Shoshanah
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posted on August 30, 2000 09:31:43 PM new
"much to do about nothing..."...Who wrote that? Am having another senior moment...
As of a few hours hours ago, my account had not been emptied by the greedy paypal people...My seller was super happy I paid her with Paypal...I'm sure "they" must be up to no good.....
Go PAYPAL... 
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
[ edited by Shoshanah on Aug 30, 2000 10:00 PM ]
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uaru
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posted on August 30, 2000 09:41:41 PM new
"Where did PayPal inform me that bidders would receieve a "unverified account" message when trying to send payment to my account?"
Spreland, I'm not sure what answer your looking for anymore. This didn't seem to answer your question.
"You can see whether a seller is Verified on the confirmation page before you Send Money or complete a payment. Please note that the Guarantee does not apply when you pay Unverified accounts."
If that didn't answer your question then I don't believe this one will either from PayPal's Buyer Protection Guarantee"
You may check the verification status of a Seller on every confirmation page before you Send Money.
The issue of verification was dealt with rather extensively weeks ago on this board.
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jema
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posted on August 30, 2000 09:52:02 PM new
the answer is to verify an empty X.com account
How do you open an x.com account? I don't see this option anywhere on the site. Is this a free account, or is it a business account that you have to pay a fee to use? I have not been "verified" because I don't want to give my checking acct info, but I like the idea of the X.com acct just for this purpose.
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packer
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posted on August 30, 2000 10:09:40 PM new
Before PayPal it was x.com.....then they merged.
I love PayPal, they have always had my checking account number and credit card number. It makes it SO EASY to wire transfer funds to your checking account from the PayPal account(I do it on a regular basis).
Then they ask me to verify that this is REALLY my account......HEY...NO PROBLEM.
All this does is this: If I want to pay for an auction that I won and I DON"T want to use my credit card but would rather use a check.....I can wire transfer money out of my checking account to the auction seller. WHALA..I've saved myself interest fees on the credit card, and deduct it out of my checking account.
Sure beats writing a check and paying 33 cents to mail it and waiting for 2 weeks to get your goodies.
HOW HARD IS THAT???????
All this paranoia over being verified is PARANOIA!
Having a BAD HAIR Moment!! 
[ edited by packer on Aug 30, 2000 10:13 PM ]
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Shoshanah
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posted on August 30, 2000 10:23:50 PM new
Oh! My! You ARE having a bad hair day... Never saw this. It's so cute....May I please "steal" it?
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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jada
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posted on August 30, 2000 11:30:17 PM new
When verification became an issue on Ebay, some buyers and sellers were so strongly opposed to Ebay's plan, they stated they would simply refuse to buy from any seller who displayed either the "Verified seller" icon or any notification that the auction had been listed by a "verified seller".
Of course, on Ebay, the most opposition came from having to provide one's social security number.
Makes me wonder what would happen if some buyers felt that way about Paypal's verification, (refuse to buy from simply because they are verified by PayPal).
[ edited by jada on Aug 30, 2000 11:32 PM ]
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magazine_guy
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posted on August 30, 2000 11:40:02 PM new
Correct- the opposition to eBay's initial verification plan (heck, I can't even recall the name now....) was centered around use of SS#. I wonder if some of the resistance to PayPal's verification is similar- folks who just don't want their PayPal account connected in ANY way to their SS# (which it is when you verify it with your personal checking account).
At any rate, it's not a big deal. It's a good thing, in my view, and it has indeed been hashed out here in previous weeks.
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Spreland
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posted on August 31, 2000 01:18:17 AM new
>If that didn't answer your question then I don't believe this one will either from PayPal's Buyer Protection Guarantee"
You may check the verification status of a Seller on every confirmation page before you Send Money.<<<<
Is there somewhere I can sign up for PayPal's daily policy updates? I don't need the sweepstakes bullsh!t. Just the important stuff, like when they're going to inform buyers that I'm not legit, because I didn't ask for two deposits of 26 cents and 53 cents or I didn't mail two paper clips to the last bidder, or whatever.
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VeryModern
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posted on August 31, 2000 05:55:45 AM new
LOL Spreland - I'm with you!
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vargas
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posted on August 31, 2000 06:47:09 AM new
"I disagree with your opinion that PayPal blew it when they introduced the verification system. I think it's one of the smartest things they've done so far."
From a public relations standpoint, the introduction of account verification was a big misstep. If PayPal had kept the "fund your account from checking" as a separate issue, I would not have had a problem with verification at all. But the two were tied together at the start. It gave cautious consumers pause and caused much unnecessary confusion.
A verification policy is smart. The way PayPal handled its introduction was not.
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jrscharton
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posted on August 31, 2000 10:11:38 AM new
Thanks for clarifying your statement vargas. 
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paypaldamon
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posted on August 31, 2000 10:16:27 AM new
HI Spreland,
There are two account classes, unverified and verified. The notification is there to advise users as to what the account status of the party you are sending money to.
If you send money,the member info screen comes up to advise of account status and what it means to be verified or unverified.
The verification process affords us greater security for conducting transactions because the identity of the end user can be more readily established Verifying does not allow for unilateral access to your bank account(s).
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barkrock
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posted on August 31, 2000 12:25:31 PM new
"I don't have any problem with the verification and fraud protection. I object to PayPal's underhanded approach."
HEAR, HEAR!!!
I couldn't agree more! With all due respect to Damon (who has apparently been most helpful to many folks, and is often astonishingly patient while under attack), I still do NOT understand why Paypal has this apparently desperate need to obtain permission to withdraw money from my bank account!
Does anyone else remember when address verification meant putting in a code received via snail mail? I still have my letter right here. I never followed through, because guess what...that "verification" scheme required giving permission to withdraw from my bank account.
Now we have the new "verification" process, which involves receiving two small deposits and reporting them to Paypal...AND giving permission to withdraw from my bank account.
Now I have no problem WHATSOEVER with either of the verification schemes. I do have a problem - a big one! - with giving blanket permission to withdraw funds from my bank account.
And yes, I know...Damon has reassured us here many times that Paypal does not intend to withdraw money without explicit permission.
BUT...assuming Damon is in fact an official interpreter of Paypal's contract...accidents do happen, despite the best intentions. Our local consumer advocate has publically stated via our local newspaper many times NOT to give such permission to anyone. It seems that even the best of companies tend to blow this automatic deduction business at times, and multitudes of customers have had a terrible jumble made of their finances because of it.
Damon did graciously suggest that Paypal may divorce the two functions; i.e., separate the verification function from the permission-to-withdraw funds. But I don't see it happening.
After several weeks, I finally did get a response from customer service at Paypal which indicated that it doesn not have any intention to separate these two functions.
Given the various schemes Paypal has created to obtain this permission, I don't expect it ever will. And all the claims of "we never would do that" aside, it does look like they want it too badly.
spelling
[ edited by barkrock on Aug 31, 2000 12:30 PM ]
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magazine_guy
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posted on August 31, 2000 01:01:50 PM new
OK- maybe we can put this to rest- WHERE do you think you're giving PayPal blanket authority to withdraw funds from your bank account???????
I did the verification thing, read everything, and there was no such authorization. Just the opposite. PayPal's verification process states that they will NEVER withdraw funds from your bank account without YOUR permission.
Where is this stuff coming from?
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magazine_guy
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posted on August 31, 2000 01:09:45 PM new
From the PayPal User Agreement:
X.com will never make electronic transfers from your bank account without your explicit permission. Furthermore, X.com provides you unlimited protection against unauthorized withdrawals from your bank account.
(PayPal is part of X.com).
So where did this fear come from?
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abacaxi
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posted on August 31, 2000 03:38:01 PM new
Damon -
My MAIN objection is that the wording used SCARES THE HELL out of the bidder. There is a very negative connotation to any word that starts with UN- (after all, that is it's purpose, to negate the meaning
UNverified should be replaced with something less derogatory ... "recipient is not a participant in our verified user program" would do.
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paypaldamon
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posted on August 31, 2000 04:03:31 PM new
Hi abacaxi,
Thanks for the wording suggestion. I will make sure that it is seen.
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Spreland
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posted on August 31, 2000 07:54:18 PM new
abacaxi writes:
>My MAIN objection is that the wording used SCARES THE HELL out of the bidder. There is a very negative connotation to any word that starts with UN- (after all, that is it's purpose, to negate the meaning.<
Which is why PayPal used this wording. They knew it would cause problems. "UnVerified" Does this account exist or not? Do I have the right email address? I don't want to send payment to the wrong party. I better email the seller and ask him to VERIFY that this is the correct email address to send the payment to.
<BR>As if PayPal didn't have the option to just add a "Buyer Protection" logo on the confirm page.
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vargas
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posted on August 31, 2000 09:28:08 PM new
"From the PayPal User Agreement:
X.com will never make electronic transfers from your bank account without your explicit permission. Furthermore, X.com provides you unlimited protection against unauthorized withdrawals from your bank account.
(PayPal is part of X.com).
So where did this fear come from?"
magazine_guy --
The above was not the original wording on the verification page. PayPal changed it after people started raising a fuss.
I did not save the original statement, but it clearly gave PayPal permission to transfer money out of checking accounts.
I declined to verify until that wording was changed.
Verification orginally was tied to what amounted to blanket permission to withdraw funds from our checking accounts. Whether it was intentional or just a case of amateurs writing the page, I don't know.
Perhaps someone else saved the first statement from the verification page. If so, I wish they'd post it so those who did not see it will understand what a massive screw-up this really was on PayPal's part.
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jrscharton
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posted on September 1, 2000 09:18:29 AM new
Regardless of the wording from the original TOU, there was never blanket permission for PayPal/X.com to withdraw funds from the user's bank account(s). I believe the wording of the original TOU was not clear for some users, so PayPal/X.com changed to wording to clarify that.
I never once thought that verifying my bank account gave PayPal/X.com permission to withdraw funds from my account, even with the original TOU.
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bldrdrms
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posted on September 1, 2000 11:00:10 AM new
Thats the TOU today.. will it be the same tomorrow? Will PayPal tell you that is changed?
So far without this forum I would have never known about the verification notice to my former bidders.. Do all the 4 million plus PayPal users read the AW forum?
They change TOU on a whim... beware.
Typo
[ edited by bldrdrms on Sep 1, 2000 11:00 AM ]
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 1, 2000 02:24:40 PM new
Hi,
While this has been a topic before, withdrawals are covered under federal law and harsh penalties would be levied against any company or individual using this for ill gain. We will not withdraw money from any user's bank account without their permission (requesting the transaction).
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jfpnatl
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posted on September 1, 2000 03:09:16 PM new
I verified as soon as the program was started, felt it would give the buyer some sort of feeling of protection, and it never stated giving Paypal permission to transfer funds at all! I don't know where this got started as i would never give access to my account to anyone. The first time i got the verifcation letter it never said anything like that!
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sewnsuzie
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posted on September 1, 2000 09:32:36 PM new
Hi All, I'm hoping someone can help me out with Pay Pal. I've just decided to offer Pay Pal to my customers and while I was registering I noticed they need either a credit card or bank account number. I was wondering if pay pal would send me a check instead of sending the funds to my credit card or bank account. Does anyone know if this is possible? I'd rather have a check than be continuously withdrawing funds from my account to cover shipping, etc. Any help would be appreciated. I don't get on the boards much, so if you could e-mail that would be great. [email protected] Thank you
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spunkysue
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posted on September 1, 2000 09:50:17 PM new
Buyers who pay with PayPal are protected by X.com's Buyer Protection Guarantee. If you purchase an item from a Verified Seller and do not receive your purchased goods, you are entitled to a full refund of the purchase amount. You may check the verification status of a Seller on every confirmation page before you Send Money. The Buyer Protection Guarantee applies whether you pay with a credit card, checking account, or funds in your PayPal acount.
I am a verified seller!
This is what I am going to use on my TOS from now on to encourage my buyers to use PAYPAL because I LOVE IT! I will also start getting a delivery confirmation with every PAYPAL purchase to protect my end of the deal.
If you do not, then what are you trying to hide from?
I recently purchased someting from someone who was "unverifed" and was wondering myself why he wasnt when I sure was.
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magazine_guy
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posted on September 1, 2000 10:27:10 PM new
In fact, when you verify your account, not only is your BUYER protected, but you as a seller are protected, and the account you attach to your PayPal account is protected. All for free. Is this great, or what?
From PP site:
*****
Security is our #1 priority. That's why we provide our members with SafeWebŪ Insurance from Travelers Property Casualty Corp.
Here's what you get:
Protection against unauthorized withdrawals from your account at X.com, including unauthorized withdrawals from any bank account you may have linked to X.com, up to $100,000.
Insurance that is instant and FREE - you don't have to apply for coverage and there is no cost to you.
Assurance that with SafeWeb Insurance and X.com's Security Policy, money left in our system is safe and secure.
**********
So, with the Buyer protection guarantee, the SafeWeb automatic insurance for seller's PP account AND his checking account, what's to complain about?
Get Verified!
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 2, 2000 12:21:21 AM new
paypaldamon, here's the stupidy of paypal's logic: As a seller I don't give two hoots whether a buyer sends their money through your service. If I'm not verified and you notiy the buyer, and the buyer decides to use a MO instead, oh well. That's all I have to say. I've been using paypal nearly from the start, and I don't care much for playing through these hoops to get verified, and I have not even considered about doing so. It's paypal loss, not mine.
"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it."
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uaru
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posted on September 2, 2000 01:16:26 AM new
"As a seller I don't give two hoots whether a buyer sends their money through your service."
Some buyers are going to prefer sellers that offer PayPal with "Fraud Protection" and sellers will be offering links to prove so. Visit you PayPal account look at the links being offered to advertise your verification.
And it's eBay approved!
I keep seeing these posts with the term "jumping through hoops." Has anyone that verified their account thought it a complicated or difficult process?
1. I give them my account number and routing number.
2. They make 2 small deposits. (which I keep)
3. I tell them how much the deposits were.
4. Bingo, I'm verified.
I don't have any worries about PayPal accessing my bank account without my permission. I've said it before and I'll say it again, a post to this forum takes more effort than getting your PayPal account 'verified'.
[ edited by uaru on Sep 2, 2000 04:25 AM ]
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Spreland
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posted on September 2, 2000 09:52:27 PM new
No I didn't find it complicated or difficult and I wouldn't use the expression "jumping through hoops" to describe something that is complicated or difficult. Do you work for PayPal or are you just another unpaid ass licker that needs to get a life?
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uaru
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posted on September 2, 2000 10:02:37 PM new
"Do you work for PayPal or are you just another unpaid ass licker that needs to get a life?"
I don't work for PayPal. If you have a great deal on a life put it up for auction and if I think it really special maybe I'll bid on it.
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