posted on January 31, 2005 02:55:35 PM new
What if kraft? What if we would of soundly kicked Britains ass in 1812... then Canada would belong to the US...
posted on January 31, 2005 03:07:19 PM newLinda, you can't keep telling everyone that the left feels no war is worth fighting.
I don't have to ....they prove it themselves, by their own words. Want to find a thread where kiara, helen, cheryl etc. ACTUALLY SAID THEY SUPPORTED EITHER WAR. I never read one of them saying that. You did at first, and then changed your mind.
You also keep saying nobody on the left supports the troops because they don't cheer at their victories, even though people like Helen, Cheryl, Kiara, Crowfarm, Logan, etc., keep telling you their ultimate support is in bringing these guys home. LOL....guess that's the BIGGEST difference between the peace-at-any-cost people listed about...and those who know military life. Being negative about EVERYthing that has gone....is being negative and NOT supportive of our soldiers mission. That's what you don't get. You can't pay lipservice to our troops and not want them to do the job they're hired to do. That's just crazy thinking from those who oppose all war.
You don't like the fact that there are millions who believe the U.S. isn't justified in being in Iraq,
millions in other countries....like you and kiara...don't count...it's not your country. You don't choose to live here...and until you do you're only expressing your opinion. But it doesn't hold the same level of 'clout' that being an American voter does. And the American voters, [b]knowing all they already knew still chose to re-elect this President.
yet you still protest that the end justifies the means. If that's true, what is the end?
Not positive, but I'd say a long way down the line when terrorist all over the world get the message....don't tread on me [us the US]
Osama wasn't in Iraq. There were no terrorist camps. No womd.
Guess what? AGAIN...we're already there...even though I disagree with what you've stated...I'm not going to fight the past with you for the next four years. It's over...we're there.
The Hussein's were ousted/killed - no difference. You're now there for liberation and to spread democracy in the deeply ingrained religious middle east, even though these insurgents (who have nothing to lose) are breeding like mosquitoes to fight against the U.S. invasion.
And you're suggestion would be??? What to run and wait for them to get a strong hold in Iraq, gain weapons so they can come after us? And just sit and wait for them to come? I don't agree....acting pro-actively against terrorism is the right way to handle the problem...take them out/on one by one until they decide they're done. Because it's not ever going to end until one side wins, KD...and I'm on OUR side.
(And while all this is happening, don't you ever notice how obviously absent the words OIL and HALLIBURTON are from this scenerio?) What is the end? There yu go again..don't want to discuss the Canadian companies involved in supporting saddam's terrorism....from the OFF program...but you sure like focusing on Hallibuton...a company the VP ONCE worked for...not still...not since he was elected.
IMHO the Iraqi's, while going through the motions of a democratic beginning, won't feel free until the U.S. is out of the picture, which won't be soon.
You choose to only 'hear' one side of the Iraqi's and what they want. But it's just like our dems and reps...it all depends on who you're listening to.
We have been told they want us to stay for now....what happens in the future is anybody's guess. IF they can start protecting themselves from their own who don't wish for them to be free, then I would bet we'll start withdrawing. But not totally...never totally...just like we haven't from the countries clinton sent troops into. They're still there. Troops are still in Japan and Germany...I don't see Iraq being any different.
They're all just puppets to the U.S. until you're gone.
Answered above ^^^^
cheryl said:
Well said, KD! That's coming from a strong supporter of Dennis Kucinich. Like anybody in this country was listening to him either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on January 31, 2005 03:32:50 PM new
Linda, supporting a war and supporting the troops are 2 separate issues. Don't pretend you don't realize that.
Your post shows a lot of chest pounding but behind the scene, your President is begging other countries for military aid.
"Don't tread on me"... or what?? We'll spend all our money, jobs, go bankrupt, etc., to fight you? And you think that's winning? LoL! You guys started this whole mess and the sad thing is, you guys are going to pay through the nose for it all as your country sinks deeper and deeper into debt for this war that will never end.
Why aren't you helping in the Sudan? Do you realize how many people are getting killed each day over there? What about Haiti? Why only the middle east when there are far worse dictators than Saddam at large??
posted on January 31, 2005 03:38:35 PM new
Linda_K, will you please leave my name out of your wild assumptions and rants about how you think some of us view the world. I do know my own mind and what I believe in and what I've said here. Several times I mentioned my support for the war in Afghanistan and that I thought it was the right war at the time and that Iraq isn't.
You've proven over and over that you don't have a clue what I really think and you've categorized me wrongly. So unless I say something that all can view, please keep your mouth shut about me and what you believe I think. Thank you.
posted on January 31, 2005 05:18:20 PM new
KD - When one gives lip service to a military force that they don't want to do anything, except?; they haven't wanted to support in our federal budgets; when their party reduces our military funding so we are able to defend ourselves; when they say they want what's in the world's best interests - rather than our own; when it's more important to them how the world sees our actions, than the reason for them, their cry to bringing the soldiers home, is a joke.
It fits well into their anti-war position though - this pretense. It's just that enough American's see though this false 'support' because they didn't want them sent to defend this country in the first place. So of course they'd want them home. Hel1, helen wanted us to admit defeat. How many soldiers do you think would have supported that notion when they serve BECAUSE they WANT to defend this nation and act in it's best interests.
The men and women of our Armed Forces CHOOSE to serve their country...something some lefties here just don't get...and most likely never will. But while we all worry about injuries and death of those who are serving [the left has no 'special' hold on that concern]...WE DO support removing terrorists, like saddam, who have been a threat to world peace for 35 years.
Maybe you lefties need to start posting links to all the Iraqi's who wanted to vote for another saddam regime...rather than whichever party they voted for a couple of days ago. Say what you want....the Iraqi's want their freedom as do all people. Had the left held the majority saddam would still be in power...doing his evil deeds. Many would have died and been injured at his hands and those of his sons. But the anti-war complainers are more than willing to overlook all those he murdered, tortured, raped, etc. but they are just a little to quick to always be willing to find US soldiers to bash....and when they do something positive...like provide protection for the Iraqi people to vote....do we hear praise? No....more Bush bashing.
But hey...if you have ANY links proving where any of those listed people have EVEN posted a good word for our troops....or for what our government did in Afghanistan or Iraq...I'd sure love to see them. Because I've never seen that support....only negativity about their missions.
The missions THEY feel proud of when they are successful.
Saying withdraw our troops isn't supporting their missions. And not at all the reason we support a military force.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
Want to find a thread where kiara, helen, cheryl etc. ACTUALLY SAID THEY SUPPORTED EITHER WAR.
By EITHER WAR, I am guessing you mean Afghanistan? I supported that one and I have said that. I never said I didn't support Afghanistan. I want bin Laden found as badly as everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) on this board does. So, you can leave my name out of that one. What I have said is that we have bombed Afghanistan and then walked away. That I don't support.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on January 31, 2005 09:02:47 PM new
Linda, I'm really amazed at the way you've chosen to view some of the people here. I've never heard Cheryl, Helen, Kiara, Prof, Crowfarm, Maggie, Bunni, Logan, Fenix... any of these people ever say they were against the war in Afghanistan OR they were against getting rid of Hussein. This has NOTHING to do with the war against Iraq, OK? To call their support "false" and a joke is awful.
You keep talking about the U.S. defending itself. From who? A typical American response. You probably have 10 machine guns hiding in your closet for protection against the boogie man. Brother!
posted on February 1, 2005 12:29:51 AM newI'm really amazed at the way you've chosen to view some of the people here.
Really...did you miss all the posts where others called helen bagdad helen...hanoi helen...all the posters who could easily she was against our actions there?
But I feel your pain as I watch some here bash our soldiers efforts rather than offering words of support for their successful missions. Like this last one....only more bitching. Over and over and over again...no words of "I hope they're successful...in Fallujah..."I hope they're successful in protecting the citizens so they can vote....nope only criticisms of how many innocent civilians they're killing...the poor Iraqi's whose homes they're invading....the torture of the Iraqi captives...our soldiers are torturers. They're bombing and killing babies. Posting of pictures of how terrible what our soldiers have done....deformed babies...burnt babies...On and on about all the terrible things our troops are doing. I don't consider that support for our troops in any way, shape or form. NO WAY.
I've never heard Cheryl, Helen, Kiara, Prof, Crowfarm, Maggie, Bunni, Logan, Fenix... any of these people ever say they were against the war in Afghanistan OR they were against getting rid of Hussein.
KD - I didn't mention all those names. And I'll take bunni out of the group and say that while I know she didn't agree with this war...and she doesn't like Bush one bit...I'd NEVER call her anti-American or say SHE doesn't support our troops...because I've never seen her post the way so many others have.
And I feel the same way about fenix...and I've never noticed maggie's view on Afghanistan...I didn't even know she was here when that was going on. Nor has she made any post, that I've read, that make me feel she's that way either.
I've never noticed the profe doing the same either. So I DON'T see ALL here in the same light.
It's the rest of you that have done nothing but be anti-American policy...policy set by our Congress...which includes the dems AND point out all our troops actions that you haven't liked.
This has NOTHING to do with the war against Iraq, OK? Got that. To call their support "false" and a joke is awful. It's how I've seen their posts KD. And there have been many that agree with how I've seen it too. They've just grown weary of rehashing it all the time. Nothings going to change either sides minds.
You keep talking about the U.S. defending itself. From who?
See what I mean? Gee, some do understand who we're after and why we're doing what we are. Hard to believe you don't have a clue - we discuss it here all the time...it's on the news all the time. But you still don't get it. [shaking my head in TOTAL disbelief]
A typical American response. You probably have 10 machine guns hiding in your closet for protection against the boogie man. Brother! Nope I don't. Our soldiers are doing the job of protecting this nation....and a DAMN good job they're doing too. And that's why the American people re-elected this President....not kerry. But even kerry has said he doesn't agree with ol' kennedy. He wouldn't immediately withdraw our troops. Security is important. Now, of course, HE would have been your 'other' chance...but that didn't work out. You liberals were probably just hoping he say that and get in office and withdraw the troops. He never could make up his mind what he'd do... Glad the choice wasn't put in his hands.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on February 1, 2005 01:59:02 AM new
Please leave my name off the list when you talk about those who don't support the troops or those that bash the troops, Linda_K. You know absolutely nothing about me or my family or my friends, how this affects us or how we think.
Several times I've posted a link to a website that someone else put here at one time where some of us view their faces and ages and hometowns and see them as individuals and real people because it's pretty well hushed up when they return home in coffins.
We've shown concern for the injured and we've followed some of the stories about how they and their families try to adapt when they return home. I posted a link just a couple of months ago to show you there were also female troops in Iraq because you were unaware they served.
I've heard you say over and over that the number of deaths is small and that it is 'accepted as the price we pay for our freedom.'
Now you've changed it...... that their deaths are in exchange for the Iraqi's freedom. After you have laughed along with others who called the Iraqis "POS" and expressed desire to nuke the whole country, someone who shows contempt for many countries.
So I feel that you are the one with the false support and you use the troops one way and then another so you can support Bush whereas the rest of us you are naming here have shown steadfast loyalty and support for the troops and want them to return home safely.
Glad to hear your nephews are coming home, Twelve. I hope they don't have to return.
posted on February 1, 2005 02:17:17 AM new
Kiara....how many times have you told me to shove it up my a$$? At least three times. How many times have you told me you'll post and say whatever you wish? Over and over again.
But you want me to leave you out of MY posts when I'm expressing MY views/opinions? When you're constantly slamming American policy? LOL
but I will give you an A+ for how you asked so nicely....so out of character from the way you usually post to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on February 1, 2005 02:31:22 AM new
Just to point out how you can so casually lie to others....
I posted a link just a couple of months ago to show you there were also female troops in Iraq because you were unaware they served.
And said so nicely too. Anyone who believes the lie you've just stated as truth...now gets a better look into your true character - one who can lie so easily.
I've heard you say over and over that the number of deaths is small and that it is 'accepted as the price we pay for our freedom.'
Now you've changed it...... [i]that their deaths are in exchange for the Iraqi's freedom.
I wouldn't EVER expect you to 'get' it kiara. Our soldiers were sent over there to protect the US from the threats our past THREE administrations and our Congress at the time, believed saddam presented. NOW we're fighting the terrorists that have come into Iraq and the left-over remains of saddam supporters. GET IT? Better there than on our home land? No...you obviously don't 'get' much.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on February 1, 2005 02:37:43 AM new
How come kiara is always the spokesman and enunciator for the "some of us", "rest of us" and the, "some others"? Wonder when the other "some of us's" will please sign in?
posted on February 1, 2005 02:44:33 AM new
LOL...you noticed. It's just part of kiara's game playing...because she then turns around and constantly is demanding I list just WHOM I'm referring to if I use the word 'they'.
It's that darn ol' double standand rearing it's oh-so-clearly-seen head.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
Again, I never said I didn't support the war in Afghanistan - NEVER. I didn't support our going in and just abruptly leaving them to pursue other things. So, please remove my name from your list of people you consider un-American or anti-American. My protest about a war based on lies is exactly what makes me American. This is not Cuba. We are not yet a dictatorship. We are free to say what is on our minds and we are free to protest. It's in the Constitution. THAT MAKES US AMERICAN. How dare you or anyone else here call any of us un-American. You haven't that right. If anyone is to be called anti- or un-American, I believe it is you for your narrowmindedness, bigotry and your refusal to see beyond the nose on your face. You point your finger at too many people. Perhaps you should turn around and point it at yourself.
That's all I'm saying on the subject. Angry Cheryl has left the building, calm Cheryl is returning. Carry on.
Cheryl
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." ~ P.J. O'Rourke
posted on February 1, 2005 06:50:44 AM new
I didn't lie about the link I posted to show Linda_K that female troops also served in Iraq. I remember it well.
As for the others I speak of, it's the names on Linda_K's list and how she's taken it upon herself to paint us as anti-American. She has now selectively named Helen, Cheryl, Kraft, Crowfarm and myself.
I resent that she makes me out to be anti-American and some far left anti-war extremist when she couldn't be further from the truth. So yes, I ask her to please take my name off the list because she is obviously clueless as to the person I truly am.
Really...did you miss all the posts where others called helen bagdad helen...hanoi helen...all the posters who could easily she was against our actions there?
'All the posters'? Only a couple of Linda_K's supporters repeatedly called Helen that.
posted on February 1, 2005 07:05:19 AM new
You're either a VERY stupid person, a liar or you're playing your little grade school games again, kiara. Because I seriously doubt that ANYONE else here would believe that I didn't know women served in our military.
And while I'm at it....it wasn't MY list...it was KD's. So you want to blame someone for a 'list' then speak to her about it. I commented on who I believe truly supports our troops and why I don't think you others have.
It's all lip-service you've paid to them. All those things that have been said about our soldiers...that I mentioned are TRUE. And it's also true that no one has yet posted ANY positive comments they've ever made in support of our troops NOR have I ever seem them defending our troops actions when they've been accused of all that 'killing'.
It's laughable that anyone would believe our troops would find ANY support in those posts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on February 1, 2005 07:17:37 AM new
Yes, Kiara, I remember well linduh's post where she didn't know women served !
Several people had to correct her.
Kiara, Cheryl......just remember the positive side of this......at least you're not her poor daughter-in-law......can you imagine the hell that poor thing goes through when Mommy-in-law-dearest is around with her sick need to be right all the time.
[ edited by crowfarm on Feb 1, 2005 08:01 AM ]
posted on February 1, 2005 07:56:43 AM new
Linda you are the most un-American person I have ever met.
Just because people speak out against the war and American policy does not make them un-American or does not mean they do not support the troops. It is called freedom of speach. You still have not said what you think of those troops that speak out against the war.
Linda you don't want anyone else saying what you think and feel but you have done the same over and over in this thread
Keep beating your chest and claiming you know everything about the military. Just because you are a parent of a soldier does not make you Collin Powel. If beating your chest and waving a flag keeps you from worrying about the dangers you son faces day after day, then continue to do it.
Lastly, you don't know me and what I have done to support the troops so I would appreciate if you would stop trying to read my mind with your crystal ball. I have always said it was right to go into Afghanistan, but I will stay by my feelings about Iraq.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on February 1, 2005 08:11:33 AM new
I believe that we (US) should protect, and have the right to protect our country,in any means necessary to preserve our freedom,and the rights and values, of our Great Country.
I believe we should not impose our ideals on other countries...
But that is very simplistic, as DBLF..would say..
..of course it can't be that easy.. in order for us to keep our ideals and standard of life, it will mean that we will have to compromise our moral values..it's a given...to sustain.. we will need more and we will take more.
some will argue that this is wrong others will see it as right and the only way to protect and preserve what we believe has made this country of ours the most powerful, free country in the world... Maggie
posted on February 1, 2005 08:28:57 AM new
Thanks, Crowfarm....... I knew someone would remember.
I've never once bashed the troops. Linda_K can try to turn me into someone else in her mind so that it suits her need to rant here but the ones I care about in my life know the kind of person I really am and that's what counts.
posted on February 1, 2005 09:00:25 AM new
Linda, I also remember Kiara posting about female troops after you said there weren't any. Sorry.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on February 1, 2005 09:37:47 AM new
bunni - No reason to be sorry...but a reason to be correct.
I think you might be having another 'full story' memory problem like you did the last time when you agreed with crowfarm. Then you pulled the link up and both you and KD admitted I was correct and that crowfarm owned me an apology.
I believe history is repeating itself.
I would never had said there are NO female troops....my son is a Marine...I've visited three of the bases where he was stationed. I saw TONS of women soldiers....and believe I even posted about the my surprise at the high number of them that were there when my granddaughter was born.
I'd have NO reason to say there are not female troops....kiara's just playing games and, in all honesty, and said with full respect to you, your memory is wrong once again.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on February 1, 2005 09:39:31 AM new Good post...logansdad!
Linda, since you are here 24/7 with your dumb insults and personal attacks, I have to wonder if you may drive some good posters away. Review your comments.
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