posted on August 28, 2000 07:35:37 AM new
I think a few people need to read up on monopolies; perhaps economics in general. Those that do legally exist are "controlled" .. take the elecric companies mentioned for example ... they exist because the premise holds true that to have competition would be to the detriment of the end user. If they were not controlled, you couldn't afford electric service in your home. They have to get permission to raise fees!
Monopolies can be built on many platforms.. one being simple market control! It does not make it any less of a monopoly. Read the 2nd half of todie's definition. Fits ebay pretty well. Exclusive control does NOT mean that ebay has exclusive control of the internet in the auction industry .. but it does (currently) have exclusive control of ENOUGH of the market to make it a monopoly in MO. Granted my OPINION does not, of course make it so!
I would love to read a dissertation (a REAL one) on this topic. If I still lived near Yale instead of in the boonies (which I DO prefer), I would head to their library to do some reading.
Edited to separate my post from my sig line .. LOL! Why don't they have one of those automtic line thingies!
_____
I have a memory like a steel trap .. unfortunately it's rusted shut!
[ edited by tuition44years on Aug 28, 2000 07:38 AM ]
posted on August 28, 2000 07:48:50 AM new
That's nonsense.
If all the kids at school insist on wearing only a particular brand of clothing or shoes, and shun all others, the company that makes that brand does not have any sort of monopoly. The company only has phenomenal success amongst it's competitors. If all the kids in school chose another brand as the only acceptable one to wear, the first will flop on the dock like a fish in the agony of untimely death.
posted on August 28, 2000 08:17:33 AM new
I don't see "monopoly," I see "market leader and innovator in an industry in its infancy." Anyway, I think everything will change as the market goes seriously global. I'm keeing my eye on the interface utilities like advanced search engines that can unify the entire marketplace behind one GUI, so to speak, making the sales sites act more as servers than immersion experiences. (Why do you think eBay fought the searching of its site so strenuously?) I also look to other developments--licensing of individual sellers on a global scale, a full-blown and legally constituted not-for-profit seller's organization, etc.--that could unify completely independent sellers on their own websites, and bring them together through a search engine or some other means to delivers a customized marketplace to the prospective buyer, the costs covered by the licensing fees--no per-transaction fleecing. THAT is the revolution we should work for, instead of lobbing silly names at corporations that are just doing what comes naturally. JMO.
posted on August 28, 2000 09:18:26 AM new
In a helpful little pamphlet, prepared using your tax dollars, the Department of Justice, Anti-Trust Division would like you, the consumer, to know what the anti-trust laws of the United States do for you. Read it at:
The most salient portion of this document, in regards to the argument that eBay is a monopoly, is excerpted below:
The Sherman Act also makes it a crime to monopolize any part of interstate commerce. An unlawful monopoly exists when only one firm provides a product or service, and it has become the only supplier not because its product or service is superior to others, but by suppressing competition with anticompetitive conduct. The Act is not violated simply when one firm's vigorous competition and lower prices take sales from its less efficient competitors; rather, that is competition working properly.
The pamphlet also states: When the competitive system is operating effectively, there is no need for government intrusion. Amen to that.
Those that like to compare eBay’s market dominance to Microsoft’s dominance of the PC operating system market fail to remember that the key aspects of the anti-trust laws are as follows:
The Sherman Act outlaws all contracts, combinations, and conspiracies that unreasonably restrain interstate trade. This includes agreements among competitors to fix prices, rig bids and allocate customers.
The Clayton Act prohibits mergers or acquisitions that are likely to lessen competition. Under the Act, the government challenges those mergers that a careful economic analysis shows are likely to increase prices to consumers.
The Federal Trade Commission Act prohibits unfair methods of competition in interstate commerce.
Until someone can prove that eBay conspires with it’s competitors to fix prices (Sherman Act), is buying companies to gain control of the marketplace (Clayton Act) or is using unfair tactics in the marketplace (FTC Act – and this is where they nailed Microsoft) their chances of making a case for a prosecutable monopoly are slim to none.
Please note that there is nothing illegal with attempting to be a dominant competitor by becoming extensively vertically integrated. Ebay’s acquisitions have been targeted to providing a single source shopping point for all auction related services (i.e. vertical integration) not as the sole source of on-line auctions.
Dr. Beetle
(Edited to un-dangle a participle)
[ edited by DoctorBeetle on Aug 28, 2000 09:22 AM ]
posted on August 28, 2000 09:29:03 AM new
Brilliant, he take care of bugs, AND he cares about grammar. The heck with Jerry Brown.
Doctor Beetle for President!
posted on August 28, 2000 01:55:41 PM new
DoctorBeetle:
In response to statements about the ebay monopoly that we are currently seeing:
"Until someone can prove that eBay conspires with it’s competitors to fix prices (Sherman Act), is buying companies to gain control of the marketplace (Clayton Act) or is using unfair tactics in the marketplace (FTC Act – and this is where they nailed Microsoft) their chances of making a case for a prosecutable monopoly are slim to none. " (Doctor Beetle's thoughts)
I don't think ebay conspires with its competitors to fix prices (neither was bill gates since you brought him up) so that is not the issue here. Actually most other sites are free or close to it. This is actually what our gas companies have been doing lately and not really pertinent to this discussion so we'll let that one rest. About using unfair tactics they are definitely guilty of this. Proof of this was when they bought out AAPRO to hurt their competitors and keep their monopoly running. Their attempts to merge with yahoo this spring proved they wanted to squelch any competition. The fact that eBay doesn't want their auctions listed in the same online auction search engines such as Bidders Edge prove that ebay is trying to distance their customers from other potential sites thus ruining the chances of those sites every getting off the ground since ebay does hold with an iron fist 95% of the online auction industry. About the price fixing part they haven't been involved in raising their prices since Sept 1, 1999. I do know that it will happen again based on a few big name mergers they have made lately and the implications that those bring to the table and the fact that their stockholders are upset about all the money they have been consistently losing being invested in ebay that they will have no other choice but to raise prices to rescue them. If eBay raises its prices from a basic listing fee of $0.25-$0.35 or raises basic commissions from 5%-7.5% will it be considered a monopoly then? I guess time will tell. The fact of the matter is that when they do do that no one will be able to go anywhere else and be successful because they have all put all their eggs in one basket. It is a trap under the fist of a 1000 lb gorilla as stated before by many other disgruntled ebay members. eBay is a monopoly and will be exposed for being a monopoly soon I hope.
As far as my standing with eBay:
Incase you guys haven't been able to figure it out by now I do not care at all for epay. I have never called for their dustruction. I have called for two things: The destructions of the epay monopoly and the reinstatement of my account which was wrongly taken from me. I want to hear some of you people who so firmly support ebay on here explain to me why it is right for them to withhold the information in my case in which they have accused me of fraud and refuse to state their proof for this accusation. I have waited 8 months and in case they haven't noticed after 23 emails, 6 phone calls, website designed against them, my postings on this board, and my email correspondance with hundreds of other disgruntled ebayers and growing everyday, I am not going away anytime soon. If anyone cares to respond I'll be back in a couple hours. Thanks for your time.
posted on August 28, 2000 02:24:19 PM newafter 23 emails, 6 phone calls, website designed against them, my postings on this board, and my email correspondance with hundreds of other disgruntled ebayers
posted on August 28, 2000 02:33:08 PM new
Well timeforebaytodie, after seven pages or your incessant repertoire, yes I get it: You “do not care at all for epay”. Actually, I “got it” with your first (now edited) post.
I know, I know – “...23 emails, 6 phone calls, website designed against them, my postings on this board, and my email correspondance (sic) with hundreds of other disgruntled ebayers...”
It looks like you are really pressuring them with this diabolical and multi-pronged campaign that you have formulated and I have no doubt that you will soon enjoy success and the vindication that you are seeking. Once that occurs we will all owe you a tremendous debt of gratitude.
I am currently a seller in good standing and have never had a problem with any of my ID’s. However, I have a lot to list, and now, with your campaign reaching fever pitch after enjoying the “bounce” provided by AW boards, I must redouble my efforts ‘fore you slay the eBay dragon. Once you plunge the lance through the heart of the fire-breathing (yet strangely incommunicado) eBay monopolistic monster I’ll be screwed and have to list my stuff on those other crappy sites. Give me about another 8 weeks, OK?
posted on August 28, 2000 02:39:46 PM new
Ben--Ebay was an introduction for me to on line selling. It is not the be all and end all. Move on--see what else is out there. You will be pleasantly surprised! Honest
posted on August 28, 2000 02:39:54 PM new
Corrdogg:
Well I'm glad you have had no trouble with ebay yet but don't lull yourself into a false sense of security. I can give you lists of people who also were never warned and all of a sudden booted from their site. Do I expect ebay to die overnight? no, it takes a while to bring down a monster. As stated before I don't want to kill it just the monopoly. I'm sure we all appreciate your attempts at being a commedian with your post but don't give up the day job... ...
posted on August 28, 2000 02:41:29 PM new
jean: I have been out there, I know whats out there, dead ends, ebay is a 1000 lb gorilla that is sitting on 95% of the online auction industry. Can't be profitable outside of it. That is why it is time to end the ebay monopoly.
posted on August 28, 2000 02:41:39 PM new
eBay can raise their prices %1000 and it still won't make them a monopoly. Since they are not conspiring with anyone else to fix industry wide prices their prices are immaterial. Lexus costs a lot more than Volkswagon, does this make Lexus a monopoly?
eBay bought one of dozens of auction management software vendors to increase their vertical integration. How does this make them a monopoly?
eBay decides that they don't want their website's contents listed in off-site search engines. They decide that their content shouldn't be used by a competitor to increase the competitor's market share or profitibility. Sounds like a smart business decision to me.
I strongly suggest that you e-mail the Department of Justice Anti-Trust Division and present your case. The part about the 23 e-mails will surely be the final nail in eBay's coffin.
posted on August 28, 2000 02:42:12 PM new
Oh, boy...I haven't chuckled so much in a LONG time...
Come on, dude...you call yourself "TimeForEbayToDie" and claim that all you want is to be reinstated. Are YOU really that incapable of seeing how diametrically opposed those two poses are?
I have no problems with eBay. It is a VALUABLE source of income for me (I do own an antiques shoppe, but August is a tough time, and I still have rent to pay), as well as a venue wherein I have found (and still find) some wonderful and quirky additions to my collections and my inventory.
If you are unhappy with eBay, and you've been NARU'd, then be done with it. Why waste time, psychic energy, and risk Carpal Tunnel Syndrome by typing your long odes against something you claim to find intolerable, but still wish to be a part of.
The quickest way to "break eBay's monopoly" is to list elsewhere...en masse. If you don't, then don't complain because eBay is the largest. It will remain so.
posted on August 28, 2000 02:47:50 PM new
Skorpio: If you would have read the previous posts before commenting here you would know the reason I continue to be upset and want to return to ebay is the fact that I have over 20,000 magazines I bought over 2 years while I was on ebay for the sole purpose of listing them week in and week out. I have no real way selling these now. I have tried other auction sites and have recieved about 5% of the sales I did on ebay if that, which is the market size of everyone else outside of ebay. I will continueing posting till such a time as I have my two issues with ebay resolved. I have been more than patient with them, now I go on the offensive, if you don't like what I have to say and it makes you mad then too bad, I am stating the facts, if you would like to defend ebay's actions against me please state your reasons for doing so I would be glad to hear them.
posted on August 28, 2000 02:56:37 PM new
Sell the magazines, in bulk, in the same market you bought them from. If you should only break even, you still have saved yourself a lot of grief.
posted on August 28, 2000 02:58:28 PM new
Any of you people who have sold your heart and soul out to ebay want to explain how this makes you feel about the safety of your private information and security:
Your 4th Amendment Rights are toilet paper at eBay! Quote from Lexington Herald
``If an investigator calls, we tell them don't bother with a subpoena. We give them names, addresses, telephone numbers, credit-card numbers, whatever we can,'' said ****** *******, a former federal prosecutor who now works for eBay.
I'm all for cracking down on the rippoffs and scams, but not at the expense of 99% of the people's privacy. Is there a single person that is not outraged at this? How many con artist do you think will call tomorrow claiming to be "an investigator" to get the credit card numbers and addresses of ebay users?
posted on August 28, 2000 02:58:39 PM new
Ben--other sites are not a dead end for me. Come on---don't be shy--give em another try again.
eBay is like a balloon about to burst--we will be able to tell our grandchildren how we were on line in the prehistoric ages and how everyone perceived there was only one venue. And the key word is "perceived".
edited to add to Ben's last comment--ain't got nothin to hide. Delve away
[ edited by jeanyu on Aug 28, 2000 03:01 PM ]
posted on August 28, 2000 03:01:57 PM new
Okay ToDie, let's suppose that you are absolutely correct, that eBay is the worst monopoly since the days of big railroad. Going further, pretend that the Department of Justice agrees with you, brings suit against eBay, and wins.
They call you and say "ToDie, what should we do to them? What do you think will work?"
Tell us your solution. I would find it fascinating.
posted on August 28, 2000 03:02:26 PM new
stock: I appreciate your recommendation, however this is not the point of this conversation so I don't want to go too far down that path, I was planning on making those magazine sales a long term sideline money making scheme which was bringing in about $2000 a week for me.
jean: I have been trying for about 8 months now. I think I have been trying long enough to know that with only 5% of the auction industry looking at your stuff you will not succeed...
posted on August 28, 2000 03:04:49 PM new
Beetle: That is for the courts to decide. I'm not saying its going to be easy but it has to be done. Ok I'm heading off for about 2 hours, I'll be back. chow!
posted on August 28, 2000 03:07:48 PM new
Canada was formed in 1867. It took us over 100 years after that to get around to formulating a Bill of Rights (O.K., we're procrastinators).
It was YOUR choice to purchase this inordinate number of magazines to sell on eBay...no one else's. So, if you CHOSE to overextend yourself, and possibly render your home unnavigable, that is ALL on you.
You vaguely allude to the circumstances which led to your NARU, but I still am unsure of all facts. From what you say, it was a SINGLE incident with NO investigation and no response from eBay. If that is so, then I can see your frustration.
However, it is how you act that will get you results. When I have a complaint, I don't rant, rave, demand, or shout. That will ensure that I NEVER get heard. Instead, I am methodical, direct, and calm. That will usually get me what I want: an answer.
If you were listing too many auctions, and didn't keep adequate records to ensure that all your customers received their merchandise, that feedback was left for your customers, and that you know what to claim as income on your tax returns, THAT AGAIN IS ON YOU.
You claim to have NEVER received an email from eBay...with your records, how can you be sure? I feel that something is missing from your story, and your lack of disclosure makes what you say somewhat suspect.
I also think that eight months later, you could quietly re-register, and start again. (Yes, I know that's a HUGE no-no, but really now, you CHOSE to start this thread, your infamous website, and you generally tilt at every windmill you find).
If you TRULY wished to rid yourself of 20,000 magazines (where I live, recycling is picked up on Tuesday), then you would be maintaining a low profile to do what you SHOULD be doing: Earning money, paying your bills.
That you CHOOSE not to is again, ON YOU.
Let it go already. As was already suggested, if you're not doing well on other sites, then perhaps you aren't selling the right things.
And since you said earlier that you "contact" losing bidders in auctions to peddle your wares, you are nothing more then a bottom feeder, and I have no sympathy for you.
Like I said: I think your NARU involves something else. And you won't tell, because it would show that, perhaps, eBay was right in sending you packing.
posted on August 28, 2000 03:13:28 PM new
Sorry Todie,
But 4th Amendment rights, or ANY constitutional rights have no application in private industry. They apply to legal enactments.
The plain fact is that ebay doesn't give a rat's ass what you do. In your eight month hiatus, a half million or more replacements for you have signed on. Get used to it; they DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU.
posted on August 28, 2000 05:23:34 PM new
What a cop-out Todie. We gave you the power to decide, the power to take the 10,000 pound gorilla and break him up into 100's of little monkeys.
You say they have too much power, that they should be brought to their knees, well come on, tell us what you would do with them.
I agree with alot of what you say about ebay (from a sellers perspective, anyway), but don't you realize that people don't *want* to change?
You will never convince anyone to leave ebay as long as they think they can make money there - it is that cut and dry.
Jeanyu gave you some super advice - try some other venues!
I buy a lot of things on ebay that would go for far more elsewhere, simply because the competition there is so fierce. Once I realized that, I quit selling on ebay and started buying. Open your eyes - there is more than one way to skin a cat.
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on this topic. If I still lived near Yale instead of in the boonies (which I DO prefer), I would head to their library to do some reading.