posted on April 8, 2004 01:44:01 PM new
To put the issues back on track:
1. A conviction for which a person pled guilty can be appealed on any number of issues. Pleading guilty does not in any way foreclose your right to appeal.
2. Getting a guilty pled conviction overturned on appeal does allow for Double Jeopardy, just like an overturned conviction where there was a jury trial allows for Double Jeopardy.
3. Even plea bargains where it is agreed that there can be no appeal are appealable, and does not constitute a breach of any agreement.
Thus, the case at hand:
She can appeal.
If she overturns the conviction on appeal, Double Jeopardy is applicable.
posted on April 8, 2004 01:50:00 PM new
Well Twelvepole, I've handily rubbed your nose in your stupidity and I've done the same for tnernie your "law partner". LMAO !!!
posted on April 8, 2004 02:01:35 PM new
I do admire your tenacity to stay on with something you have shown to know little about... and are quite wrong.
posted on April 8, 2004 02:02:48 PM new
[i]Thus, the case at hand:
She can appeal.
If she overturns the conviction on appeal, Double Jeopardy is applicable.[/i]
Reamond, this is true on both counts.
IF the conviction is overturned double jeopardy would attach.
However, in my 'real life' experience, convictions are seldom overturned...they are remanded back to the trial court for disposition. At which time, generally the State will invoke the original charges and will prosecute the defendant to the fullest extent of the law...which in this defendant's case would be for murder.
I have been involved with several "plea bargain" appeals, and as I said before...99.9% of them are denied.
posted on April 8, 2004 02:29:19 PM newHowever, in my 'real life' experience, convictions are seldom overturned
The DNA appeal cases have a far greater success rate than than 1 tenth of one percent. And some of those cases had a defendant plead guilty under a plea agreement, and the case was overturned.
The "success" rate of appeals though is not at issue.
Go back and read my posts.
12 the legal eagle said, and Fenix seemed to agree, that you can't appeal if you plead guilty.
He then dug himself deeper and said that if your conviction is overturned, you can be re-tried for a greater offence and Double Jeopardy can not apply, because the defendant pled guilty.
We then have tnernie agree with 12 about the Double Jeopardy issue, and adds that a guilty plea is not a conviction on the merits. But seems to agree that a guilty plea is appealable.
Then he changes what he meant to:
Appeals aren't usually successful.
Breach of a plea agreement puts a defendant back at square one.
These are all interesting assertions, but have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
posted on April 8, 2004 03:18:30 PM new
LOL...Reamond has to disagree with me even when I agreed with him.
Okay, I went back and reread all of your posts for the third time.
Twelvepole nor I said anything about her conviction being overturned. Only you used the term overturned, which I confess I did not pay close enough attention to the first time.
I can't actually speak for Twelvepole, but as for myself, I was taking what you were saying as:
(1)She appeals.
(2)Case remanded back to trial court (conviction null and void).
(3)State retries case on original charges.
Which in the above scenario...double jeopardy does not attach. Correct?
Now...regarding that pesky little comment about a "conviction of the merits".
In the legal system, when you enter a plea the State stands up gives it's little speech about what you are charged with and a "Reader's Digest Condensed Book" version of the crime (THEIR verison). The Judge looks at the Defendant...says is this true, is this what you are pleading guilty to, etc. Defendant agrees...State goes home happy, Defendant goes to jail. End of story.
This is not the exact same as being convicted on the "merits of the offense", whereby a Judge or Jury hears BOTH SIDES of the story and the evidence (witnesses, physical evidence, etc.)is presented before the Court.
Which is why, most appeals if granted...are remanded back to the TRIAL COURT for disposition.
The only evidence the Court of Appeals looks at is transcripts of the plea agreement hearing, the sentencing hearing and the two parties Briefs, which were submited at the time of the appeal. They ASSUME everything was done properly unless you can show them clear and convincing evidence otheriwse.
I will admit I probably exaggerated the 99.9% denial rate. It's probably more like 99.7%.
