posted on September 6, 2004 09:38:14 AM new
Damn! Just when Bush wanted everyone concentrating on Kerry's records, some loudmouth had to bring this up!
Seems somepertinent pieces of paper are missing...
WASHINGTON - Documents that should have been written to explain gaps in President Bush's Texas Air National Guard service are missing from the military records released about his service in 1972 and 1973, according to regulations and outside experts.
For example, Air National Guard regulations at the time required commanders to write an investigative report for the Air Force when Bush missed his annual medical exam in 1972. The regulations also required commanders to confirm in writing that Bush received counseling after missing five months of drills.
No such records have been made public and the government told The Associated Press in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit that it has released all records it can find.
Outside experts suggest that National Guard commanders may not have produced documentation required by their own regulations.
"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have been better," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head of the Air National Guard. He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.
Challenging the government's declaration that no more documents exist, the AP identified five categories of records that should have been generated after Bush skipped his pilot's physical and missed five months of training.
"Each of these actions by any member of the National Guard should have generated the creation of many documents that have yet to be produced," AP lawyer David Schulz wrote the Justice Department Aug. 26.
White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said there were no other documents to explain discrepancies in Bush's files.
Military service during the Vietnam War has become an issue in the presidential election as both candidates debate the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Democrat John Kerry commanded a Navy Swift boat in Vietnam and was awarded five medals, including a Silver Star. But his heroism has been challenged in ads by some veterans who support Bush.
The president served stateside in the Air National Guard during Vietnam. Democrats have accused him of shirking his Guard service and getting favored treatment as the son of a prominent Washington figure.
The AP talked to experts unaffiliated with either campaign who have reviewed Bush's files for missing documents. They said it was not unusual for guard commanders to ignore deficiencies by junior officers such as Bush. But they said missing a physical exam, which caused him to be grounded, was not common.
"It's sort of like a code of honor that you didn't go DNF (duty not including flying)," said retired Air Force Col. Leonard Walls, who flew 181 combat missions over Vietnam. "There was a lot of pride in keeping combat-ready status."
Bush has said he fulfilled all his obligations. He was in the Texas Air National Guard from 1968 to 1973 and was trained to fly F-102 fighters.
"I'm proud of my service," Bush told a rally last weekend in Lima, Ohio.
Records of Bush's service have significant gaps, starting in 1972. Bush has said he left Texas that year to work on the unsuccessful Senate campaign in Alabama of family friend Winton Blount.
The five kinds of missing files are:
_A report from the Texas Air National Guard to Bush's local draft board certifying that Bush remained in good standing. The government has released copies of those DD Form 44 documents for Bush for 1971 and earlier years but not for 1972 or 1973. Records from Bush's draft board in Houston do not show his draft status changed after he joined the guard in 1968. The AP obtained the draft board records Aug. 27 under the Freedom of Information Act.
_Records of a required investigation into why Bush lost flight status. When Bush skipped his 1972 physical, regulations required his Texas commanders to "direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination," according to the Air Force manual at the time. An investigative report was supposed to be forwarded "with the command recommendation" to Air Force officials "for final determination."
Bush's spokesmen have said he skipped the exam because he knew he would be doing desk duty in Alabama. But Bush was required to take the physical by the end of July 1972, more than a month before he won final approval to train in Alabama.
_A written acknowledgment from Bush that he had received the orders grounding him. His Texas commanders were ordered to have Bush sign such a document; but none has been released.
_Reports of formal counseling sessions Bush was required to have after missing more than three training sessions. Bush missed at least five months' worth of National Guard training in 1972. No documents have surfaced indicating Bush was counseled or had written authorization to skip that training or make it up later. Commanders did have broad discretion to allow guardsmen to make up for missed training sessions, said Weaver and Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel chief during the Reagan administration from 1981 to 1985.
"If you missed it, you could make it up," said Korb, who now works for the Center for American Progress, which supports Kerry.
_A signed statement from Bush acknowledging he could be called to active duty if he did not promptly transfer to another guard unit after leaving Texas. The statement was required as part of a Vietnam-era crackdown on no-show guardsmen. Bush was approved in September 1972 to train with the Alabama unit, more than four months after he left Texas.
Bush was approved to train in September, October and November 1972 with the Alabama Air National Guard's 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group. The only record tying Bush to that unit is a dental exam at the group's Montgomery base in January 1973. No records have been released giving Bush permission to train with the 187th after November 1972.
Walls, the Air Force combat veteran, was assigned to the 187th in 1972 and 1973 to train its pilots to fly the F-4 Phantom. Walls and more than a dozen other members of the 187th say they never saw Bush. One member of the unit, retired Lt. Col. John Calhoun, has said he remembers Bush showing up for training with the 187th.
Pay records show Bush was credited for training in January, April and May 1973; other files indicate that service was outside Texas.
A May 1973 yearly evaluation from Bush's Texas unit gives the future president no ratings and stated Bush had not been seen at the Texas base since April 1972. In a directive from June 29, 1973, an Air Force personnel official pressed Bush's unit for information about his Alabama service.
"This officer should have been reassigned in May 1972," wrote Master Sgt. Daniel P. Harkness, "since he no longer is training in his AFSC (Air Force Service Category, or job title) or with his unit of assignment."
Then-Maj. Rufus G. Martin replied Nov. 12, 1973: "Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73. Report for this period not available for administrative reasons."
By then, Texas Air National Guard officials had approved Bush's request to leave the guard to attend Harvard Business School; his last days of duty were in July 1973.
posted on September 6, 2004 09:54:22 AM new
Doesn't matter, again Pres Bush has NEVER commented on what is missing in kerrys military records(100 pages kerry refuses to release). He doesn't have to. Many others are already doing that.
posted on September 6, 2004 10:02:29 AM new
Bush's Texas Air National Guard Records Incomplete
President Says He Fulfilled All His Requirements As Guard Pilot
POSTED: 3:01 pm EDT September 5, 2004
UPDATED: 3:17 pm EDT September 5, 2004
WASHINGTON -- Documents that should have been written to explain gaps in President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard service are missing from the military records released about his service in 1972 and 1973, according to regulations and outside experts.
For example, Air National Guard regulations at the time required commanders to write an investigative report for the Air Force when Bush missed his annual medical exam in 1972. The regulations also required commanders to confirm in writing that Bush received counseling after missing five months of drills.
No such records have been made public and the government told The Associated Press in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit that it has released all records it can find.
Outside experts suggest that National Guard commanders may not have produced documentation required by their own regulations.
"One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have been better," said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head of the Air National Guard. He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.
Challenging the government's declaration that no more documents exist, the AP identified five categories of records that should have been generated after Bush skipped his pilot's physical and missed five months of training.
"Each of these actions by any member of the National Guard should have generated the creation of many documents that have yet to be produced," AP lawyer David Schulz wrote the Justice Department Aug. 26.
White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said there were no other documents to explain discrepancies in Bush's files.
posted on September 6, 2004 11:11:23 AM new
According to reports even clinton has called and advised kerry to get off the subject of his VN service. I don't think it's going to happen, but we'll see shortly.
kerry's ego has been built around his 4 month service, which he tried to avoid and when he couldn't got out of 'dodge' asap. It's a lifelong political 'bragging' point with him and I don't think he'll be ABLE to let it go.
No one can prove that this President has ever said anything about kerry's VN service, because he hasn't. It's continually stated and he's blamed for it...but it hasn't happened in reality.
This President has not make his service a campaign issue like kerry has. In kerry's campaign it's been his CENTRAL focus point....and now that other VN vets are pointing out truths...kerry just can't handle that. Free speech and all.
posted on September 6, 2004 11:20:00 AM new
interesting. i just saw, not even 5 minutes ago, a few shots of a Kerry rally where there were tons of American Veterans who were holding up Kerry signs. Looks like another neo-con lie by Bear. Nice try Bear... your simple minded attempts to contribute are weak.
posted on September 6, 2004 02:03:48 PM new
I know the cheerleaders, mascots and *cheer team*, when I was in school were the most popular, friendly and outgoing people in school. Many envied their popularity....their great school spirit.
posted on September 6, 2004 02:08:45 PM newThe fact remains that GW and DC are unfit to run this country.
The fact remains that GW doesn't need to constantly mention his 4 month service 35 years ago. He's running, currently, on how well he handled the terrorist strike three years ago.
Much more current info than the dems are trying to focus on...his honorable discharge all those years ago.
Just working to avoid having the focus on the Swift Boat Vets and what their book and statements have done to kerry's numbers. lol
posted on September 6, 2004 02:21:07 PM new
GW looks like he's having a gay ole time. Really cute in his cheerleaders outfit. I find it funny how he likes to still play dress up.
posted on September 6, 2004 03:25:05 PM new
You forgot one thing Linda they are atheletic and have to go by the athletic code.
Did Kerry ever play football? If he did he should have used that as his platform instead of Vietnam maybe there would be some that could relate to that. I know I would but because I could not understand how 1 person in 4 months could get 4 purple hearts, hardly an injury and then get early out from armed services.
posted on September 6, 2004 03:33:23 PM new
Isn't it funny how homosexuals insult men by intimating they to are homosexuals... is it because they know that homosexuality is wrong and are ashamed of the choice they made?
posted on September 6, 2004 03:42:22 PM newSo kiara all male cheerleaders are girlie-men?
Twelvepole, I don't lump everyone into one group like some here do. Some male cheerleaders may be girlie-men. Some may just enjoy being cheerleaders. Others may do it so they can hang out with the female cheerleaders. I've never hung out with male cheerleaders so I'm not certain what kind of man does that.
Why? Are/were you one too? If so, please let me see a picture of you. RAH RAH !!
posted on September 6, 2004 03:59:18 PM new
"I don't give a good goddam* if you want to be a cheerleader. Your father and I have decided you are going to play sports, like all the other little boys, mister sissy britches. Now get your hands off of your damned hips, you little pansy, and fetch me a scotch on the rocks!" -- Mrs. George H. W. (Barbara) Bush, 1954
posted on September 6, 2004 04:06:37 PM new
Oh Yeah.. I remember all the good looking cheerleaders lining up to get a date with the male cheerleaders... LOL LOL..
I'd say 99% were gay and the other 1% weren't sure.. hee hee.. Doc
posted on September 6, 2004 04:17:22 PM new
I have serious doubt about Bush's "honorable" discharge. If pulled strings could get him into the cushy NG unit immediately, bypassing other applicants altogether & despite his abymsal scores, I have no doubt that other strings could be pulled to get him out "honorably" despite going AWOL & missing mandated exams.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on September 6, 2004 07:13:16 PM new
You are lumping ALL male cheerleaders together... damn you can't even keep your insults straight anymore.. alzheimers kicking in?
But then you tell so many at times... I guess it would be hard to keep track...
posted on September 6, 2004 07:22:27 PM newSome male cheerleaders may be girlie-men. Some may just enjoy being cheerleaders. Others may do it so they can hang out with the female cheerleaders. I've never hung out with male cheerleaders so I'm not certain what kind of man does that.
That's what I said.
I'll talk slow and in short sentences
because bear's pics stretched the page.
I said I wasn't familiar with male cheerleaders.
So I wasn't certain what kind of man they are.
Or if they are all girlie-men.
Or maybe just a few are.
You sound a bit testy, my Dear.
Are you trying to tell me in a roundabout way
...................
that you are a girlie-man??
If so, it's okay.
I won't think any less of you than I do now.
I don't think it's going to happen, but we'll see shortly.
