posted on August 27, 2004 06:50:17 AM new
taken from townhall.com, this morning:
"Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer:
"'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry
Dear John,
As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George Bush about your war record.
He's been exceedingly generous about your military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.
I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals as they deserved.
This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either, John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home.
There are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't finished."
Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you thought he was.
Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.
But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having, John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.
When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served--and were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all, John, you then accused me--and all of us who served in Vietnam--of committing terrible crimes and atrocities.
On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted on television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed."
And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of prisoners, the killing of prisoners."
Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured because of you, John:
Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.
Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4, 1973.
Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as solitary (confinement)...and a prime reason the war dragged on." He remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.
John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way, you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in chief.
One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."
Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?
Oliver North is a nationally syndicated columnist, host of the Fox News Channel's War Stories and founder and honorary chairman of Freedom Alliance.
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And of course there was another POW that said basically the same thing as the POWs above did....he was John McCain.
posted on August 27, 2004 09:05:26 AM new
This is a quality post with names and opinions. Of course, the liberal pukes will disparage the source, but can they argue with the quoted statements by those that were 'in theater'? Sure they can, but it just makes their knee-jerk bias all that more obvious. John Kerry is probably one of the few vets that accepts Hanoi Jane's apology. Oh, wait, they were comrades in arms and are both honored by the Vietnamese. Although he 'didn't mean too' John Kerry's actions aided and abetted the enemy during a time of armed conflict. His goal may have been honorable, but his methods were not. And now he acknowledges applying for and receiving a Purple Heart that was unearned. All of this AND the most liberal flip-flop voting record in the Senate.
I especially like the part about men that turned down Purple Heart commendations so as to stay with their units, juxtapose that with 'I've got my three I'm outta here Kerry'.
posted on August 27, 2004 10:27:57 AM new
Your kidding an opinion piece by a traitor. North shouldn't have been pardoned in Iran Contra rather his conviction should stand.
posted on August 27, 2004 11:05:00 AM new
Back to your usual lib smeat tactics I see Reamond. When you can't attack the arguement in the article, you attack the author.
kerry claims to have witnessed and participated in these war crimes but refuses to name names of those involved. That in it self is a crime according to the UCMJ.
With all the time kerry spent filming his actions in Vietnam, why didn't he film these crimes when he witnessed them.
------------------------
Put up or shut up, Sen. Kerry
Ben Shapiro (archive)
In Jewish thought, there is a concept called "midah k'neged midah" -- literally, "measure for measure." Jews invoke this phrase when the punishment for an action fits the crime perfectly. A flawless example: Stephanie and Bryan Loudermilk of Okeechobee County, Fla., created fetish videos in which Stephanie stepped on and crushed live animals. Bryan ended up as roadkill in June 1999, crushed to death beneath the rear wheels of his own truck. Poetic justice.
It seems John Kerry is slowly being crushed beneath the weight of his own truck of lies. After making his name in 1971 by returning from Vietnam and slandering U.S. troops before Congress, Kerry decided that in order to win the 2004 presidential campaign, he'd have to become Andrew Jackson, Dwight D. Eisenhower and Ulysses S. Grant all rolled into one. He'd have to revive his image as all-American war hero in order to win the swing vote. So while in 1971 Kerry denounced his fellow veterans and labeled the war in Vietnam a disastrous mistake, Kerry has suddenly discovered that Vietnam was in fact World War II and he was Audie Murphy.
John Kerry's entire presidential campaign has been predicated upon the idea that he won some medals in Vietnam -- and that, as a medal winner, he'll be a friend to American soldiers. To that end, Kerry has also rewritten his original feelings about Vietnam vets, telling the Veterans of Foreign Wars that "for 35 years I have stood up, and fought, and kept faith with my fellow veterans."
Meanwhile, Kerry allowed "Section 527 organizations," which are exempt from campaign spending limits, to pour extreme radicalism into the political sphere. The Moveon.org crowd, the Michael Moore acolytes, play a crucial part in the Kerry campaign machine. Kerry's campaign has adopted the language, tone and tactics of the Michael Moore wackos. Just this week, Kerry's campaign spokeswoman derided President Bush, stating: "John Kerry is not the type of leader who will sit and read 'My Pet Goat' to a group of second-graders while America is under attack." Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" spends a full seven minutes focusing on this ridiculous argument -- and mislabeling the book Bush read to a group of second-graders "My Pet Goat." The real name of the book is "Reading Mastery 2," and the story Bush read was called "The Pet Goat." Kerry's spokeswoman simply lifted Moore wholesale.
Kerry's campaign has been one long string of deceits. But Kerry made a crucial error: He counted out cosmic justice. Nearly three decades after the end of the Vietnam War, the veterans Kerry degraded are back. A group of 250 Vietnam veterans known as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are speaking up, letting America know that what happened in Vietnam and its aftermath has not been forgotten. They claim that John Kerry is no war hero -- that, in fact, he is a back-stabbing glory-seeker. And their voice is being heard: "Unfit for Command," their book, has dominated the best-seller charts ever since its release. To add to the irony, Swift Boat Vets for Truth is a 527 organization -- a direct parallel to the Moveon.org, pro-Kerry monster.
The Kerry campaign has been unable to cope with the problem of "midah k'neged midah." Instead of confronting the charges leveled by the Swiftees -- just release your records, Sen. Kerry! -- he has questioned their integrity, trying to pull a Hillary Clinton-esque charge of "vast right-wing conspiracy." Instead of welcoming the debate -- just release your records, Sen. Kerry! -- he has attempted to stifle it, filing a Federal Election Commission suit baselessly alleging that the Bush administration is behind these veterans (yet another instance where Kerry has no problem insulting vets if they disagree with him). Instead of putting forth a convincing argument in his own defense -- just release your records, Sen. Kerry! -- he has called upon the publisher of "Unfit for Command" to pull it from stores.
Now that "midah k'neged midah" has come crashing down about John Kerry's ears, he wants to stop talking about Vietnam. Pathetically, he told an audience in New York that it is Bush who is "misleading the American people, hiding behind front groups, saying anything and doing anything to avoid the real issues that matter, like jobs, health care and the war in Iraq."
Sen. Kerry, I've been waiting for months to hear you speak to the real issues in this campaign. But you don't have any real answers, and so you've continually hearkened back to your halcyon days on the Mekong Delta. Sen. Kerry, you wanted to relive the Vietnam era, and now, you've got it. All you have to do is release your records. Now's the time: Either put up, or shut the hell up.
posted on August 27, 2004 12:26:56 PM newkerry claims to have witnessed and participated in these war crimes but refuses to name names of those involved.
Read the account by one of your own Swift Boats liars club Bear brain -- HE FAULTS KERRY FOR NOT REPORTING AN ATROCITY THE SWIFT BOAT LIAR HIMSELF COMMITTED !!!!
THE SWIFT BOAT LIAR SHOT AND KILLED INNOCENT CIVILIANS INCLUDING AN INFANT/CHILD.
HE FAULTS KERRY FOR NO PUTTING THE KILLINGS IN HIS REPORT !!!
posted on August 27, 2004 12:38:51 PM new
Linda_K, YOUR HERO NORTH IS A LIER, WAS CAUGHT, THEN NORTH BECAME A CONVICTED FELON. Linda_K if it wasn't for TWISTED WORDS AND LIES YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY.
posted on August 27, 2004 02:50:32 PM newRead the account by one of your own Swift Boats liars club Bear brain
The truth is getting to much for you is it Reamond. Resorting to youre liberal roots basics of lies and slurs.
If you bothered to read the report from Garner, you should be asking "What kerry was doing hiding in the boats cabin, instead of being on the bridge where he should have been.
And also if you read Garners statement you would see that Garner fired only after the man made a threating move & did not respond to stop, While tragic the death of the child was accidental and could have been prevented had his father responded to commands to stop his movements.
Kerry did not include the incedent in his after incident report because he was responsible for what happened by not being at his station, where he belonged. As oic only kerry was responsible for all the actions of his crew.
posted on August 27, 2004 03:01:13 PM new
Ohhhhhh, they've resorted to capitals. Being a convicted felon that has served his time does not make Ollie North a liar. It just means he has been shown exactly where the line is. He has a better grasp on reality than any of the wine swilling liberals that post their arm-chair quarterback opinions here.
So, Dubya was smart enough not to get his ass shot at and that makes him a deserter? His Honorable Discharge says you are a big fat opinionated liar. Or are you saying the U.S. military hands out Honorable Discharges to deserters? IMHO, Reamond, you don't know apple butter from butt butter.
posted on August 27, 2004 03:07:57 PM new
bear....please correct me if I'm wrong, but I know I read on the vietnamveteransagainstkerry website where kerry, himself, admitted to killing a baby and others...saying 'he'd never forget that day'.
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To those who chose to smear Oli North you ignore the fact that he's been in Iraq many times encouraging and reporting on what our soldiers are doing right over there. He shares his pride for what they are accomplishing and the goal they're working towards.
Shame on you....you're not putting your life on the line like he has for years.
posted on August 27, 2004 06:16:27 PM new
reamond: I'm worried about you! I see that you have been on the board for almost 47 months and have made 5,872 posts. Let's see, that averages to over 4 posts per day, every day for almost four years. I have been on the board for longer than you and this will be my 50th post.
Between sitting in front of the TV, watching the liberal news and posting on this board all day, when will you find the time to vote, much less work on eBay, which is the reason you are on the Vendio board, I would presume.
posted on August 27, 2004 07:01:42 PM newTo those who chose to smear Oli North you ignore the fact that he's been in Iraq many times encouraging and reporting on what our soldiers are doing right over there. He shares his pride for what they are accomplishing and the goal they're working towards.
He's a convicted felon. A liar. Trusting this man's opinion is another example of desperation on the right's part. I'll say it again. Not many decide their vote on a 30+ year military record on either side. Kerry blew it by emphasizing his service so heavily, giving the right their cheap ammo. Bush has blown it by standing by and saying too little too late about his lying supporters. They ought to both just quietly back away from this dumb issue, ignore the 52 whatevers and start talking about what's important now.
___________________________________
Our `neoconservatives' are neither new nor conservative, but old as Bablyon
and evil as Hell." --Edward Abbey
posted on August 27, 2004 08:19:19 PM new
Sorry bear - I didn't mean to imply I wanted you to find it for me...but rather to verify what I remembered reading from kerry's own statements.
Thanks.
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Yes, profe, I understand some on the left only give lip service to supporting our troops, while others, like Ollie North actually do something to support and encourage them, putting himself in harms way in Iraq.
I wouldn't expect you to understand what that means to our troops over there....rather than the lack of support and constant anti-war crap they hear the left speaking - which demoralizes them. Just like kerry did during the VN war.
Bush has blown it by standing by and saying too little too late about his lying supporters.
I'll remind you again that many Swift Boat Veterans have CLEARLY stated this is NOT to support President Bush. It is something kerry did to them and they're speaking out about it.
This little war is between the Vietnam Vets, their families and kerry.
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 27, 2004 08:25 PM ]
posted on August 27, 2004 08:30:09 PM newThey ought to both just quietly back away from this dumb issue, ignore the 52 whatevers and start talking about what's important now.
Profe51
Bush has said that he believes that Kerry's war record is honorable, so Bush is ignoring the 52 whatevers. It is Kerry that can't get past it. Yes, it's partly because of the 52 whatevers, but then as was stated in the opening post here it was Kerry which you, not the president, made the centerpiece of this campaign. So if Kerry makes that the centerpiece of his campaign then why, tell me, is it just supposed to be ignored?? As a Presidential candidate anything and everything they say is open for discussion and scrutiny or didn't you know that.
posted on August 28, 2004 08:05:17 AM newI wonder how it demoralizes the troops in Iraq to hear the Republicans slandering a war vet??
What vet? You mean the lying traitor that disrepected all his fellow vets with his talk before the congress? You mean the lying traitor that has made claims that now show them to be lies?
Coming from our board liar, it figures you support him.
I know of many Iraqi vets that will not be voting for that lying traitor....
But then being a liar yourself, you wouldn't understand.
damn etex you posted faster... LOL
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Re-Elect President Bush... the only true choice.
[ edited by Twelvepole on Aug 28, 2004 08:05 AM ]
posted on August 28, 2004 08:05:28 AM new
etexbill, why should it demoralize them to know a war vet stood up and told the truth. And believe it or not , Kerry was NOT the only person who said the Vietnam war was a mistake and atrocities were being committed. If you knew anything about history you'd know that LOTS of people knew it was a mistake and the atrocities committed there were only part of that mistake.
If anything, the troops may learn from that and Rumsfeld's torture scheme at Iraqi prisons that as soldiers they have rules and ethics to follow also.
posted on August 28, 2004 08:38:50 AM new
But Kerry is the only one running for president.
Just what does "Bring it on" mean? How does JK define that statement and if he doesn't, it means that anything is fairgame and just like he says they are bringing it on and he doesn't like it.
Many men didn't put their life on the line does that make them less a man than anyone else?
He was the one that brought up his military record, I wish people could understand that now he doesn't like what is happening so now he wants them to stop it, BUT he is still talking about it.
posted on August 28, 2004 08:49:37 AM new
crowfarm: I probably know more about history than you could even imagine. I lived thru most of it in the 20th century starting with World War II. I know that a lot of people didn't agree with the Vietnam War but they didn't make a great effort to be one picked to go before a Congressional Committee to testify against his fellow soldiers and about things he did himself, (or says he did himself, he can't remember for sure). As I said before in another post, I am an Independent who was considering voting for Kerry, but he has completely turned me off with his "I am a hero" campaign. Who cares?? The American voters voted in a known draft dodger who put in writing his "loathing for the military", and defeated a known hero who lost the use of an arm in combat. So apparently they don't care a hoot about war records. Kerry picked the wrong fight. He made his own bed, so let him "lie" in it, and I use the term literally.
posted on August 28, 2004 09:14:35 AM new
First, Libra Dahling, "Bring it on " is a play on Bush's challenge to terrorists ...he had a testosterone surge and said, "Bring it On!" ....he was trying to encourage terrorists to keep fighting and kill more Americans. (Nice guy that he is).
Etexbill, No, I doubt you know more than I do about history just cause you're old.
And try to use reasoning.,...if his war record doesn't impress you why don't you look at his stand on other issues....otherwise you're the one who's concentrating on the war(Vietnam)
posted on August 28, 2004 09:22:48 AM new
etexbill - Haven't you realized by now that crowfarm knows everything. She is the master of this chatboard. The person that corrects spelling, of course when she does it it is okay, She can correct you but heaven for bid if you do it to her. Never posts according to the subject. She has tunnel vision. Oh and BTW had to take a 9% pay cut as she reminds us of that frequently.
It won't take you long to find that out, but then maybe you know it already
posted on August 28, 2004 09:24:25 AM new
crowfarm: That's just it. What is his stand on other issues? He's too busy fighting the hornet's nest that he stirred with his ill conceived "I am a hero" campaign to talk about the issues. That's one of the many reasons, I won't vote for him. He just didn't use good judgement. And, I'll put my knowledge of history up against your's anytime. Bring It On!!
posted on August 28, 2004 09:29:38 AM new
Thanks, Libra. I'm new to posting here although I've been lurking for years. Some of the posts here just got my dander up. That's an old Texas saying. I am quickly learning about crowfarm. It don't take long. LOL
