the cyberspace contains only naive gullible ignorant people who can't see through their blatant egregiously aggressively spam-filled viral marketing...
posted on June 13, 2000 01:31:47 PM newPayPalPaul complains:
1. they removed my threads saying they were advertising for PayPal.
I note that AW's Community Guidelines also prohibit this behavior:
"Advertise products or services in the Message Center or to our members. This includes (but is not limited to) auction sites, software, and auction related discussion forums. Company agents may answer questions about services in a strictly factual and non-promotional manner if asked; however, AuctionWatch.com reserves the right to end a discussion if we believe that your Company or any of its agents initiated or are perpetuating the discussion, or are promoting your services."
2. they suspended the paypalauctionteam account that I was using because the user information was not correct. Technically they were right
Then there's really no surprise here, is there? My account would have been suspended if my user information was incorrect, it sounds like you're expecting preferential treatment. Why?
I was responding to the questions of PayPal customers who were concerned about our recent changes. eBay thought that to be a bad use of their "Community."
So the questions had nothing to do with eBay directly. Why are you expecting a 3rd Party company to provide server space to act as your company's infoboard?
Thank you, AuctionWatch, for allowing us at PayPal a place to interact with the friendly people who visit your site.
Oh, I see, because AW does. But then, PayPal is an AW partner. I'll ask the question differently: Why do you think you have a right to expect an unafiliated company to provide server space to act as your company's infoboard?
posted on June 13, 2000 01:35:45 PM new
When one doesn't run any auctions and just posts on message boards, there doesn't seem to be a need for PayPal or any other payment service.
posted on June 13, 2000 02:55:30 PM new
Well I hope those of you who think eBay should not let any form of competitor on their site, do NOT sell Books, Cd's DVD's or Videos.
Seems like they just announced the purchase of half.com in order to get into this area and have fixed price sales....
posted on June 13, 2000 03:02:21 PM new
In all these many months since PayPal started up, I have never once received an email ad from either PayPal or a PayPal member.
Those of you who are so virulently angry with PayPal must've been inundated with them. Otherwise I don't understand your hostility.
I suspect you are a very very very small minority.
Plus, 1.9% for PayPal's business accounts, versus Billpoint's 3.5% plus 35 cents.
Please do the math and then justify using Billpoint over PayPal.
you are missing the point. Yes paypal is great, and saves you money. I think most can agree with that. I dont think any business person out there would want a competitor in it's store answering it's customers questions, why should eBay be any different? It's common sense.
What we are not agreeing with is that we should feel sorry for eBay kicking them off their message boards.
Secondly I'm not sure why you call them Greedbay or whatever it was. There are plenty of free sites you can list on, if you think they are greedy then put your money where your mouth is and list on those sites. If everyone did that rather than just complain about how eBay charges too much then guess what? Probably half of eBays business would shift over to Yahoo or some other site.
It's for that reason that I make it a point
to list 30% or more of my items on sites other than eBay. The way I figure it will help me in the end.
posted on June 13, 2000 06:17:48 PM newfrankoSome competitors are gracious about competition--see AW's tolerance of Rover answering questions about their free listing days! Yes I know eBay is a BUSINESS! But do they have to be so NASTY about EVERYTHING! Do they have TO LIE about PayPal in their Shrillpoint ads? Do they have to CHARGE YA BOTH COMING & GOING?! So, like you, I'm now 50% at Yahoo and loving it! HOPEFULLY EVERYONE WILL MOVE TO YAHOO & GREEDBAY & SHRILLPOINT WILL GET THE MESSAGE!
posted on June 13, 2000 06:30:59 PM new
foota, you're dead wrong! all a store like macy's does is sell products for other parties! it's identical to ebay!
if you had a clue about retail, you would know that "house brand" credit cards are extremely profitable and compete directly against general purpose visa and mc. in both situations, the store (macy's or ebay) generates revenues on the sale regardless of what payment method is used. in both cases, the store makes more money if the buyer uses the store's own form of payment.
many department stores will even allow american express to promote its card right along side their own credit card!!!
posted on June 13, 2000 07:42:13 PM new
frank0122, But they were answering questions by eBays customers, therefore, benefiting eBay as well. I still think they should be allowed to be there....
pbreit, I like your analogy and FWIW I think it fits the situation perfectly....
eBay is suppose to be an on-line Auction site, not a financial services site.... If they want to be financial services, why not open their product to out of house transactions? If PayPal were hosting Auctions, now that would be competing with eBay.
posted on June 13, 2000 08:13:11 PM new
Sellers, those of you who do not accept Paypal, this will probably hurt your feelings, but if you do not accept my payment choice, I will not bid in your auctions, it is not personal, it is MY choice and MY Funds not yours, if you will not offer want I want then the 50 sellers who sell the exact same thing as you will, again this is not personal, it is my choice not to run to the bank to get a money order
when I already have the funds in my Paypal account
As a seller, we will offer what ever the customer wants, I take several different forms of payment, but the bottom line is it is the bidders choice not mine of the type of payment taht they would like to use from the different ones we use
Something else that I have noticed is that the $5 Referral Bonus we are receiving has jumped in the last month May we saw just over 50 new Paypal folks registared using us as the referring seller, June has already passed that up, is any one else running into this, seems kind of odd since auction sales are down for the month compared to May
posted on June 13, 2000 08:33:22 PM new
Man talk about neeing to get a grip. If you see services that you don't like just ignore them. I am not fond of billpoint but I don't think I'll shut down operations because I am tired of seeing there adds and having there unwannted services shoved down my throat. Seems a little drastic to me. I do this full time and as any business goes you see advertisments and such from all kinds of solicitors. it goes with being part of a BUSINESS. Use the ones you want igonre the ones don't and get a life in the meantime
I still disagree. The last I heard Macy's was not a consignment shop. They purchase and sell a product line.
E-bay does not sell a product for other parties either. They sell their own product. Space!
While it may be true that a store like Macy's makes money on in house credit, for many businesses it is a loss and a headache. But that isn't really the point.
The point you seem to miss is that to e-bay, this is not about it being a credit card company. It could just as easily be someone selling rubber ducks. This is about someone not paying for the product they are using. While Macy's generates profit from the sale of hard merchandise, E-bay sells space. That is their only product. Period.
While Macy's can survive with a variety of competing credit cards because, as you said, they sell the merchandise anyway, e-bay would certainly not survive If they gave away their only product, space. That IS their merchandise.
E-bay would no doubt hoist Paypal banners and create special listings IF Paypal bought the space( paid for the merchandise they took), or shared the profit.
To make your analogy correct, Macy's on a regular basis would have to either pass out a percentage of their inventory free, or encourage and allow shoplifting.
Try it this way. You own a billboard.It is your sole source of income.A credit card company rents space on it.Tomorrow you wake up to find a second credit card company has added their ad to your bill board. They aren't paying for it.They just took it.They are now cutting into the first companies business. You don't really care too much about that because you make your money on the rental, but you are now in danger of losing the revenue from the one that is paying for the space.
Now according to your thinking this would be perfectly all right with you, because these two credit companies should co-exist.
It doesn't matter that the second company has caused you loss of income, not only from them, but also from the first company.
Would you mind if I added a plug (just a little one) to all your auctions, promoting my merchandise.I'm sure we can co-exist.I will be able to sell a little cheaper than you because I won't have to pay for the e-bay space, you will.
But hey, you don't mind do you?
P.S.
Actually, I do have a clue as to how retail works. We have been in business for thirty years, and have done pretty well.
Buying and selling is what we do. It is all we do. We are very much aware of how retail, credit cards, and financing in general,work.
the one and only toomanycomics on AW!
