posted on October 18, 2004 06:12:32 PM new
Helen says, """"What kind of government would see a flu epidemic capable of killing forty thousand chronically ill, young and elderly people and say, screw it. Let the old farts, children and chronically ill people die -- after all, we are not "mandated" to provide such assistance.? What kind of government would operate like that? """
The kind of government that linda, twelve and bear want.
posted on October 18, 2004 06:39:24 PM new
There goes the liar, cf again.
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What helen wants is more socialism in our country.
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If anyone would read about h. clinton's actions with children's vaccinations, during the clinton administration, one can clearly see why all but two of the flu vaccine making companies pulled out.
So....if the dems do put more regulations on our drug industry, forcing them to produce products while at the same time limiting their profits....you're going to see much more of the samething that's happening with this flu shot issue. The companies will say 'screw it' we're not taking on the unlimited legal responsibilities and while only making pennies on this product. THEN you dems can REALLY scream.
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"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner Former Vietnam POW
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"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
posted on October 18, 2004 07:08:34 PM new
I can't agree with you Linda. Since I've been here I've always known Helen to stand up for the little guy, the poor, the underpriveledged, the sick, the aged, the druggies, the soldiers... the list is endless. If you call that socialism then so be it. I call it compassion.
posted on October 18, 2004 08:02:17 PM new
KD - Socialism is wanting the government to take care of all your needs....be your nanny, rather than an open market situation that lets demand for products decide if they will be made or not.
It has nothing to do with being compassionate or not.
The moderate democrats remember the wise words of John F. Kennedy "My Fellow American's ...ask NOT what your country can do for you....ask what YOU can do for your country." Liberals don't like that...they want it reversed....our government to do everything for all. Just like helen. The more decisions our government makes for us....controls our lives...the less freedom we have....the less freedom our capitalist market has. We don't need more government intrusion into our lives.
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"And they, the interrogator went through all of these statements from John Kerry. He starts pounding on the table. 'See here, this naval officer, he admits that you are a criminal.'" Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
- James H. Warner Former Vietnam POW
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I will never submit America's national security to an international test. The use of troops to defend America must never be subject to a veto by countries like France. The President's job is not to take an international poll -- the President's job is to defend America." --President George W. Bush
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Re-elect President Bush
John F. Kennedy also said, "if by a 'liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties someone who believes that we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a 'liberal,' then I'm proud to say that I'm a 'liberal."'
posted on October 19, 2004 02:40:39 AM new
septembermom- I agree with you. You are level-headed and touch an issue without all the "hoopla".
If the Canadians cut back on exports to take care of their own- "Good for them". They should. If it's polically motivated, shame on them.
Somewhere, I read that pharmacies make the most money from prescriptions. I never could find anymore on it though, at the time.
As of yesterday, we will not get our annual flu shots at work this year. I'm a big girl, I'm pretty sure I can handle it. There are a few with compromises, hopefully they'll get theirs elsewhere.
posted on October 19, 2004 05:36:02 AM new
helen - You're much further left than liberals are....and you're forgetting the first part of JFK's quote..."ask NOT what your country can do for you..".
You not only constantly complain about all our government's NOT DOING....you demand time and time again it DO MORE.
posted on October 19, 2004 06:04:30 AM new
Oh paashaw.... just heard on the news that those living close to Canada can go over and get a flu shot... not free but is available...
posted on October 19, 2004 12:15:58 PM new"KD - Socialism is wanting the government to take care of all your needs....be your nanny, rather than an open market situation that lets demand for products decide if they will be made or not."
Linda, what you describe is called governing. Your use of the word socialism isn't always correct. A social system is one where everyone gets the same treatment - the same pay, same taxes, same everything. In a country such as the U.S. where there are rich and poor, the rich provide for the poor because they can afford to. This isn't socialism. It's called making your government dole out your money to where it's needed most. The health of a nation is top priority and a the responsiblity of the government to make sure that happens.
posted on October 19, 2004 01:03:26 PM new
Twinkletoes, People need to provide for themselves... that is the true American way...
Then I guess you should be responsible for your own health care or are you dependent on the government taking care of your medical needs because you supposedly are a veteran.
If you believe what you said, then the government should not have to provide any veteran with medical care. Each veteran should be responsible for their own medical needs.
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on October 19, 2004 01:10:12 PM new
Linda: The more decisions our government makes for us....controls our lives...the less freedom we have....the less freedom our capitalist market has. We don't need more government intrusion into our lives.
Based on what you said above you must be against the Patriot Act. How many freedoms have we given up because of this law?
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on October 19, 2004 02:47:15 PM new
KD - I'm sure you're aware of the socialistic programs you have in Canada, just like I am aware of the one's we have here.
I DO understand the meaning of socialism....and we are headed there just as your country is. kerry's election will only hasten that ride into much MORE socialistic programs.
Taking the rich to redistribute our income to the poor is NOT what this Nation was founded on. Our first taxes were to support a war....and they've grown from there. But another health care program like kerry's proposed one...is heading the US in the direction of having an END RESULT of socialist government provided/funded/operated nation health care system....where all have the same...even if that means it's a poor system to all.
posted on October 19, 2004 02:49:40 PM new
No, logansdad - I don't consider that the same at all. That's totally a National Security issue...not a social/cultural issue.
And besides NO ONE here has had any problems with the Patriot Act....you know the one KERRY VOTED FOR. Neither has 99.9999% of any other Americans.
posted on October 19, 2004 02:55:22 PM new
Another lie from the Bush/Cheney lie machine. Part of the Bush/Cheney Gang Tommy Thompson was on TV not long ago bragging how this Government has arranged to receive 2.6 million more FLU SHOTS a little at a time by JANUARY!!!
What the truth is we lost 48 million flu shots from England so his bragging about 2.6 million SHOTS BY JANUARY is just a ANOTHER COVER UP LIE. ALL THE BUSH/CHENEY GANG DOES IS SPREAD LIES in an effort to cover up for their failed leadership and poor planing.
posted on October 19, 2004 03:22:05 PM new
For those who aren't aware, Canada is a "confederation with parliamentary democracy" and is not a socialist country.
Citizens pay for their health insurance. They also buy their own prescriptions. I don't think some are aware of the health system in Canada or what type of government it really is but it's easy to find if you look to legitimate sources.
posted on October 19, 2004 03:31:21 PM new
Linda, every country has socialist style policies. It's not a bad word, you know. And making sure your less fortunate get adequate care isn't a bad thing either, unless money means more than human beings.
posted on October 19, 2004 03:57:32 PM new
KD - It's a bad word to me - leaves a terrible 'taste' in my mouth. And I hope it will to most Americans for a VERY long time. It has failed for many reasons.
It takes away peoples incentives...it makes them totally dependent on their government....rather than on themselves.
And the more kerry and his ilk make people dependent by the promises of all these programs...while he does it for votes...people become more and more dependent.
What we are promised is NOT an easy life, not a life filled with a house, three bedrooms, two baths, but rather the opportunity to earn it ourselves.
Just like here...some of you mention people that don't have this or that. It's usually because of the choices they've made in their lives. Others who made better choices don't OWE anybody anything.
There are many generous people who give a lot to the needy, but who also don't believe the government needs to decide for them where the money they earn is spent. They'd rather make those choices theirselves. That's being free....not having the government make every decision for you.
But kerry does promote it...and that's a part of what scares me about him. Mostly his war positions though.
posted on October 19, 2004 04:07:02 PM new
And the OTHER side of the Canadian health care crisis....which kerry would just love to copy...is:
All the major candidates in Canada's recent national election acknowledged that the country's health-care system is failing Canadians. this was in July of this year
The common prescription, however, was just to spread more taxpayer money on it the usual nostrum of socialism. In the end, [no major candidate had the political courage to tell the truth about the ailing Canadian system.
Indeed, on the other side of the border, Americans such as Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Seattle, fantasize about importing the Canadian health-care dream to the U.S. so that every citizen has comparable "equal access" to medical care.
But more and more Canadians are awakening not from a dream, but from a nightmare.
The results are coming in. After years of government control, the medical system is badly injured and bleeding citizens' hard-earned tax dollars.
A study recently released by the Fraser Institute in Vancouver, B.C., compared industrialized countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) that strive to provide universal health-care access. Among those countries, Canada spends most on its system while ranking among the lowest in such indicators as access to physicians, quality of medical equipment and key health outcomes.
One of the major reasons for this discrepancy is that, unlike other countries in the study that outperformed Canada such as Sweden, Japan, Australia and France Canada outlaws most private health care. If the government says it provides a medical service, it's illegal for a Canadian citizen to pay for and get the service privately.
At the same time, to try to keep spending down, the government chips away at the number and variety of covered services. According to another Fraser Institute survey, this means that on average a patient must wait in line 17.7 weeks for hospital treatment.
The article I posted can be found by clicking on the first link in the thousands of sites that speak about Canadian health care system and it's failings.
I SURE hope the US can learn from watching what hasn't worked before we decide to head down that same path.
posted on October 19, 2004 04:14:15 PM newLinda, every country has socialist style policies. It's not a bad word, you know. And making sure your less fortunate get adequate care isn't a bad thing either, unless money means more than human beings.
Excellent observation, KD. As the gap between the rich and the poor in the United States becomes wider some people no matter how hard they try will need help. I mentioned yesterday the tree people and their little girl who has leukemia. They work seven days a week and still need some help. No country as rich as ours should deny the poor help and try to call it socialism. How callous. No country such as ours should deny it's citizens affordable health care, medicine and housing. That kind of assistance is not socialism...It's good government.
posted on October 19, 2004 04:24:42 PM new
Linda, it's not a case of owing anyone anything. It's a case of a large, heavily populated country - the U.S., making sure that it's tax dollars are spent to HELP people that aren't rich. Not everyone has money. Not everyone could afford a higher education to get the high paying jobs to afford health care, houses, cars, etc. What skin is it off your butt to have a portion of your income go to the less fortunate, which any one of us could end up being? What part of this scares you?
And as far as Canada's health care system, it's probably just as good as yours with it's ups and downs.
posted on October 19, 2004 05:32:50 PM new
kraftdinner, You are a very smart person. You succeeded in baiting a couple very ill,compulsive,money counting,greedy bush supporters to admit that they are in fact not worried about anyone but themselves. Way to go.
Excerpt from "Stolen Honor"
