posted on July 9, 2004 02:43:35 AM new
Yes, you are in a mood tonight.
You didn't like the word I used. Okay...religious freedoms is just perfect - NOT religious beliefs.
But religious freedoms is the right to practice one's religious beliefs.
Have you even taken the time to look at just what Constitutional amendments ARE on the 'waiting list' to pass...or not? Interesting read. A couple might just surprise you.
posted on July 9, 2004 03:02:05 AM new
Current proposed constitutional ammendments in the current session
108th Congress (2003-2004)
To guarantee the right to use the word "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and the national motto
I was not even aware we had a national motto. Are there T-Shirts? What is the national motto?
To restrict marriage in all states to be between a man and a woman
Subject at hand
To remove any protection any court may find for child pornography
Something about that wording scares me. Sounds like they want to strip the Supreme Court of the right to rule on the constiutionality of anything labeled as child porn - we have already seen in the Ruebens case that some officials will make some far reaching stretches to label images, some even 50 and 60 year old images of boys in bathing auits, as child porn.
To allow Congress to pass laws for emergency replenishment of its membership should more than a quarter of either house be killed.
No - I'm sorry - I don't think that congress gets to create their own ranks. Doesn't that kind of fly in the face of the whole concept of democracy?
To place Presidential nominees immediately into position, providing the Senate with 120 days to reject the nominee before the appointment is automatically permanent
Mixed on this one....
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 9, 2004 03:08:15 AM new
BTW - The one thing I do find amusing is that the only new amendment passed in the past 33 years dealt with congressional pay levels.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
Agreed about the pay levels - figures they'd get that one passed. I always wanted to be able to decide how much I should have made...and what my wonderful full package of benefits could be too.
posted on July 9, 2004 06:37:29 AM newWrite your senators and let them know you support the Federal Marriage Amendment.
I heard on the radio this morning the senate is going to try and get this law passed. However going into they know they do not have the 2/3 majority to get it passed.
Another waster of tax payers money if you ask me.
Just like the Republicans: spend money like it is going out of style.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 06:49:54 AM new
If criminals for homosexuals hadn't started this abomination, then there would be no need for it...
Think about who is really wasting taxpayer money... the lawsuits from this will drag out for years... I hope you homosexuals are happy... But at least you know you are not as accepted as you thought you were LOL
It will be quite amusing if the Supreme Court does not make a state that has an amemdment in place not accept homosexual marriages from other states... but that will be years off before it even gets that far...
I think right now the majority of the people think that their upcoming votes on the subject and state constitutions will be enough... it is funny how those that don't want the federal government involved will in fact be involving the federal government if they take a case to the US Supreme Court.
posted on July 9, 2004 06:51:38 AM new
Linda: Look fenix, the reality is the majority of American's do NOT support gay marriage. period...that's a fact. It's the activists judges that are deciding to make law, rather than support the law as it now stands. Because of that those who support marriage as it is...are taking this larger step....we're being forced to do so by the minority.
Linda, shows me one law before 1980 where it says marriage should only be between a man and a woman.
Laws have been written since 1980 in order for the majority to have their way. They knew it was only a matter of time before gays would like to marry so they took a pro-active stance and passed these laws. Why? Because they are fearful of what they do not understand. It is their way of keeping the minority down.
The fact is the "straight community" does not care about "the sanctity of marriage" and over the past 30 years have slowly destroyed "marriage". The straight community has nobody to thank but themselves. But it is a lot easier to put the blame on another group of people than to take responsibility of their own actions.
Tell me how your life has changed in the past 6 weeks since gay marriages have been legalized in Massachusetts?
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 06:57:56 AM new
Why don't you ask someone that lives in MA that question logansdad...
For me it has made me angrier knowing that this country would even think of letting homosexuals go that far... this country is losing its sight and going off in directions that will drag us down.
People won't even convict when a transgender is murdered...
You really think that people accept your lifestyle?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on July 9, 2004 06:58:17 AM new
Why does it have to be a constitutional ammendment? I've already answered that....because the activist judges are not willing to abide by current laws.
There was no law in Massachusetts before May. Now that the judges have spoken, the politicians don't like what has happened. It is only know that they want to have a proposition but on the ballot in 2006. How do you explain that?
How would you like your marriage declared invalid after x number of years?
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 07:01:42 AM new
They never should of been married in the first place, they thought the judges would do the right thing, but they did not, so now legislation must take place.
It will be quite amusing to see those that should not be married be told their marriage is no longer valid.
posted on July 9, 2004 07:02:32 AM new
Families Like Mine
Children of Gay Parents Tell It Like It Is
by Abigail Garner
What is it really like to grow up with gay parents?
Abigail Garner was five years old when her mother and father divorced and her dad came out as gay. Growing up immersed in gay culture, she now calls herself a "culturally queer" heterosexual woman. As a child, she often found herself in the middle of the political and moral debates surrounding lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) parenting. At the age of twenty-two, she began to speak publicly about her family and has since become a nationally recognized advocate for the estimated 10 million children growing up with LGBT parents. The creator of FamiliesLikeMine.com, Garner has written a deeply personal and much-needed book about gay parenting, from the seldom-heard perspective of grown children raised in these families.
Based on eight years of activism, combined with interviews with more than fifty sons and daughters, Families Like Mine debunks the anti-gay myth that these children grow up damaged and confused. At the same time, Garner's book refutes the popular pro-gay sentiment that these children turn out "just like everyone else." In addition to the typical stresses of growing up, the unique pressures these children face are not due to their parents' sexuality, but rather to homophobia and prejudice. Using a rich blend of journalism and memoir, Garner offers empathetic yet unapologetic opinions about the gifts and challenges of being raised in families that are often labeled "controversial."
As more LGBT people are pursuing parenthood and as the visibility of gay parenting is rapidly increasing, many of the questions about these families focus on the "best interests" of their children. Eloquent and sophisticated, Families Like Mine addresses these questions, providing an invaluable insider's perspective for LGBT parents, their families, and their allies.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 07:13:06 AM new
logansdad, excellant post but as you can already see people like linda dimiss stories of real people and ignore whatever they don't agree with. That's because they don't know any real people..or any people..linda is very lonely..
She will just ignore proof she doesn't agree with...her brain hasn't accepted a new idea since the Civil War
here's another example:
linda says,"Cheryl - There's a HUGE difference between protesting and siding with the enemy. A HUGE difference"
linda, there's a huge difference between going to Vietnam and fighting and staying home drunk like bush did.
I think avoiding the war altogether helped the enemy, too
posted on July 9, 2004 07:52:51 AM new
Twelve:They never should of been married in the first place, they thought the judges would do the right thing, but they did not, so now legislation must take place.
It will be quite amusing to see those that should not be married be told their marriage is no longer valid
Tweleve are you jealous that two gay people in Massachussetes have more of marriage than you will ever know?
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 07:59:46 AM new
I applaud marriage between a man and a woman... not two of the same sex... you made the choice, you are the one who is jealous.
Thousands of former homosexuals are against you...
You can't face the fact that your chosen lifestyle is wrong and is not accpeted.
That is becoming funny... the more you fight the less you will win.
I asked once before and you did not answer... do you really think that if people really accepted the homosexual lifestyle, they would care if homosexuals got married?
I know I wouldn't, but then again I think homosexuality is wrong...
posted on July 9, 2004 08:26:14 AM new
I voted for the petition as well: and I agree that marriage should be between ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN! We should not allow 2 liberal activist judges from mass to try to change history in this nation.
BTW, this is a SPECIAL RIGHTS ISSUE, NOT A CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE. a homosexual can change back to a heterosexual: a colored man, or native American, or disabled person cannot.
As far as wasting taxpayers money, maybe we should cut funding to these groups that bring these stupid lawsuits into our court systems.
No matter what you may think, logansdad et al, the vast majority of Americans do not want homosexual marriage.
In Christ,
Rick
Genesis 1:1
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on July 9, 2004 08:29:30 AM new
do you really think that if people really accepted the homosexual lifestyle, they would care if homosexuals got married?
Most of the people in this country are tolerant of homosexuals.
Thousands of former homosexuals are against you...
Are you included in this category?
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 08:37:58 AM new
CC:BTW, this is a SPECIAL RIGHTS ISSUE, NOT A CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE. a homosexual can change back to a heterosexual: a colored man, or native American, or disabled person cannot.
A colored man, or native American, or disabled person cannot change from straight to gay or gay to straight. Is that what you are trying to say?
If you mean a black person can not change to a white person you are wrong. Michael Jackson is one example of this.
This is a civil rights issue:
Civil rights is defined as: The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and by subsequent acts of Congress, including civil liberties, due process, equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination.
The 13th amendment says: Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction
The 14th amendment says: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Your people have said marriage is a privilege time and time again. What part of the 14th amendment is not clear to you? Since gays are being discrimianted against when it comes to jobs, housing, marriage and benefits it does fall under the 14th amendment.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 08:46:25 AM new
And yet again you wish to twist what the original intention was, logansdad: anything to try to further your perversion.
What is so sad about this is you are so trapped in your SIN (and I know that is a difficult word for you to swallow) that you are blind to the consequences of your actions. And I know nothing said will change your point of view: even if God Himself appeared, you would still deny what He would say.
In Christ,
Rick
Revelation 20:11-15
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on July 9, 2004 08:53:51 AM new
No logasdad, I never made a choice to be homosexual... I have never been homosexual...
You can receive help to assist you from this choice...
This has nothing to do with the 14th amendment, it is funny how you pull out the constitution for your "protection" but are afraid of when we want a new amendment... LOL
Yeas most were tolerant... but now that homosexuals are bastardizing marriage... this too will pass... and less tolerance will be noted.
Many states are already getting ready to vote on the issue and/or pass legislation against it, 2006 MA will probably stop its mistake...
posted on July 9, 2004 08:56:07 AM newAnd yet again you wish to twist what the original intention was, logansdad: anything to try to further your perversion
No, you just don't like what you read in the Constitution and can't accept there is over 200 years of American History to prove you wrong.
What is so sad about this is you are so trapped in your SIN (and I know that is a difficult word for you to swallow) that you are blind to the consequences of your actions.
Who are you to judge me? The only person that can judge me is God himself when it is my day to die.
Speaking of sin how many times have you pleasured yourself? That is SIN against GOD and "the sanctity of marriage". So don't talk about sin unless you are GOD HIMSELF.
And I know nothing said will change your point of view: even if God Himself appeared, you would still deny what He would say.
I doubt GOD would say that. He was the one that said love your neighbor as thy self. It was Jesus that cared for the sinners and lepards or are you reading the "Straight man's version of the Bible"
You better read up on your religion again.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 9, 2004 09:13:59 AM new
Wrong, logansdad: I can freely speak of SIN because "all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God." Not just one person, but everyone.
As to pleasuring myself, I can freely admit I do not need to do that. My WIFE is just fine for me, thank you. However, I do have many sinful tendencies; I just do not try to force them down other people's throats like you do.
If you truly believe you will be judged, then why do you continue in a sin that you know to be wrong? If you wish to behave like a certain Baptist bishop here in New Hampshire, who claims to repent of his sin daily, but continues in it as an open homosexual, he has not repented at all. He just wishes to continue in his sin, just like you do in yours, or I do in mine.
Face it: sin feels good while you do it, but it has horrific consequences. And by your own admission, when you die and Christ judges you, will you be found lacking? Will He send you away from Him, or will He accept you? If you continue along the path you have chosen, I tend to think you will be cast out.
And while you are correct in that Christ told us to "LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, MIND AND STRENGTH. AND THE SECOND IS LIKE THE FIRST; LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." He also says "BUT THE COWARDLY, THE UNBELIEVING, THE VILE, THE MURDERERS,THE SEXUALLY IMMORAL, AND THOSE WHO PRACTICE WITCHCRAFT, AND IDOL WORSHIPERS, AND ALL LIARS-THEIR DOOM IS THE LAKE THAT BURNS WITH FIRE AND SULFER. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH."
See, God loves everyone, and wants none to perish. However, He also cannot stand SIN. Sin is our barrier to Him, and Christ is the bridge to cross that barrier. But you cannot pick and choose what you want to follow: you must follow all of it, or none of it. There is no in-between.
In Christ,
Rick
John 1:1
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
[ edited by ChristianCoffee on Jul 9, 2004 09:18 AM ]
posted on July 9, 2004 09:44:24 AM new
christiancoffee..Rick says:
He also says "BUT THE COWARDLY, THE UNBELIEVING, THE VILE, THE MURDERERS,THE SEXUALLY IMMORAL, AND THOSE WHO PRACTICE WITCHCRAFT, AND IDOL WORSHIPERS, AND ALL LIARS-THEIR DOOM IS THE LAKE THAT BURNS WITH FIRE AND SULFUR. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH."
Step back and give that a good read..
I could never worship a God who had such evil intentions and hatred in His heart to inflict this kind of cruelty on any of His own...
My God would have to be pure in his love and deed... an all forgiving God..
When I read of all this Hell Fire and Brimstone... and burning in fire and sulfur.. What kind of a God could act this way toward his own creation.. regardless of what sin they have committed. He is then, by his own cruelty to the sinner, committing the same sins as he preaches against..
posted on July 9, 2004 09:47:40 AM new
Twelve - I can honestly say that I never considered that to be our motto. Maybe I chose to ignore that it was because it is so bad. It does not take into effect that substantial percent of our population to whom it does not apply. I also think that it diminishes the American people and spirit. The strength of our nation is not incumbent upon our belief in God, it is in the people themselves.
I would think something along the lines of Together We Stand would be more appropriate.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 9, 2004 10:44:58 AM new
Maggie, He is a forgiving God: he has provided a way to Him. But you (and I use that term in generalities) only want the good, without wanting to suffer the consequences for the bad. If He is not a just God, then how could you ever really love Him? Or, if He made us all robots, then the love would be forced, not by choice. He wants us to choose Him: but you must accept all of Him.
It isn't cruelty: you make your choices, and live with them.
Just like if you own a home: you have the choice to pay the mortgage or not. Are they cruel to kick you out of the house if you do not pay your bills? And if you pay your bills on time, and occasionally run into a problem, they will work with you. But if you ignore them, refuse to follow the rules (laws) they set forth, then you do not belong there: they will kick you out.
In a sense God is the same way: except He sent someone to pay your bill for you. However, in accepting this payment, you must try to live by His laws. The only difference is when you try to live by His laws and fail, there is someone to pick you back up.
To continue the homeowners analogy, if someone said to you, "I will forever pay your bills, the only thing you have to do is listen to me and do what I want you to do because it is best for you." You have the choice to accept or reject the offer: to accept it means you will try to live within the rules (laws) that are made. To reject it means you will continue to try to do things on your own accord.
If you accept it, and you fail to live up to the rules (laws), your provider comes up to you and says, "Look, I know you are trying. Let me send someone to help you keep within you budget, and to follow the rules I have set down. Whenever you are in trouble, call on him, and he can help you. You may not always like what it is he tells you to do, but it will always be for your best."
So now you are faced with a dilemma: what to do? Do you take the final step, or do you say "No, I want to do it on my own." If you say no, your provider may reply, "Well, I am still here for you: whenever you need me, feel free to call on me. However, by rejecting my friend you have also rejected me, and I may not answer or help you."
Or do you accept the extra help, and have his friend not only be there to help you, but he comes and lives with you. He eventually becomes the best friend you could ever have. And even though you still make mistakes, you tell him what they are and he forgives you, and leads you in the direction to make things right again.
See, God is not cruel: He provides a way, through Jesus Christ. But it is an all or nothing venture: you have to accept everything, or nothing. If you pick and choose, all you are really doing in the end is cheating yourself. God gives us a free gift, one that we can choose or reject. It is up to us on what we do.
In Christ,
Rick
John 3:16-17
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on July 9, 2004 11:20:32 AM new
Christiancoffee.. Thank you for your reply.
I enjoyed reading your post and I do feel your deep love and spirituality for God in your words. You have made some very valid points, and I understand your explanation.
However, I just cannot accept that God can inflict pain and suffering on those who choose not to accept his way. You see, in my mind.. God is not flawed in any way.. and to inflict pain or suffering on another makes Him flawed. God must not be vengeful, not if He is a God of Pure Love.. He is not a flawed human being is He? He is the Maker and is Superior in every way to his creations and above sin.. do you see how the two don't go together.. The Almighty God, is above all sin and without flaws... or the God who will inflict pain and punishment and extreme cruelty on those who do not obey... sorry, I can't wrap my brain around this..
But thank you for your post and explanation. MM
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