posted on April 14, 2004 10:59:28 PM new
While listening to talk radio tonight I was stunned to hear that Mr. Kerry received 3 purple hearts in 4 months therefore releasing him from his tour of duty in Vietnam early.
This URL although probably being Conservatives or independents wants Mr. Kerry to release his medical records, as he is the only one that can do that, so that the American people can see his actual injuries.
I think since he attacks Mr. Bush's Record everyone has a right to see why in 4 months and receiving 3 purple hearts what the injuries were to send him back stateside for the remaining of his service. Interesting reading.
http://25thaviation.org/johnkerry/id15.htm
Trying to get facts before our National Election to see if a change is warranted or let Mr. Bush continue.
posted on April 15, 2004 01:48:56 AM new
I can assure you of one thing, it was harder to earn a purple heart back in those days than it currently is. Anymore, if the enemy looks at you wrong you qualify for one.
After receiving three wounds, a Silver Star, and a Bronze medal Kerry was reassigned. A silver star is the Navy's fifth-highest medal. A very good account of Kerry's military service can be found in David Brinkley's book, Tour of Duty by Douglas Brinkley.
Kerry's most outstanding contribution to the country was his successful effort to end the Vietnam war.
posted on April 15, 2004 11:40:31 AM new
Not supprisingly Kerry SELF NOMINATED HIMSELF for the hearts & YET NEVER SPENT ANY TIME IN THE HOSPITAL OR SOUGHT ANY FORM OF MEDICAL TREATMENT
Anytime anyone suffered an type of wound in Nam they were ordered to see the corpsman/medic's for treatment.
As for his other medals, they had to be witnessed & nominated by a superior officer. I for one have not found any reference to whom nominated him for these medals.
----------------
Former US Navy Lt. Kerry will probably have the veteran vote after he successfully answers these questions:
Question number 1--Will you like President Bush release your service and medical records? Or do you want to hide the fact that you were only scratched and got 3 purple hearts to cut your combat zone tour to only 4 months? If you don't want to answer the question, simply lift up your shirt sleeve and show us a scar or two. What? No scars at all but 3 Purple Hearts permitted you and you demanded that your tour of duty be cut short by 2/3rds? Regulations require that to be awarded the Purple Heart you must be treated by a Medical Officer but that your "wounds" were so slight (if any) that you never saw a Medical Officer. One of your shipmates says that a wound was "self inflicted." You say in every speech that you are a "Vietnam War Veteran" and that President Bush only served in the National Guard and imply that the President is a draft dodger. But isn't it true that you are a FAILED draft dodger, having asked your draft board for a one year deferment so you could visit Paris and when they refused you, you joined the Navy. And while in the Navy didn't you take swift boat duty because you thought you would see little or no action. However, AFTER you were assigned, Admiral Zumwalt put those units into more direct combat roles.
Question number 2--Did you receive a Silver Star for chasing and killing a Vietnamese who was already wounded (or already killed) by another swift boat crewman? Did you get the Silver Star based on the Action Report that you wrote and the "action" that you alone witnessed? If you get a Silver Star for killing an enemy, wouldn't every soldier, sailor and marine who killed an enemy soldier also be entitled to wear a Silver Star? If you killed a wounded and helpless Vietnamese isn't that murder and not combat? Isn't what you did-the same act as what Lt. Calley committed- and he faced a court martial and was convicted? Your gunner's mate says that you were a coward and ran from the enemy. Another says that you've abandoned your shipmates until you needed them to dress up your campaign 35 years after the war.
Didn't you throw your Silver Star back at the US Government in protest for our fight against worldwide communism. You've said that those were your medals...then you said they were someone else's medals...then you said that you threw your RIBBONS but NOT your medals and now we see your self awarded "Silver Star" proudly on display in your office. Is the Silver Star on display one that you bought at the gedunk (ship's store) or did you lie to us about throwing your medals away? Isn't your self awarded Silver Star for putting a bullet into a fleeing wounded (or already dead) enemy and your three Purple Hearts for self admitted scratches that took you out of action for ONE DAY an insult to every veteran?
Question number 3--While a US Navy commissioned officer did you commit a court-martial offense by repeatedly disobeying orders and putting your unarmored swift boat and its crew in danger by beaching it in combat, killing unarmed civilians and children and/or killing wounded and helpless enemy combatants? What did Admiral Zumwalt mean when he said "I don't know if I should give Lt. Kerry a medal or a court martial for all the civilians he's killed. I want to put a straight jacket on Lt. Kerry." If you were Commander in Chief but had no "boss" would you also act out of control but have no one to put you in a "straight jacket?"
Question number 4--After your active duty in the Navy did you fulfill your Navy Reserve obligations or ignore them and devote all your time to anti American demonstrations which emboldened our enemy to eventually win the war? Because you encouraged our enemy when American fighting men were still in the field, can you give us a number of how many American soldiers, sailors and Marines you are responsible for killing? Why does LTC Oliver North say, "John Kerry has blood of American soldiers on his hands."
Question number 5 When you returned from Vietnam, you labeled all other Vietnam Veterans war criminals. You made these claims under oath. Were you lying then, or are you lying now? You attended your first pro Viet Cong rally and marched under the communist flag on October 15, 1969 when you were still on active duty in the US Navy. Would you call that treason? Were you wearing your US Navy dogtags, carrying a US Navy ID card and still obligated by the oath you took to "support and defend the United States" as you encouraged our enemy to continue to kill our soldiers, marines and sailors on the battle fields of southeast Asia?
Question number 6 You associated yourself with Hanoi Jane Fonda, an avowed Communist whosupported North Vietnam. Hanoi Jane stated that our prisoners were LYING when they claimed to have been tortured by the Vietnamese. Do you believe former LCDR John McCain to be a liar?
Question number 7 7 Have you condemned Jane Fonda and asked her not to support your campaign? In his 1985 memoir about the war, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap wrote that "if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S." The Department of Justice was set to charge Jane Fonda with treason, but the President stopped that action so the country could heal after our Vietnamese allies were slaughtered. Was the Justice Department set to charge you with treason as well? What did Hanoi Jane mean when she called you "a hero?" Did she mean you were an American hero for killing Vietnamese civilians? Or, did she mean that you are a Viet Cong or Communist Vietnam "hero" for helping them win the war.
Question number 8 You wrote a book entitled The New Soldier where the cover MOCKS the Iwo Jima memorial with scruffy men "raising" an upside-down United States flag.
7,000 Marines DIED at Iwo Jima including three from the famous photo you Mock. Do you care to apologize to the 7,000 families of those Marines? During the Vietnam War why did you encourage American soldiers and sailors to desert in your book THE NEW SOLDIER and in your speeches. As our Commander in Chief would desertion during wartime be "ok" with you?
Question number 9 You have stated that going into the National Guard was like running off to Canada. Tens of thousands of Guardsmen served in Vietnam, several thousand gave their lives...do you care to apologize? Didn't you try to avoid Vietnam service by asking for a one year vacation from the draft board so you could go to Paris in the hopes the war would be over by the time you returned to your county at war? Lt. Bush flew a F102. Many of the men who flew F102s were killed in them. Would you care to explain how risking your life to fly a fighter plane is cowardly--explain this to the widows and their children? The F102 was tasked with meeting and shooting down Soviet bombers coming to the USA by flying over Canada to destroy US cities and military installations. Surely as Lt. Bush would shoot them they would be trying to shoot and kill Lt. Bush. Please explain the cowardice in Lt. Bush's military service? In your mind is engaging the enemy "over Canada" the same as "fleeing to Canada?" Also, wasn't Lt. Bush risking his life in the early 1970's when you were at the very same time "protesting" the war, encouraging our enemies and calling us sailors, soldiers and veterans "war criminals?"
Question number 10 You have stated you would turn the decision on deployment of US troops over to the United Nations and OPPOSED the death penalty even for terrorists who murder Americans. How would you win the war on terrorism given your stated positions? You state that you voted for the war but now state that you were only voting for the "process" of the UN putting pressure on Iraq. Please show us in the vote the word "process." Also explain why 99 other US Senators could not find the word "process" in the bill they voted on. Finally, please explain how we are to believe anything you say, or ever said, and how you are a member of our "band of brothers" after you called us all war criminals and after you gave aid and comfort to our enemy while still in the US Navy and betrayed all soldiers, sailors and Marines who served their country honorably? Picture: Author, USS Yorktown, USS Kearsarge at Yankee Station off coast of North Vietnam 1968, 1969
John Kerry’s website claims http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2002_0827.htmlthat one of his three Purple Heart medals was for a “bullet to the leg”. According to the Boston Globe, "Kerry declined ... to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds.”
Why? Because there is no documentary evidence available and Kerry won’t release it, proving that he was treated for a bullet wound. I guess Kerry thinks that sustaining a bullet wound sounds more macho than what every other source claims, which is that Kerry sustained a shrapnel wound.
According to Kerry's Globe Bio, Kerry suffered the following wounds:
"The Batman crew encountered some Viet Cong, engaged in a firefight, and Kerry was slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart on his first day of serious action."
"On Feb. 20, 1969, Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a shrapnel wound in his left thigh."
'We have dispatched Dr. David Kay...to search for the bio-warfare agents we believe hidden in Senator Kerry's forehead. If Senator Kerry has used botox as part of a wrinkle enrichment program, he is in violation of UN Resolution 752. Upon receiving Dr. Kay's report, the weapons of mass destruction that Senator Kerry so adamantly insists do not exist...may well be above his very nose.'" --Dick Cheney when asked whether John Kerry has had Botox treaments
[ edited by Bear1949 on Apr 15, 2004 11:42 AM ]
[ edited by Bear1949 on Apr 15, 2004 06:06 PM ]
posted on April 15, 2004 10:57:19 PM new
"Question number 9 You have stated that going into the National Guard was like running off to Canada. Tens of thousands of Guardsmen served in Vietnam, several thousand gave their lives..."
7000 National Guard Members served in Vietnam. 62 of them were killed in combat.
How ever the National Guard served a very important function during the Vietnam War. They helped to provide Nation defense for all the draft dodgers, protesters and more important this Nation, Mexico and of course Canada. Other than that I agree with Bear's Post.
"I can assure you of one thing, it was harder to earn a purple heart back in those days than it currently is"
One out of ten of those that served in Vietnam received the Purple Heart one or more times. 58,000 of those died in combat. I had a friend that received a Purple Heart when he stub his toe on the runway mash during a mortar attack He also received the Navy Cross after removing 4 Men from two F4's that were hit during the Attack, then returned to the two F4's and disarmed the ordnance.
Today 70 Marines will receive Purple Hearts
In Iraq. All wounds were bad enough for them not to return to duty. Instead they returned to duty by their own request after receiving treatment. Treatment is the name of the game. In Vietnam they would receive that many in less than an hour.
Food for thought. A Marine E3 at times commands more people than a skip boat commander in combat. A National Guard Pilot has more combat tactics training than a skip boat commander.
posted on April 15, 2004 11:15:39 PM newAll wounds were bad enough for them not to return to duty. Instead they returned to duty by their own request after receiving treatment.
I heard that too, Fred...and thought how lucky we are to have brave soldiers like them. And their actions go along with John McCain's new book on what true courage really means.
Re-elect President Bush!!
edited to ad: John McCain's book is titled "Why Courage Matters"
posted on April 17, 2004 06:09:19 AM new
Kerry describes a general or vice admiral meeting the wounded in a hospital..."and they give them purple hearts"
"How do you feel, son?"
"Fine sir, answers an 18-year-old with his leg blown off at the hip.
"Good. We'll have you home soon and you'll be better than ever'
Then Kerry speculated how the wounded teenager would wonder what
home in Ohio, Florida, or Oregon was going to be like without his legs or
arms or face. "Lying in a hospital bed, he can't even imagine yet what effort
it will take to get the veterans' hospital to help him to be 'better than ever'
Kerry continued bitterly. "But it doesn't really matter about his leg anyway.
He lost it for his country, fighting for freedom, and that's worth a leg or two,
even in Southeast Asia. So all the 18-year-olds are told. And they give them
posted on April 17, 2004 08:15:22 AM new
If Kerry got his Purple Hearts from a splinter or picking his nose, he still showed more courage and leadership than the draft dodging deserter Bush.
The only peril Bush was subject to during the Vietnam conflict was alcohol poisoning.
Kerry not only showed courage, but character. He could have taken the paths Bush and Cheney did, but he did not.
Just think about it. A man of wealth and privelege volunteers to go to war.
Kerry exhibits yet more courage and conviction after returning from Vietnam by going public against the war.
"Staying the course" is what the dinosaurs did.
We need smart people in the White House who have the intellegence to know how to resolve problems, not create them through recalcitrance. Bush is playing right into the hands of the terrorists.
posted on April 17, 2004 09:05:47 AM newJust think about it. A man of wealth and privilege volunteers to go to war.
A man of Wealth? Was he wealthy when he went to Vietnam and what privilege does he have that I don't have? Did he volunteer or was he drafted? I don't think 4 months in Vietnam makes a true soldier. Even if he received 3 purple hearts. (My opinion) If he has wealth before this marriage it is because he is a senator. You know senators pad their own salaries. Both Democrat and Republican. Now he is "wealthy" because he married wealth, but, it seems like she doesn't like to share her wealth. One more question why is he always challenging Bush's war record. Get to the facts thats all I like to hear but others like to hear all the trash. What can he do for this country. That is what I want to know. Now lets be realistic 10 million jobs, Take from the rich and give to the poor. Doesn't sound feasible to me.
posted on April 17, 2004 09:08:49 AM new
Kerry's Wobbly Base
Among the groups on whose support John Kerry is counting this November are a traditional Democratic constituency, union members, and one that in recent years at least has leaned more toward the GOP, military veterans. Kerry hopes to win the latter group by emphasizing his service in Vietnam, where by the way he served. But veterans are far from unanimous in their enthusiasm for Kerry, who also became a war protester and who, in 1971 Senate testimony, lent credence to accusations that [b]American soldiers were war criminals.
By making such a big deal of his Vietnam service, Kerry also opens himself up to an examination of his war record--which, although honorable, is not as flattering as his supporters might like to think, as today's Boston Globe reports:
A review by the Globe of Kerry's war record in preparation for a forthcoming book, "John F. Kerry: The Complete Biography," found that the young Navy officer acted heroically under fire, in one case saving the life of an Army lieutenant. But the examination also found that Kerry's commanding officer at the time questioned Kerry's first Purple Heart, which he earned for a wound received just two weeks after arriving in Vietnam.
"He had a little scratch on his forearm, and he was holding a piece of shrapnel," recalled Kerry's commanding officer, Lieutenant Commander Grant Hibbard. "People in the office were saying 'I don't think we got any fire,' and there is a guy holding a little piece of shrapnel in his palm." Hibbard said he couldn't be certain whether Kerry actually came under fire on Dec. 2, 1968, the date in questionand [sic] that is why he said he asked Kerry questions about the matter.
But Kerry persisted and, to his [Hibbard's] own "chagrin," Hibbard said, he dropped the matter. "I do remember some questions, some correspondence about it," Hibbard said. "I finally said, 'OK, if that's what happened . . . do whatever you want.' After that, I don't know what happened. Obviously, he got it, I don't know how."
As for union members, the Associated Press reports that "Kerry 'doesn't warm anybody up,' while President Bush is seen as likable and strong, according to focus groups of undecided union voters conducted for the AFL-CIO."
There may be some overlap between Kerry's problems with vets and with union members. The AP reports that most in the focus group knew about Kerry's Vietnam service: "It shows strength and inoculates on values, but Democrats 'shouldn't obsess about it,' the findings cautioned. Some participants found his role in protesting the war upon his return as negative."
posted on April 17, 2004 09:24:26 AM new
You can slander Kerry's war wounds all day long, but it doesn't erase the fact that the man in the White House now was a draft dodger and a deserter during time of war.
Bush, Cheney and their puppet master Karl Rove all went out of their way not to serve in Vietnam.
Bush, Cheney and Rove all could have been in Vietnam fighting along side brave men like Kerry, but they choose not to.
Bush, Cheney abd Rove are Chicken Hawks. They are the type we used to see on the playground, little loud mouths that egg other people on to fight and then they turn tail and run away once the fighting starts.
Kerry is the definition of a young man facing up to his patriotic duty with courage and conviction both before and after the Vietnam war. Bush, Cheney and Rove are examples of men with alligator mouths and Hummingbird asses. When butts are on the line, they aren't to be found.
The motto of Bush, Cheney, and Rove: WHEN DUTY CALLED WE DID NOT HESITATE, WE RAN AWAY LIKE LITTLE GIRLS.
posted on April 17, 2004 09:54:13 AM new
And I should mention as you do not that some found his frank assessment of the Viet Nam War a positive.
And as to the assertion that he accused US Servicemen of war crimes, yes some Servicemen were tried and convicted of war crimes both against their enemies as well as other servicemen. He never stated that all US Servicemen were war criminals.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
posted on April 17, 2004 10:29:52 PM new
[i]Kerry not only showed courage, but character
Just think about it. A man of wealth and privelege volunteers to go to war.[/i]
COURAGE my azz, volunteers to go to warBull ship.
Kerry did volunteer for the Swift boats. At the time he volunteered for the boats, they were ONLY use for offshore patrol. Not much change of running into VC or NVA, 10 miles off the coast.
Can you imagine the OH SH(&* factor by Kerry when 3 months into this tour, the boats are reassigned to brown water river patrol?
P.S., flying a Air National Guard Jet fighter is a hellofa lot riskier & dangerious that floating around on a Destroyer 20 miles out to sea.
'We have dispatched Dr. David Kay...to search for the bio-warfare agents we believe hidden in Senator Kerry's forehead. If Senator Kerry has used botox as part of a wrinkle enrichment program, he is in violation of UN Resolution 752. Upon receiving Dr. Kay's report, the weapons of mass destruction that Senator Kerry so adamantly insists do not exist...may well be above his very nose.'" --Dick Cheney when asked whether John Kerry has had Botox treaments
posted on April 17, 2004 11:52:42 PM new
And how close to Vietnam did Bush or Cheney get....? For that matter, Bush made damned sure he stayed far away from the National Guard, even when enlisted in it!
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on April 17, 2004 11:57:26 PM new
BTW, why is that some folks here who are very vocal that only people who have actually been in combat have the right to speak up about this or any war, have absolutely no problem slavishly following into war a President who himself has never been in combat, who went AWOL from the cushy National Guard unit he'd gotten into due to his daddy's position & money, and who lied to get us into the war in the first place?
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on April 18, 2004 07:42:19 AM new
Like I said before, slander Kerry's bravery all you want--IN BUSH YOU ARE SUPPORTING A DRAFT DODGING DESERTING LIAR.
Kerry was in the Vietnam war by choice. Bush and Cheney stayed out of the Vietnam war by choice.
When you support a liars and deserters like Bush and Cheney, you get messes like Iraq in return.
You must be against our troops to support someone like Bush as commander-in-chief.
posted on April 18, 2004 09:53:42 AM newYou must be against our troops to support someone like Bush as commander-in-chief.
Talk about draft dodgers
{b}CLINTON[/B] Do I need to say more??????
He was commander in chief and what did he do for security but ignore, ignore and ignore...
but let's not go into that because there was so much he did that was unethical that it would probably take up all the bandwith.
4 months in Vietnam does not make a war hero. 3 disputed Purple Hears does not make a war hero. Getting out early to run for office does not make a war hero. Bush did exactly what Kerry did get out of the military early...
posted on April 18, 2004 10:38:59 AM new
I don't understand why you are hung up on the issue of purple hearts with an obvious attempt to smear while ignoring the more significant and meaningful medals awarded to John Kerry. Not only is it silly but it pits your candidate with no combat experience against a former soldier who has won the Bronze medal and a Silver Star, the Navy's fifth-highest medal, commending distinctive gallantry in action.
One significance of purple hearts... When a soldier receives a total of three purple hearts they are given the opportunity to request reassignment from a combat zone. That is what John Kerry did and as a major contribution to this country and to Vietnam soldiers he used that time in a successful effort to end the war in Vietnam.
posted on April 18, 2004 11:45:02 AM new
Then compare that to our soldiers in Iraq who were injured, saw the medics and requested to be RETURNED to their units.
kerry's three injuries that required only ONE day away from his unit [for all three supposed injuries] and he requests to be sent home early. Ran away from those he was meant to lead as quickly as he was able.
No comparison on bravery between those serving now and kerry.
Plus he his medals/ribbons obviously didn't mean anything to him as he PRETENDED to throw them away in protest. how laughable...trying to fool everyone. Speaks to his honesty, or lack thereof, imo.
posted on April 18, 2004 12:16:24 PM new
kerry had absolutely NO right to talk about what the 'other' soldiers did when he appeared and testified before that commission in April of 1971.
[i]While in command of Swift Boat 44, Kerry and crew operated without prudence in a Free Fire Zone, carelessly firing at targets of opportunity racking up a number of enemy kills and some civilians.
His body count included-- a woman, her baby, a 12 year-old boy, an elderly man and several South Vietnamese soldiers.
"It is one of those terrible things, and I'll never forget, ever, the sight of that child," Kerry later said about the dead baby.
"But there was nothing that anybody could have done about it. It was the only instance of that happening."
Kerry said he was appalled that the Navy's ''free fire zone'' policy in Vietnam put civilians at such high risk.
posted on April 18, 2004 12:30:21 PM new
No right to speak. I beg your pardon but I believe it is the duty of any soldier to report acts deemed to be illegal under the Geneva convention rather than to aid and abet their commission.
The conduct of the armed forces of this nation is a stain on the honor and ideals which we claim to hold so dear.
I would not have brought this up as I have spent many years trying to forget but will not be silent when faced with your dementia like nationalism which you spew through the pasted words of others.
If you had one original thought in these matters I believe it would die of loneliness in the empty space of your cranium.
Unlike you, I don't ever wish to see anyone who was anti-American and who supported communists against their own country, like kerry did, become the leader of this great nation.
If he felt our soldiers were committing crimes that he also committed then he should have been held to account for the same exact behavior he was accusing them of.
posted on April 18, 2004 01:39:24 PM new
To you the term communist is some sort of boogie man. To many it is the system under which they live. I personally prefer living in a democracy which is what we live under theoretically. Kerry did not aid and abet the enemy, he spoke out regarding crimes which he witnessed and was forced to commit under orders (which he did). If the government at that time wished to charge him he obviously was ready to stand judgment as he freely admitted that he and others were participants.
If speaking the truth is anti-American then conversely I can only assume that lying is the true spirit of America. Thank you for clarifying that point for me.
posted on April 18, 2004 03:06:16 PM new
Compare any way you want-- Bush is a draft dodger and deserter and a liar. Cheney is a draft dodger and a liar. Kerry never went "missing" for 5 months while he was in the service like Bush did.
Linda- you have mentioned his "honorable" discharge before as if the army never gave them out to priveleged memebers. The fact that Bush got into a NG unit that everyone knew would never be sent to Vietnam and was over staffed before Bush was allowed in is disgraceful. Bush went "missing" for 5 months and nothing was done. Giving Bush an unearned honorable discharge should surprise no one.
When you have a commander-in-chief that is a liar and a draft dodger and a deserter-- you get messes like Iraq.
It is un-American, unpatriotic, and against our troops in the field, to support Bush and slander a true war hero like Kerry.
posted on April 18, 2004 03:14:37 PM newTalk about draft dodgers CLINTON Do I need to say more??????
Yeah, you need to say more, a lot more. Clinton was against the war and said he was against it. George Bush also said he was against the war and going to Vietnam.
BUT, the difference between Bush and Clinton is that Bill Clinton didn't have a wealthy connected Daddy to get him a slot in an overstaffed NG unit that everyone knew would never set foot in Vietnam, and you didn't even have to show up to for months at a time.
Clinton was honest about the issue, George Bush never has been.
Bush's lies have cost over 600 soldiers their lives and wounded thousands of others.
Anyone supporting Bush is a traitor to this great nation, and is against our troops.
