posted on April 30, 2004 07:26:16 AM new
this is the ulgy side of this invasion....especially when it is committed by corporate contractors with some corrupt military nazis..........so much for liberation....looks like a saddam run prison....no Geneva Convention rules here....
this picture they were forced to have sex
Use of private contractors in Iraqi jail interrogations highlighted by inquiry into abuse of prisoners
posted on April 30, 2004 07:47:11 AM new
Leave it to you skylite to be so quick to point out the terrible behavior of a few....but never speak about or show the good that the others have done.
The article I read on the Drudge Report said the 6-7 people involved in this un-acceptable behavior and their commanding officer have been arrested.
The Brig. Gen said denounced this behavior and admitted it puts a bad face on the 150,000 other soldiers in Iraq.
These actions are NOT being condoned nor excused. It is a shame that a few have put on our Armed Forces.
posted on April 30, 2004 11:09:05 AM new
Why not have the pictures posted? They are a result of what is going on Iraq. While there is no excuse for the behavior of these soldiers, the pictures should be made available. We have the right to know what is going on with the war - all the information, whether it is good or bad.
Impeach Bush
Marriage is a Human Right not a Heterosexual Privledge.
Bigotry and hate will not be tolerated.
posted on April 30, 2004 11:21:00 AM new
Amnesty: Iraqis Complain of Torture by U.S. Forces
BAGHDAD - Iraqis detained by U.S. troops have complained of torture and degrading treatment, Amnesty International said Wednesday.
There were also reports of troops shooting detainees, the London-based human rights watchdog said in a report based on interviews with former prisoners of the Americans across Iraq
Amnesty staff heard complaints that included prolonged sleep deprivation and detainees being forced to stay in painful positions or wear hoods over their heads for long periods.
"Such treatment would amount to 'torture and inhumane treatment' prohibited by the Fourth Geneva Convention and by international human rights law," Amnesty said.
U.S. military officials were not immediately available to comment on the report.
Amnesty staff gathered testimony from former detainees around Iraq and from relatives of some still being held.
The organization made several requests to visit detention centers but were denied access by U.S. forces that have struggled to impose law and order since the invasion which toppled Saddam Hussein in April.
"Detainees continue to report suffering extreme heat while housed in tents; insufficient water; inadequate washing facilities; open trenches for toilets; no change of clothes, even after two months' detention," Amnesty said.
Amnesty has said thousands are held in prisons run by U.S. troops. They include Abu Ghraib, one the most feared jails under Saddam, and Camp Cropper near Baghdad's airport.
The human rights group said it had received several reports of cases of detainees who have died in custody, "mostly as a result of shooting by members of the coalition forces."
Amnesty said 22-year-old Alaa Jassem was killed when soldiers fired on detainees during a riot on June 13 at Abu Ghraib. Demonstrators threw bricks and poles at the soldiers.
"According to eyewitnesses, Alaa Jassem was in a tent when he was shot. Seven other detainees were wounded," Amnesty said.
Other allegations reported by Amnesty included the case of Saadi al-Ubaydi on the morning of May 14, when two U.S. armed vehicles crashed through the stone wall surrounding his home.
"Several soldiers forced their way in and beat him with their rifle butts. He ran out of the house to get away from them. Soldiers shot him a few meters away and he died immediately," the report said, citing witnesses in Ramadi.
Many Iraqis complain troops use heavy-handed tactics that humiliate householders when conducting weapons searches.
"There continue to be many reports of members of the coalition forces engaging in house searches and damaging or destroying property without justification," Amnesty said.
"There are also numerous reports of confiscation of property, including large sums of money, upon arrest."
posted on April 30, 2004 11:25:10 AM new
I'm disgusted outraged and ashamed and I want their heads on a platter. The entire chain of command should be busted down to private and kicked out.
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
posted on April 30, 2004 11:49:19 AM newThe lefties must be delighted to see the US and our military disgraced like this.
What a totally ignorant statement that is! I don't consider myself a "leftie" but I'm sure that "lefties" love their country as much as anyone else, perhaps even more and they aren't pleased to see a few people from their country doing things like this.
I did see this on 60 Minutes II the other night but I didn't bring it to the boards because of the attitude of many here who say ignorant statements like that one.
Brig Gen Kimmet said: "This is wrong and reprehensible. But it is not representative of [US] soldiers over here."
He added: "We’re appalled. These are our fellow soldiers, they represent us, they wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down."
"If we can’t hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can’t ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
I agree that it's not representative of the US soldiers. But the world perception of this may be something else. It's very sad that it happened because aren't these the very things Saddam was accused of doing?
posted on April 30, 2004 12:02:20 PM new
These acts of sadism and cruelty constitute a blatant violation of the "UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment" and are war crimes as defined by Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of war prisoners.
Article 3 prohibits:
a. violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
b. taking hostages;
c. outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment
At the same time, the fact that US soldiers are employing methods similar to those used by the NAZIS in World War II is indicative of a deep-seated state of demoralization and degradation that the occupation has bred within the US military. Finding themselves in a hostile environment with the vast majority of Iraqis opposing the occupation, many American soldiers have come to see the country's entire population as the enemy. Fed lies about the colonial intervention in Iraq being part of a global "war on terrorism," some have also assumed a license to torture and humiliate their helpless captives.
Frederick, a Virginia prison guard, is charged with assaulting detainees, ordering prisoners to strike each other and an "indecent act" for observing one of the sexual abuse incidents. He insisted, however, that his actions were not those of a rogue soldier, but were sanctioned and encouraged by military intelligence and the CIA.
Along with other reservist jail guards, he was directed to physically and mentally "prepare" Iraqi detainees for interrogation. He said that dogs were also used as "intimidation factors" against prisoners.
One of Frederick's email messages said: "Military intelligence has encouraged and told us 'Great job.' They usually don't allow others to watch them interrogate. But since they like the way I run the prison, they have made an exception. We help getting them [detainees] to talk with the way we handle them.... We've had a very high rate with our style of getting them to break. They usually end up breaking within hours."
As these comments make clear, torture in US-run Iraqi prisons is an integral part of the illegal occupation. A systematic process of brutalization is being directed from the upper ranks.
Washington anticipated and prepared in advance for the war crimes now being committed against the Iraqi people. No criminal charges can be brought against a US soldier in Iraq because the puppet Iraqi Governing Council has given the American military a blanket amnesty from prosecution. Secondly, with the backing of Germany and a number of other countries, no US soldier or citizen can be prosecuted for war crimes in the International Criminal Court.
The "60 Minutes II" broadcast has provided only a partial glimpse of the crimes being carried out by US forces in Iraq and elsewhere. The conditions in Iraqi jails, where over 18,000 prisoners are being held, are replicated in a network of US-run concentration camps around the world. These include Guantanamo Bay, Diego Garcia, Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan. According to current estimates, the US is incarcerating over 25,000 detainees in these hellholes, in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
posted on April 30, 2004 12:03:55 PM newLeave it to you skylite to be so quick to point out the terrible behavior of a few....but never speak about or show the good that the others have done.
The same could be said about Baathists, Al Qaeda, Hamas, the PLO, Nazis, Shiites etc..
At some point you have to hold the whole culture accountable for this behavior. It spawns it and allows it.
posted on April 30, 2004 01:08:06 PM new
Only by bringing abuse such as this into the light of day can it be stopped. It is shameful that it was allowed to happen at all. And there are reports that this was not an isolated thing--that it is occuring at other places in Iraq.
There is no excuse for it--soldiers, even Reservists--are made well aware of the Geneva Convention. We find ourselves now with soldiers using the same excuse that was found to be no excuse at all at the Nuremburg Trials: "we were following orders."
And, no,I am not "happy" that this has happened. We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on April 30, 2004 01:29:48 PM new
reamond - The same could be said about Baathists, Al Qaeda, Hamas, the PLO, Nazis, Shiites etc..
uh...maybe I'm missing something here but please educate me as to what 'good' things say the Baathists are doing....or any of the others.
And if you're implying that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch...I don't agree at all. There never has been a time and I doubt there every will be when a few 'bad apples' won't be there to 'stain' all the good that 99.9% of the others do.
But I do agree....this is what the world will see...and this is how we will be judged by all who would believe this truly represents how our military really functions as a whole.
posted on April 30, 2004 03:42:03 PM new
You're missing only one thing Linda, the ability to see that our tactics are no better than theirs and effectively we have lowered ourselves to their standard.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
posted on April 30, 2004 04:34:40 PM new
and more abuse.........these are human beings, and if someone invaded north america and was treated like this, what would the people of north america do...what?????? like georgie bush said quote " if someone occupied my country i would be pissed off "
posted on April 30, 2004 05:49:19 PM newYou're missing only one thing Linda, the ability to see that our tactics are no better than theirs and effectively we have lowered ourselves to their standard.
Uh no, dave, you're wrong again. You'd be missing the FACT that our military does not condone/support/encourage/teach/etc. these types of actions. But the groups that reamond listed does. We don't teach our military hatred either.
posted on April 30, 2004 06:41:26 PM new
As bad as it is, it is not something that is condoned by the armed forces over all. Those people will be held accountable and will face a court martial for their actions.
Its unfortunate but you will find this kind of action by small groups of individuals in any kind of armed forces no matter what part of the world they're from.
posted on April 30, 2004 06:53:58 PM new
“So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here,” adds Kimmitt. “I'd say the same thing to the American people... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few."
posted on April 30, 2004 07:06:47 PM new
This is reprehensible conduct brought about by a few individuals, who will now be prisoners themselves....
We have people guarding prisoners who actually are not properly trained in that concept...
Yes this will be a huge black eye, but if we show the Iraqis that these people will be punished and switfly... we can over come this and continue on the path.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on April 30, 2004 07:41:34 PM new
Sadly this stuff goes on during every war. Kerry was right about the stuff that went down during vietnam. I have heard similar stories from WW2 vets as well. This kind of stuff will cause more hate and american death.
posted on April 30, 2004 08:47:12 PM new
I think that it represents a betrayal of the country and as such resembles treason. You are certainly right that it will cause more hate. In fact, this horrific act will inflame the entire world.
posted on April 30, 2004 10:32:02 PM new
::uh...maybe I'm missing something here but please educate me as to what 'good' things say the Baathists are doing....or any of the others.
And if you're implying that a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch...I don't agree at all. There never has been a time and I doubt there every will be when a few 'bad apples' won't be there to 'stain' all the good that 99.9% of the others do. ::
Linda you contradict yourself within the spance of a mere sentence. Baathists and Shiites are to Islam who Baptists and Lutheran are to Christianity. There are millions of good people that follow the two sects that have never done anything to anyone but because you have heard negative things about a few you have come to a point where you find it incredibly to think that even a few could be ordinary everyday people. I'd say that your statements show rather convincingly that it is possible for a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch. At least in the public perception.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on April 30, 2004 10:44:49 PM newWho taught it to them? Mothers like you.
No, AGAIN, you'd be wrong. I never taught my children to hate.
And I'm sure your mother worked hard to raised you not to be the rude, condescending person you are on a continual basis. I'm sure she did her best to raise you to be civil, even while disagreeing. She just doesn't have any control over your actions as an adult. She set the foundation....only YOU have control over your actions.
I bet that she expected by the time you had grown up, you might be able to control your hatred of those who hold opposing views. Obviously you haven't.
posted on April 30, 2004 11:07:43 PM new
You confuse hatred for disdain. These are not the children of hard working liberal minded people commiting these atrocities. These are the offspring of the right. Congratulations you have done a great job.
posted on April 30, 2004 11:23:25 PM new
fenix - but because you have heard negative things about a few you have come to a point where you find it incredibly to think that even a few could be ordinary everyday people.
About a few? Are you referring to the peaceful Baathists, Al Qaeda, Hamas, the PLO, Nazis, Shiites etc?.. I don't read much about them....all we hear is the terror they cause for many different countries. And the fact that they're proud of it. They celebrate in the streets when our soldiers die....when 9-11 happened. Those peaceful Muslims?
And while I do acknowledge that not 100% of any people are bad....when making a comparison between 'them' and 'us'.....
I see raising them raising their children to want all Jews and infidels killed because their religion calls for it.
I see them not allowing differences of religion or politics....you agree with them...or else.
But most importantly ...related to this thread....I don't see them in large numbers condemning the behavior when their 'leaders/terrorists' murder. No they make special posters honoring those 'heros' to their cause.
So...in my mind's eye....you're comparing apples to oranges...when you use the example you have about rotten apples in both groups being the same. They're not at all the same.
posted on April 30, 2004 11:29:46 PM new
I'm sure you have proof to offer for that false statement. I doubt you have a log of how each person serving in our Armed Forces is registered.
posted on May 1, 2004 12:32:09 AM new
::About a few? Are you referring to the peaceful Baathists, Al Qaeda, Hamas, the PLO, Nazis, Shiites etc?.. I don't read much about them....all we hear is the terror they cause for many different countries. And the fact that they're proud of it. They celebrate in the streets when our soldiers die....when 9-11 happened. Those peaceful Muslims? ::
First of Linda - I said not a damn thing about the PLO, Nazis, AQ or Hamas, I was referring to Baathists and Shiites. and yes, when we decide to address the two groups I was referring to I am referring to the peaceful ones. People that live every day lives with families and jobs like everyone else. Remember Linda - those are the people we were supposed to be saving from the evil empire of Saddam.
::;And while I do acknowledge that not 100% of any people are bad....when making a comparison between 'them' and 'us'.....::
When did I say them and us. I pointed out that you have judged an entire population of people to be bad because of the negative things you have heard about a small percentage of the whole.
::I see raising them raising their children to want all Jews and infidels killed because their religion calls for it. ::
Oh good lord- Do you actually know anything about Islam that you have not read from the conservative press? Have you ever considered the possibility that Muslims have adapted their beliefs to modern society in the same way that Christians have adapted theirs? According to your beliefs my father and step mother should not have lived out the first of their ten years in Saudi Arabia yet they lived and worked peacefully beside Muslim people every day as do thousands of other European contractors living and working in Arab nations. When you consider those realities, don't you see a major flaw in your perceptions?
::I see them not allowing differences of religion or politics....you agree with them...or else.::
Then you are seeing what hatred is teaching and not the reality of people. Do you honestly believe that 20% of the worlds population has a "agree with me or die" mentality?
::So...in my mind's eye....you're comparing apples to oranges...when you use the example you have about rotten apples in both groups being the same. They're not at all the same.::
Of course not, because THEY are not Christian republicans. What I don't understand is how you can lump them all as evil now considering all the arguing you have done about how our war in Iraq was just because it saved them all from the evils of Saddam. Come on Linda, you need to make up your mind, which one is it? Are they for the most part good and normal people deserving of an opportunity to live under the umbrella of democracy or are they all extremists who wish for nothing but the destruction of us all and if so, why is it that you support us being there? Why do want freedom for millions of people you believe to be so inherently evil?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
