posted on October 19, 2004 06:40:13 PM newThe health care is very good in Canada
When the citizens of Canada wait weeks for the needed tests. Put on lists for surgery? That's good health care?
I bet bigpeepa can hardly wait for the rich to dole out their money. He will be the first in line because with the tone of his postings someone owes him a living.
We are not a Robin Hood country. Do you think the UNWORKING poor (now remember I said unworking)deserve to have the same benefits of someone who put their life into work so they can have a better life? There are families after families that have been on the welfare system because they think someone owes them a living. Generations of welfare recipents that have laid around expecting that they are owed a living. Why should they expect that? I don't begruge the people that try and find work and can't, to be helped.
posted on October 19, 2004 06:47:01 PM newWhen the citizens of Canada wait weeks for the needed tests. Put on lists for surgery? That's good health care?
Not ALL citizens. Reform needs to be done in the system as it should be modeled more like some in Europe for it to work more efficiently. They are trying to improve some aspects of it as it's certainly not perfect and no one has said it is. It's not like people are all suffering or dropping like flies.
posted on October 20, 2004 08:15:04 AM new
I asked Septembermom if she has ever lived in Canada to find out if she's speaking from experience about their health care system.
Or is she just parroting the googler who has never lived in Canada either but who has suddenly become an expert on that country's entire health care system.
posted on October 20, 2004 10:57:07 AM new
Yes, Septembermom - be sure to understand that the Canadian above believes you can't have an opinion that disagrees with her UNLESS you have personally lived in that country.
You are to totally ignore what OTHER Canadians are complaining about with their poor health system.
You are to ignore ANY and ALL news reports about how their leaders think or what they are proposing to change and why.
You are to ignore what their doctors are saying about why they're leaving their practices in Canada to come to the US.
Just ignore everybody who thinks differently than kiara does.
And going along this same 'mind think' please don't EVER post anything about ANY country you haven't lived in, no matter what the rest of the world is doing.
posted on October 20, 2004 11:12:04 AM new
Linda_k, it's as simple as this. Some problems are brought to light and solved by media attention and sometimes that seems to be one of the best ways to get things done. It's like finally getting a traffic light at a crosswalk but it sometimes takes the accidental death of a person to do it. Americans are also complaining about their health care and it's had media attention too so what does that say?
I speak from experience about the health care system in Canada and I am first to admit that there are problems with the system and no overnight fixes but they are trying to find solutions. What part of that don't you seem to understand? You speak only as an uninformed googler who uses any opportunity to bash Canada because of your personal dislike for me. You have never experienced health care in Canada.
Please show me where it is stated that Kerry plans to model the entire US health care system on Canada's. Or will you take off like you did the other day when someone else asked you for facts and then wimp out when you return?
posted on October 20, 2004 08:29:21 PM new
kiara - You just can't stop yourself I guess.
In YOUR mind it's always only about YOU, isn't it kiara. You appear to me to be VERY narcisistic.
NEWS FLASH!!! You are NOT the center of the world....not even the center of Canada...you're ONE person...and it's NOT about YOU.
You say: You speak only as an uninformed googler who uses any opportunity to bash Canada because of your personal dislike for me. You have never experienced health care in Canada.
Again your broken crystal ball is malfunctioning. My personal dislike of you has absolutely NOTHING to do with my opinions of the socialized National Health Care system in Canada. WHY? Because again, IT'S NOT at all ABOUT YOU KIARA. Please try to get that through you VERY thick head.
My experience with their system does not ONLY come from what news reports say, what your own government admits is a growing crisis, nor studies of that same system that speak to how expensive and poor it is, etc. but is also from what I have shared before. My husband worked for a Canadian owned, US based company, for close to 22 years. There we met lots of Canadians, some who became our friends, and GUESS WHAT??? SURPRISE OF ALL SURPISES....THEY shared with us how THEY saw THEIR system vs. how easy it was to get into see doctors here. Many differences they loved about our system compared to theirs - especially when surgery was needed asap. AGAIN, kiara, NOT YOUR system... ....but the one that serves all Canadians.
So please don't continue to assume things...you'll only continue to embarass yourself at your lack of knowledge about MY life, MY experiences, MY opinions.....and you're still batting zero when you continue to make assumptions about me.
posted on October 20, 2004 09:08:26 PM new
Linda_k, once again...... why is it you always turn the conversation to all about you and how much you don't know? Third hand stories and google info is not all there is to know. I speak from experience, you don't.
Read my last post. How is that about me?? I was discussing Canada and not myself but I realize you obviously have a severe problem separating the two.
Besides, WHAT does waiting in line for surgery by some people in Canada have to do with the US health care problem about flu vaccine or getting prescription drugs from Canada? It's not the least bit relevant but is a continuing topic by you so you can bash Canada. Get over it, your jealousy and bitterness show all too clearly.
Please show me where it is stated that Kerry plans to model the entire US health care system on Canada's.
posted on October 20, 2004 09:32:03 PM newI'm sure she meant Canada when she said her system.
Kraft, nowhere did I say it was "MY" system. I referred to it as Canada's system. I never used the word "MY"........ Linda_k said that. I wasn't talking about myself.
But I noticed Linda_K used "MY" seven times in her post when all she did was talk about HERSELF and it was all about her.
posted on October 20, 2004 09:47:06 PM new
It doesn't matter where I live maybe Canada maybe not, as it is no one's business but mine, but I can have an opinion.
The US has No national health care system. I personally wouldn't want the government telling me where to go and what doctor I am going to see. Following is an article about Kerry-Edwards Healthcare system. Does part of it sound familiar. But first I want to say John Kerry wants to make it legal to get drugs from Canada. Before he can say that will Canada still give the US drugs or will the drug companies ration the drugs sent to Canada and then Canada refuse the US because they will not have enough for their citizens. Can John Kerry promise the American people cheaper drugs from Canada? and will he deliver?
Here is the Article.
The Kerry/Edwards healthcare solution
Edward Daley
July 20, 2004
John F. Kerry is a lawyer who complains that the healthcare system is too expensive, yet his running mate, another lawyer, has made his fortune suing doctors. Malpractice lawsuits, as most people know, are one of the primary causes of increased medical costs in the U.S., yet the Kerry/Edwards solution to the problem is NOT to try and prevent lawyers from bringing frivolous lawsuits against physicians who've done nothing wrong. Surprise — surprise! Nor is their plan to limit the amount of damages that plaintiffs with legitimate cases can get... like say... something approaching a reasonable amount of money.
No, their idea for fixing the problem is to give the federal government more control over the entire healthcare system. At this point I should probably explain that roughly 35% of the U.S. Congress is made up of lawyers and, at least on the left hand side of the aisle, it is heavily funded by them. Half of the members of the Bush cabinet are lawyers too, and I suspect that in years past that percentage has been even higher. The judiciary, of course, is nothing BUT lawyers who've become judges, so when you think about it, lawyers make up a big part of the government.
When Bill Clinton was in office one could have argued, since he was a lawyer as well, that the majority of policies created by our government were devised by lawyers. For all anyone knows, that may still be the case. After all, even though Bush is not a lawyer himself, there is no doubt that he depends on the opinions of lawyers whenever he attempts to present a bill to Congress or formulate a new administrative policy. And even if that were not true, lawyers would still be an incredibly powerful force in our government as a whole. If Senator Kerry is elected president this November, lawyers will exert even more influence over our everyday lives, and that is something I find to be more than a little troubling.
Why? Well, look at it this way: in the world outside of politics, lawyers make up about one third of one percent of America's population. This is a tiny percentage, especially when compared to the number of lawyers who are currently holding elective offices in our government, per capita. Yet, in spite of that fact, the direct costs of civil litigation in this country run to the tens of billions of dollars every year. That doesn't even include the indirect costs, which are ten times higher than that. That's a tremendous amount of green-backs, and who gets as much as forty percent (and sometimes even more) of all the money awarded by courts in the U.S., as well as the cash that changes hands due to out-of-court settlements? Take a wild guess.
Now don't go jumping to any conclusions here. It's not like I'm against people earning a good living, or even becoming rich. If you're capable of doing so, more power to you. I'm also not complaining about people who sue because they've been wronged in some way. If you have been wronged by someone, you should sue them for just compensation. That's the American way. I'm simply pointing out that when a group composed of less than a million people shares a monetary pie worth hundreds of billions of dollars (that averages out to hundreds of thousands of dollars per lawyer annually) the odds that a majority of them, or even a sizable minority, will ever decide to reduce the size of that pie are negligible.
Which brings me back to the main point of this article. People like the two Johns, currently running for the highest offices in the land, have no intention of ever producing policies which might cut into the cash-flow of their fellow lawyers, or upset all the other politicos who owe their positions to lawyers. In fact, they want to take control of the medical profession, because they know that if the government runs it, lawyers will inevitably decide who gets most of the money produced by that industry. And no, it won't be the doctors who actually earned the money.
No lawyer, and indeed, no politician who is backed by lawyers has anything to gain by allowing the CASH COW that is the medical profession to remain subject to the normal market forces that rule most other aspects of the business world, not when they can take control of it. Furthermore, people like John Edwards will never support any sort of reforms which might make it more difficult for people to file frivolous malpractice lawsuits against physicians. Now that lawyers can manipulate the system to the point at which they are able to detrimentally effect the costs of patients' medical treatment, they'll keep hammering away until they convince the majority of people that politicians are the solution to the problem of skyrocketing medical costs.
They create the problem, and then they waltz in and wave the magic wand of governmental intervention in our hapless faces, because they understand that we just want the cost of our healthcare to go down. They also know that, after a while, we'll fall for even the most amateurish sleight of hand deception, if it means we get to pay less at the doctor's office. People will, over time, allow themselves to be manipulated into accepting just about anything if it means they get to have what they think they want... you can count on it.
You can also count on a general degradation in quality within the medical profession if the government takes complete control of it. It's easy enough to understand why that would be the case if you consider that competition will no longer be a part of the equation, because lawyers and politicians will decide which doctor you get to see and what those doctors will be allowed to do for you. Competition is what makes people strive to be the best. The best doctors, like the best football players and the best musicians, are rewarded with more money and prestige for their exceptional efforts. Take away competition and even good physicians will work less hard to help you with whatever your problem is, because their incentive for being the best at what they do will be gone.
Think about it, would you work any harder than you had to if you knew you wouldn't be treated any better than the biggest slacker in the place regardless of what you did? Of course not, and neither will your doctor if people like John Kerry and John Edwards get their way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Daley was born to American parents on a U.S. military base in Stephenville, Newfoundland, Canada, and moved to the United States as an infant. He became active in politics in 1984--the first year he was old enough to vote for the President of the United States. Currently he is the full-time caregiver to his elderly father and a landlord of rental property. Edward has been a salesman, bar doorman, typesetter, and security guard. He is a college graduate with a number of hobbies and interests, including reading, writing poetry and short stories, web designing, watching professional football, and drinking 12-year-old single malt scotch. He currently lives in Thomaston, Maine.
[ edited by Septembermom on Oct 20, 2004 11:49 PM ]
posted on October 20, 2004 10:09:13 PM newIt doesn't matter where I live maybe Canada maybe not
Obviously you do not live in Canada because I can tell by your numerous uninformed posts that you have recently made. You made a truly laughable one about where Canada got its flu vaccine. And your story about the drugs from the Bahamas....... check the website....... check the disclaimer........ check the domain. NONE of this is about drugs confiscated "from Canada" like you said.
Here is another one of them:
I personally wouldn't want the government telling me where to go and what doctor I am going to see.
posted on October 20, 2004 10:31:32 PM new
Well Kiara you can assume all you want as you will never know where I live. I could be your neighbor, heaven forbid.
posted on October 20, 2004 10:50:37 PM new
State questions FDA drug seizures
Agency intercepted prescription drugs ordered from Canada
By JOE MANNING
Posted: Sept. 13, 2004
Why the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has been intercepting prescription medications ordered from Canadian mail order pharmacies.
The FDA "is not taking bold new steps" to prevent Americans from getting drugs from Canada, Hubbard said.
He acknowledged that many Americans order drugs from Canada - about four to five million prescriptions a year - because they believe it is a less expensive way to get medications.
The brouhaha involves a single shipment of drugs from the Bahamas that was intercepted last month in Miami by U.S. Customs and the FDA, Hubbard said.
The shipment of about 450 individual prescriptions was unusual because the return address was CanadaRX, a mail-order pharmacy in Hamilton, Ontario.
Hubbard said the pallet was opened and the drugs examined to determine what they were. The prescriptions were for typical health problems such as high blood pressure and cholesterol as well as blood thinners and arthritis pain medication. For the most part, the drugs were manufactured in Canada, the United States, England and Australia, he said.
The recipients of the medications were in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Vermont.
"We didn't seize these drugs. Each patient will get a letter asking them to explain why these drugs should be allowed in," he said. The patients will have 15 days to respond.
CanadaRX owner Harvey Organ said most of the customers whose drugs were intercepted have already received their orders by now or within the next few days.
"They have all been reshipped" from Canada, he said. The intercepted drugs were sent from CanadaRX's "international pharmacy" in the Bahamas. The international pharmacy was set up, Organ said, to purchase drugs manufactured in countries such as New Zealand, Australia and England, because American drug manufacturers had stopped supplying medications to most Canadian pharmacies that sell into the U.S.
posted on October 20, 2004 10:56:37 PM new
Excellent article, September mom.
------
Just like all our government bureaucracies....what we don't need is to put our health care system and decision making choices about our health care into the hands of government. It will not only grow government but down the road they'll have control over our own medical health decision making process.
Even the lefties who scream the decision making process on abortions should be ONLY between the woman and her doctor, no one else, especially the government should be involved in THAT process....now appear to be more than willing to have the government involved in our health care decision process.
-----------------
KD - I'm not going to argue about how I see Kiara's statements. She always chooses to take any comment I make about Canada personally. Anybody who shares an opinion that differs from hers...not only me...gets asked the totally irrelevant question of 'have you ever lived in Canada?'. It's completely nuts to think no one can post their own opinions about the system unless they've lived there. If that were the case no one could post anything about any country unless they've lived there too. And that's just utter nonsense.
Kiara says I bring up the issue because I dislike her. She personalizes WHY I talk and post about it. But it has NOTHING to do with her. It is an issue in American today for those that think copying the Canadian system would be great. I post on why I don't think it would be so great, and use studies and statements from your own doctors, citizen groups, government leaders, etc.
posted on October 20, 2004 11:26:12 PM new
septembermom, you have already disclosed that you live in the US.
The drugs were shipped from the Bahamas to Miami. This is an internet scam. Go to Canadarx.net and check the disclaimer page. It says that it is not an accredited pharmacy in Canada. It does not show the accredited pharmacy seal. It is a scam.
Check the registrant of the domain. It is someone in the Bahamas. Many of these companies are set up by people in the US and overseas and made to look like they are operating out of Canada. There are warnings daily about how to buy drugs safely online.
Domain Name: canadarx.net
Registrant Info:
Hamilton Pharmaceutical Inc
Harvey B. Organ
#4 George St.
Nassau,
BS
Phone: +1.9055271716
Fax..:
Email: [email protected]
posted on October 20, 2004 11:47:21 PM new
So I guess we can't trust the Canadians, or who ever they are.
Why can't they be shut down if it is illegal?
Does the government have any control over this? Maybe this is one reason the US government doesn't want US citizens to buy from Canada because they really don't know if their canadian or not. Seems to be a problem and a serious one.
posted on October 21, 2004 12:31:32 AM new
September says,
"""We are not a Robin Hood country. Do you think the UNWORKING poor (now remember I said unworking)deserve to have the same benefits of someone who put their life into work so they can have a better life? There are families after families that have been on the welfare system because they think someone owes them a living. Generations of welfare recipents that have laid around expecting that they are owed a living. Why should they expect that? I don't begruge the people that try and find work and can't, to be helped.
"""
Again, please pick on the poor and please completely ignore the corporate welfare that runs rampant in this country....No, we're not a Robin Hood country, Robin stole from the rich and gave to the poor.
In America the only game in town is to steal from the poor and middle class and give to the rich.
How about those federal(we pay for) contracts bush gave to off-shore companies who have all the benefits of living in the US but pay NO income tax. Did they EARN THAT THROUGH HARD WORK? NO!
How about the huge tax break bush gave to the wealthiest 2% of Americans...DID THEY EARN THAT THROUGH HARD WORK>>>NO!
posted on October 21, 2004 12:47:06 AM new
Parklane, I work out of the US and Canada and I'm seriously considering relocating back to the US. Many of my relatives and friends live in the US.
I do not agree with the war in Iraq and I do not approve of President Bush but other than that I seldom criticize the US as I love the country. I have made very few comments on the American health system. Whatever happens politically in the US affects me, okay?
I don't understand why you choose to attack me as I've never attacked you. But now I will say that you contribute very little to the forums as you mostly are here with a negative attitude and only insult others. You are also a troll who lately seems overly concerned about a certain body oriface.... could be a constipation problem so you may want to take care of it with some more prune juice.
BTW, Septembermom......... I do know what your other ID is here. You can only hide so long.
posted on October 21, 2004 06:21:35 AM new "I think she likes me because she always makes it all about me."
Kiara, Maybe it's those "voices" again. I think linda *likes* me too. Hahaha!
Linda, while the U.S. has a health care system that over 45 million people can't afford, how do you have the audacity to criticize Canada's system? You should take a look at your hysterical rants in the clear light of day and recognize the fact that your obvious discomposure is affecting your ability to communicate reasonably.
Instead of being so critical you should be thankful that Canada and France are helping us out with our health care problems right now by providing some additional flu vaccine.
Now, in Montgomery County Maryland the flu shots are being distributed among high risk people with chronic illness by using a lottery. Those people who win the lottery get health care. I'll bet if that embarrassing situation was happening in Canada that you would be typing with your fingers and your toes, while copy pasting with your nose.
posted on October 21, 2004 07:47:11 AM newAnd yet you have the gall to talk about the US military kiara....
Twelvepole, there you go......... ASSuming again, you twit. I don't have to google all of my info like some others here because they have no life experience or knowledge. One doesn't have to be in the military to know anything. You are a fine example of that.
One of my favorite quotes here was once when logansdad asked about someone's military experience because they were the board "expert" and were clueless (hint...... it was someone who didn't realize that women served in Iraq) lol
He said:
What branch did you serve in since you are up to date on all the military regulations? Ah yes it was the Internet branch, the Google division, your rank and serial number were copy and paste. Lights out, revelry is at 0400
Check some facts on health care funding per capita..... you may be surprised how much Canadians and Americans pay.
Helen, was it you that once said it would be a fulltime job to keep up with the misinformation spouted in this forum?
posted on October 21, 2004 08:03:05 AM new
LOL twelve....gotta love THAT rant. She can talk about OUR military....but we can't speak about the failing health care system in Canada. It's that ol' double standard popping up again.
--------
helen - The 45 million you speak of have many just like you who COULD afford to insure themselves...but CHOOSE not to. I don't want to pay more taxes so people like you can get a free ride off the taxpayers backs. Pay your own way.
posted on October 21, 2004 08:21:14 AM new
Please remember, I always talk in a quiet calm voice so it wasn't a "rant".
She can talk about OUR military
Suddenly the military belongs to YOU and Twelvepole? Duh.......... Linda_k, I have never criticized the US military. You have constantly criticized Canada's health care system.......... BIG difference as you don't have any experience with it at all and only google any crap you can find.
BTW, I can talk about anything I choose to but when I do, I prefer to talk from life experience or knowledge and I'm not afraid to learn or ask questions. BTW, I noticed this in the other thread:
Tha-RAY-sa ?
A speech impediment this morning? Could be the extra dose of morning vitriol still stuck on your tongue. Wash it down when you gulp your next bitter pill.
I am speaking of the unemployed and the working poor who can't afford health care in our great country....linda. If you deny their existence you are more ignorant that I previously believed.
posted on October 21, 2004 09:01:57 AM new
'Spirit, are they yours?' Scrooge could say no more.
'They are Man's,' said the Spirit, looking down upon them. 'And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers. This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!' cried the Spirit, stretching out its hand towards the city. 'Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse! And abide the end!'
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
