trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 11:29:09 AM new
Warning... These are very extreme pictures of Fallujah. Not for the faint of heart!
When they say war is hell they are not kidding.One can only imagine what this does to a soldiers mental state.
http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com
[ edited by trai on Nov 20, 2004 11:33 AM ]
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Twelvepole
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posted on November 20, 2004 11:47:23 AM new
yes very nasty and as soon as we can get ALL of the people of the US behind them, we can hopefully end this thing quickly... as long as the anti-war protestors keep giving aid and comfort to the insurgents they believe the actually have a chance...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
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Libra63
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posted on November 20, 2004 01:56:46 PM new
I have lived through 2 wars and a conflict and now this one. If it is going to make the world safer for generations then I am in favor of it. Were we supposed to sit back and let these terriorists invade our country? What should we have done? This is for all who don't approve of this war. I lived through a war where we had black outs, air raids and wore dog tags to school and that was in the US. I would hate to see this again. This war is not just about us but about generations to come.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
[ edited by Libra63 on Nov 20, 2004 01:58 PM ]
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 02:32:17 PM new
Were we supposed to sit back and let these terriorists invade our country?
Irag was ready to invade the U.S.?? Iran would have been a better target to start with.
What should we have done?
Go after the people who where behind 911.No one can blame the country for that.
This is for all who don't approve of this war.
No, it is not. This is what war is...ugly. If one wages war then one should be able to look it in the face head on. This is not a video game, it is for real.
This war is not just about us but about generations to come.
You are right about that. It will be a fight for generations to come.
I found this site to be a point of interest because it is real life. As I have stated before there is no choice but to see this out to the bitter end.
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on November 20, 2004 02:54:22 PM new
In case you haven't noticed, we are at war with suicidal radical Islamists. They're not going to go away. You can't negotiate with them. They cannot be deterred. This is a fight to the death. Chemical/biological weapons and nukes are speading fast and we need to take action NOW. I believe the only way we will defeat radical Islam is by democratizing the Middle East. Iraq is a good start. After Iraq, then Iran. Then Syria and the rest of the Middle East.
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 02:59:50 PM new
Not sure what your smoking but pass some of it over.
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Helenjw
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:00:20 PM new
"I lived through a war where we had black outs, air raids and wore dog tags to school and that was in the US. I would hate to see this again."
Compare that to what the Iraqi people have to live through...The death of their mothers, fathers, grandparents, children and the total destruction of their homes and cities.
These photos tell a horrible story. I am so ashamed that our country is responsible for such carnage.
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replaymedia
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:02:43 PM new
"...that our country is responsible for such carnage."
And that explains your entire veiwpoint. You feel that OUR country is to blame. Do the Iraqis have NO RESPONSIBILITY for their actions in your eyes?
No of course not. You are one of those "blame America first" people.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
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Libra63
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:04:22 PM new
How do you know Iran would have been a better target? Because of their new weapons? Nt published until a year and a half we invaded Iraq. Was Hussen in command there?
He was the driving force to get rid of first, but no matter what country was invaded it would be the same. I can see it now if we invaded Iran why didn't we do Iraq first. It is easy for us to say that but we didn't kow the circumstances. Now with the evidence they have found in Iraq with the area they showed where hostages were held, the mask, the writing on the wall and Al Qaeda, don't you think they had a hold their also.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
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Libra63
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:18:51 PM new
. "I am so ashamed that our country is responsible for such carnage"
If your ashamed then why don't you move, but it is not just us there, there are allies fighting over there also. Were you ashamed of the US when 9/11 happened?
The problem is we are a country divided and somehow we have to come together. Of course that will never happen when many think that Bush doesn't have the knowledge to do it. The other more than half thought John Kerry was a traitor.
I am ashamed of a lot of things but not the United States. No matter who is president I would not feel ashamed of living here.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:26:18 PM new
Compare that to what the Iraqi people have to live through...The death of their mothers, fathers, grandparents, children and the total destruction of their homes and cities. These photos tell a horrible story. I am so ashamed that our country is responsible for such carnage.
It figures helen would blame us even though the insurgents are the ones hiding behind women and children. I believe that we are paying dearly trying to avoid "innocent" Iraqi civilian deaths. We lost 51 US marines and soldiers when we could've instead bombed Falluja to the ground with 0 casualties.
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kraftdinner
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:30:13 PM new
"The best support of our troops is to make an effort to end this war. This is NOT a war on terrorism. It's goddam crazy to believe that you can draw a circle in the mideast, kill everybody in that circle and think that you have won a war on terrorism. In addition to the 100,000 innocent Iraqis already killed, thousands more will be killed. thousands more Americans will be killed and the end result will be MORE highly motivated terrorists throughout the world and a less safe America."
Helen wrote this in another thread. I think it says everything.
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maggiemuggins
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:44:47 PM new
Twelve.. this "thing" as you put it, can't be ended quickly..you know that..this "thing" isn't a board game...
I don't know how many of you here on the RT have family or a dear friend fighting in Iraq right now..but I do.. Chet is a member of the USMC, stationed somewhere near Falluja. I heard last from him 3 weeks ago..with all the horrors that he must experience daily.... his thoughts and prayers are for us back here at home..imagine..
Please don't assume that because some of us are Democrats.. and some of us are against this war.. that we are somehow detached from this "thing".. we too have loved ones who are fighting and who's lives are on the line.. it is not just a Republican thing....
But..unlike a chess game.. for those of us who have loved ones over in Iraq..it is all to real.. Maggie
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 03:55:05 PM new
How do you know Iran would have been a better target? Because of their new weapons?
Because they where well known to train and supply terrorists for years. Once again..Iraq had nothing to do with 911!
Now with the evidence they have found in Iraq with the area they showed where hostages were held, the mask, the writing on the wall and Al Qaeda, don't you think they had a hold their also.
It was only after Saddam was gone did Al Qaeda move in. People like Saddam do not brook underground movements in their sandbox at any cost.
why didn't we do Iraq first.
Because he was no threat to us at all. He could of been dealt with at any time after the true threat was removed. [Iran]
One would think that the rest of the middle east should be able to deal with scumbags like Saddam but they have never been able to unite in a common cause .
This thread was simply to show the mess war truly is, not to assign blame if it was right or wrong. Way too late for that.
edited for typo
[ edited by trai on Nov 20, 2004 03:58 PM ]
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kiara
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posted on November 20, 2004 04:06:19 PM new
The war in Iraq has nothing to do with anyone’s freedom or safety on American soil and terrorism is worse now than before the war there started.
Doctors Without Borders have pulled out of Iraq and more and more aid workers are leaving including World Vision. They aren't leaving because there work is finished there either, they’re leaving because it’s impossible to help anyone.
America cannot keep senselessly invading countries with no plans after they storm the borders.
The pictures are over-powering, Trai. And for anyone who thinks that if some of us change our mind about this war and agree with them that it is the right thing to do, that it will help the troops or make things better, they are wrong. At this point the damage has been done and nothing will undo it.
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Libra63
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posted on November 20, 2004 04:17:14 PM new
"It was only after Saddam was gone did Al Qaeda move in"
How do you know this, because the bias newspapers say so. You don't know this for sure. You just said Al Qaeda was everywhere. Yes I believe they are everywhere because they want to see freedom destroyed. Have you looked at your neighbors lately. What about the people that own the 7/11 and many of the gas stations. We are losing our country and the reason is because we haven't shown our power. We laid in the weeds for the last 10 years and now we are paying the price. We are much to interested in whether gays can get married to worry about our country.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 04:27:02 PM new
How do you know this, because the bias newspapers say so. You don't know this for sure.
Bias newspapers?? Understand history. No dictator will tolerate any insurgency movements of any kind in his back yard as they all have extremely heavy police and security forces and massive spy networks and they would know about it.
Have you looked at your neighbors lately.
What has that got to do with the price of tea in china?
What about the people that own the 7/11 and many of the gas stations. We are losing our country and the reason is because we haven't shown our power.
For that you will have to ask the government about their immigration policy. You should be more concerned about the thousands of illegals streaming across the southern border. As far as losing the country don't worry about it, its already gone.
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Linda_K
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posted on November 20, 2004 04:32:07 PM new
I can't view the pics as I'm not on my PC.
However I do want to caution people to know who took the pictures and where they came from
Reason being...we previously were shown pics of dead and injured children....and months later it was discovered that the pictures WEREN'T taken during our war with Iraq...but rather a different war. Meaning they WEREN'T people Americans had injured.
So....buyer beware as they say.
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Yes, war is hell. And our last THREE administrations felt saddam presented a threat to the world and to our country. No denying that. So continue to say Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terrorism is a complete falicsy,imo. saddam himself supported the hamas terrorist financially. saddam himself hated American...with a vengence. He was a threat and it doesn't make one bit of difference if you believe he had nothing to do with 9-11.....he was a seperate thread all unto himself.
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And yes, helen has always been one to 'blame America first'. She has done it here, in her posts, since 9-11....everything is our fault...and she constantly points out everything she believes WE'RE doing wrong....but never blames the terroists. If I remember correctly, and it may have been another anti-war groupie posting here that she just agreed with- so I can't swear to this, but they were blaming US for what BinLaden did on 9-11. It was our fault and basically we got what we deserved because of our previous actions in the ME. And of course, President Bush was blamed for 'starting' all this by naming the 'Axis of evil countries'. HE started it....not that THEY were countries up to absolutely no good. And helen was against the Afghanistan war too.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Nov 20, 2004 04:37 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on November 20, 2004 04:41:30 PM new
Libra said, and I agree with totally...
You don't know this for sure. You just said Al Qaeda was everywhere. Yes I believe they are everywhere because they want to see freedom destroyed.
I always enjoy that arguement from the left. 
They appear to believe that while AQ is all over the world....they totally avoided Iraq and weren't there. Of course, they have no proof of this...but they know from their media news and newspaper, who have been proven who many times by the 9-11 commission report. The press continued printing lies even after the report came out and you could see what they had said wasn't true.
But to them it's still true because they might have overlooked reading the NYT 'correction' of the stories....they're usually buried in the back section...well hidden.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Nov 20, 2004 04:46 PM ]
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 04:58:32 PM new
he was a seperate thread all unto himself.
A threat that was well contained. As far as Saddam and Hamas goes that was well documented as to his support of Hamas but that is not the issue here. Saddam and bin Laden did not like each other at all and Saddam would have considered him a threat to his regime.
As far as I understand it, the 911 Commission found no link either.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html
How can you keep saying all the papers and reports are left leaning when you support Fox News and the Rev. Sun Moon newspaper?
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Helenjw
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posted on November 20, 2004 05:20:36 PM new
Linda,
I wish that you would stop speaking for me. You have enough trouble clarifying your own thoughts.
I believe that the killing of innocent people to achieve a goal...in other words, terrorism...is morally reprehensible and unacceptable. Every single act of terrorism that we can name is beyond the bounds of any ethical principles. Of course that includes the 9/11 attacks amd the suicide bombings in Israel!
Speak for yourself, linda or at least take a stab at it.
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Linda_K
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posted on November 20, 2004 05:26:56 PM new
trai - I think you need to read the 9-11 commission report, the whole thing. Rather than taking it from the liberal media sources themselves.
Why do you think I read the Washington Times and watch and occassionally read Fox News....along with a ton of others? For the same reason thousands are...to hear the other side...not from a liberal slant. Have you noticed how much Fox News has gained in viewship, ratings and how viewership of the alphabet news media are losing their viewership?
Many are leaving the alphabet stations in droves. They are now clearly seeing their bias...after their TOTAL support of kerry.
I'm also thinking maybe you haven't read the Liberation Act of Iraq? Signed by clinton in either '94 or '96...I don't recall. But it was a *law* that passed to state our *NATIONAL POLICY* towards Iraq and saddam was to have regime change. This didn't begin with President Bush saying Iraq was a threat when all believed him to be.....the last three administrations.
Read some of the clinton cabinet's articles during his administration and show anyone here where anyone in that administration EVER said saddam was not a threat. I'll bet you won't find any from clinton's administrations? Ever wonder why? Because saddam WAS. clinton didn't bomb their country for four days in Dec. '98 because he thought they were 'good guys'.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 05:46:03 PM new
I read a vast number of news sources so that I can at least get a balanced view of things. I also watch different news channels from around the world.
I can pretty well tell when they seem to lean one way or another so at least I can glean some tidbits from it all.
I still feel Iran should of been on the hit list first imo.
The pictures are real as they do show U.S. troops who where killed in action. Not nice at all.
I will not bother to rehash all the old argument's from the last couple of months as there is no point in it.
Time will tell.
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kiara
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posted on November 20, 2004 06:01:40 PM new
For anyone here to look at those pictures and then argue that the war is justified it is selfish and heartless thinking. What makes you think your head is worth the price of all the dead and injured innocent people including the children, 1220 American soldiers and about 10,000 severely wounded American soldiers?
What makes you think that you are worth that cost? What are you doing that's so valuable to this world that your life be spared and others should lose theirs while you sit there calling for more war, saying it's to protect your freedom and to make you safer?
Do you really think you are all that more important than others in this world and that all others want to be just like you and should be just like you? And if so, why?
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Twelvepole
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posted on November 20, 2004 06:10:20 PM new
Your question deserve no answer, who are you to question the US's security?
War is ugly and should be.... those live lost maybe saving 100's of thousands... even yours... if you think so little of your own life... grab some food and medicine and head to Baghdad... so many of the chickenshit so called humanitarians are leaving...
I thank those soldiers and have two nephews there, but I still believe we are in the right and it was the right thing to do...
Sometimes in this world, I wonder about yours, sacrifices have to be made for the betterment of others and the US...
But please feel free to keep demeaning those who have lost their lives there by your petty ideology...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
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kiara
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posted on November 20, 2004 06:17:47 PM new
You've read my message wrong. I'm not the one demeaning anyone that has lost their life there.
The war in Iraq has nothing to do with your security. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
Edited for spelling.
[ edited by kiara on Nov 20, 2004 06:22 PM ]
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parklane64
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posted on November 20, 2004 06:24:26 PM new
For anyone here to look at 911 and then argue that the war is not justified it is stupid and hopeless thinking.
Put that where the sun don't shine.
__________
The Democrats were rejected by a majority of Americans
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 06:34:45 PM new
For anyone here to look at 911 and then argue that the war is not justified it is stupid and hopeless thinking.
Put that where the sun don't shine.
Dont be so hard on yourself. 911... bin Laden... al qaeda....... so why don't we hit Saudi Arabia as that's where most of these dickheads came from.
Iraq was not responsible for 911.
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Twelvepole
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posted on November 20, 2004 07:51:13 PM new
Iraq was PREemptive... please look that word up... then come back, hopefully more intelligent than you are now...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
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trai
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posted on November 20, 2004 09:16:11 PM new
I'm very well aware what the word means. Nothing wrong with my thinking process. Thanks for asking.
If you want to go down that road by strike first ask questions later just in case they may cause a problem later we will be at war forever.
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