posted on May 19, 2004 02:25:36 PM new
Could somebody please educate me on this issue.
I have never heard anyone bring forth a viable argument. I really like following current events and am sort of a news hound. I have watched commentator TV such as Larry King and his guests, the reports on the major news networks, read the print media and still nothing.
posted on May 19, 2004 04:22:39 PM new
The ONLY potential detriment I see to this is, same sex straights marrying for health insurance, or life benefits. Then it will make marriage a sham.
posted on May 19, 2004 05:00:40 PM newThe ONLY potential detriment I see to this is, same sex straights marrying for health insurance, or life benefits. Then it will make marriage a sham.
Unlike those heterosexuals who marry for money, marry to become citizens, marry for the fun of it (Brittany), etc. Doesn't matter if you're gay or straight anymore. There are surely more sham straight marriages than gay ones. Remember, marriage is new to them. We've had centuries to get it wrong.
posted on May 19, 2004 06:34:19 PM new
Near, I think we will hear of many more. Sounds like a some dumb movie plot thats could now be a very plausible reality...we are such a nation of copycat'ers....and opportunists. If theres a loop hole somebody is taking advantage of it!
Cheryl, lol...its true what you say. BUT, and this is a tiny but, but, ok - at least the same sex straights have a better build-in tolerance for each other to live amicably. They dont have to put up with the opposite sex mess like conventional marriages do. (sham or otherwise )
The only viable argument I have heard on this subject is that it has been tradition for thousands of years...While that may be true, my response is traditions are not cast in stone and can be broken or changed.
My view on this subject is that the straights are scared. They dont want to blame themselves for the problems associated with marriage - higher divorce rates, lower marriage rates, more children out of wedlock, and more one parent "families". It is easier for them to say gay marriages will destroy the sanctity of marrige. If they take a closer look, it has been destroyed by divorce and sham celebrity weddings.
posted on May 19, 2004 08:16:16 PM new
The real joke will be when a gay couple gets a divorce - I bet it becomes front page stuff. Think of all the hypocritical finger pointing that'll be going on... should be fun!
I agree that when the first gay divorce happens it will gain lots of media coverage. Of course, many of the right wingers will start a smear campaign to make it worse than it really is. Maybe we can all watch it on Divorce Court on TV.
logan,
I think that the opponents of gay marriage want to keep it between "one man and one woman". What a laugh! A friend of mine that is gay introduced to me to a friend of his. His friend is divorced and has 5 children. The youngest one is 15 years old, and the oldest one was about 23 years old, (if my memory serves me correctly). For all of the years of his marriage, he received all the benefits that all couples get. After we left, my friend told me that his friend was GAY. Yes GAY! I guess it would be fair to say that a gay man can legally get married, so as long as he marries a woman. I would think that it would be safe to say that he is not the only gay man to be married to a woman.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on May 20, 2004 06:21:41 AM new
Maybe if religious leaders and politicians want to ban something they should start with divorce. This would clean up the sanctity of marriage. If they don't want to start here, then they can start criticizing the reality shows like the "Bachelor" or "Married by America". How do these shows promote the sanctity of marriage? They don't. How many marriage related reality shows have there been and how many people actually have gotten married from them? All these shows do is tell the younger generation marriage is a joke.
Perhaps if people are only allowed to marry once in their lifetime, they will not rush into marriage. You get married you stayed married until you or your partner die. If you don't want to stay with that person, that is fine, you don't have to live together, but you can not file for divorce.
posted on May 20, 2004 10:23:45 AM new
One question what does the right wingers have to do with gay marriages or a demise of a gay marriage. Did I read that wrong...
I am sure if this does happen all news print will make a story about it.
Gay marriages don't bother me as long as they don't bother me. I have never turned around to watch to same sex people kiss, hold hands. It is their business.
The only marriages we hear about are the Hollywood moviestars that jump from marriage to marriage. That is a sham. One day they are in love with one person, have children, divorce and fall in love again and repeat the process. I don't support any of them as I never go to movies or watch movies on TV. My boycott will never make a difference but I feel better.
posted on May 20, 2004 01:43:13 PM new
Yeager: For all of the years of his marriage, he received all the benefits that all couples get. After we left, my friend told me that his friend was GAY. Yes GAY! I guess it would be fair to say that a gay man can legally get married, so as long as he marries a woman. I would think that it would be safe to say that he is not the only gay man to be married to a woman.
Have I interpreted your statement correctly?
This guy married a women, knew he was gay and knew he was gay going into the marriage?
If that is true, I would love to know why he did it.
posted on May 20, 2004 05:08:02 PM new
Many gays get married for camoflage, if they want to stay in the closet.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
Yes, he was married to a woman. From what I understand, he was knew he was gay going into marriage. I really didn't talk to him that much. I think that bunni is correct in her statement that many gays get married to camouflage themselves.
The problem with this is that if they are every exposed or come out of the closet on their own free will, there may be huge emotional damage to the wife or the kids. In the case the I mentioned, if my memory serves me correctly, I recall him saying 2 of his kids will have nothing to do with him, and want no emotional contact with him. This is sad for both the kids to be so hurt and embarrassed by the father, and for the father to loose the love of his children.
A friend of mine told me that one of her female co-workers is a lesbian. The both work in a convenience store and I have had a chance to meet her from the store. She seems to be a stable person in every visible way. The lesbian was married and divorced. She and her ex husband do not have a good post divorce relationship, and he does everything to make her life miserable. The ex husband started to tell everyone that she was a lesbian, and who pays the price for that? The 9 year old boy at school. It's pretty sad.
There are so many people that say gay people "choose" to be gay. I don't know how they could even think that, with situation like this.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
Thanks for clearing that up. Like you, I also knew two different guys that were married and came out. The first guy was in his 50's and had 2 or 3 kids that were in their teens. The kids didn't have a problem with his coming out but the wife took things hard after the divorce.
The second guy was in his 30's and three younger kids - the oldest being 6 or so. The wife didn't take it well in this case either. I am not sure what happened with the kids as I lost contact with the guy.
As you said, if there are kids involved they seem to be the ones that end up getting hurt the most especially if they are young and do not understand.
I think these things happen because gays and lesbians felt "forced by society" to enter a marriage because it was more acceptable than living in sin as a gay man or woman. This was probably more the case in the 60's and 70's than it is today, but it is still a shame that people have to hide who they are just to be accepted by society.
Wake up and smell the coffee! Who is against gay people having the right to marry?
There are many conservative political and religious figures that are working to deny these Americans something they want.
Bush, Jerry Falwell (what a nut), Pat Robertson of the 700 club, Jack Van Impe, (what a real nut case), Jesse Helms, conservative lawmaker from SC, and the Pope, (who can hardly control his own body function) just to name a few. You can include ANYONE who is a public figure and speaks against the gay marriage issue.
It's also pretty interesting that this thread has been going for 24 hours now, and nobody of all the people that read these threads has come for with an answer to the question, How does gay marriage hurt society? There might be some that quote the bible and say .........., but that is only a quote from the bible and doesn't answer the real question.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
The question was, How does gay marriage hurt society?
Nobody, including YOU has come up with an answer for the simple question.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on May 20, 2004 08:25:29 PM new
Other FACTS:
taken from CBS 1-14-04
Data from a recent CBS News/New York Times poll suggest the president faces little risk of political fallout as a result of his proposed marriage initiative. In fact, many Americans would go even further.
Six in ten oppose a law legalizing gay marriage, and 55 percent favor a constitutional amendment limiting marriage to a man and a women.
Much statistical evidence suggests children of married parents are more financially secure and emotionally healthy.
Democrats as well as Republicans have supported efforts to increase marriage among low-income people, including the 1996 welfare reform law and moves to eliminate a so-called "marriage penalty" from the federal tax code.
----------------------
And higher numbers can be found on polls from less 'left' leaning sources.
The question was, How does gay marriage hurt society?
It was not about recent CBS News/New York Times poll, nor was it about Six in ten oppose a law legalizing gay marriage, nor was it about Much statistical evidence suggests......
The question was and still is, How does gay marriage hurt society?
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on May 20, 2004 10:00:41 PM new
LOL - on "the question was".....
you ALSO asked ANOTHER question - which is what I answered.
I've already explained why I'm not going to go through all that again....and I'll add one addition reason...
....that being you say things that aren't true.....you won't acknowledge that BOTH President Bush and Sen. kerry hold the SAME position on this issue....both would support gay civil unions....but DON'T support gay marriages.
Then you go on about how it's ONLY those on the 'right' who oppose gay marriages when there's proof that's just not true. There are many democrats who also oppose gay marriages. I've also given you other FACTS....that 38 states have voted they want the definition of marrige to be 'one man and one woman'....but you ignore that too.
I'm not foolish enough to think that if I wasted my time again....giving you the reasons I've given before that it would make one bit of difference.....because you won't even acknowledge the other TRUTHS.
I haven't been on this board for awhile and have just returned. Can you go over the reasons that you sited in the past. Just for me, please.
Ann Richard, former governor of Texas, on Larry King. When ask about gay marriage, in her southern accent said......
"I don't know why anyone would give a damn of those people wanted to get marry".
Linda, I am also convinced that you like to cover the issue at hand by coating it with another topic and gently avoiding the true answer to any question.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
I've already explained why I'm not going to go through all that again
You seem to be good at holding your position except when it comes to providing information on this topic. Did you forget what this information was, or is it that there wasn't any in the first place?
A couple more questions. If a married gay couple moved onto your block, would that effect the rest of the people in the block?
If a married gay couple moved somewhere into your city, would that effect the rest of the people in your city?
If a married gay couple moved somewhere into your state, would that effect the rest of the people in your state.
In case your fail to answer these 3 questions, I will for you. NO, NO and NO.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on May 21, 2004 06:26:36 AM new
Linda: Much statistical evidence suggests children of married parents are more financially secure and emotionally healthy.
What this statement really means is children of married straight parents are more financially secure and emotionally healthy.
I guess two men or two women can't provide for a child the same way a man and woman can.
Studies have shown children raised by gay parents are no better off/worse than children raised by straight parents.
posted on May 21, 2004 07:11:59 AM new
logansdad - Here's a link that shows the vast difference between gay couples in a relationship - compared to Hetersexual couples.
As I've said before....gay marriage is only going to FURTHER destroy the institution of marriage and family.
There are many important differences in their relationships.
And I did forget to mention, to all those who so oppose, make fun of and belittle this President for his religious beliefs influencing/being a part of his decision making process......that I didn't hear you all complaining about the same thing when Dean made the comment HE did the same thing in making his decision to support gay civil unions, while NOT supporting gay marriage.
John Edwards also opposed gay marriage.....so many democratic leaders do....it's NOT just the 'right wing' ....although that is how the left leaning press continually shows it.
posted on May 21, 2004 09:26:56 AM new
Linda - the article your linked to is a load of malarkey.
On the contrary, the evidence indicates that "committed" homosexual relationships are radically different from married couples in several key respects:
· relationship duration
You can not compare a married relationship duration to an relationship that offeres no possibility of marriage. It also ignores the fact that prior to the "liberation" of women in the 1970s, women were trapped in relationships due to economic and social reasons.
· monogamy vs. promiscuity
Again, you can not make this comparison. One thing, homosexuals are far more likely to admit promiscuity in a relationship than hetros.
· relationship commitment
Same as above.
· number of children being raised
This stat is irrelevant to the argument.
· health risks
This comparison is ridiculous. It fails to consider the health risks of child birth and seems to assume that hetro couples do not have anal sex.
· rates of intimate partner violence
This is another false comparison. Wives are notorious for not reporting violence in the marriage.
The only conclusions we may draw from the worthless claims is that homosexuals can be more honest in surveys that hetros, and that the author has an axe to grind in torturing reason.
posted on May 21, 2004 10:44:54 AM new
Linda says,
As I've said before....gay marriage is only going to FURTHER destroy the institution of marriage and family.
There are many important differences in their relationships.
You use the word FURTHER. What was the original cause to destroy marriage and family? I am thinking that you and your people are believing that if gay marriage is defeated, then middle America will revert to Mayfield USA, with Ward and June Cleaver. This is simply not so. The only thing that will happen is that your people will have been successful in denying a segment of American society an improvement in their lives. That's all.
The institution of marriage WILL NOT be repaired or reclaimed by anyone. Women contintually work for social equally in the job market, as they should. With this, they will have FREEDOM to pursue their lives as they wish. This includes marrying who, and when they want to, and for what ever reason they want to. They will also have the right to divorce when they want to. I am very much pro right for women too. I believe the very first thing a young woman should after graduating from high school is go to college so she can become educated and NOT have to be stuck in a rotten marriage. Get a job, and get out! BTW, I am male.
Also, any one reading the information on your link must understand that the organization that constructed the website is only going to use only the information they feel will further their cause. It is slanted at the very least. It doesn't show the many gay and lesbian couples that have been together for decades. It doesn't show how they have devoted their lives to each other or anything of that nature. It only shows the negative aspect of gay people. As with gay people, as in any other group, there are good and bad.
If you and these so called pro families wanted to really do some good, they should work to eliminate such things as crime and hunger in our society, instead of trying to prevent a certain group of people from obtaining their goals. I think that most families would rather feel safe in their homes, rather than worrying about gay marriage.
On the other side of the coin, there is this website where you can read about gay and lesbian FAMILIES. Linda, you do understand that there is two sides to every story, right?
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on May 21, 2004 11:20:41 AM new
Me and MY PEOPLE???
Would MY people include john kerry, John Edwards, Howard Dean and all the other 'lefties' than along with the 'righties' support the traditional term of 'marriage' staying just the was it has always been. Would MY people be the majority of American's who oppose gay marriage, some who also oppose civil union?
It's not I that stand with the minority on this issue.
Told you no matter what information I'd provide....it wouldn't made one tiny bit of difference.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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