I agree the bible is very interesting in concept, and I also believe that it has very little basis in any reality. I like to live my live through a system of personal honesty and integraty. I don't need a book to show me that.
crowfarm,
you are getting too funny!!!
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on July 25, 2004 09:52:38 PM new
A couple of weeks ago, a good friend of mine and I were talking about different religions and beliefs.
I told her that another friend knows a woman who says she can "speak in tongues". We agreed that this person would be classified as a nut. She also said, what's more funny is when the person next to them says they can understand everything that is said. I agree, what a bunch of nuts.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on July 25, 2004 10:04:16 PM new
That "speaking in tongues" thing is wild Yeager. I remember watching Jim Bakker on tv and all the sudden he started talking like that. I had never heard such a thing. A few months later, I learned they don't know what they're saying but God knows and understands. Can you imagine going for a God that buys into all that?
posted on July 25, 2004 10:08:10 PM new
Calling Christian Coffee!! or any one else that would like to answer.
Maybe you can also help me understand something else about religion. Here is the question, OK?
Prior to the advent of the christian religion, there were other religions that people took part in. The primary religion of most of European was Wicca, that is before the religious wars started and the populations were forced to succumb to christianity, or else faith death.
In the fact that Wicca don't believe in a heaven or hell, their souls can't go there. They believe the soul returns to the earth, as it is an earth based religion. Keep in mind it serve the population of Europe for many centuries very well before christianity.
Now to the question.
When a modern day Witch dies, where in your eyes, (the christian viewpoint) does their soul go. Does it go to hell, where the non saved (the christian viewpoint) goes? Or does the Wicca soul return to the earth, as they practice an earth based religion? Where does it go?
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
I can say that I have never been to prison, unlike Jimmy Bakker. I wonder if he was a prison bitc*h?
Also, I have more morals than to partake with a 35.00 hooker in a 20.00 hotel room. That is like Jimmy Swaggart, who then blubbered on the news. "Oh, my God. Please forgive me, as I have sinned. What a farce!
I also don't have a career in religion and molest young boys who have been placed in my trust by their parents.
I like many other so called liberal people on this board have strong morals and are law abiding citizens. Just think, all of this with out going to church.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on July 26, 2004 01:08:44 AM new
(Deuteronomy13:6-15).
A Guide for the Neo-Cons
“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people . . . If thou shalt hear . . . Certain men . . . have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods . . . Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants ofthat city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword”
posted on July 26, 2004 01:36:46 AM new
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return
for protection to his own.
-- Thomas Jefferson
HELL: A place where the police are German, the motorists French and the
cooks English.
-- Bertrand Russell
Heaven for climate, Hell for company.
-- J.M. Barrie
The idea that a good God would send people to a burning hell is utterly
damnable to me -- the raving of insanity, superstition gone to seed!
I want no part of such a God.
-- Luther Burbank
The Church worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and
imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of
witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood.
Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and
never had been. One doesn't know whether to laugh or to cry. Who
discovered that there was no such thing as a witch -- the priest, the
parson? No, these never discover anything.
-- Mark Twain
Hospitals perform more miracles than churches.
-- "Luree"
When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.
-- Robert Anton Wilson
When authorities warn you of the sinfulness of sex, there is an important
lesson to be learned. Do not have sex with the authorities.
-- Matt Groening
When religion ruled the world, they called it the Dark Ages.
-- bumpersticker
If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls
for attachment than any other, it is the principle of free thought -- not
free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought
we hate.
-- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
A union of government and religion tends to destroy government
and degrade religion.
-- Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black, Engel v. Vitale, 1962
Oh, sure, you can use FACTS to prove ANYTHING that's even REMOTELY true!
-- Homer Simpson
Testicles are nature's way of saying, "Put your other hand here."
-- The Playboy Advisor
posted on July 26, 2004 07:16:15 AM new
Here something else for some of you to laugh at,it somes out of the bible and only means something to a christian believer.
Every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,whereof ye have heard that it should come;and even now already is in the world.
posted on July 26, 2004 08:02:00 AM new
yeager, I do apologize for ASSuming you are gay. I had you mixed up with Yellowstone who from the preponderance of gay threads sure appears gay to me. But even so...it is clear to me the lefties want to enable gay's to full rights, full non-shame of being gay, full acceptance of their way of life...but BE Christian...and oh no, that's stupid,ignorant blah, blah, blah. Shoving things down people's throats you dont wish to accept...
This is a hypocrisy you guys are totally blinded to!!!
Now as to your question where in your eyes, (the christian viewpoint) ...does their soul go ...
- Isnt that a oxymoron question? If you're already asking from the christian viewpoint, you know what the answer will be.
posted on July 26, 2004 11:43:44 AM new
Nero, I haven't seen anyone debunk God. It's religion itself and teaching from the Bible that's being questioned.
posted on July 26, 2004 01:15:29 PM new
Well, kraft, if people, - lets say particulary Christians or Jews of a religion - believe the bible IS the word of God...what is the difference here?
Do you not 'get' 90% of the belief is God speaks to people through the bible?
posted on July 26, 2004 02:01:52 PM new
Hey Nero...I'm not even going to ask this time!!!!!!LOL
Seriously though.. this is why a forum on religion is socially taboo..
We are all entitled to our beliefs and because our beliefs are so personal...it is almost impossible to discuss the subject without offending someone else or hurting their feelings..
I like the study of Religion and I like the debate.. but I do not assume that my beliefs are any more correct than anyone elses...MM
posted on July 26, 2004 02:10:46 PM new
Nero, I think it's great if somebody finds God through the Bible or any other means. If 90% of the population believes the Bible is the word of God, that's fine with me too. Because I don't necessarily agree, I wonder why mine or anyone else's questioning is met with such disdain? What's anyone worried about if only 10% don't agree? Anything a person believes in should be able to withstand questioning unless the believer doesn't understand his own beliefs. When cornered, the believer gets snarly and makes it look like the messengers are the ones to blame instead of looking at their own weaknesses. This is especially true in religion. If something can't be explained, it's because God didn't want us to understand or some other silliness. God says over and over that we're suppose to love, forgive and not judge, yet the 90% believers are the ones contributing to pollution, greed, narcissism, over-population, hate, war - you name it. If the way the world is today, a product of what the God in the Bible is teaching you all, shouldn't there be somebody out there who sees the hypocrisy and say something?
I do accept you apology for your comment. However, please allow me to teach me a simple rule that works every time when a person feels the need to make a potentially untrue remark about another person. It's very simple.
If you have never seen a particular person involved in a certain activity, OR that person has never told you that he/she is involved in that activity, then you have no right to make comments to that effect.
Example: Mary works at the grocery store, and you think that she steals money from the cash register. If you never saw Mary take money, and she has never told you that she does, you have no right to make that statement about her, no matter how much you believe it.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on July 26, 2004 09:42:38 PM new
I said months ago, here, that when I was growing up a Baptist, we did not call our belief set a religion. All the OTHER WRONG groups, and they were all wrong in one way or another, were RELIGIONS. Ours was the true word, a relationship with God, whatever you call it.
So if any religion is better than no religion, why are we warring against Al Qaeda, which is a religion? Can a conservative Republican answer that for us, please? Are you saying the Al Qaeda adherents are better off with their religion than if they were atheists?
posted on July 27, 2004 01:24:47 AM newI like the study of Religion and I like the debate.. but I do not assume that my beliefs are any more correct than anyone elses...MM
This is how I feel, too, MM!
(btw fdoy was originally going to be 'f/n doy-as in 'duh!'-but it came out fdoy, so I left it that way...lol)
Kraft, I'm sorry, you say you think its "great", but I dont think you really do think its great because you go on and on to complain about it. If God says were supposed to love, forgive and not judge...where did you get this information from? Not the bible, right??? Seems to me you want to just pick and choose what YOU would like apply here. Thats why you're against religions. And that is supposed to be the difference. You dont get to pick and choose, what you want and disregard the rest..you buy the whole package hook line and sinker. Thats the commitment part. I can talk about this because I've struggled with it for years! See Kraft, the thing about God and religion is ultimatly, "YOURE NOT in Control - God is. If you cant give up that premise that you are in control, then in my opinion, you really do not believe in God. Otherwise you are saying, God is a lier.
]
Yeager, thanks much for your lecture. But I think I will continue to formulate my own opinions. Presuming someone is gay is hardly the same as accusing someone of committing a crime. - Where do you get off with that? And should you be gay, why would in the year 2004,- why would you want to deny it? Do gay people have to be made to feel, on a annoymous message board no less, to feel they have to hide that? I assume Logansdad is gay. Does he care, no?
Maybe he is glad he is who is he. That would be the best case scenerio in my opinion.
I didn't mean that to be a lecture in any way. It's unfortunately that you took it that way. That is the simple way I personally determine what I will say about anybody on any subject. The example of Mary taking money from the cash register was only an example. Many people know or believe they know people who are like Mary. I used that example for that reason. That's all.
Also, if any person is gay or not, is only their business.
It seems to me that certain so call christians pick and choose what they want to believe too. Take for example that pedophile priest. There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for that behavior. As with Jimmy Swaggart paying a whore for sex, while he was married too. Talk about a double standard.
I can talk about this because I've struggled with it for years! See Kraft, the thing about God and religion is ultimatly, "YOURE NOT in Control - God is. If you cant give up that premise that you are in control, then in my opinion, you really do not believe in God. Otherwise you are saying, God is a lier.
Everyone has their own idea of what God is. So there is no real meaning of what you said to Kraft. My grandmother believed since God is everywhere, then God must be the air. And she was a Catholic.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
[ edited by yeager on Jul 27, 2004 02:16 AM ]
posted on July 27, 2004 02:02:15 AM new
Also, if you are an atheist, and you truly don't believe in God, then who is in control then?
You can't say God, because if they don't believe in God, they don't believe in God. You can't reguired someone to believe in something they refuse to believe exists.
What if I told you I think there are cows on the moon, and truly believed it? What would you think of that?
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on July 27, 2004 03:36:53 AM new
Yeager, you and kraft go round and round with this. There is no double standard for swaggert, etc., etc. There are cons in religion, like anything else. But provided they are not cons, they do accept it hook line and sinker...that doesnt mean they are unhuman and can overcome every temptation.
What do you think if people believe in God/Religion they are supposed to be like supernatural beings with power to not get tempted?? Thats ridiculous. How many times have you done something wrong and knowing its wrong...and done it anyway? The more one tries to stay closer to a God, is the more they will get tempted. - Do you think the devil or any so called evil force gives a rats azz about somebody he already has?
:: Everyone has their own idea of what God is. So there is no real meaning of what you said to Kraft::
- Not in a religion yeager. What dont you get about that? If you want my opinion, I dont think you want to believe in God at all. Your confusion of it is astounding! YOU think you are in control. That is NOT having a faith in a GOD. Go read about faith and its relation to a God, any God. I dont care if its wicca. They have faith in the things they believe can empower them, beyond them. Geez, Yeager you are really floating out in a rowboat in the middle of nowwhere with your ideas!
posted on July 27, 2004 10:58:48 PM new
nero says,
The more one tries to stay closer to a God, is the more they will get tempted.- Do you think the devil or any so called evil force gives a rats azz about somebody he already has?
It seems to me that if a person wants to steer clear of the devil, he/she should stay away from the church. By your words, you indicate the devil seems to be attracted to those people.
Am I to understand that the devil has control of everyone who is not a christian?
So are you the type of person that believe that if you don't take a strong position towards religion that the devil will scorch you ass?
The idea of the devil and hell was also created by the christian religion. If you studied other religions, you would learn that.
Also, as far as a person being tempted to do something wrong, I think it's a matter of self control. You see, I have never been it prison or jail for one minute. The reason is that I have self control. There are many times that I could have stepped on the wrong side of the law, but mad the correct choice not too. Take for example, your Jimmy Bakker. He bilked people out of money every day. There are many times that I had no money, but refused to steal. Why? The answer is self control.
Now on to Jimmy Swaggart. There are many times that I could have gone with a hooker but didn't. The reason is self control, also most are walking disease factories.
These people who are supposed to represent the very best in society have a lot of short comings. As you imply, they are not "supernatural beings". They just show they have no self control and their followers, people like you seem to validate the behavior.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
