posted on March 20, 2004 08:35:49 PM newThere are two opposing views here but it seems that some can't respect another point of view if they don't agree with it so they have to continually lambaste the opposition with personal attacks instead of discussing the issue.
LOL surely you jest once again... No one on the left has brought forth anything except President Bush bashing... the left refuses to see the positives that are taking place in Iraq... Helen has shown many times she is anti-american... that is no secret.
Why she still chooses to live here is beyond me... if it is so bad here... and her aparent love of socialist ideals... the socialist north would seem to definately suit her better... but then I guess her windmills are here....
Those soldiers died an honorable death... they were doing something noble and right... it is part of war the people die... so far no one has figured a way around that... we have the best trained military in the world... if not think of all the others that would be dead.
The UN brought this about, President Bush just enforced a UN resolution, that seems to keep being overlooked by the left.
We finally have a President that will take action... that scares the peaceniks and for myself that is GREAT!
posted on March 20, 2004 08:43:34 PM new
When I said there are two opposing views here I meant that there is one side that agrees with the war in Iraq and one side that doesn't.
posted on March 20, 2004 11:42:17 PM new
It's not that simple.
Helen likes to harangue with the latest theories of the current comments on moveon.org. She comes out with statements that charitably must be made up, ie: Iraqis hate us and say they were better off before. Linda of course, investigates and comes up with the poll. So a poll vs left wing clairvoyance seems more worthy of notice.
Liberals in general hate polls because the scientific pollsters (ie: Gallup, etc) can predict results within tenths of a percent and these results often run contrary to the "theories" of liberal patron saints.
There is also the endless flip flops. Remember not too long ago, weeks of Helen carrying on about the war being just about oil and we were trying to steal oil from the poor Iraqis so their babies would die. Now, we get the endless complaints about the billions going INTO Iraq.
The "poor invasion planning" (whose theory is this. I can't find the ventriloquist for this one.)
On and on. KRS used to post endless links from "noted experts". I'd look at the links and research the people involved. They'd always turn out to be "professional protesters". President of savethepeoplefromthewarmongers.com, treasurer of the "people's action committee". In short, a guy sitting in a room with a mimeo machine.
The President doesn't know what he's doing, 6th graders know more about tactics than the military, the answer to everything is to soak those big corporations and seek "international" support.
posted on March 21, 2004 07:27:21 AM new
desquirrel,
Your post illustrates one reason that we can't discuss anything here. You have stated nothing but insults which, of course requires a reply and the beat goes on.
You remind me of a mini linda. Like linda, you have incorrectly stated my position in the past and present - even including your opinion of where I obtain my information which is also incorrect. Never in the past have I stated that this war is for oil alone but rather for a combination of factors including oil. Your quote, "steal oil so the babies would die" is nonsensical. Even you should be able to make better sense than that.
Your attack on Krs, who is no longer here is especially indicative of your narrow minded lack of decency. Krs needs no defense from me because he is recognized as one of the most intelligent and outstanding posters in the history of this board and when he left, this board died.
Krs also served in Vietnam where he was awarded two awards for heroism under fire and the Purple Heart, 17 awards of other combat related significance and some Vietnamese award for Gallantry, along with three presidential valorous unit citations. Your inference that his experience leaves him without basis for an opinion on the planning aspect of the war is laughable. Besides his combat experience he also studied law in order to help Vietnam vets who were having difficulties receiving their deserved benefits when they returned from Vietnam.
If you are unaware of the poor planning in the execution of this war, I suggest that you expand your reading, whatever that may be. Gallup polls of opinion don't cover such information. "Poor planning before during and after mission accomplished was pronounced and is embarrassingly clear. How you have missed such information is remarkable.
So, duhsquirrel, throughout your posting activity you have shown great respect and interest in gallup poll opinions. That's about all that I can remember about you.
posted on March 21, 2004 12:52:48 PM new
"even including your opinion of where I obtain my information which is also incorrect."
As you well know, the response was sarcastic, not literal. And while you can post links to various UN studies with astericks that say "figures reported by the Iraqi government", it must be hard to keep a straight face.
" Krs also served in Vietnam where he was awarded two awards for heroism under fire and the Purple Heart, 17 awards of other combat related significance and some Vietnamese award for Gallantry, along with three presidential valorous unit citations. Your inference that his experience leaves him without basis for an opinion on the planning aspect of the war is laughable. Besides his combat experience he also studied law in order to help Vietnam vets who were having difficulties receiving their deserved benefits when they returned from Vietnam."
Totally irrelevent in the matter posted. Now if we wanted to know how to field strip an M-16, you might have something.
"If you are unaware of the poor planning in the execution of this war, I suggest that you expand your reading, whatever that may be. Gallup polls of opinion don't cover such information. "Poor planning before during and after mission accomplished was pronounced and is embarrassingly clear. How you have missed such information is remarkable."
Because for such information, I would consult guys named Schwartzkopf, Powell, etc, not Tom Hayden, Al Franken, and Jesse Jackson.
I notice since you respect Ken's Vietnam credentials so much, that respect doesn't extend to people who served that tell you Kerry's boat exploits run counter to the operational uses of those craft and the standing orders for them.
posted on March 22, 2004 04:56:03 PM new
Monday, March 22, 2004
US HQ Receives Rocket Fire; Elsewhere US soldiers Killed, Wounded
Wire services report that the US headquarters in Iraq was targeted by rocket fire Sunday morning, with other explosives landing elsewhere in downtown Baghdad. The attack was remarkable for being launched during the day, and that it could be pulled off at that time is a bad sign indeed on the security front. The rockets killed 2 Iraqi civilians, wounded 5, and wounded a US soldier.
In Fallujah, on Saturday night, guerrillas fired three rockets at the US army base, killing two soldiers and wounding five.
"A Task Force 1st Armored Division soldier and an Iraqi interpreter were killed and three other soldiers were wounded during an (improvised explosive device) attack on March 21," a statement from the U.S. military said.
Rather has offended a different crowd this time. Former Minnesota Vikings football coach Bud Grant visited Iraq and the troops with fellow NFL alumni.
According to the Minnesota Star Tribune, Grant said the troops made sure to tell him and the others that what's being portrayed in the media about Iraq could not be further from the truth.
"They've got a job to do," said the ex-coach. "They hate Dan Rather because he only wants to talk about who got killed. And they're doing so much more than killing people or getting killed.
They are supporting the countryside, they're helping them keep everything as peaceful as they can. They're opening schools and waterways and electrical outlets. They're doing things to help the country."
In describing a list of accomplishments by the occupation, Grant said that there's "so much good that's going on, so many good things that they're out there every night patrolling, keeping the peace as much as they can, helping people get on their feet, establishing roads and communication."
Regrettably, "So much is good, and nobody wants to report that."
Rosen: The Violence is Relentless; Clerics Speak of Jihad against Infidel Americans
Freelance journalist Nir Rosen, who has been living in the real Iraq unembedded, lets loose with what the Sunni heartland of Iraq is actually like under US occupation. It is, clearly, a hellhole that has all the stability of a pressure cooker with the lid on tight and no release valve.
Excerpts:
"The violence is relentless. Explosions from bombs, rocket propelled grenades and artillery as well as guns firing can be heard all day and night, but their locations are usually impossible to determine, even if you are foolish enough to search for them after dark, when gangs and wild dogs own the streets. There are systematic assassinations of policemen, translators, local officials, and anybody associated with the occupiers. The pace of the violence is normal and mundane, so nobody cares . . .
Mosques are attacked every night and clerics killed, leading to retaliations against the opposite sect. Mosques now have armies of young volunteers wielding Kalashnikovs guarding them. Soon neighborhood mosques will unite to form neighborhood armies, to fight rival mosques or rival neighborhoods. (Even many journalists now travel with armed bodyguards; in at least one incident they returned fire, making them combatants) . . .
Though clerics from both sects are assassinated weekly, the culprits are unknown and the leaders exhort their flock to be patient, blaming the "Anglo American Zionist conspiracy." After the March 2 explosions in Karbala and Baghdad, where I saw piles of body parts, scalps, hands, and fly-covered pieces of flesh, the fury was directed at the Americans. Immediately after the three suicide bombs struck in Baghdad, spraying blood even on the mosque's ceiling, the loudspeakers urged people to be calm and accused the Americans and Jews of attacking them. Shi'ite mosques sell CDs of the riot in Kadhim, when thousands of Shi'ite men attacked American military medical vehicles that came to help, and then chased them to the base, throwing shoes, stones and epithets, waving flags and taunting the reviled occupiers. The American retreat into the base was a great victory for the shocked Shi'ites.
Though Shi'ite and Sunni leaders hastened to mouth professions of unity following the attacks in Karbala and Kadhimiya, they hate each other. Sunni and Shi'ite newspapers have grown more brazen in their attacks against each other. The only things they agree on are the need for an Islamic government (though they disagree on what it will look like) and their insistence that the Jews and Americans are to blame for all their woes. The Sunnis are scared, they fear the impending Shi'ite takeover of Iraq if anything resembling a democratic election takes place. Sunnis view Shi'ites the way white South Africans viewed blacks, and now feel disenfranchised, seeing the barbaric heathens threatening to rule their country. Many Sunnis cling to the fiction that they are in fact the majority, and the Shi'ites are all Iranians . . .
But Sunni Arabs don't scare Shi'ites anymore. The threat is America now. Only America can thwart the long-suppressed Shi'ite hope to control Iraq and establish a theocracy. Their expectations are high. Now is their time to inherit Iraq and only America stands in the way. . . [R]adical clerics such as Muqtada Sadr speak of a jihad against the infidel Americans who have come to kill the Mahdi (Shi'ite messiah). Radical Sunnis and members of the resistance hate the compromising Sistani but respect Muqtada for his defiance. In every mosque and religious center in the country one can purchase the DVDs, CDs, tapes and literature of the Islamic revolution that rejects "American democracy" and "American freedom." In Shi'ite stores you can buy books about Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran, and in Sunni stores you can buy radical Sunni magazines published in Saudi Arabia.
Sunni and Shi'ite leaders were quick to condemn the new interim constitution for its secularism. They were united in calling the Quran their only constitution . . .
Meanwhile over ten thousand Iraqi men are being held prisoner, and most of them are innocent. Iraqi security guards as well as American soldiers hate the explosive-sniffing dog in front of the Sheraton and Palestine hotels, because they, like the rest of us who live in the area, are subject to its olfactory whims as it imagines every day that it smells a bomb and they must close off the street for several hours. Two of my friends were arrested for not having a bomb last week, when the dog decided their bag smelled funny. They were jailed for four days though they were not carrying a bomb. Unlike the murderous accuracy of the Israeli security forces, who at least speak Arabic, the American security forces are a blunt instrument. They arrest hundreds at once, hoping somebody will know something. One morning in the village of Albu Hishma, the local US commander decided to bulldoze any house that had pro-Saddam graffiti on it, and gave half a dozen families a few minutes to remove whatever they cared about the most before their homes were flattened."
posted on March 29, 2004 08:35:12 PM newHayward man stunned by son's death in Iraq
Former teachers describe Andrew Dang as strong youth who overcame poverty to shine
By Michelle Meyers, STAFF WRITER
HAYWARD -- When Dung Dang was contacted Tuesday by a television reporter working on a story about Dang's son, he was overcome with a sense of relief.
It meant his son, who was serving with the U.S. Marines in Iraq, was alive and being honored in some capacity.
Hours later, Dang, a Hayward software engineer, realized he had jumped to the wrong conclusion. A cousin called Dang after seeing a report on the 11 o'clock TV news about the death Monday of his son, 20-year-old Lance Cpl. Andrew Dang, who attended Burbank Elementary School through the fifth grade and later lived in Foster City.
"I was in shock. I was stunned," the elder Dang said, his eyes tear-filled.
Dang tried to find his estranged ex-wife, Andrew Dang's mother, Antoinette Medina. But she had moved from their former Foster City home, and he was unable to track down her new home. A military spokesman said Medina is too distraught to talk.
By Wednesday afternoon, Dang had been visited by Marine officials and had read several press accounts of how his son's alma mater, Aragon High School in San Mateo, had honored the younger Dang as a patriot and standout student athlete.
Andrew Dang was a combat engineer assigned to the 1st Combat Engineer Battalion, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, based at Camp Pendleton in San Diego County. He had arrived just two weeks before his death.
Marine spokesman Sgt. Charles Moor said Dang was on foot patrol when he was hit by gunfire and rocket-propelled grenades. No further details were released.
Dung Dang, who moved back to Hayward in 2000 after he and Medina divorced, said he last visited his son before Christmas at Camp Pendleton.
It was his first trip overseas, Dang said. He wanted to visit relatives in Vietnam, but he didn't have a chance.
The younger Dang, who as a child in Hayward played soccer, rode bikes and loved Kennedy Park, is also survived by two brothers, Anthony, a senior at San Mateo High School, and Anderson, a freshman at Aragon.
Andrew Dang was described by teachers at Aragon as a strong youth who overcame poverty and two mediocre high school years to grow into a star wrestler, a good football player and an advanced placement student who was well-liked by his peers.
A Camp Pendleton spokesman said Dang is the first Pendleton-based Marine to be killed in hostile fire in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He is the third serviceman from the greater Bay Area lost to the war in Iraq recently.
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger offered condolences to Dang's family members Tuesday. And the state Assembly is scheduled to adjourn its session Monday in Dang's honor.
FALLUJAH, Iraq (AP) Jubilant residents dragged the charred corpses of four foreign contractors one a woman, at least one an American through the streets Wednesday and hanged them from the bridge spanning the Euphrates River. Five American soldiers died in a roadside bombing nearby.
The four contract workers for the U.S.-led coalition were killed in a rebel ambush of their SUVs in Fallujah, a Sunni Triangle city about 35 miles west of Baghdad and scene of some of the worst violence on both sides of the conflict since the beginning of the American occupation a year ago.
It was reminiscent of the 1993 scene in Somalia, when a mob dragged the corpse of a U.S. soldier through the streets of Mogadishu, eventually leading to the American withdrawal from the African nation.
posted on March 31, 2004 10:21:35 AM new
"It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom; it is another sight finer to fight for another man's." --Mark Twain
posted on March 31, 2004 11:09:08 AM newThere have been 700 coalition deaths, 600 Americans, 59 Britons, five Bulgarians, one Dane, one Estonian, 17 Italians, two Poles, 10 Spaniards, two Thai and three Ukrainian, in the war as of March 31, 2004. The casualty list below reflects the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen and sailors whose families have been notified of their deaths by each country's government. This list is updated regularly. There have been 3,433 U.S. troops wounded in the war, according to the Pentagon.
It's been a couple of weeks since I did this and I know that some seem to get upset when I quote the figures.
The US couldn't even handle the war in Afghanistan and then jumped head first into Iraq and started another one and look what is happening. How many more men do they have to send? No one knows.
posted on March 31, 2004 12:07:39 PM new
Unless we have a large contingent of ground forces in Iraq forever, this time next year Iraq will be an Islamic Republic, and all our soldiers lives and all of our tax dollars will be for nought. Bush had his head up his a$$ on Iraq. What do you suppose Bush was thinking when he ordered the invaision ?
You can not force democracy down the throats of any country at the end of a rifle or barrel of a tank. It didin't work in Vietnam and it won't work in Iraq.
Islamic culture is not compatible with democracy.
Our friends in Saudi Arabia and the other Middle East OPEC countries have registered their displeasure with our actions in Iraq by cutting oil production while the US has the highest gasoline prices ever recorded.
Does anyone actually think that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran will set idly by while the United States installs a western style democracy right next door ????
If the truth was known, Saudi Arabia is supporting the violence in Iraq along with help from Iran. In fact bin Laden et al are probably in Iran.
2-1 the Shiites take over Iraq and align themselves with Iran to form a fundementalist Shiite Islamic super power block in the Persian Gulf -- and guess who their number one and two enemies will be ?? America and Israel.
Iraq was the ONLY secular government in the region. So what does the a$$hole Bush do ? He invades Iraq and opens the dooor wide for the Shiite Jihadists.
Iraq should have been the last country we invaded. Saudi Arabia should have been the first we attempted to democritize.
posted on March 31, 2004 01:34:07 PM new
Helen, one of the most disturbing things to me when I read the link you posted was that children were involved in this.
posted on March 31, 2004 02:13:44 PM new
Right, Kiara...what a horrific waste.
2 SUVS ambushed, sprayed with bullets and then set on fire --bodies mutilated and drug through the street and hung on a bridge.
As James Carroll wrote, "Whatever happens from this week forward in Iraq, the main outcome of the war for the United States is clear. We have defeated ourselves."
"It must be considered that there is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things." This warning is from Niccolo Machiavelli, yet it has never had sharper resonance.
"More than a decade ago, after Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, President George H. W. Bush explicitly sought to initiate, as he put it to Congress, a "new world order." He made that momentous declaration on Sept. 11, 1990. Eleven years later, the suddenly mystical date of 9/11 motivated his son to finish what the father began. A year ago last week, Bush the younger launched a war against the man who tried to kill his dad, initiating the opposite of order."
posted on April 5, 2004 06:36:21 AM new
Now, Sadr City, in addition to Falluja is out of control. According to Reuters, 12 U.S. troops have been killed in combat over the past 24 hours.
To say Iraq is getting more complicated by the minute would be an understatement. In a span of five days, we've lost effective control of Sadr City and Falluja. Each by a different enemy.
Falluja's current occupiers have no intention of holding the city. Given the region, these are likely former Bathists -- able to mount the well organized and videotaped lynching of the four mercs. The idea being, we're going to make a scene, spur a horrific level of outrage, and spur the US to respond in a heavy handed manner.
Those attackers -- damage done -- are likely gone from Falluja, and it will be the people of that city (the vast majority who have nothing to do with the war) that will suffer the repercussions. People will be killed. New blood feuds will be kindled. Additional Iraqis will take up arms against the occupiers. It's a strategy long used by rebels in places like Peru, Sierra Leone, and yes, even my native El Salvador -- invite massive retaliation that will kill lots of civilians to add fuel to the resistance. Not noble in the least, but effective so long as the US plays along.
"Shock and awe doesn't melt opposition away, it merely swells the ranks of the enemy. The solution? I've got nothing. There's a reason Bush I decided not to march to Baghdad in 1991 ..."
Hundreds of U.S. and Iraqi troops in tanks, trucks and other vehicles surrounded the turbulent city of Fallujah on Monday ahead of a major operation against insurgents following the grisly slayings of four American security contractors last week.
Explosions and gunfire could be heard coming from the center of the city. Streets on the outskirts were largely deserted. One U.S. Marine was killed in fighting in the area Monday, said Lt. Col. Gregg Olson, commander of the 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment.
U.S. commanders have been vowing a massive response to pacify Fallujah, one of the most violent cities in the Sunni Triangle, the heartland of the anti-U.S. insurgency north and west of Baghdad.
After the slayings of the Americans on Wednesday, residents dragged the four bodies through the streets, hanging two of their charred corpses from a bridge, in horrifying scenes that showed the depth of anti-U.S. sentiment in the city.
U.S. troops closed off entrances to Fallujah with earth barricades ahead of the planned operation, code named "Vigilant Resolve." Military patrols entered the outer suburbs on reconnaissance missions and to broadcast warnings on loud speakers to residents to stay indoors until Tuesday.
Iraqi police in the city visited mosques, dropping off Arabic leaflets from the U.S. military, telling residents that there was a daily 7 p.m. to 6 a.m. curfew. It ordered them not to congregate in groups or carry weapons, even if licensed. It instructed people that if U.S. forces enter their homes, they should gather in one room and if they want to talk to the troops to have their hands up.
Some 1,200 U.S. Marines and two battalions of Iraqi security forces were poised to enter the city to arrest suspected insurgents, said Lt. James Vanzant, 2nd Battalion, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. He would not say when the troops would enter the city.
"The city is surrounded," Vanzant said. "It's an extended operation. We want to make a very precise approach to this. ... We are looking for the bad guys in town."
Marine 1st Lt. Eric Knapp said the troops will target the killers of the four Americans as well as rebels who have attacked U.S. forces and Iraqi police in the past month. "Those people are specially targeted to be captured or killed," he said.
A Marine officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said U.S. forces had a list of targets for raids. He would not give details.
A witness reported that a U.S. helicopter struck a residential area in the city early Monday, killing five people. The bombing damaged five houses, said the witness, Mohammed Shawkat. There was no immediate U.S. comment on the report.
Another witness, resident Ali Jasim, said there was shooting near one of the U.S. barricades on a road out of Fallujah and some Iraqis who were trying to leave the city were hit. It was unclear whether they were killed or wounded. Roads to a hospital in Fallujah were blocked to all traffic except ambulances.
The California-based 1st Marine Expeditionary Force assumed responsibility for Fallujah, 30 miles west of Baghdad, from the Army's 82nd Airborne Division on March 24.
The Marines said they intended to take a softer approach with Fallujah residents, hoping to win popular support. But the Marines have quickly found themselves mired in violence. On March 26, Marines and insurgents fought a lengthy street battle in the city that killed one Marine and five Iraqis.
The same day as the killing of the four U.S. civilians, five Marines were killed when a bomb exploded under their vehicle in a village near Fallujah.
----------------------
The Marine's will do what they have to do.....just as the Army did when they were there. And I hope all can see they aren't going after any innocent women and children.
posted on April 5, 2004 07:28:46 AM new
U.S. Declares Radical Shiite Cleric an "outlaw" After Clashes Kill Dozens; U.S. Troops Seal of Fallujah
By Hamza Hendawi Associated Press Writer
Published: Apr 5, 2004
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -
The top U.S. administrator in Iraq declared a radical Shiite cleric an "outlaw" Monday after his supporters rioted in Baghdad and four other cities in fighting that killed at least 52 Iraqis, eight U.S. troops and a Salvadoran soldier.
The fiercest battle took place Sunday in the streets of Sadr City, Baghdad's largest Shiite neighborhood, where black-garbed Shiite militiamen fired from rooftops and behind buildings at U.S. troops, killing the eight Americans. At least 30 Iraqis were killed and more than 110 wounded in the fighting, doctors said.
Violence broke out Monday morning in an other Shiite neighborhood of the capital, al-Shula, where followers of the cleric clashed with a U.S. patrol. An American armored vehicle was seen burning, and an Iraqi man was seen running off with a heavy machine gun apparently taken from the vehicle. A U.S. helicopter hovered overhead. There were no immediate reports of injuries.
Meanwhile, U.S. troops on Monday sealed off Fallujah ahead of a major operation code named "Vigilant Resolve," aimed at pacifying the city, one of the most violent cities in the Sunni Triangle, the heartland of the insurgency against the American occupation.
U.S. commanders have been vowing a massive response after insurgents killed four American security contractors in the city, west of Baghdad, on Wednesday. Residents dragged the Americans' bodies through the streets, hanging two of their charred corpses from a bridge, in horrifying scenes that showed the depth of anti-U.S. sentiment in the city.
Some 1,200 Marines and two battalions of Iraqi security forces were poised to enter the city in a raid to capture suspected insurgents, officials said. They would not say when the sweep would begin.
A Marine was killed Monday in Anbar province, where Fallujah is located, the military said, without providing further details. On Sunday, a suicide attacker detonated a bomb-laden vehicle as he tried to enter a U.S. base in the northern city of Kirkuk, killing one U.S. soldier and wounding six Americans and six Iraqis, the military said. A roadside bomb killed a U.S. soldier in the city of Mosul. The violence pushed the U.S. death toll in Iraq to at least 613.
The insurgency that has plagued U.S. troops in Iraq for months has been led by Sunni Muslims. But Sunday's clashes in Baghdad and three other cities threatened to open a dangerous new front: a confrontation with Iraq's powerful Shiite Muslim majority, which has until now largely avoided violence with the Americans.
Hundreds were wounded in Sunday's violence in Baghdad, Najaf, Nasiriyah and Amarah. The riots were ignited by the arrest of an aide to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Followers of al-Sadr also took over the offices of the governor in the southern city of Basra.
In response, L. Paul Bremer, the top U.S. administrator in Iraq, declared al-Sadr an "outlaw" who threatens Iraq's security.
"Effectively he is attempting to establish his authority in the place of the legitimate authority. We will not tolerate this. We will reassert the law and order which the Iraqi people expect," Bremer told a security team meeting convened to discuss how to respond to Sadr.
Bremer did not say if U.S. authorities would move to arrest al-Sadr, but the declaration stepped up the confrontation with the 30-year-old firebrand cleric, who fiercely opposes the U.S. occupation and is backed by a militia known as the "Al-Mahdi Army."
"There is no room for militias in the new Iraq. ... If there are militias that seek to exert control, we will address that head on. And that is clearly what we are doing right now," a senior U.S. official said Monday.
Al-Sadr does not hold widespread support among Iraq's Shiites, many of whom see him as too young, radical and inexperienced to lead. But he does have the backing of hundreds of young seminary students and many impoverished Shiites, devoted to him because of his anti-U.S. stance and the memory of his father, a Shiite religious leader gunned down by suspected Saddam agents in 1999.
Al-Sadr has demanded an immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq, and his followers have protested against U.S.-backed local officials in several towns in the south in previous months. But the cleric's political program has often been unclear. The violence Sunday was a sign of al-Sadr's strength.
The U.S. troops moved into Baghdad's Sadr City - named after Muqtada's father - after militiamen ambushed a U.S. patrol in the neighborhood, said Maj. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the Army's 1st Armored Division.
More troops streamed into the neighborhood - up to 1,000 at one point - fighting sporadic gunbattles with more than 500 militiamen, Dempsey said. The fighting ended after a column of tanks moved in. During the fighting, police evacuated three stations to regroup in a single station, and Mahdi Army militiamen seized the abandoned sites, U.S. officials said.
Al-Chawadir hospital, one of two hospitals in Sadr City, received 28 dead Iraqis and 90 wounded from the fighting, said a doctor, Qassim Saddam. Another hospital reported two dead and 21 wounded.
Monday morning, U.S. tanks were parked in one of the neighborhood's main markets. Many stalls in the market were burned out, and buildings were pockmarked with bullet holes.
During a street protest by some 5,000 people Sunday near the Shiite holy city of Najaf, al-Sadr supporters opened fire on the base of Spanish troops, sparking a battle that lasted several hours. A Salvadoran soldier was killed died and at least nine other soldiers were wounded, the Spanish Defense Ministry said. The U.S. military denied a report that an American soldier was killed. Twenty-two Iraqis died and more than 200 were wounded, said Falah Mohammed, director of the Najaf health department.
Al-Sadr issued a statement later Sunday calling off street protests, but he also called on followers to "do what you see fit in your provinces. Strike terror in the heart of your enemy ... We can no longer be silent in the face of their abuses." Some of al-Sadr's followers in Baghdad said they interpreted this as a call for armed resistance against U.S. forces.
The violence was touched off by the arrest of Mustafa al-Yacoubi, a senior aide to al-Sadr, on charges of murdering Abdel-Majid al-Khoei, a rival Shiite cleric. A total of 25 arrest warrants have been issued in the case, and 13 suspects have been taken into custody, an official at the coalition headquarters said.
Al-Sadr supporters also were angered by the March 28 closure of his weekly newspaper by U.S. officials. The Americans alleged the newspaper was inciting violence against coalition troops.
--------------------
Maybe some might just hold the newspaper at fault for inciting these riots against our troops....instead of defending some constitutional 'right' to call for violent against our troops.
posted on April 5, 2004 08:58:49 AM new
There aren't enough troops in Iraq. The soldiers will be too busy fighting and they will not be able to continue with the reconstruction like they were intent on doing.
Bush was unprepared for this and the events of the last week or so show it more and more. Blast me if you will, but I just cannot understand how a so-called world power could go to war and have this happen.
posted on April 5, 2004 09:04:00 AM new
On Fox News, just now President Bush recomfirmed his committed to the 6-30 transfer deadline.
--------
In a press conference, just now, Brig. Gen Mark Kimmitt, along with Coalitional spokesperson Dan Senor, said even when the hand over takes place on 6-30 that doesn't mean our troops just pull out and go home.
He said there will be a U.S. Embassy in Iraq.
He said even though the political powers will be handed over on 6-30 does not mean our military will not still carry the major responsibility for the security in Iraq. That our "major roll will continue".
When asked about needing more forces he said no...the soldiers would put down their paint brushes, tools and temporarily stop the work they've been doing on hospitals, schools, etc. and fight the extremists. When they've taken care of them....they'll return to the job of helping to rebuild Iraq like they have been before these latest outbreaks of violence.
Earlier it was stated that they don't see this as all the Iraqi people being against our coalition, because most Iraqis want peace, want their own government and many are moderates. And they were stunned that their own people did to those four civilians. It was pointed out these are the extremists who are taking these actions against the coalition....and that they will be dealt with.
posted on April 5, 2004 09:09:33 AM new
I also wanted to mention that President Bush, on Fox News, just stated:
"Iraqi's don't have to fear that Americans will run."
GOOD FOR HIM!!!
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Kiara.. lol Maybe you want to run your opinions by Brig. General Kimmitt....he appears to disagree with you. I think he's more qualified to make that call than you are.
posted on April 5, 2004 09:26:53 AM new
Linda, keep laughing. Who do Generals take their orders from? This guy wants to keep his job so will say what he's told to say.
Time will tell what will happen there and I do think they will need more troops. Obviously there wasn't enough security in some areas otherwise these events wouldn't have happened.
I think one of the major steps in the strategy of war is to understand your enemy, it looks like Bush and his gang haven't done that. They seem to have misjudged the religious factions and hopefully they won't become a bigger problem than they already are. Right now we all have to wait and see as it plays out.
posted on April 5, 2004 09:48:59 AM new
kiara - If you and helen would ever read anything besides somebody's blog or some other far left 'take' on what's really going on over there...you might be more informed of the actual FACTS.
Our military commanders are quite capable of deciding what they need and what they don't need. But, again you think you know better. right.... And this President has stated that the decision making process stays with the military commanders.
The thing the 'left' media keeps focusing on is this being a difference between religious factors....is not what's going on there right now. As Gen. Brig. Kimmit just stated. This is extremists only.....doing exactly what has been previously stated they would do as the 'turn over' time nears. And we're probably going to see even more of this. THEY ALREADY KNEW they'd see more uprising. They already planned for this to happen.
I've read other articles today, which I don't have time to hunt for right now, about how our coalition is working with the people in the area where the four civilians were to oust these extremists. They're mortified their own would do such things. It's not like everyone who lives in that area is against our troops. That's the reason they're not going to go level the whole place. They realize there are just a few militants acting out....that it's NOT the majority that are doing this.
And Brig. Gen. Kimmitt also said that the uprising in al sadr is in protest of the coalition forces arresting that one militant. They were enforcing an arrest warrent ISSUED BY THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT....AN IRAQ JUDGE. They are there to enforce Iraq laws. And their not going to run away because some don't think they have to obey the Iraq laws.
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Does Canada still have troops in either Afghanistan or in Iraq, kiara? If they do...maybe your country had better start focusing what the terrorists might do to your own country. Just today the AQ related terrorists have again warned Spain if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq....blood will be running freely. Just like it did in their train bombings. The terrorists want them to withdraw NOW....not when Spain planned to do so. And if the UN gets involved...Spain has said they will leave their troops there. So....we'll see if Spain gives into these new threats or not.
But what I'm saying is that everyone is going to be facing increased threats from the terrorists who are working against Iraq forming their own government.
posted on April 5, 2004 10:29:24 AM new
The United States is building the largest U.S. embassy in the world in Baghdad ...with 3,000 employees. Since we can see, based on daily news reports that the situation is deteriorating and is in fact a catastrophic intelligence and foreign policy failure, a thinking person would come to the conclusion that the June date is simply symbolic. Tragically, we will be attempting to control that country for years.
posted on April 5, 2004 10:29:40 AM new
What is it with the left? Does membership require a partial lobotomy?
I mean they post they're favorite links from moveon.org et al like:
US unprepared for Iraqi resistance.
or
Our troops will be massacred in an invasion of Afganistan, look what happened to the Russians.
or
American face bloodbath in hand to hand fighting in the cities if we invade Iraq.
Do any of you people in your right minds think you can possible know even a particle of one of these operations? Do college courses in polical science give you insight into the capabilities of an Abrahms tank?
You are all in a lather because the Pentagon is "surprised" at the guerillas. There are very few surprised people. I'm sure the secretary at the front entrance of the Pentagon is not surprised, never mind the NSA.
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