posted on September 21, 2004 02:07:32 AM new
There seem to be several people here that can be easily unidentified as from the religious right. Today, them seemed to be engaged in the fight to remove abortion rights for women, and the reversal and containment of the Gay Marriage issue.
Let's say they are successful at these endeavorers. Will they be satisfied at that, or will they have other items to becomes involved in. Any comments on these people?
This is an equality thread, and I approve of it's content.
posted on September 21, 2004 08:19:09 AM new
The American Taliban christian right will not be satisfied until they control all aspects of your personal life.
posted on September 21, 2004 08:40:48 AM new
Yeager explain what is christian right?
Maybe there are women here that don't believe in abortion as it is our right to have an opinion BUT we don't push the agenda like you do on Gay Rights. So what do we call you and logansdad?
posted on September 21, 2004 08:45:27 AM new
LOL reamond.
Libra, anyone that doesn't hold their same position/view is considered the Christian right....whether they are Christians or not.
"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe today that we are not safer with his capture, don´t have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president." - john kerry
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"These dizzying contradictions -- so glaring, so public, so frequent -- have gone beyond undermining anything Kerry can now say on Iraq. They have been transmuted into a character issue."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"What kind of man, aspiring to the presidency, does not know his own mind about the most serious issue of our time?" - Charles Krauthammer
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posted on September 21, 2004 09:58:37 AM new
Libra,
you can call me anything that you would like, I don't care.
Linda,
I am sure that you could have easily explained to libra what the christian right is all about.
In case you can't or won't, I will. The christian right or religious right most often becomes involved in these area of American personal life.
Banning or heavily restricting abortion.
Opposition to the gay rights movement and the upholding of what they consider to be "traditional family values".
Opposition to the practice of gay or straight "sodomy" (usually meaning anal sex or oral sex outside of marriage though sometimes within too). How would they know if that was practiced in the privacy of one's home?
Support for the presence of Christianity in the public sphere, such as with prayer in school.
Ending government funding restrictions against religious charities and schools, and similar matters.
Opposition to U.S. court decisions widening the separation of church and state beyond historical tradition.
Banning of books, music, television programs, films, etc. that view as indecent.
Many elements of the Christian Right sympathize with, support, and sometimes influence the United States Republican Party. For example, such support is thought to have provided considerable backing for the campaign of U.S. President George W. Bush.
Is that clear enough Libra?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 21, 2004 11:39:57 AM new
I guess kerry would be considered to be considerred from the Christian right too then.
He's Catholic...goes to church every week. He quotes the Bible at political speeches.
He opposes gay marriage.
He opposes abortion.
He's just willing to trade in his religous values for a shot at the Presidency.
"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe today that we are not safer with his capture, don´t have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president." - john kerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"These dizzying contradictions -- so glaring, so public, so frequent -- have gone beyond undermining anything Kerry can now say on Iraq. They have been transmuted into a character issue."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"What kind of man, aspiring to the presidency, does not know his own mind about the most serious issue of our time?" - Charles Krauthammer
------------
posted on September 21, 2004 12:11:59 PM new
Their agenda is to keep everyone moral as per the current interpretation of the current Bible they've been taught to believe is fact. According to them, God stands behind them and everything they say and do, especially if it's done "in God's name". On the other hand, in their eyes, the immoral people have nobody backing them up and no heaven to enter, which only strengthens their beliefs.
Although the Bible is a great piece of literature, to me the book is a test to see if we follow God or blindly follow this man-made piece of literature without knowing the true meaning of God.
posted on September 21, 2004 03:14:46 PM new
Libra,
you can call me anything that you would like, I don't care. I asked you first, what do you call yourself and logansdad? gay left? It seems like you sterotype people without knowing the facts.
Linda,
I am sure that you could have easily explained to libra what the christian right is all about. Christian is spelled with a capital C that is why I asked you what is christian right. I spell Christian with a capital C as I am a Christian
In case you can't or won't, I will. The christian right or religious right most often becomes involved in these area of American personal life. As do the democrats, proof is Kerry makes it known that he does go to church. He is now closing his speeches with "God Bless America' which he didn't do before.
Banning or heavily restricting abortion. taking a human life is against the law. [b]
Opposition to the gay rights movement and the upholding of what they consider to be "traditional family values". gay couples are not the traditional family
Opposition to the practice of gay or straight "sodomy" (usually meaning anal sex or oral sex outside of marriage though sometimes within too). How would they know if that was practiced in the privacy of one's home? sodomy is illegal
Support for the presence of Christianity in the public sphere, such as with prayer in school. prayer is only allowed in parochial or private schools. Parents send their children to Parochial schools to get the religion they teach.
Ending government funding restrictions against religious charities and schools, and similar matters. show me proof of that
Opposition to U.S. court decisions widening the separation of church and state beyond historical tradition. Show proof of this.
Banning of books, music, television programs, films, etc. that view as indecent. You said it indecent, they are allowed to adult viewers, you can watch all the porn you want but not children
Many elements of the Christian Right sympathize with, support, and sometimes influence the United States Republican Party. For example, such support is thought to have provided considerable backing for the campaign of U.S. President George W. Bush. what is the problem with this. I can support who I wish as can everyone else. The last time I looked it is a free country.
Is that clear enough Libra? Well no it isn't clear.
posted on September 21, 2004 03:27:13 PM new
Libra - What I find so funny from yeager and his supporters in religion bashing...is the fact that by calling *all* who agree with *any* of the issues he mentions, labels the 'Christian right' he/they totally discounts the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of democrats who also agree with the so called Christian right on these issues. There are in fact Christian dems. There are in fact people who profess no religion at all...who might be in agreement with the views of the Christian right and left.
It's not like only righties are the Christian right and the Christian left or all the agnostic's can be ignored. They would have opinions too.
And yes, I could have explained it...he already knows the answer....he just wants to argue and I wasn't in the mood. The lower case usually is meant to show disrespect....like I do when mentioning clinton or kerry.
posted on September 21, 2004 10:29:43 PM new
Libra,
Good for you! If you want to be a christian, then go for it. I wouldn't want to associate myself with such a group that rationalizes hate the way they do.
I call myself a swing voter, usually voting republican, but due to Bush's asinine stunts, I will be voting for Kerry.
taking a human life is against the law The government stuck down the laws against abortion in 1973. You are 31 years behind time. Time to buy a new calendar. If you don't want an abortion, then don't get one. There is no law forcing you to get one.
gay couples are not the traditional family What is the traditional family. I got it now. The man and woman who gets married in a church by a priest or pastor, then gets divorced 5 short years later. If you don't want a Gay Marriage, then don't get one. Nobody id forcing you to marry a person of the same sex.
sodomy is illegal Here again you are behind times. The Supreme Court struck down all laws regarding this. What is the christian right going to do? Go around in the middle of the night with flashlights peering in the bedroom windows of every person in America.
Support for the presence of Christianity in the public sphere, such as with prayer in school That statement says public sphere which means practiced in the public area, such as schools. I don't know about you, but I don't want any bible thumper telling my kids how to pray in any setting. Especially one that I PAY FOR!
Opposition to U.S. court decisions widening the separation of church and state beyond historical tradition. Show proof of this. Placing the 10 commandment in public building is one example. There goal is to mainstream the christian religion without regard to the religion of others, and to have the US government to recognize it as the "correct religion". They feel they are the "only real religion" If you don't believe me, ask christian coffee. He will tell you this.
Banning of books, music, television programs, films, etc. that view as indecent. You said it indecent, they are allowed to adult viewers, you can watch all the porn you want but not children That wasn't the point of WHO was viewing indecent material. The bible thumpers want it REMOVED AND NOT MADE AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY!
what is the problem with this. I can support who I wish as can everyone else. The last time I looked it is a free country. It wasn't a personal attack against you, so there is not a need to defend yourself against it. I too, am a free American. My goal as such is too keep the religious right OUT OF MY BUSINESS. They can do what they want, including having sex twice on Sundays in the missionary position or any other position they want. I don't want them telling me what I can or can't do.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 21, 2004 10:40:02 PM new
Here is a perfect example of how and why religion should be kept out of schools.
Take for example the city of Dearborn, Michigan. Dearborn is located just south of Detroit and it has an Middle Eastern populating of about 60 percent. Now many of these people practice Islam, and not chirstianity. What happens to the students who don't recognize Islam. What about the Jewish students who don't practice christianity. School is for learning and church is for praying. Let's not co-mingle the two.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 22, 2004 08:56:00 AM new
And yet, lets use the public schools, in teaching "diversity","pc" and "tolerance" to:
Say pre-marital sex with multiple partners is fine, as long as you wear a condom. And yet rarely/never mention that STD's and such cannot be transmitted if you abstain from sex.
That a child who cannot vote, buy cigarettes or booze can decide to have an abortion without parental consent.
To teach the re-writing of historical facts.
To say that you cannot wear a cross to school, but it is fine to wear shirts depicting "your point of view" as long as it isn't religious in nature.
To keep throwing money into the institution of education for all these years with our students falling behind the world, but not allow for charter schools.
To say that homosexuality is fine, but Christianity is not.
Or in the public square:
Where billboards depict every kind of tolerance (sex, movies, smoking, booze, homosexuality), but items that have been in this country for more years (the 10 Commandment monuments, to name one) are against the Constitution and bad for society.
On one hand, to say "we want freedom" for homosexuals, and on the other to say "we want no responsibility for our actions".
To say "we are a civil rights issue" and trying to compare it to the true Civil Rights Issues we have had in this Nation.
To state "being homosexual is in the genes" without any evidence. As a matter of fact, all science points against it.
To have a parade promoting what you want, but objecting when other groups wish to exclude your point of view when they march.
To demonize Christianity at every chance without fear of repercussion, but to call anyone who opposes your point of view a bigot, intolerant or worse.
As to KD saying "Their agenda is to keep everyone moral as per the current interpretation of the current Bible they've been taught to believe is fact." There is more evidence for the truth of the Bible, historical and otherwise, then in any other religion.
As to the "separation of church and state", this is in reference to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a Baptist pastor who was afraid that we would end up as a monarchy. Jefferson was re-assuring him that the Government would not step on his religious rights. It is amazing how for so many years this letter has been used to try to destroy Christianity in this country.
I agree with yeager (in a sense) in one point: lets not co-mingle the two. But ONLY if we stop co-mingling the political correctness that is being taught in schools today.
See, the homosexual movement doesn't want it this way. They fear what the public (not just Christians) have to say on this issue. This is why they are using the liberal court system to implement what society in general knows is detrimental to it's existence. All they care about is "ME! ME!! ME!!! WITHOUT A THOUGHT OF OTHERS. This form of selfishness, wanting for the "individual" instead of for the common good, divides us. Morality and common good doesn't matter as long as they get what pleases them in the moment. This is called sin.
In Christ,
Rick
Romans 5:8 "I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
posted on September 22, 2004 10:51:27 AM new
ChristianCoffee, schools should be benign - sex education should be taught in schools but the morality part about condoms and frequency of sex should be taught at home. If kids are getting the wrong message, it's from home not the schools.
Your God is a loving God - well not quite. Supposedly he's put limits on who you should love, such as homosexuals who commit no crime. How can anyone believe what the rest of the Bible says when Christians push this idea as word of God?
If homosexuals actually CHOSE this lifestyle, what difference would it make to you? Sounds like you'd rather judge a person based on something you know nothing about instead of loving them as you would yourself.
"to demonize Christianity...'"
Nobody demonizes Christianity. Christians do that themselves by acting like their way is the only way.
ChristianCoffee, I've often wondered what the world would be like if there were no Bible or God to follow. I mean, could it be any worse than it is now? What good does Christianity do if this is what we end up with?
posted on September 22, 2004 11:17:04 AM new
Well said, ChristianCoffee...and I agree 100% on all your points.
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But who's morality? Based on who's guide lines, Replay?
In our country based on our own individual rights...we vote our morality too.
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As far as the so called separation of church and state goes....this argument/debate will go on forever.
Some believe [imo, incorrectly] that the separation of church and state means all religious practices they want to see removed. Other, like myself, believe it was so our government wouldn't form ONE national religion that would be forced on all. We don't have that.
Under our Constitution we were given the 'right' to practice our religion....with no restrictions or limits. It's the atheists and agnostics and extreme ultra-liberals who continue to work to restrict our Constitutional rights.
posted on September 22, 2004 11:22:07 AM new
KD - I believe this is usually a big part of the communication problem that exists between the religious and those who disagree.
Mis-understandings of what is truly a part of their religion and mis-quotes about their practices.
For example you say:
Supposedly he's put limits on who you should love, such as homosexuals who commit no crime. How can anyone believe what the rest of the Bible says when Christians push this idea as word of God?
There is nothing said about limits on who you should love. PERIOD. Rather it's love the sinner, reject/hate the sin. Makes it a whole different ball game.
posted on September 22, 2004 11:26:46 AM new
Your God is a loving God - well not quite. Supposedly he's put limits on who you should love, such as homosexuals who commit no crime. How can anyone believe what the rest of the Bible says when Christians push this idea as word of God?
He has not placed any limits on whom we should love. He states that we should:
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength. And love your neighbor as yourself."
When asked who was "our neighbor", he replied with the story of the Good Samaritan. Everyone is our neighbor.
However, He tells us we are to preach the Good Word, and allow everyone to decide whom to follow. We are to hate the sin but love the sinner. For we are all sinners.
ChristianCoffee, schools should be benign - sex education should be taught in schools but the morality part about condoms and frequency of sex should be taught at home. If kids are getting the wrong message, it's from home not the schools.
Your wrong, there. It is taught in schools. Condoms and other forms of "birth control" are handed out in public schools. Kids are taught behind their parents backs about sex and sexuality. And they push their "safe sex" agenda upon our children.
If homosexuals actually CHOSE this lifestyle, what difference would it make to you? Sounds like you'd rather judge a person based on something you know nothing about instead of loving them as you would yourself.
I am not "judging" a person, I am condemning a lifestyle choice. And no matter what you say, it does/will affect us and our children. All sin affects society, whether it be passive or aggressive.
ChristianCoffee, I've often wondered what the world would be like if there were no Bible or God to follow. I mean, could it be any worse than it is now? What good does Christianity do if this is what we end up with?
Lets see, the Bible wasn't mass produced until Gutenberg's press in the 1400's. Up until that time all Bibles were hand written, carefully copied from previous copies. But the Bible as we know it (all 66 Books) were not completely gathered together until 200-300 AD. Before that, the Gospel was preached without it. Scribes were well known for memorizing the entire OT, as well as the letters from Paul, James and others. So the Bible as we know it has only been around for 2000+ years. However, the NT is a direct offshoot from what Christians call the OT, or the Jewish faith's Bible. The NT is the fulfillment of prophecy in the OT.
God has always been here: He created everything. People, however, would much rather look to themselves then the saving Grace He provided for us by dying for our sins upon the Cross.
"to demonize Christianity...'"
Nobody demonizes Christianity. Christians do that themselves by acting like their way is the only way.
While I will agree that some people who profess Christianity have done harm to the cause of Christ, it has been the sinful nature of man that tries to tear it down. However, Jesus says that sin will not prevail against His Word, and that is true. No matter how bad man may bungle up, the cause of Christ is still here. No matter how much the world may despise Christ and Christianity, it will always be here. In a thread around here I posed 5 questions to anyone who could dispute them. I guess I will have to try to find them and start a subject on them.
In Christ,
Rick
John 1:1
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
posted on September 22, 2004 11:32:09 AM new
What I know about the "christian" right????
They want everybody to be the same religion ( a communist idea if ever there was one).
They want to shove their beliefs down everyone's throat.
They think they can use MY PUBLIC venues and entities to promote their religion(keep your damn 10 rules for stupid people OFF MY publicly funded by taxpayers property).
They hate poor people and non-whites.
They think the taxpayers should pay for teaching their brats religion ...why...are they too stupid to do it in their home where it belongs?????
They think they own the country (one nation under god ??whose god, what god, why a god ? )
They think THEY determine other people's morals while ignoring their own lack thereof!
Can't think for themselves without reading some ancient old book with 50 million different translations that no one agrees on and fights bitterly about!
posted on September 22, 2004 11:59:07 AM new
Exactly Crowfarm.
Can't you see that promoting the Christian way that includes things like hate, killing and all that, doesn't jive with what most people would think a loving God would be part of? Could it be possible that what man has deemed to be sins because of what the Bible has taught them, aren't really sins at all, but just a reflection of how advanced our society is?
I'm not against people who believe in God. I believe in God, just not the judgmental, egotistical, praise-addicted, hateful (disguised as loving), controlling, angry supernatural being that lives in the sky guy you call God.
In my opinion, if you need the Bible to tell you how to behave, you're already miles apart from the real God.
posted on September 22, 2004 11:59:59 AM new
Though I wasn't going to dignify crowfarms' post with a response, I will anyhow.
Your response crowfarm shows how entirely untactful and uninformed you really are. I have read your rants and raves many times, and most often I have felt this way. However, as this is a free country, and a free message board, I see no harm in allowing you to make posts that show your varying degrees of unsubstantiated thought. I cannot help but wonder what makes you so bitter, crowfarm. Do you not realize that when you speak (or type), you cannot take back those words (though in here you can edit your posts ). It is sad that there is so much......anger in your heart that you can only post in ways that display it. However, I would much rather have you vent yourself in here then in some public place where someone may physically be injured.
May the love of Jesus Christ find a home in your hardened heart, crowfarm.
In Christ,
Rick
John 3:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
posted on September 22, 2004 12:12:59 PM new
Oh ya, I forgot ...they are also pompous, self-righteous, aspholes who think they can "see" into another person's thoughts .
But then what do expect...their president "talks" to god!
Do I get angry,cc, you bet I do when somebody tries to shove their religion in other's faces.....it's rude, disgusting, inappropriate, inconsiderate, communistic, illegal, and anti-American.
posted on September 22, 2004 12:20:11 PM new
Doesn't that scare anyone when you know that your President is taking orders from God - and look where it's gotten everyone. Do you think God is clapping at Bush's accomplishments? This is how the Christian right wants things to go...
posted on September 22, 2004 12:28:30 PM new
KD, he's a praying man, so no it does not scare me.
What scares me is the mis-representation of him, and his relationship with Jesus Christ.
In Christ,
Rick
Romans 8:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
posted on September 22, 2004 12:53:45 PM new
Oh and,cc, I see you didn't address any of my points whatsoever....does belief in your almighty powers preclude answering a post ?
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
The lower case usually is meant to show disrespect....like I do when mentioning clinton or kerry.