posted on September 2, 2004 08:34:28 AM new
I have never stated I am a Republican: I am a Christian conservitive, but I am independent. I stick to no specific party lines, and i look for honesty, integrity, and conviction when I vote. If I feel a democrat, independent or even some other party represents what my core belief's are, I will vote for them.
And if VP Cheney supported homosexual "marriage", then I guess he wouldn't be the nominee for VP, would he. And if he was running for office in my state, I would not vote for him
In Christ,
Rick
1Peter 1:7
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
It seems to me the in the thread How does Gay Marriage Hurt Anyone, you indicated that God MADE you straight. Now you are claiming that there is a possibly that one of your children or grand children may choose to be gay. Now, if God made you straight, and God creates all people, then would God create Gay Americans too? You can't have it both ways.
So, I ask you again. Did you choose to be straight, or was it just natural for you? Do you have enough courage to answer that question. I am not interested in your interpretation of anything in the bible either.
I was not interested in whether you think what the bible says about anything. Not all people believe what the bible says. So, it wouldn't have any meaning to all people as you seem to think it does.
Oh, BTW, this christain church that you embrace is the same church that killed thousands and thousands of people who refused to give up their former religions. I bet your beloved bible doesn't say anything about that, does it?
The simply fact is that every state has shot down the abortion issue is simple. Courts don't make decisions based on what bible thumpers or religious conservatives want. The decisions are based on equality and opportunity for all. In case you haven't noticed, your religious belief system has NOTHING to do with the making of laws. The neocons only use people like you to get elected, promising you things that are NEVER going to happen. How many conservatives promised the ending of abortion, and it never happened. Talk leading the sheep to slaughter.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 2, 2004 08:55:23 AM new
For CC----
Bush abandons base on homosexuality
By Jane Chastain
President George W. Bush may have unwittingly given homosexual activists just the boost they need to get state governments to pass domestic partnership laws, which put gay unions on an equal footing with marriage.
OK. Perhaps I'm being charitable, but I would prefer not to believe it was a cold, calculated attempt to pander to yet another voting block.
On Aug. 15, in an interview with CNN's Larry King, the president was talking about his support for a federal marriage amendment when King asked him, "What about the union of gays?"
Mr. Bush said, "Well, that's up to the states, you know. If states choose to do that, in other words, if they want to provide legal protections for gays, that's great! That's fine!"
The president went on to say a few words about the importance of keeping the definition of marriage as it is – a union between a man and a woman. However, the damage was done.
Here we have a president, who professes a faith in Christ, who has been endorsed by the religious right and heralded as the new leader of the conservative movement, giving his stamp of approval to gay unions.
How else can we take, "That's great! That's fine"?
In response to another King question, the president went on to elaborate, "There are ways to make sure gays have got rights. And you can do so in the law."
This will be the new "gold standard" for those promoting domestic partnership laws: "Even George W. Bush says that states should pass these laws."
To make matters worse, when King mentioned the difficulty of amending the Constitution, Mr. Bush said, "It's an important debate. … I think our society is great because people are able to live their lifestyles, you know, as they choose or as they're oriented."
In this one brief interview, President Bush encouraged the passage of domestic partnership laws. Furthermore, by embracing the favorite buzzword of homosexual activists, "sexual orientation," promoted the theory that one is either born a homosexual or a heterosexual and there is nothing anyone can do to change.
This is an affront to researchers and medical professionals who have battled the myth of the "gay gene" and have been swimming upstream against the tide of political correctness and media bias to have sound science applied to this important issue.
It is an affront to the thousands of former homosexuals who are ridiculed and ignored but serve as living exhibits that one can, in fact, change.
It is an affront to health workers who have to battle the ravages of a disease spread by the practice of unnatural sex acts and who suffer unnecessary exposure to infection because they are not allowed to screen patients for AIDS.
It is an affront to criminologists who are ignored or excoriated if they point out the fact that homosexual men are much more likely to molest children than their heterosexual counterparts: From 1 to 3 percent of the population is committing one-third of all sex crimes against children.
It is an affront to groups like the Boy Scouts who have fought an uphill battle against gay activists who want to force them to permit homosexual scoutmasters.
Nine days after the president made these regrettable remarks, Vice President Dick Cheney came out in support of gay marriage at a campaign stop in Davenport, Iowa. When the vice president was asked what he thought about homosexual marriages, Cheney replied, "My general view is that freedom means freedom for everybody. People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to. The question that comes up with respect to the issue of marriage is what kind of official sanction or approval is going to be granted by the government, if you will, to the particular relationship?"
Cheney tried to abdicate his responsibility by saying the issue should be decided by the states. However, Cheney also tried to distance himself from the federal marriage amendment by saying, "The president makes basic policy for this administration and he's made it clear that he does, in fact, support an amendment on this issue."
Personally, I don't think this was an off-the-cuff response by Cheney. President Bush runs a tight ship punishing – even embarrassing – members of his Cabinet who publicly go against his policies. It appears to be a case of Bush and Cheney playing "good cop, bad cop."
Unfortunately, on the issue of homosexual unions, it is the president of the United States who has given gay activists an arsenal of new weaponry.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:05:52 AM newHomosexuality is a SIN! God did not create it: it is a result of man's degradation and wanting to do things his own way
God created sin or did you forget about that. God created everything.
God also loved homosexuals he just hated the act. But that is something you just fail to understand.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:08:21 AM new
Like sheep to the slaughter is what abortion is, yeager.
To answer your question, yes, I chose to be heterosexual. But there is something you and others like you don't seem to understand:
God created us, and he allows us to choose to follow Him or not. If you chose not to follow what He has laid down for rules, it is called sin.
But, since you want me to defend what I say without my core beliefs, you will most likely disregard what I have said here as more "Bible Thumper" gibberish.
In Christ,
Rick
Luke 17:33
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 2, 2004 09:12:17 AM new
Sorry, logansdad, God didn't create sin: man chose to sin. God set down laws, and man decided he knew best. god knew that was going to happen, that is why He sent His Son to us: to show us how much He loves us.
But these statements will most likely fall on deaf ears as well.
In Christ,
Rick
Hebrews 10:1-18
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 2, 2004 09:12:59 AM newShow me where homosexuality has done any good for a nation
What exactly are you looking?
There are gay scientists, lawyers, doctors, politicians, athletes, carpenters, designers. Each has a made a contribution to society in the same way any straight person in the same profession.
How has hetrosexuality made a contribution to society?
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:16:10 AM newGod created us, and he allows us to choose to follow Him or not. If you chose not to follow what He has laid down for rules, it is called sin.
Then how is it that god knows the future if we have this choice ?
God knows what we will do before we do it, he knows it all before we were ever born.
So if our future is predetermined, how can there be free choice ?
If your god knows that we will choose to do A, we can not do B. In fact, if your god is who you say he is, then it would be impossible to do B.
Either your god doesn't know the future, or we do not have free choice.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:17:04 AM new
Reamond,
Right on that.
CC,
Wrong on that, I chose to be heterosexual. But there is something you and others like you don't seem to understand
In the How Does Gay Marriage hurt anyone, you indicated that god made you striaght. I asked you that quesiton very directly, with the purpose of getting an effective answer from you. I then asked you if god made you straght, then didn't god make gays too. You failed to answer that question. You can't have it both ways.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:18:13 AM newHow will we stop lifestyle spread STD's?
Tell me how you plan to stop straight people from spreading STD's.
Yes, I did say if one of my children choose to be homosexual I would still love them, but I also said I would explain where that choice of lifestyle is wrong, and how, in the end, it will only lead to their destruction.
....spoken from a true religious person who has never had to face that situation yet. And what would you do if your child never spoke to you again? Would you be willing to live with that?
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:20:15 AM newPretty thin reamond, President Bush is not endorsing any kind of homosexuality marriage...
Tell that to Chastain. She is a conserative ring leader. But Bush and Cheney's words are very clear and straight forward. Cheney says same sex marriage is OK, and Bush says same sex uions are OK, just don't call them marriages.
He can't stop people from choosing homosexuality, but that does not mean he endorses it...
But he did endorse sexual orientation, which means there is no choice.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:23:37 AM new
Playing politics...that's all...
Cheney does not endorse homosexual marriages... you have never seen that from him, you only ASSume that because he is not totally against homosexuality...
I would rather have President Bush in office lying to a group of deviant homosexuals than that lying traitor kerry any day...
posted on September 2, 2004 09:28:46 AM new
Apparently you didn't read Chastain's article above which has the quotes from Bush and Cheney. I went and boled the quotes for you ala Linda.
Cheney who has a lesbian daughter, clearly stated that same sex marriage is fine and is a state issue.
Just politics ? Janre Chastain is a big republican christian conservative who is now encouraging chriatians against same sex marriage not to vote for Bush.
posted on September 2, 2004 09:30:36 AM new....spoken from a true religious person who has never had to face that situation yet. And what would you do if your child never spoke to you again? Would you be willing to live with that?
Yes, I would logansdad: but I would never stop praying for them.
Sorry reamond, you and your bigotry towards anything Christian always shows through in your posts. God did create everything, as stated in Genesis Chapter 1.
Just because God knows everything doesn't mean that we do. He allows us to live our lives, making whatever choices we want to make. That is free will; something you can't seem to understand.
If God wanted us to mindlessly obey, He would have done that. Instead, He proves His love for us by allowing us to make choices. To sin or not to sin, that is the real question.
Oh, BTW, this christan church that you embrace is the same church that killed thousands and thousands of people who refused to give up their former religions. I bet your beloved bible doesn't say anything about that, does it?
Yes, the Bible does speak of this: read the Old Testament sometime, about how Israel was cleaning out the Holy Land.
And what about other religions. In the Middle East, if you convert to Christianity, they will kill you. I see you never mention anything about that.
My question should have been phrased: Show me how homosexuality does anything good for society? Homosexuality itself: I understand that there are individuals that choose to be homosexual that can contribute meaningfully to society. But show me where homosexuality in itself does anything positive in society.
In Christ,
Rick
Genesis 1:1
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 2, 2004 09:38:47 AM newJust because God knows everything doesn't mean that we do. He allows us to live our lives, making whatever choices we want to make. That is free will; something you can't seem to understand.
Then what you are positing is that our "free will" is a delusion.
I understand what free will is, but apparently you are unwilling or unable to face the facts about the claims about your god and free will.
If god knows the future, there is in fact no free will.
posted on September 2, 2004 11:24:27 AM newCC says,
Oh, BTW, this christan church that you embrace is the same church that killed thousands and thousands of people who refused to give up their former religions. I bet your beloved bible doesn't say anything about that, does it?
Yes, the Bible does speak of this: read the Old Testament sometime, about how Israel was cleaning out the Holy Land.
I was not talking about what happened as outlined in your bible, the book that you blindly believe in.
I am talking about something of a more recent time. How about the Amish? These people wanted to baptize their children at the age of 18. The christian church didn't like that idea and the answer was to place them in large burlap bags and throw them into the river. Drowning was a fitting punishment for those who didn't want to sprinkle a few drops of water on an infant's forehead. There are no more Amish in Europe. They fled religious persecution by the christian church.
How about the Wicca? In the 1500's, those who failed to give up the "Old Religion", (Wicca) for christianity were killed by the authorities in the christian church. They were stoned, hung, and most often burned alive at the stake. This is commonly known as the Burning Times. How pathetic that your bible doesn't tell you anything about that.
CC also says,
To answer your question, yes, I chose to be heterosexual
But!
On May 27, 2004 you said this........
ChristianCoffee
posted on May 27, 2004 08:36:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda, I understand what you are speaking of: and no matter how many points you bring up, they will continue to call you (me) bigots and such. It's a good thing we have thick skins, and not thick skulls.
As to being straight, God created me that way. You said that you wanted no Christianity brought into this, so I will leave it at that.
Now, should we start calling you slick rick? Did you choose to be straight, or did god create you as being straight? Please choose one and then explain your other comment.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 2, 2004 12:42:18 PM new
It's simple.
God created me to be a heterosexual.
I choose to follow the lifestyle He created me for. I do not choose to follow my own path deviant from Him (also called SIN)
Not contradictory: just simple facts.
In Christ,
Rick
Luke 12:48
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 2, 2004 12:53:09 PM newI choose to follow the lifestyle He created me for. I do not choose to follow my own path deviant from Him (also called SIN)
You are free to live the life you want to live. Just like I am free to live my life (you can argue all you want whether I was born this way or I chose this path). Regardless of what you think, the way you life your life has no direct impact on me or vice versa.
Why is it the religious bible thumpers believe their life is superior to everyone else's life??
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 2, 2004 01:11:26 PM new
I don't think it's superior: but anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior will understand what I am speaking of when i say I live my life with the assurance of where I am going when I die.
See, I already know I am a sinner: Christ Himself has said "no one is good, yea not one, except the Father in Heaven."
However, I also know that when I confess my sin to God through Christ, and repent from them, I am forgiven and in "right accordance" with God.
It's a constant battle: I want to do what my flesh wants more often then what I am supposed to do. Here is an example:
When a hot looking woman walks down the street, it is natural to look at her. However, if I take a second, longer look, I have just sinned in my heart. When that happens, I need to confess my sin to God, and repent of it. Through the shed Blood of Christ I am forgiven: not through anything I do.
See, a Christian cannot get around sin: it is always here. However, we can confess it to God and be forgiven. And through Him, we can conquer it. Not by our own strength, but through what Christ did on the Cross.
And as far as being a "Bible Thumper", there you are wrong. My morals and values are Christ based, not worldly based like your own. I know and understand my Bible and have accepted it: you have chosen not to at this time. Maybe you never will. I cannot answer that.
As to "The Burning Times" and other horrific things some men have done in the name of Jesus Christ, I do not agree with it. However, you must look at both sides of the issue:
When Christianity was in it's infancy, the Roman rulers tried to kill off everyone who proclaimed Christ.
When Christians do what they are called to do, spread the Good News, we are called all kinds of different things. However, isn't it the same thing the secular society does to us on a daily basis? Don't they try to force their belief's down our throats? If you say they do not, then you must be living inside a mirrored house.
And though people may say Christians are only getting their "just desserts", look at what happens in foreign countries to people who proclaim the Gospel. Here is a site you may want to check out:
Read some of the articles and see what happens to people who become Christians around the world.
I would love to continue this now, but I have to run. I should be back later tonight.
in Christ,
Rick
1Ti 6:17-18
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
[ edited by ChristianCoffee on Sep 2, 2004 01:13 PM ]
[ edited by ChristianCoffee on Sep 2, 2004 01:15 PM ]
posted on September 2, 2004 01:22:33 PM new
I don't think it's superior: but anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior will understand what I am speaking of when i say I live my life with the assurance of where I am going when I die.
However, I also know that when I confess my sin to God through Christ, and repent from them, I am forgiven and in "right accordance" with God.
Funny, I know that I will be going to heaven as well when I die. I know that God still loves me as a person and the good things I have done....
You can choose to live your life the way you want and so I will. No matter what we will both end up in the same place
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 2, 2004 01:32:38 PM new
I need to go, but I wanted to answer you:
No, logansdad, we will not end up in the same place. See, Christianity is different because God has already done the work for you to get there, by sending His Son to die for us. The only way in is acceptance of His Son, and following His rules.
If you look at every other religion, you will see that they are karma based, or works based, or some combo of the two. Your "good" must outweigh the "bad", so to speak.
So my question to you is: who will be the judge in the end? Who will decide where you go? And what criteria will He use?
Christianity is simple in that Jesus has already done it for us: He was the Living Sacrifice to get us back to God, to where we belong.
So no, logansdad, based on your beliefs, we will not end up in the same place. But we could: read the book "The Case For Christ" by Lee Stroble. If you need to, send me an email with your address (I don't know how that would work, does Vendio have that type of thing), and I will mail you a copy, free of charge. Then you will see what I am saying.
Really gotta run now, or my kids will wonder if I abandoned them.
In Christ,
Rick
Acts 2;17-47
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 2, 2004 06:26:57 PM new
CC: No, logansdad, we will not end up in the same place. See, Christianity is different because God has already done the work for you to get there, by sending His Son to die for us. The only way in is acceptance of His Son, and following His rules
You are so full of #*!@ it is not funny. Here you accuse me of promoting "my agenda" and that is exactly what you are doing. You have denied you are superior because you believe in God and follow his ways. But that is exactly what you said above --- only if you follow God's teaching will you get into heaven. I feel sorry for you kids in that they actually have to listen to you preach about your holier than now ways.
So my question to you is: who will be the judge in the end? Who will decide where you go? And what criteria will He use?
I am glad it will not be you that judges me when the time comes. It will be God alone.
So no, logansdad, based on your beliefs, we will not end up in the same place. But we could: read the book "The Case For Christ" by Lee Stroble. If you need to, send me an email with your address (I don't know how that would work, does Vendio have that type of thing), and I will mail you a copy, free of charge. Then you will see what I am saying.
And you claim you are not a bible thumper.... Do you go door to door pedaling your faith. I don't need your book. I learned everything I needed to know about being a Catholic for twelve years while in school.
Now go back to watching Jerry Falwell on TV because it is you my friend that needs to learn more about being a Christian.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 2, 2004 07:17:40 PM new
It's a shame you wish to attack, logansdad, when I am trying to help.
I offered you information, and what you do with that offer is your choice.
You really do not know what being a Christian is about, do you? Being a Christian is being a follower of Christ: if you wish to call me a Bible thumper, then so be it. It is no sweat off of my back. Following Christ means keeping His commandments, and when I cannot turning toward Him for forgiveness. And understanding that He died for my sins to reconcile me to God. He is the only way to God: no more animal sacrifices, nothing. He was the sacrifice, and we are the beneficiaries of His love for us.
You are so full of #*!@ it is not funny. Here you accuse me of promoting "my agenda" and that is exactly what you are doing. You have denied you are superior because you believe in God and follow his ways. But that is exactly what you said above --- only if you follow God's teaching will you get into heaven. I feel sorry for you kids in that they actually have to listen to you preach about your holier than now ways.
I am not full of it, I was explaining how your point of view and mine differ: just like you try to explain your points of view to others. And I am sure you feel that your point of view is right, and everyone else's is wrong.
So my question to you is: who will be the judge in the end? Who will decide where you go? And what criteria will He use?
I am glad it will not be you that judges me when the time comes. It will be God alone.
You still have not answered my question. How will God judge you? What criteria will He use? And how are you sure you will measure up?
So no, logansdad, based on your beliefs, we will not end up in the same place. But we could: read the book "The Case For Christ" by Lee Stroble. If you need to, send me an email with your address (I don't know how that would work, does Vendio have that type of thing), and I will mail you a copy, free of charge. Then you will see what I am saying.
And you claim you are not a bible thumper.... Do you go door to door pedaling your faith. I don't need your book. I learned everything I needed to know about being a Catholic for twelve years while in school.
Now go back to watching Jerry Falwell on TV because it is you my friend that needs to learn more about being a Christian.
I know what I need to know about being a Christian. Just because you went to a Catholic school doesn't mean you know about Christianity: i went to one as well. They do not teach about salvation, other then in a very general sense.
I offered you information-free information. If you do not want it that is fine with me. The offer will be there, though.
In Christ,
Rick
1John 5:1-5
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
You have really peaked my interest, not in religion, but in your answers. I have a few questions for you. I am sure that if you truly believe your statements, you will be able to answer these questions fully and with good reason and thought.
1. You always seem to refer to god as a male with the personal pronouns he, him, his. How do you know god was a male? Did he have a penis? Is this something that christians want to, or were forced to believe? Isn't this why woman are viewed as second class beings, and the male counter part as superior?
As to "The Burning Times" and other horrific things some men have done in the name of Jesus Christ, I do not agree with it.
2. Are you saying that you don't think that it happened, or that it did happen and you don't agree that it should not have happened?
3. What about the Amish? What is your position on them? Do you think that they were victims of the christian church? If no, why not? Why aren't there any Amish in Europe anymore?
When Christianity was in it's infancy, the Roman rulers tried to kill off everyone who proclaimed Christ.
4. When was christianity in it's infancy? Why did people need a new religion when they had existing religions? What caused Europe to convert to the new religion when the "Old Religion" served them well?
When Christians do what they are called to do, spread the Good News, we are called all kinds of different things. However, isn't it the same thing the secular society does to us on a daily basis? Don't they try to force their belief's down our throats?
5. How is society trying to trying to force anything down your throats? Do you mean things like the Gay Marriage and Abortion issues? If you don't want a Gay Marriage or an Abortion, then don't get one. That's simple right?
And though people may say Christians are only getting their "just desserts", look at what happens in foreign countries to people who proclaim the Gospel. Here is a site you may want to check out:
6. You are aware that you are talking about the rights of Americans, and the issue of Gay Marriage and Dick Cheney's daughter, right?
See, I already know I am a sinner: Christ Himself has said "no one is good, yea not one, except the Father in Heaven."
7. Isn't it true that heaven and hell are theoretical places, not real in existent, but only in belief, and were created by the christian church? Isn't it true that religions that existed prior to christianity didn't have a heaven and a hell? Also, where exactly do people from other faiths go when they die, (i.e., the hindu, the buddhist) since heaven is only reserved for christians? Are there separate sections of heaven for those people? How do they get in there if they don't believe in the christian faith? Where did American Indians go when they died before they learned the christian religion from European settlers?
When a hot looking woman walks down the street, it is natural to look at her. However, if I take a second, longer look, I have just sinned in my heart.
8. What is the time limit on looking at a hot looking woman? Are there other christians that might feel taking a 5 second look might be OK with the guy upstairs? Who sets the rules on the time limit?
No, logansdad, we will not end up in the same place. See, Christianity is different because God has already done the work for you to get there, by sending His Son to die for us. The only way in is acceptance of His Son, and following His rules.
9. How do you know this? Won't god be the one who decides who goes to heaven and not you?
If you look at every other religion, you will see that they are karma based, or works based, or some combo of the two. Your "good" must outweigh the "bad", so to speak.
10. Are you saying that the christian religion is the correct religion and that all others are incorrect? If you answer YES to that, then you identify yourself as a bigot. Don't you think that there are people in this country that ARE NOT of the christian faith? There are some minority religions that don't hold the power of the christian church. Should their beliefs be discounted or lessened?
You really do not know what being a Christian is about, do you?
11. How is it that you are the one who decides what being a christian is about? Is it possible to you that logan has a personal relationship with his god? If you profess to place a judgment on him, them aren't you disobeying the bible?
That's all for now. Waiting for your answers!
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 5, 2004 07:20:20 PM new
Gosh, away for a few days and the board just fills right up. Now, lets see about answering yeagers questions:
You have really peaked my interest, not in religion, but in your answers. I have a few questions for you. I am sure that if you truly believe your statements, you will be able to answer these questions fully and with good reason and thought.
1. You always seem to refer to god as a male with the personal pronouns he, him, his. How do you know god was a male? Did he have a penis? Is this something that Christians want to, or were forced to believe? Isn't this why woman are viewed as second class beings, and the male counter part as superior?
I refer to God as a male because that is the way He refers to Himself in the Bible. As to women being "second class citizens", that was around long before the Bible was written. In most early cultures, women were considered, along with children, second class citizens.
As to "The Burning Times" and other horrific things some men have done in the name of Jesus Christ, I do not agree with it.
2. Are you saying that you don't think that it happened, or that it did happen and you don't agree that it should not have happened?
I agree that they happened: I used to practice wicca myself. I did it for 14 years. No, I do not believe that it should have happened, but I also cannot go back and change history.
3. What about the Amish? What is your position on them? Do you think that they were victims of the christian church? If no, why not? Why aren't there any Amish in Europe anymore?
I know nothing about the Amish, so I am not qualified to answer this question.
When Christianity was in it's infancy, the Roman rulers tried to kill off everyone who proclaimed Christ.
4. When was christianity in it's infancy? Why did people need a new religion when they had existing religions? What caused Europe to convert to the new religion when the "Old Religion" served them well?
Christianity is the fulfillment of the Old Testament: Christ came to earth to die for our sins. It was in it's infancy when Christ returned to Heaven, and the 12 Apostles were left to spread His Word. Apparently, the "Old Religion" didn't serve Europe well enough, did it.
When Christians do what they are called to do, spread the Good News, we are called all kinds of different things. However, isn't it the same thing the secular society does to us on a daily basis? Don't they try to force their belief's down our throats?
5. How is society trying to trying to force anything down your throats? Do you mean things like the Gay Marriage and Abortion issues? If you don't want a Gay Marriage or an Abortion, then don't get one. That's simple right?
Secular society is always trying to change Christianity and it's beliefs. It does it in school (teaching that "evolution" is fact when there is no basis of it), trying to force Christians to accept sin (look to Canada with homosexual marriage and the hate laws), and cheapening human life (abortion and euthanasia, to name but 2 ways). So no, it's not that simple, because we are called to live in the world, but not of the world.
And though people may say Christians are only getting their "just desserts", look at what happens in foreign countries to people who proclaim the Gospel. Here is a site you may want to check out:
6. You are aware that you are talking about the rights of Americans, and the issue of Gay Marriage and Dick Cheney's daughter, right?
No, I was not. Here is my entire quote:
[b]And though people may say Christians are only getting their "just desserts", look at what happens in foreign countries to people who proclaim the Gospel. Here is a site you may want to check out:
http://www.persecution.com/ [/b]
Don't misquote/misinterpite me when you are questioning me please. this has to do with what Christians go through overseas, and had nothing to do with Cheney.
See, I already know I am a sinner: Christ Himself has said "no one is good, yea not one, except the Father in Heaven."
7. Isn't it true that heaven and hell are theoretical places, not real in existent, but only in belief, and were created by the christian church? Isn't it true that religions that existed prior to christianity didn't have a heaven and a hell? Also, where exactly do people from other faiths go when they die, (i.e., the hindu, the buddhist) since heaven is only reserved for Christians? Are there separate sections of heaven for those people? How do they get in there if they don't believe in the christian faith? Where did American Indians go when they died before they learned the christian religion from European settlers?
Do you want the long or short answer to this multi-faceted question?
To be blunt, the Bible states that God has always revealed Himself to everyone. So no one has an excuse.
Also, Heaven and Hell are real places. You go to one or the other when you die: there is no in-between.
Unfortunately, those who do not believe in Christ go to Hell. However, to answer your question about the Indians and such, Christ died and was buried for 3 days before He rose again. What did He do while He was not on earth? Some theologians believe He went to Hades to preach the Good Word on salvation. For now, this is the best answer I can give you.
When a hot looking woman walks down the street, it is natural to look at her. However, if I take a second, longer look, I have just sinned in my heart.
8. What is the time limit on looking at a hot looking woman? Are there other Christians that might feel taking a 5 second look might be OK with the guy upstairs? Who sets the rules on the time limit?
There is no "time limit", it is what is in your heart that counts when you take the "second look".
No, logansdad, we will not end up in the same place. See, Christianity is different because God has already done the work for you to get there, by sending His Son to die for us. The only way in is acceptance of His Son, and following His rules.
9. How do you know this? Won't god be the one who decides who goes to heaven and not you?
Yes, but I explained why in that post. Logansdad has made no indication that he is a Christian either. As a matter of fact, he appears dead set against them.
If you look at every other religion, you will see that they are karma based, or works based, or some combo of the two. Your "good" must outweigh the "bad", so to speak.
10. Are you saying that the christian religion is the correct religion and that all others are incorrect? If you answer YES to that, then you identify yourself as a bigot. Don't you think that there are people in this country that ARE NOT of the christian faith? There are some minority religions that don't hold the power of the christian church. Should their beliefs be discounted or lessened?
In a word, Yes. And no, I am not a bigot, though you seem to want to make me one. Here is why I say yes (it is also in my sig line):
Yes, Christianity is the one true religion. That may sound awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded, but the simple truth is that Christianity is the only true religion. Jesus said that He alone was the way to the Father (John 14:6), that He alone revealed the Father (Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22). Christians do not go around saying Christianity is the only way because they are arrogant, narrow-minded, stupid, and judgmental. They do so because they believe what Jesus said. They believe in Jesus, who claimed to be God (John 8:58; Exodus 3:14), who forgave sins (Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48), and who rose from the dead (Luke 24:24-29; John 2:19f). Jesus said that He was the only way. Jesus is unique. He was either telling the truth, He was crazy, or He was a liar. But since everyone agrees that Jesus was a good man, how then could He be both good and crazy, or good and a liar? He had to be telling the truth. He is the only way.
Christianity is not just a religion; it is a relationship with God. It is a trusting in Jesus and what He did on the cross (1 Cor. 15:1-4), not on what you can do for yourself (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Buddha didn't rise from the dead, nor did Confucius or Zoroaster. Muhammad didn't fulfill detailed prophecy. Alexander the Great didn't raise the dead or heal the sick. And though there is far less reliable information written about them, they are believed in.
The scripture is right when it says in 1 Pet. 2:7-8, "This precious value, then, is for you who believe. But for those who disbelieve, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the very corner stone,' and, 'A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense'; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed." (NASB).
The Mathematical Odds of Jesus Fulfilling Prophecy
"The following probabilities are taken from Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Moody Press, 1963) to show that coincidence is ruled out by the science of probability. Stoner says that by using the modern science of probability in reference to eight prophecies, ‘we find that the chance that any man might have lived down to the present time and fulfilled all eight prophecies is 1 in 10 to the 17th." That would be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000. In order to help us comprehend this staggering probability, Stoner illustrates it by supposing that "we take 10-17th silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas. They will cover all of the state two feet deep. Now mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly, all over the state. Blindfold a man and tell him that he can travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick up one silver dollar and say that this is the right one. What chance would he have of getting the right one? Just the same chance that the prophets would have had of writing these eight prophecies and having them all come true in any one man."
Stoner considers 48 prophecies and says, "we find the chance that any one man fulfilled all 48 prophecies to be 1 in 10157, or 1 in 10,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 000,000,000."
(This information was taken from the book Evidence that Demands a Verdict, by Josh McDowell.)
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is around 10-79. It should be quite evident that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies by accident. He was who He said He was: the only way (John 14:6).
You really do not know what being a Christian is about, do you?
11. How is it that you are the one who decides what being a christian is about? Is it possible to you that logan has a personal relationship with his god? If you profess to place a judgment on him, them aren't you disobeying the bible?
No, I am not disobeying the Bible by professing "judgment" on him: I am telling him the truth. If logansdad has a personal relationship with his "god", and it is not God, then he has made the decision and not me. I am just providing answers to him.
I hope this answers your questions.
Edited for ubb.
In Christ,
Rick
John 1:1
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
[ edited by ChristianCoffee on Sep 5, 2004 07:27 PM ]
I still don't understand how you claim christianity is the only real religion. So, are you say the millions and millions of other people aren't going to heaven when they die?
What about the people of India and China who practice other religions other that christianity. What happens to them when they die? If they don't believe is christianity, then they don't believe in heaven and hell. Does that make sense to you.
You indicated that you practices wicca for 14 years. I am sure that you understand that wicca was the primary religion of Europe until about 1400 - 1500. Think of your grand parents and then put about 20 greats in front of them. Your great20x grandparents very likely practiced wicca in the fact it was the Old Religion and practiced widely in in that time. Where are their souls now?
Do some research on the Amish. You will find what I said aobut them as being true.
You said look to Canada for homosexual marriage and hate laws. Do you think that having hate laws to protect people are wrong? We have hate laws to protect Blacks in this country, is that wrong?
If American Indians didn't' know about the chirstian religion, isn't it true they couldn't know aobut heaven and hell? So again, what happened to their souls when they died. Were they soulless creatures that have an afterlife? What about a 1 year old child that dies in a car accident. The child has no idea of heaven or hell, so what happens here? Please don't tell me about baptism, because the Amish don't baptize their children until they are 18. That is what they believe in. So what happens to a 10 year old Amish boy who dies in a farm accident?
If there is no "time limit" and it only matters what is in your heart when you look at a hot chick, then can't some guy looks for 10 seconds. It could be that in his heart that would be OK?
If god is the one who will decide who gets into heaven and you won't be the one making the decision, then why are you worrying about logan and others? How is their life having and affect on your life. If god already has a plan for them, and you believe he does, aren't you worrying for nothing? If you think that it's your duty to convert anyone, then you could easily be considered a bible thumper.
Yes, Christianity is the one true religion. That may sound awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded, but the simple truth is that Christianity is the only true religion Isn't it true that christianity is the newer religion and there are many many other religions. Again, what about the other people who practice these other religions, such as hinduism, buddhism and of course wicca? Please don't quote the bible as you did in you last post, because the bible doesn't affect the people of those religions. Isn't that true?
No, I am not disobeying the Bible by professing "judgment" on him:
Doesn't it say in your bible that you shouldn't judge, unless you be judged? You do obey the complete bible, or just parts of it?
Even if you can't go back and change history about The Burning Times, you as a christian are taking part of a modern version of it. That is with the controlling of others in the Gay Marriage issue and the abortion issue.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 6, 2004 06:45:51 AM newI still don't understand how you claim christianity is the only real religion. So, are you say the millions and millions of other people aren't going to heaven when they die?
I cannot explain it any clearer to you. If you don't understand it by now, then there is nothing I can say to help you understand. As to where they are going, God decideds that: but yes, those who do not believe that Jesus is the way to Heaven will not go there.
What about the people of India and China who practice other religions other that christianity. What happens to them when they die? If they don't believe is christianity, then they don't believe in heaven and hell. Does that make sense to you.
Just because an individual does not believe in something that is true doesn't mean they will not suffer the consequences for their actions.
You indicated that you practices wicca for 14 years. I am sure that you understand that wicca was the primary religion of Europe until about 1400 - 1500. Think of your grand parents and then put about 20 greats in front of them. Your great20x grandparents very likely practiced wicca in the fact it was the Old Religion and practiced widely in in that time. Where are their souls now?
Most likely in Hades.
Do some research on the Amish. You will find what I said aobut them as being true.
If I have time I will do that.
You said look to Canada for homosexual marriage and hate laws. Do you think that having hate laws to protect people are wrong? We have hate laws to protect Blacks in this country, is that wrong?
When you cannot even speak out against something without getting punished, that is when hate crimes are wrong. What defines a hate crime, when all crimes are hate crimes. If a person committs rape, they hate women: otherwise they wouldn't committ rape. If a person committs incest, child abuse, or any other such thing they must hate the person/place/thing they are committing the act against. Hate crimes are no more then trying to controll peoples thoughts:"Well, your honor, because Rick is a Christian and he spoke out against homosexuality, he must hate all homosexuals. Ergo, we will punish him more severly then someone who doesn't speak out against it." Nothing but thought police.
If American Indians didn't' know about the chirstian religion, isn't it true they couldn't know aobut heaven and hell? So again, what happened to their souls when they died. Were they soulless creatures that have an afterlife? What about a 1 year old child that dies in a car accident. The child has no idea of heaven or hell, so what happens here? Please don't tell me about baptism, because the Amish don't baptize their children until they are 18. That is what they believe in. So what happens to a 10 year old Amish boy who dies in a farm accident?
Yet again, beating around in circles when I have already answered this type of question.
If there is no "time limit" and it only matters what is in your heart when you look at a hot chick, then can't some guy looks for 10 seconds. It could be that in his heart that would be OK?
"I tell you the truth, a man who looks at a woman with lust in his heart has committed adultry in his heart." A paraphrase from the NT.
If god is the one who will decide who gets into heaven and you won't be the one making the decision, then why are you worrying about logan and others? How is their life having and affect on your life. If god already has a plan for them, and you believe he does, aren't you worrying for nothing? If you think that it's your duty to convert anyone, then you could easily be considered a bible thumper.
I cannot convert anyone: I can only explaine things to them and allow them to make their own decisions. I worry for everyone I know: espically those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. And I pray for those with whom I communicate with.
Yes, Christianity is the one true religion. That may sound awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded, but the simple truth is that Christianity is the only true religion Isn't it true that christianity is the newer religion and there are many many other religions. Again, what about the other people who practice these other religions, such as hinduism, buddhism and of course wicca? Please don't quote the bible as you did in you last post, because the bible doesn't affect the people of those religions. Isn't that true?
I have already answered this, and I do not feel like reiterating myself. Would you like me to copy and paste it here again from my post above?
[i][b]No, I am not disobeying the Bible by professing "judgment" on him:
Doesn't it say in your bible that you shouldn't judge, unless you be judged? You do obey the complete bible, or just parts of it?[/i][/b]
I am not judging anyone, just telling them the facts.
Even if you can't go back and change history about The Burning Times, you as a christian are taking part of a modern version of it. That is with the controlling of others in the Gay Marriage issue and the abortion issue.
No, I don't think so. Where are people being unfairly tried so others can obtain their wealth? Where are people being beheaded, burned and stoned for believing in homosexuality and abortion? There is no comparison here, except...
for modern Christians. A Christian who goes to Canada and speaks out on the sin of homosexuality can be arrested. A Christian who stands on a street corner in North Korea will be arrested and sentenced to 10 years in prison. A person in Saudi Arabia that converts a muslum to a Christian will be scourged, and then either drawn and quartered or stoned to death. The list goes on and on, and yet people who accept Christ as their personal Savior are more then willing to accept this because we know where we are going, and we know we are doing what the Lord calls us to do. There is no inbetween, as I have said: you are either on the side of Jesus Christ, or against Him. You cannot get around it.
In Christ,
Rick
2Ti 4:8
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
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Prevent Bigotry through Education.
