posted on June 7, 2004 08:35:40 AM new
Yeager, in response to your original question "How does gay marriage hurt society?" Nobody has shown how gay marriages will hurt society. All of the posts are about how gay marriages are wrong. The few posts that have said gay marriages will bring down the morals of society offer no positive proof showing the connection. All that has been offered is speculation.
If the straight community values their sacred instution of marriage as it stands today they need to speak up and realize what is actually destroying it - not gay marriages, but rather divorce and too many people rushing into a life-long commitment they are not ready for.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
In the words from Cher:
We’re gonna love one another ’til morning comes
Sweet salvation for what we’ve done
Give up resisting one by one one by one
I know it! Nobody really has brought up anything with any real meaning. Linda sounds like a broken record saying, "Kerry still does not support gay marriage, followed by her trademark smile.
She bring up ridiculous web pages from the fanatical religious right with all their rhetoric. What could anyone except from that group. She has also failed to answer the simple question that I have asked her several times, "did you choose to be straight?" She is the most vocal poster against gay marriage and still can't or won't answer that question. It says alot about her.
Libra,
I see that you failed to answered my questions to you about gay couples making arraignments with the government. I am thinking that you now see that your comments were made without thinking.
You need to understand that I as a free American can start any type of thread that I would like to. I have the right to speak my mind on any issue. If you don't believe me, ask Linda, she will tell you this too.
Again, if you don't like this thread, don't click on it. This issue will never go away until that segment of American society gets the rights they deserve.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on June 8, 2004 07:31:40 AM new
It's not a matter of civil rights, it's a special right the homosexual's are trying to usurp from the foundations of society. As I have said before, it will open doors better left closed-and it will further lead to the deterioration of the family unit. We are reaping what those wonderful 60's have sewn; a society of me-ism.
How will homosexual "marriage" benefit society? Give me proof that it will, that it will not lead to the further deterioration of the foundations of the family and society.
You will not be able to-and do you know why? Because in the few countries where this wonderful social experiment has happened, things have not turned out as the liberal elites have envisioned it.
When the supposed rights of a tiny minority threaten to trample the morals and foundations of a great nation, it's time to put a stop to it.
And I already know that logansdad and yeager are going to call me all kinds of stuff, but facts are facts: you wish to impose a special right, force it upon this society, and people (despite the showing on this board may indicate) will oppose it to the bitter end.
In Christ,
Rick
Genesis 1:1
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
Let's say gay marriages are legal. If 3% of the population is gay like Linda suggest, you would estimate 1/2 of the gay population would want to get married (rough estimate). I don't think 1.5% could make a significant impact in the marriage or divorce rates in this country. However, I know the gay population will be blamed for any type of decline in marriage rates or increase in divorce rates.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on June 8, 2004 10:58:53 AM newWhen the supposed rights of a tiny minority threaten to trample the morals and foundations of a great nation, it's time to put a stop to it.
Of course, given the agenda that author you cited as 'proof' of your views, that hardly surprises me.
Again, how will two men or two women choosing to marry, getting legal protection (including Social Security survivorship rights), change your world?
So, because one is a member of a 'tiny minority,' that means that you shouldn't have equal rights?
I am Pagan, and a member of a 'tiny minority' in this country. Should the government stop me from practicing my religion because it's weathering the foundations of this great nation?
How about Jews? They're a 'tiny minority' too. Yup. Gotta stop them.
Native Americans? Tiny minority. Screw 'em.
The real cornerstone of our country is NOT 'consent of the governed'. It is dissent. The right to say no, and to have things changed.
It took women seventy years (from the Seneca Falls meeting in 1848) of effort to get the right to vote. States repeatedly gave women limited rights, then rescinded them.
Seventy years. All for something we all accept now as right and appropriate. We ask ourselves, "Why did it take so long? I mean, women were citizens of this great nation. Why couldn't they vote?"
Hmmm...gay people. They're citizens of this great nation. Why can't they receive the same rights?
---Skorpio
Overheard at the mall: "A fish is NOT a pet. It's a decoration that happens to be alive."
posted on June 8, 2004 11:04:47 AM new
We have a written Constitution in America to protect even "tiny" minority rights from the tyranny of the majority.
posted on June 8, 2004 11:45:10 AM new
CC: Your article is just another post of Linda's article about Europen gay marriages? How do you explain what has happened in the US over the past 20 years without gay marriages being legal? What is your explanation for the low marriage rates, higher divorce rates, more children born out of wedlock, and increased single parent families here in the US since th mid 80's?
Gay marriages have only been legal in one state for less than a month. Surely you can't blame gays for what has already happened in the past 20 years?
Also how do you know there are not other factors in Europe that have caused their "marriage problems" - ie economic or social.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
posted on June 8, 2004 01:36:30 PM new
Christian Coffee,
I didn't read your link on Holland. To compare the situation in Holland to the USA is nonsense. They are a completely DIFFERENT CULTURE. Their social system is very different than ours. This includes everything from birth to death.
Also, as I have state many times in this thread, it is NOT about anyone being a minority, but about how we as a society want to TREAT AND VIEW OTHERS. That's all!
Give me proof....... Well it depends on how you would like to view it. Many people think that black civil right have lead to the decline in society. Racism is still common place in the south. I believe that helping blacks into viable jobs and other such things have made a better society. I would rather have a middle income black family as my neighbor than a racist white pig family. BTW, I am white and I go to Detroit, (80 percent black) all the time both day and night. Yes, even to the ghetto areas. It doesn't bother me a bit.
As Skorpio Gal said, women had to fight for the simple right to vote for many years before they eventually gained it. They would have been about 50 percent of society's base. Why did they have no right to vote? Because the MAJORITY power of the time, MEN felt they didn't need to.
Also, if we were in the 1500's right now, YOUR PEOPLE (the Christians) would be BURNING ALIVE people of other religions. i.e. Pagan and Wicca, the Burning Times. Just as your people felt the Amish were wrong in their baptism practice. There are no more Amish in Europe as they fled to the US due to the mass drownings of them by Christians. It seems that Christians always have to have some sort of target to conquer.
Also, earlier in this thread, you referred to some of the posters as having thick skulls. While in comparision, I didn't call you or anybody else anything. I did say that I thought that your thinking was bigoted. Is thick skull the Christian term of the day?
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on June 8, 2004 03:03:46 PM new
I think the decline of successful marriage is mainly due to the number of people who are emotionally immature, they lack important relationship skills like communication, and they are unwilling or unable to hold up their end of the marriage partnership. Kindness, respect and ethical behavior goes a long way in any relationship. These qualities are not restricted to any religious group or to straight or gay people. Also, the decision to marry is theoretically supposed to be a lifetime decision, but really, people change, circumstances change, and sometimes the decision to marry is seen, in hindsight, as a mistake. This is not a failure, it is a successful correction of ones life course. No one is forcing Christians to marry same gender partners. I don't see what the problem is. We should all have the right to choose who we will marry and hopefully we will choose wisely, act maturely, and live happy lives together. Marriage, when it works, is a wonderful thing.
posted on June 8, 2004 08:09:35 PM new
Someone tell me why gays need to stay in a country they are not wanted in?
Going by the progess method, we left Europe to better our lives... the gays can go back to better theirs
Trying to see into the future yeager? It could be years before the decay this abomination brings about is noticable across the board.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on June 8, 2004 08:49:47 PM new
"Wherever rats appear they bring ruin, by destroying mankind's goods and foodstuffs. In this way, they (the rats) spread disease, plague, leprosy, typhoid fever, cholera, dysentery, and so on. They are cunning, cowardly, and cruel, and are found mostly in large packs. Among the animals, they represent the rudiment of an insidious and underground destruction - just like the Jews among human beings." - Nazi propaganda film, "The Eternal Jew"
Sound familiar?
Rotten, evil gay people, brining ruination down on the world. Wanting to marry, make people think they're normal.
Horrid, horrid people.
It's amazing. We haven't learned a #*!@ thing. Not one bloody thing.
Overheard at the mall: "A fish is NOT a pet. It's a decoration that happens to be alive."
posted on June 8, 2004 10:38:58 PM new
Twelve says,
Someone tell me why gays need to stay in a country they are not wanted in?
Who says they are not wanted here? You sound like a KKK member when referring to Black Americans. You also sound like a Bible thumper when you use the words like decay and abomination. You really don't believe everything you read in the Bible, or do you?
Apparently you don't like the social change that happens in this country, including the gay rights movement. I think that you are satisfied as long the rights of your interest are made available to you. If you don't like what is happening here, then why don't YOU move to a country where such things aren't allowed.
Your statement is akin to the white racist saying "if the Nig*gers don't like it here, then why don't they go back to Africa where they came from. Pretty bigoted at the least.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
Also, gay men and women are American citizens too. They don't have to go anywhere unless they want to. That is including moving onto your block and being your neighbors.
Ain't life grand!
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on June 9, 2004 06:22:30 AM new
Yes life is grand and will be most grand when we get this abomination marriages stopped.
Marriage is not a right, but seems like it has been ingrained in society so long that some seem to think it is, all states do not have the same marriage requirements.
The only people who are going to win this battle in the long run is the lawyers, and the ones who have the best, will win.
The Supreme Court is probably waiting waiting to see what will happen when the first case gets to court and how it is appealed.
Gay marriage has already hurt society by causing a schism that may never be healed.
You are right yeager they can move wherever they want, but why remain in a country that does not want them? Other than to cause trouble, nothing more....
People enabling this deviant behavior should look in the mirror... those gay priests that took advantage of those little boys... they thought being gay gave them that "right"
It is a sickness of the mind and they can receive help.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on June 9, 2004 06:53:01 AM new
Tweleve : You are right yeager they can move wherever they want, but why remain in a country that does not want them? Other than to cause trouble, nothing more....
You are the one that says the US doesn't want gays. What are you basing this statement on? What poll supports your conculison? If you don't like gay people why don't you move to another country. Where is your opinion going to stop. I suppose all black people should move back to Africa because the KKK doesn't like them.
People enabling this deviant behavior should look in the mirror... those gay priests that took advantage of those little boys... they thought being gay gave them that "right"
You are trying to tie being gay to molesting children. How many straight people have molested children? I agree the Church needs to take care of their own problems before they start preaching their own agenda.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
Your comments are getting more stupid all the time. You said......
Someone tell me why gays need to stay in a country they are not wanted in?
Now, let's substitute a couple of words in your statement and see how ridiculous it is.
Someone tell me why Nig*gers need to stay in a neighborhood they are not wanted in?
Do you see how they are so similar?
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on June 10, 2004 01:18:01 AM new
I had fun, earlier, pointing out absurdity by being absurd. If you came in late NearTheSea gave an excellent response (from another source) on page 8 that pretty much answers the posed question.
Although conservative, I prefer to include the gays in society because exclusionary policies benefit no one, but our enemies. I feel the family is pretty much blasted to smithereens by the selfish actions of heterosexuals. I have associated with homosexuals and I have associated with homophobes. Personally, I prefer to be around lovers rather than haters. Besides, it's not like they are going to out-breed us like the Chinese or the Mexicans. BTW, I'm a bigot.
posted on June 10, 2004 06:05:47 AM new
Judging from the venomous tirade of hate speech that follows any discussion of gay marriage, gays in the military, gays in the Boy Scouts, gay teachers, gay parents and the like, it would seem that laws are necessary to protect gay people from being the victims of hate speech and hate crimes. I can understand a civilized discussion of the issues, of course, everyone is not going to agree with everyone else. But I am shocked at the depth and violence of hatred some people have toward gay men and women. Where these very angry sentiments come from I don't know. It seems way out of proportion to the topic. It seems scary.
posted on June 10, 2004 06:14:47 AM new
You really are trying to grasp at straws with this civil rights tie in aren't you yeager... got news for you... the black community doesn't support homosexuals anymore than the white... no matter what Mrs. King wants...
logansdad, you being a homosexual, I can see you refuse to believe what is apparent everyday in the news and online and tv... that is your choice to continue to belive that... quite misguided, but your choice.
Want to see hatred Dell... look at what the homosexuals are trying to do the the Boy Scouts...
posted on June 10, 2004 06:28:36 AM new
12: logansdad, you being a homosexual, I can see you refuse to believe what is apparent everyday in the news and online and tv... that is your choice to continue to belive that... quite misguided, but your choice
Tweleve is you are referring to the polls that show most people are not in favor of gay marriages, I do see that in the paper and on TV. I am not blind, deaf or uneducated like some people. However I do not see ads on TV stating gays should not live in the US because most people don't want gay people around. The only TV station that would promote anything like that is 12TV and I do not subscribe to hate-promoting, bigoted stations like that. You have only one view of homosexuals - they should be put to death because being gay is wrong. We all have heard your views already. Whether you like it or not, gays will always be a part of this society, just like people promoting hate and viloence against those they don't like. The minorities in this country will continue fighting for equal rights. Hopefully one day it will be the straight white male that will have to fight for their equal rights as they will one day be the minority in the country. We will see then how they react.
Re-defeat Bush
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June is Gay Pride Month
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Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
posted on June 10, 2004 06:53:26 AM new
That's because most people today are afraid to go outside of Politically Correctness... they prefer to mutter it under their breathes.... do you really think that if they supported the homosexual lifestyle they would care about them getting married... LOL
posted on June 10, 2004 07:45:23 AM new
Twelveo you really think that if they supported the homosexual lifestyle they would care about them getting married... LOL
You have your own little visions and that is all you see. You are part of your own cult. The gay community is not asking for anyone to approve of their "lifestyle", we are asking for acceptance and equal rights. Both of which are beyond your understanding.
Politicians don't need to support the homosexual lifestyle, but the politicians better listen to their concerns because homosexuals can vote them in or out of office. Hopefull some day there will be a gay man in the oval office.
Re-defeat Bush
------------------------------
June is Gay Pride Month
------------------------------
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
You are right on the gays and the political process. Even though they are small in number, they are very well organized politically, and legally. Those who ignore will ultimately be defeated in the voting booth.
As Linda pointed out in one of here right wing web pages, they have "well healed homosexual lawyers".
Bigotry is wrong!
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
Again, you are correct and I am wrong. I don't know why I waste my time trying to keep up with your brilliant mind.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
