posted on September 12, 2004 02:23:45 PM new
maggie - To me, it's not a matter of 'putting up with'...but rather having the 'tools' to keep it from getting that bad in the first place. Today we are so estranged from our families...maybe our parents didn't work their own marriages out.
But to me I believe all the people I know who have remained in very long term marriages didn't experience the 'tramas' you speak of. But when they did look at their partner and think they hated them...they realized that's a normal process we all go though...and let it pass. When the time was right, talked it out. Talked about what had happened that caused those strong negative emotions.
That's what I think is wrong today with many marriages, there's not a recognition that it won't always be lovey-dovey. There are going to be hard times....and that's where the initial committment comes into play. Choising to work though those problems, not run away from them.
Many second marriages last a shorter period of time than the first marriages did. Why? Because those people put the blame on their first spouse for being so terrible...while their second spouse may not have irritated them in the same exact ways....but they learn they had their own issues that irritated them.
posted on September 12, 2004 03:42:22 PM new
marriage is not an institute for prostitution,man and woman share their life together to raise a family.
The mother is best suited to raise children at home.
as for prenuptial agreement etc,many couples marry out of school before they accumulate any assets,so there is no need for prenuptial.
Match makers who go about matching making like conducting a business deal will miss the most important ingredients-the chemistry,the physical attraction .
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 12, 2004 04:00:17 PM new
Linda you are correct, people today choose not to work through problems, they have been taught confrontation is bad...
Divorce is so simple... then of course you have those that refuse to be monogomous...both men and women but one they can come home to.
posted on September 12, 2004 04:12:51 PM new
Wrong Stop..
Marriage is a contract.. anyway you look at it. The prostitution angle comes from both the Male and Female perspectives.. how many times have you heard... I support her well, so she better take care of my needs.. or he wants sex, then I better see that new car in the driveway..attitude.. your lying if you say you never have..
Times have changed thank god.. and our generation is more on an equal footing..most women have a career and don't depend on their husbands to support them. But in the old day, the wife's job was to take care of the husband , home and kids.. marriage has always been a contract, you can sugar coat it with love, lust, and all the other good things.. but in the end you both signed on the dotted line and you both have obligations to fulfill.
I disagree with you about Matchmakers missing the essential ingredients, love, emotion etc.. Bologna... are you telling me that we are only able to find love and physical attraction with one person in this lifetime?
Trust me.. if you marry five different times.. you will find love with each.... physical attraction isn't the problem either.. Remember with a matchmaker you have many choices to look at..and each has met your prerequisites.. If he has what I am looking for and I have what he is looking for.. where is the problem..it is up front and out in the open.. no surprises..
posted on September 12, 2004 04:25:19 PM new
I say, why bother Twelve. If I give my man my love and devotion.. and he chooses to disrespect me in one way or another.. why in gods name should I try to work it out.. no way.. it's time for his butt to meet Mr.Curb.
No second chances.. just a parting smile and whisper in his ear as you show him the door.. "You've just lost the best thing you'll ever find in this lifetime" Mister Man.. have a good life.. and you know what.. every word is the truth.
One of my EX's told me years after I divorced him.. that I was right.. he never remarried.. told me once you have had the best.. you can't settle for anything less.. LOL Maggie
posted on September 12, 2004 04:34:06 PM new
Since I have fallen deeply in "love" about a milion times or so I think it's downright stupid to stay with someone you can't stand, or who abuses you or your kids, or drinks their paycheck away.
First, if a couple hates each other's guts, the kids KNOW! What the heII kind of example is that to set?
If you have to "work" at marriage it better be overbalanced with fun! Like Maggie says, you go around ONE time, why be unhappy(unless you LIKE the martyr role). Cripes some people in here make it sound like a punishment!
If you're doing more work than you are enjoying yourself why not get out!
And it is good to talk but sometimes it's much better to just shut up and give the other person a rest!
Divorce is easy but so is getting married. Maybe instead of getting all gooey eyed when your 18 year old says they want to get married you step back and offer some advice on waiting. And if they do get married don't keep asking "when am I going to have a grandchild(because YOU owe me one)".
To me having kids right away spells trouble, you and your spouse won't HAVE a conversation for 20 more years!
And then when the last one leaves you are sitting there looking at a stranger who you may discover you don't like!
Before I forget, women who choose to stick out an abusive marriage and "work" through the problems usually end up dead.
Very stupid advice to stay.
posted on September 12, 2004 05:57:36 PM new
I have to agree with Linda on this one.
Marriage is something you have to work at. Any time you're living 24/7 with someone else there are going to be times of stress or disagreement that have to be worked through. Far too many people go into marriage expecting it to be one long love fest with nary a quarrel or problem. And when reality intervenes, they are far too quick to walk out on the deal without making a real attempt to work through the problems. And children, if you are realistic, can add to that stress.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on September 12, 2004 06:25:21 PM new
lindak said, "But to me I believe all the people I know who have remained in very long term marriages didn't experience the 'tramas' you speak of. But when they did look at their partner and think they hated them...they realized that's a normal process we all go though...and let it pass. When the time was right, talked it out. Talked about what had happened that caused those strong negative emotions."
lindak is wrong to say that "hating your marriage partner is a normal process that we all go through". That's simply not true.
Helen
[ edited by Helenjw on Sep 12, 2004 07:08 PM ]
posted on September 12, 2004 07:01:36 PM new
there is just a very thin line between love and hatred.
same with sanity vs insanity.
back to lapdance,when female dancer sits on the lap of a male customer and gyrate around on his lap,how can he sit tight with his hands un??
and if she sits on a female customer,how long can she bear the weight??
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 12, 2004 07:03:16 PM new
oh helen - I was taking that word from maggie's post about hating your spouse so much you wanted to see a rope around their neck.
But all the couples I know have said there have been times when they've just absolutely hated one another - they were so upset about something. Thought they couldn't stand to look at one another for one more minute.
I'll never forget the words the preacher said to us in our pre-marriage counseling. "XXX and XXXXX, a good marriage doesn't just happen. You have to work to make it happen." That's all I was trying to say.
My Aunt and Uncle will be married 72 years this September 28th and both have helped/supported my husband and I though our own difficult times. My husband's grandparents were married 55 years when his grandfather died. Other couples married longer than we were also gave encouragement about how they worked similar problems out. They believed in marriage and supported ours by helping us over the 'bumps' that always come up.
Like bunni mentioned the stress of raising children - how one thinks something should be handled THIS way - when maybe your spouse thinks it should be done differently. You usually marry to have a family. Then those wonderful gifts can cause a lot of stress between a couple - some more than others. I think it's important to always stay focused on the primary relationship...not put it aside for the child rearing years and then find a stranger looking across the room at you.
That's where the 'work' comes in, imo. 'Working' to make sure you do things together - as a couple. 'Working' to *make* the time to have quite discussion together. Working to be sure the children don't interfere with your intimate times together. When there are disagreements realizing what's most important in your life....the relationship....not winning all the arguments but being willing to compromise.
Then when the children are grown and maybe gone you have this renewed sense of freedom and you can 'play' more freely as a couple now....the responsiblity of raising your children is lessened to a great degree. And you have half a lifetime of memories to reflect upon with one another. A history that makes you glad you were willing to work through all those 'bumps' that life presented you with. Memories that can never be taken away.
posted on September 12, 2004 07:14:37 PM new"You've just lost the best thing you'll ever find in this lifetime" Mister Man"
Hey, I say that too Maggie! And out of the hundreds I've told off, not one has been man enough to come back and tell me I was right.
P.S. The guy I went out with before Mr. Kraft was really taken by me and I knew it. I would act totally confident when he was around and tried to impress him with my being well versed in the book of total knowledge. He would stare at me a lot and I knew he was trying to comprehend how he was lucky enough to meet someone as remarkable as myself. After a couple of months, I hadn't heard from him in a few days and called his brother to find out if he was OK. His brother told me he was engaged and had been trying to tell me about it for weeks but I never shut up long enough for him to get the words out.
posted on September 12, 2004 07:32:23 PM new
thats funny,kraftdinner.
I often wonder if all the women just shut up ,men would find them more attractive.
on this married couple hating each other,i just like to say,as the days go by and by and they know their days are numbered,they will cease to fight and just cherish their days together as much as they can.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on September 12, 2004 07:54:23 PM new
ROFLMAO KRAFTY... you crack me up.. hee hee
Hey Stop.. what seems to be your problem!!
with your "let's get back to the lap dancing and gyrating stuff.." Ewuee...please try and contain yourself while we are all here chatting... lol
posted on September 12, 2004 07:57:51 PM new
Well I had a good nap, I finally got rid of my headache and I am thinking more clearly now.
Stopwhining
I think you are just going to have to get your man friend to take you to a strip bar so's you can find out for yourself. Also to be clear, I only go to strip bars maybe once every 2 or 3 months or so. I am not as much of a sex fiend as it may appear. I am master of my own domain and in control.
As far as the love and marriage issue I can tell you this that I agree with Crowfarm when she says; if a couple hates each other's guts, the kids KNOW! Coming from a broken home myself, as a child I saw just how badly 2 people can treat each other. There was violence and mental abuse from both of them towards each other and sometimes directed towards us as kids. I am glad that my parents divorced because one of them probably would have killed the other. It got so bad that we kids had to hide the guns. There was no way that they could have worked it out even with couseling.
Sorry to lay all of this on ya'll, it was a long time ago and while writing this it brought back some very bad memories. I kinda like to think though that all that I witnessed as a child molded my thinking towards women and relationships in general and because of the abuse I saw my Mother get from my Dad I guess I would like to think that there has to be a better way to live and to treat each other in a relationship and maybe to just love and honor is not such a bad idea afterall.
posted on September 12, 2004 08:13:40 PM new
Yellow.. sorry to hear about your difficult times as a child.. Divorce isn't easy on kids either, but sometimes it is the better of two bad situations.
Stop.. is a woman!!?? How did I not know that? If it's any consolation STOP.. I pictured you as a very nice looking guy..Maggie..
posted on September 12, 2004 08:51:03 PM new
My ex and She Who Must Be Obeyed are friends. Good friends. In fact, we're all friends. My ex left me for one reason. After the two girls came, I wanted more kids, and she didn't. After my son was born, SWMBO said "don't make the same mistake twice, Papi, this one is all you get". Sometimes it's like I have two families. One that lives here, and one that lives a hundred miles away, but shows up at least two weekends a month to help with the ranch. Even the ex comes. I know it's odd, there's no rancor, no arguments.. beyond thier normal telling me to shut up and quit bitching about stuff.. I'm a lucky pendejo, that's for sure!
posted on September 12, 2004 10:20:40 PM new
Hmmmmm, check this out. For the heck of it I just read my horoscope on AOL and it sure seems to make sense as far as what I have written in this thread and as far as how my week went.
"Your week has contained a large amount of intensity -- even bordering obsession -- as you've pushed toward your goals with unwavering will power. Now, however, you may be thinking outside of the box, not that you aren't being practical. Make the most of this unique combination of free thought and sensible follow-through. You might as well use your energy productively while you have it."
posted on September 13, 2004 11:15:18 AM new
Maggie: Times have changed thank god.. and our generation is more on an equal footing..most women have a career and don't depend on their husbands to support them. But in the old day, the wife's job was to take care of the husband , home and kids.. marriage has always been a contract, you can sugar coat it with love, lust, and all the other good things.. but in the end you both signed on the dotted line and you both have obligations to fulfill.
Maggie, I would have to agree with you on this one. I think the women today are more independent than they were in the 40's 50's and 60's. Women today do not have to stay home and raise the kids and clean the house. They do not need to depend on the husband. They want the same thing as the husband - a good paying a job and the freedom to contribute to the household expenses. I also feel that with two parents working this creates more stress within the household and leads to more fights/arguments (both verbal and physical) which then leads to the topic of divorce.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 13, 2004 12:53:28 PM new
logansdad says,"Women today do not have to stay home and raise the kids and clean the house. "
Yup, now they have to work AND raise the kids and clean the house, and take care of the other alleged adult, their husband.
Two people working does contribute to more stress especially with children involved. This can very often lead to divorce. Too bad our society requires two incomes to make it. What a nice life in this the"greatest country in the world" if one parent (mother OR father) could be home. But it ain't going to happen....not in this economy.
posted on September 13, 2004 01:22:39 PM new
Now here's a topic I could talk about all day (and often do!). First, Twelve was asking about internet dating earlier and wanting to know how its gone for some of us who actually went that route so this link is for him. Scroll down to my post in which I detailed my experience (assuming you have time to kill on a total stranger's ramblings). Its been a few years since I wrote that post and some things have changed - kids have gotten older, we moved from the left coast to the right coast, but the core feelings I expressed in that post are still very much alive and well.
As for working or not working out a marriage I agree with several posters here, even though they seem to be debating different sides of the issue. As someone who has been through a divorce I obviously support the idea of divorce. When I divorced my first wife, we did not have any children and very little assets so the divorce was realtively painless in terms of "collateral damage." I wanted to work it out and attempted for the better part of two years to try and find some way to make it work. But in the end, there was a communication break-down that just couldn't be repaired. Neither of us were happy and it finally got to a point where it felt very much like living with a roomate and not a lover. I did not divorce lightly and even though I knew it was right, I was extremely emotional the day I filed.
All that said, it was absolutely the best thing for each of us. As my post above describes, I couldn't have found a better person to share my life with than I did and from what I hear about my ex, she, too, found happiness with another. I shudder to think what my life would be like today had I not finally left a loveless marriage.
But all that said, I do think some people in the circle of people I know very well have divorced very quickly at the first sign of trouble. Of course thats their decision and I certainly have no say in the matter but I do wonder sometimes how one feels strongly enough to marry only to completly lose that feeling in the matter of a few months. My siblings (one older brother, one younger sister) both got married, had a child and then quickly dovorced while the kids were very little. Now their kids are growing up on what my wife and I call the "divorce plan." One week with mommy, next with Daddy, rinse repeat. Its hard on the kids to be sure. Different sets of rules, different households, step parents, etc. My brother is constantly taking vacations and doing all kinds of things because every other week he's got no responsibilities. He tells me I need to get out more than I do, and I tell him maybe I will when I'm on the divorce plan, lol.
So in the case of my siblings (who I know fairly well, you might say), some of what went in to their divorce decision was a loss of the life they used to have before having a child. Now that they are divorced, they have a huge amount of freedom again. Long periods without the kids around. And therein lies a big problem I see (again, I'm talking about the people I know and not everyone who divorces) - that is, people want to get back freedoms they think they've lost. Of course my opinion is that those kinds of things should be thought about before having children but life isn't perfect.
There are a lot of issues that can be discussed regarding marriage and I spend a lot of time talking about these things with my wife, our friends and my parents (who are not thrilled about the divorce plans my sibs are on) and therefore could preattle on all day here. I'll stop here though.
posted on September 13, 2004 05:49:43 PM new
Love-when 2 persons love each other,they take care of each other.
There is no need for a contract to have dinner on the table and car in the driveway(provided they have the means to buy grocery and car)
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
you have this renewed sense of freedom and you can 'play' more freely as a couple now....the responsiblity of raising your children is lessened to a great degree. And you have half a lifetime of memories to reflect upon with one another. A history that makes you glad you were willing to work through all those 'bumps' that life presented you with. Memories that can never be taken away. 
Divorce isn't easy on kids either, but sometimes it is the better of two bad situations.
