kiara
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posted on May 30, 2004 01:20:08 PM new
Nero, you seem to not understand and I'm not trying to be unreasonable here.
I did not write the article, it was a news story that was written yesterday because of Memorial Day. I brought it to the board because I wanted people to be aware of the veterans who do not have a good life and they seem to have been forgotten and I wanted people to remember them also as some have died on the streets.
You may consider it bullsh!t and think I have a secret agenda (like when you stupidly thought I was sucking pictures of other people's ebay rooms into my computer) but you're way off base once again.
And when I said "idle chat" I meant talking about little details of my everyday life as opposed to current affairs.
Now please sit back and take a deep breath and really think about things before you start attacking again.
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fenix03
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posted on May 30, 2004 01:20:24 PM new
Nero - what the hell are you talking about?
There is a big difference between being negative and accepting reality even when it is negative. It wuld help if you and others could learn that. If you don't like the topic then leave but don't try to sugar coat and whitewash it just because it offends you.
I think you might be the one that needs un-idle yourself. You seem to be wound a bit tight today.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on May 30, 2004 01:25 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on May 30, 2004 01:37:20 PM new
Libra,
I don't leave here because I'm upset or afraid that I can't respond to the right wing stupidity that abounds here. Your previous comment is so dumb that it doesn't warrant a reply.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on May 30, 2004 01:42 PM ]
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NEROTER12
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posted on May 30, 2004 02:51:02 PM new
why yes fenix perhaps if I sit and watch 300 hours of video I will have a much better grip on reality just like you. I might even rehash an old westwing script on a thread and pass it off as my own idea. 
Kiara, I said what I said and I meant it. I am well aware you didnt write the article but seems me to you seek out things to muck a memorial for those it means something to. Perhaps when you ever post something positive to these boards I will change my mind, but since its my own stupid opinion it shouldnt bother you in the least.
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Helenjw
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posted on May 30, 2004 03:10:56 PM new
I think that it's most appropriate to discuss Veteran's issues on Memorial Day. They deserve it!!!
If you want a thread to memorialize the war dead, start another thread. If you have a problem facing reality issues, just read whatever interests you.
Helen
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fenix03
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posted on May 30, 2004 03:18:38 PM new
Wow - someone obviously forgot to take their meds today. Nero - you don't happen to crochet do you?
;;but since its my own stupid opinion.::
You said it sweetheart. Not me.
I am curious as to when it was you feel I was channeling Sorkin though.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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kiara
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posted on May 30, 2004 03:22:25 PM new
NEROTER12, I think your Memorial day was mucked up before you even tried to use this thread as an excuse for it being so.
As I've said for years, I will post what I want and where I want and everyone is free to read it or not. Just so you know, I've reached a point in my life where petty stuff like this doesn't bother me at all.
No one is making you stay here, in fact back on page one you said you were leaving this thread but it looks like you are using it as the perfect excuse in your own mind for your current unhappiness over the day because you're trying so hard to turn it into something it was never intended to be.
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Libra63
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posted on May 30, 2004 04:24:12 PM new
Lets not make this a Bush thing. Memorial Day is a day of observense for our War Veterans whether alive, dead, homeless or what. Please do not take this away from them. War has been since the beginning of time. War is like the threads in the round table. This is not a Bush Holiday. Every thread that starts out good always ends in someone bashing Bush.
Most agree that there are many Homeless Veterans that need attention but if they don't want that attention what is the solution.
Memorial Day was not mucked up until we hit the conflicts. There were very few homeless WWII veterans. They are proud of the Country they served. Wives and Mothers stood by the family that went to war Where are the families of the homeless? Not until Vietnam did the problems begin. Some must have families. Even the Korean Vets haven't caused many problems. But now it becomes everyone's problem. It's something that has to be done to help them. We aren't going to solve it here.
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fenix03
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posted on May 30, 2004 04:26:56 PM new
Am I the only person that finds it ironic that we are being chastised for our failure to properly observe the Nero Approved Memorial Day Observation Regulations when in fact Memorial Day is not until tomorrow?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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Helenjw
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posted on May 30, 2004 04:41:05 PM new
This is too funny...
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skylite
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posted on May 30, 2004 04:47:20 PM new
Libra63 said
" Most agree that there are many Homeless Veterans that need attention but if they don't want that attention what is the solution "
here is some solution, be there for those homeless veterans when they need you to be there, a lot of the times all some need is someone to listen to their feelings
another way to help is finacially, take them to dinner or if they need alochol, get them some, because it does ease some of the pain, and some are not interested in the morals of whether booze is good for them or not,
the last thing homeless vets need is preaching....
just be there, they need friends....some are really gone and have delusions and some have parnoid delusions, this comes from the expierences they went through during combat...
it does not hurt to give money either, but bottom line most need a reason to go on...so be a friend to homeless vets....
some are proud and will refuse charity, so, do what you would do with children, make them earn the money, either way just be there, all they need is help with thier tramatic experiences....
some just do not know how to handle peace time world after staring death in the face ...
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Helenjw
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posted on May 30, 2004 05:05:03 PM new
And don't vote for Bush because he plans to cut the Veteran's budget.
Bush Plan Eyes Cuts for Schools, Veterans
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on May 30, 2004 05:51:09 PM new
Canada has concentrated more on peacekeeping than war
Not to mention clubbing baby harp seals. Instead of fighting bad guys, Canadians take their frustrations out on baby seals!
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
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fenix03
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posted on May 30, 2004 05:56:45 PM new
This would be a perfect example of why I often wonder if EAG is even of legal voting age.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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kiara
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posted on May 30, 2004 06:36:45 PM new
Thanks skylite. I understand what you're saying and Memorial day isn't just about flags and parades for a few days each year.
Libra, there were family problems with WWII Veterans but it wasn't always talked about openly. They were very young when they went to war and there was no counselling when they returned. Many of these men suffered all their lives from nightmares or anger which they had trouble controlling and even now if they are in nursing or care homes they suffer from it. Why do you think they still get so emotional during the Veteran's ceremonies? They remember all their lost friends just like it happened to them yesterday and you can see it on their faces.
I find this too funny also, Helen.
Bear starts a thread about honoring the Veterans and it gets two replies. This thread gets them pissing and moaning about what should and shouldn't be said yet they didn't bother to say it on the other thread. Why is that?
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Libra63
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posted on May 30, 2004 06:41:32 PM new
Skylite-I can't believe I am answering you - How many of these 33% homeless have families. Where are they? Surely some of them have families. That is first and foremost. Next where do they pick their checks up? If at the veterans center there must be help there. How do we help people that don't want it, and since we don't communicate with them we don't know. The city I live in does help in ways they can. It seems like more homeless are from the Vietnam era. Why wasn't there homeless from WWII? I can answer that because their families cared about them. We are in an age where nobody cares about anything but themselves. I must include my self in that statement. I was never a veteran but I saw 1 war and now 3 conflicts. During the war families stuck together, now everyone is on their own which is sad. I hope you can understand that. Who should be in charge of the homeless? Surly not the government but someone has to. I am not trying to be hostile just asking questions that I think need to be answered.
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davebraun
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posted on May 30, 2004 06:46:39 PM new
In my hometown there were homeless from the WW2 era while I was growing up. They congregated in the Bowerey and we referred to them as Bums. As 75% of the Vets from the era are deceased it is a no brainer as to why the homeless are from the Vietnam era and to some degree a few Korean War Vets.
In time a percentage of Iraq, Afghanastan Vets will be joining them.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
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Linda_K
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posted on May 30, 2004 06:46:40 PM new
On the don't vote for Bush...he's going to cut Veteran benefits.... no....that's done when the dems are in control. Benefits have not been cut for Veterans under the Bush administration.
False Statement About Veterans
At one point the ad shows Bush saying we must provide the best care for veterans, then shows a graphic saying: 200,000 veterans cut off from health system? It cites the Department of Veterans Affairs as the source.
But the statement is false.
In fact, no veterans have had benefits cut off under Bush. [b]Quite the contrary, as we've previously noted , spending for veterans benefits has grown 27% since Bush took office, and the ranks of veterans drawing benefits have increased by more than 1 million.
The Kerry campaign says the ad is referring to a proposal in Bush's budget for fiscal year 2005, which begins Oct. 1. But that proposal has not been enacted and, in fact, a similar proposal was rejected last year. Congress is expected to reject it again this year.
Furthermore, the proposal would not cut off veterans as the ad says. It would instead raise the cost of the VA's popular prescription drug benefit. The VA estimates this would cause an estimated 200,000 veterans to leave the system -- voluntarily -- because they have better benefits from other sources. The drug benefit currently requires no payment to gain coverage, and a $7 co-payment for each one-month supply of prescription drugs. The Bush administration proposes to charge $21 per month for coverage, and to raise the co-payment to $15 per one-month supply of prescription medications.
-----------------------
neroter - Sorry you had to face this much wrath. It doesn't matter to them....if it's a chance to blame American for something....they'll do it....no matter how inappropriate the timing. 
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on May 30, 2004 06:51 PM ]
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kiara
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posted on May 30, 2004 07:00:36 PM new
Libra, their families still may be out there but they weren't prepared to take care of a soldier who returned from war physically disabled or with mental problems or someone on alcohol or drugs. It can take its toll on even the most dedicated person and the average person may find it hard to cope with emotionally and monetarily. Some may not realize how hard it is to care for someone who needs help and still hold down a full-time job themselves each day. I've had to do it and it wasn't easy.
Linda, quit trying to turn this conversation into a pity party for yourself and Nero. There is no wrath coming from me or skylite or fenix or helen or kraft or dave or anyone else here that sees the reality of life and you know that so quit being silly, you are so transparent.
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Helenjw
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posted on May 30, 2004 07:19:31 PM new
Linda, What a pitiful widdle blue face.
And cut out the lies.
The article states that the budget will be cut by Bush IF he is elected as follows...
-domestic security at the Homeland Security Department and other agencies would go from $30.6 billion in 2005 to $29.6 billion in 2006, a 3 percent drop.
-the Education Department would go from $57.3 billion in 2005 to $55.9 billion in 2006, 2.4 percent less.
-the Veterans Affairs Department would fall 3.4 percent from $29.7 billion in 2005 to $28.7 billion.
-the Environmental Protection Agency would drop from $7.8 billion in 2005 to $7.6 billion, or 2.6 percent.
-the National Institutes of Health, which finances biomedical research and had its budget doubled over a recent five-year period, would fall from $28.6 billion to $28 billion, or 2.1 percent.
-the Interior Department would fall 1.9 percent from $10.8 billion in 2005 to $10.6 billion.
And as I indicated before,
-the Defense Department would grow 5.2 percent to $422.7 billion in 2006, and the Justice Department would increase 4.3 percent to $19.5 billion in 2006.
The Bush Administration chronically under-funds VA health care. Instead of adding sufficient resources to a system desperately in need of them, President Bush has frozen whole classes out of the VA system. By the Bush Administration’s own estimate, their policies will exclude approximately 500,000 veterans from the VA healthcare system by 2005. President Bush also proposed increasing fees and co-payments in an effort to shift the burden for care onto the backs of veterans and drive an additional million veterans from the system."
Under George Bush, 280,000 veterans await their disability rating. In addition, some 108,000 other veterans are waiting to hear back on appeals of rating decisions.
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Libra63
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posted on May 30, 2004 07:24:55 PM new
Kiara-I am not prepared to help them either. I have family that needs my help and I am there for them and their families should be there for them. I do what I can but my family comes first as it should. I have elected to live in the same town as my daughter and son-in-law, so that I can be there so they can live the quality of life that I had. I had no one around when I had my daughter, no help and no one to depend on except my Husband who worked 2nd shift. I am there for her. I could have elected to move south where the weather is warm and my arthritis would be better but this is my choice. Family comes first as should be with those homeless men and women. If no families aren't available then there are the shelters and the womens shelters for them to go to where they do get help.
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fenix03
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posted on May 30, 2004 07:29:53 PM new
Hey Linda - I am a big girl and I don't need people appologizing for me speaking my mind on Sunday afternoon in a free society. I certainly don't need someone calling me un-american because I actually give a damn about those that fought for this country and then fell thru the cracks.
Where is your appology to me for having a perfectly reseanable discussion turned into a series of personal attacks... come on Linda... If you are going to be giving out warm fuzzies, don't you think they should be non-partisan ones?
Libra - next time you stop off and talk to those homelss veterans that you give a quarter to for their lowers, why don't offer to buy them a cup of coffee and find out the what the real situation is. Try living on the street for a while and see how long it is before you are robbed of everything including identification and then run up to DMV to see how easy it is to replace that ID, especially without a legal address since DMV does not allow the use of mail drops on ID. Now that you have clearly establiished your lack of proof of identity, check out how many of those public services you able to get.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on May 30, 2004 07:43:19 PM new
The veterans are homeless because people enable them to stay homeless. People feel sorry for them and give them money which the homeless use to support their addictions. Is that irony or what?
It's a lot easier for them to beg for money and continue buying drugs/alcohol than it is to clean up and get back on their feet.
Cut off their drug/alcohol money and they will seek help from social services faster than you can say 'urban camper.'
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
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kraftdinner
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posted on May 30, 2004 08:11:12 PM new
That's really kind of you to assume that homeless vets are alcoholics or drug addicts, EAG.
[ edited by kraftdinner on May 30, 2004 08:15 PM ]
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on May 30, 2004 08:21:17 PM new
Earth to Kraft...Earth to Kraft...
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
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kraftdinner
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posted on May 30, 2004 08:32:07 PM new
As if you're from Earth, EAG.
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Linda_K
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posted on May 30, 2004 08:56:28 PM new
yes helen....and what I'm saying is that the kerry and the dems have lied about this President's funding for our Vet in his first three years in office. As my proof showed.
Then kerry's add said he was proposing cuts again in his 2005 budget....which hasn't happened ....which my proof shows
and now the dems are saying the same thing about the 2006 budget....which hasn't happened.
Keep trying to convince American that Bush is cutting funding for our military...it only shows your side for what it is doing....lying and distorting the facts.
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AGAIN for those who missed it - KD.
Taken from the Department of Veteran Affairs - updated 5-04
But similar to the general population of homeless adult males, about 45% of homeless veterans suffer from mental illness and (with considerable overlap) slightly more than 70% suffer from alcohol or other drug abuse problems.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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Helenjw
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posted on May 30, 2004 09:26:13 PM new
Linda,
I find it difficult to believe that you are so dense that you can read my comment twice and still insist that the tax cut hasn't happened yet. OF COURSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET. IT IS SCHEDULED TO HAPPEN AFTER THE ELECTION IF AND ONLY IF GEORGE BUSH IS ELECTED PRESIDENT.
Read the article before you try to refute this information again.
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Libra63
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posted on May 30, 2004 09:33:56 PM new
Fennix I am trying hard not to offend you so I try not to post to what you might say. As I said I have no time as I give my time to my FAMILY as the families of the veterans need to do that. That is what families do. You insult and think nothing about it. My FAMILY as I said comes first the rest of the time is for me. Maybe in your eyes it is not the american way but working for 45 years and being on call for 35 of them it is time I do something for myself. I donate so that some organization can help them. They are much more intuned with their needs than I am. I don't like posters telling others that they need medication as that is NONE of your business. You seem to tell everyone this and maybe it is YOU that needs the medication. Get off my back. In my estimation you are rude and you don't care what you say or who it will offend. Someday it will bite you in the butt and then maybe you will change but I doubt it.
Your sig file tells it all - Do you have common sense?
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Helenjw
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posted on May 30, 2004 09:42:55 PM new
Bush orders plans to cut veterans, education funds
Veterans programs cut $900 million
Bush budget plan eyes cuts for schools, veterans
If Re-Elected Bush Plans to Cut Spending for Education, Veterans
Bush Veterans Cuts Slated After Election
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