magazine_guy
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posted on September 2, 2000 10:03:33 PM new
Thanks for raising the discussion to a higher level.
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MichelleG
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posted on September 2, 2000 10:03:34 PM new
Spreland
Your comments are insulting to another Community Members and violate the Community Guidelines. I am issuing a formal warning.
Be aware to continue to post in this manner will place your posting privileges in jeopardy.
MichelleG
Moderator
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jrscharton
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posted on September 3, 2000 09:56:48 AM new
Just wanna keep this on top in case somebody out there has "a life" up for auction. I wanna bid on it, too. 
Do moderators work on the weekend?
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 3, 2000 11:33:03 AM new
Damon:
Why doesn't PayPal fix this mess so that we can bury this dead horse? It just drags on and on and on...
Simple fix: Completely seperate the verification process from bank account access. Quick, easy, effective, and PayPal can then start the slow task ahead of regaining the trust of its' users (and potential users. Why drag this out any longer?
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 3, 2000 11:35:40 AM new
Correct me if I am mistaken but I thought the only way Paypal could access your account is if you gave them permission.
You gave them blanket permission when you verified your bank account. Sorry, but the horse is already out of the barn.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 3, 2000 11:41:42 AM new
Yes, the answer is to verify an empty X.com account. That's just what I did. And I electronically transfer all of my PayPal monies directly into a different, "unverified" checking account. X.com never sees a dime of it.
X.com can post a debit against your account at any time, whether there are funds in the account or not. You will have a negative balance that you will have to make up. Banks make charges against empty accounts all the time. And when you verified your account, you gave them blanket permission to do it.
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HJW
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posted on September 3, 2000 12:00:47 PM new
I'm beginning to admire those "community members" whose posting priviledges are in
jeopardy.
Helen
[email protected]
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tegan
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posted on September 3, 2000 12:16:15 PM new
Aren't there other companys that offer the same sevice? I like paypal and it was a snap to get verified but if I was as unhappy as some of you are I would be checking out other options.
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vargas
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posted on September 3, 2000 01:00:34 PM new
"X.com can post a debit against your account at any time, whether there are funds in the account or not. You will have a negative balance that you will have to make up. Banks make charges against empty accounts all the time. And when you verified your account, you gave them blanket permission to do it."
I actually waited to verify until they changed the wording in the user's agreement and on the verification page. And I printed out copies of everything.
Yes, the original wording did give blanket permission for withdrawals.
The new wording, under which I verified, explicitly states:
"X.com will never make electronic transfers from your bank account without your explicit permission. Furthermore, X.com provides you unlimited protection against unauthorized withdrawals from your bank account."
Heaven help X.com if it goes back on that guaranty regarding my account. I'm in a position in the offline world to stir up more sh*t for them than a roomful of Rottweilers.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 3, 2000 01:15:47 PM new
Who said anything about being unhappy with PayPal? I love PayPal. And when they get the problems ironed out I will use them again in a heartbeat. It's hard to beat the 1.9% transaction fee.
That being said, there are still problems with PayPal that are making it hard for many to trust the company with thier finances.
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 3, 2000 01:57:48 PM new
Sorry I haven't read all the posts, so my question may be answered already but today I went into PayPal to get my logos onto Yahoo and found out I am UNVERIFIED only to see the last 4 digits of my bank account that I gave them months ago.
So, what do I need to do? I kept seeing other people who weren't "verified" and was a little worried but now it's me. If they have the last four digits of my bank account right there in front of me, what didn't I do right?
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jrscharton
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posted on September 3, 2000 03:58:05 PM new
Hi millicent,
There's a process that PayPal has to verify your bank account. There should be a link after you first log into your PayPal account on the left-hand side of the screen about verifying your bank account for more info. The process includes PayPal depositing two small amounts into your bank account (which you keep), and you verifying that you received the two small deposits.
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jrscharton
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posted on September 3, 2000 03:59:27 PM new
Yes, the original wording did give blanket permission for withdrawals.
What was the original wording?
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 3, 2000 05:42:13 PM new
JR, I did that right after street verification. And for months it said I am a "verified" member. Today I go in and lit up in blue is NOT VERIFIED.
I looked. They have my bank account number. I just don't understand this and if it continues I'll become just as wary as others have. Perhaps even drop them.
They stated in an email last week to me that bank account number was for random deposits.
So, I'm still confused.
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dannkim
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posted on September 3, 2000 08:17:31 PM new
Ok, I am not verified, I still have a problem with the part about being able to withdraw funds from my account. I don't want them to and will never authorize them to do, thats why I have credit card there.
My main question now is, these new logos/ banners what ever you want to call them. They say they are ebay approved, but they are not the appropriate size for ebay auctions. So whats the deal? I can't chance having an auction ended because the banner is too big. Ebay clearly states that they can be only 88x33 pixels, and the new ones are like 250X50, definately too big.
Did I miss something and is Ebay really gonna allow this, or is PP just assuming that Ebay will? I don't know if Ebay will since PP is a direct compet. of Billpoint.
If someone knows please post or email me at [email protected]
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 4, 2000 07:16:37 AM new
An update. We did the verification process several weeks ago. We've been checking our online bank and have yet to see their PENNIES show up in the account. We just did it again, giving them one more chance. So I go UNVERIFIED again. .What does one have to do to be PayPal verified?
They asked for 4 days maximum to make the deposit. I will check my bank account next Saturday. If it is not there, I'm at a loss because how can I close my paypal account when they OWE ME money? I would advise everyone to check this out. Apparently PayPal does things a bit differently than they state.
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vargas
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posted on September 4, 2000 07:44:46 AM new
"Yes, the original wording did give blanket permission for withdrawals."
"What was the original wording?"
jrscharton-
I didn't save the original language. I wish I had. Perhaps someone else did.
However, PayPal still is tying verification and the ability to fund your PayPal account from your bank account. Some of us don't want to do this.
Here's part of an e-mail I received from PayPal today, for a bank account I decline to verify...
"To add funds to your PayPal account from this bank account, you need to verify these deposit amounts by entering them on the PayPal web site at http://xxxxxxx. You may choose to check your bank statement online, through your regular mailed statement, or by calling your bank."
Funny, the e-mail never mentions the benefits of being verified as a buyer or seller.
You see, I NEVER want to be able to add funds to my PayPal account from this bank account. (I gave them my credit card number for that.)
I will continue to decline to verify this bank account as long as the two issues are linked (i.e. if if verify, I can fund my PayPal account from this bank account).
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magazine_guy
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posted on September 4, 2000 09:09:02 AM new
vergas:
If you don't wanna fund your PayPal account from your checking, don't. PayPal isn't forcing you to do so. The "verify" scheme doesn't require you to fund anything from your checking.
And if you don't wanna become verified, don't. But I really think this is all paranoia.
millicent-roberts: The verify process worked easily for me and (apparently) hundreds of thousands of other PayPal users. Is it possible you got the routing number or account number wrong?
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vargas
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posted on September 4, 2000 09:48:07 AM new
magazine_guy
Actually, I AM verified... with another checking account. The account that's unverified is the one I transfer my money into.
The "paranoia" is caused by PayPal's insistance on linking the two issues; verification and the ability to move money from your checking account.
Some people don't want to have anything to do with this funding option. Other people don't understand why the first group hesitates.
I'm just explaining WHY. Maybe PayPal will get the message and change the wording of its e-mails... just like PayPal changed the message on the verification screen and the wording in the TOS. The current wording is confusing to people and raises questions and concerns in the minds of careful consumers, whether those concerns are valid or not.
There's nothing wrong with being a careful consumer!
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kerryann
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posted on September 4, 2000 10:03:55 AM new
I'm wondering why PayPal's TOU says that they will never withdraw money from your account without your permission. Doesn't that in itself tell you that they have the ability to do so but won't?
If I posted on this board, "Don't worry eBay seller, I won't withdraw money from your bank account without asking first," I would expct the response to be laughter since I have no power to do that.
PayPal's statement about them not withdrawing seems to imply that they can but won't. I think that's what bothers those that are apprehensive about being verified.
Not Kerryann on eBay
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magazine_guy
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posted on September 4, 2000 10:29:27 AM new
PayPal has your checking account routing number and account number. No big deal. So does any perons you've ever written a check to. So does every bank that has ever cashed that check. So do most of the eBay buyers who send you THEIR check, because your bank puts your account number on the back of THAT check when it is processed.
Bottom line- you checking account number isn't secret. You give it to strangers every week.
So PayPal implemented this verify thing, involving a checking account verification. Some folks were concerned about whether PayPal might withdraw funds from their checking account without authorization (perhaps in the case of charge backs, or for other reasons). So PayPal clarifies by stating very clearly, that they will NEVER withdraw funds from your checking account without your EXPLICIT permission.
And now folks are concerned because they made that clarification? That it somehow implies that they might do so?
PayPal's done a good thing here. They provide a great service. Their implemention of the "not a verified user" thing was clumsy. But the verification thing will likely work to the advantage of buyers and sellers by increasing confidence in transactions, while protecting both buyers and sellers.
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 4, 2000 11:19:42 AM new
I know my router number is correct. I've transferred funds to it. I was verified. Now I'm not. I received an email from PayPal a couple of weeks ago stating that they would "randomly make deposits of .01-.99". So I pulled all my information up and looked at every transaction in the last 5 weeks and they have NOT done one random whatever with my bank. I have before me a screen for every transaction made to and from my bank and there is no PAYPAL activity. I do not like this and have told them this.
It still says in bold that I am UNVERIFIED.
So I emailed. They'll get back to me in 4 days. Fine. Thinking about just shutting down the entire account because of their inability to do what they say they will do.
It's called NOT trustworthy anymore.
I have even been leary of others who were unverified. Now that I'm one of them, I dont' feel so alone!
[ edited by millicent_roberts on Sep 4, 2000 11:21 AM ]
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 4, 2000 12:58:39 PM new
Hi millicent roberts,
I am not in this weekend but I can look at it if you forward your information to me at [email protected]. Please include your account email address.
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 4, 2000 01:01:29 PM new
Hi kerryann,
The statement was placed there because it was not clear in the TOU. Withdrawals are federally regulated and we do not have the right to withdraw funds without user permission nor would we.
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 4, 2000 01:44:09 PM new
[email protected]: CYE
Not millicent_roberts on ebay or paypal.
[ edited by millicent_roberts on Sep 4, 2000 01:46 PM ]
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comic123
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posted on September 4, 2000 04:11:53 PM new
I wasn't one of the first users to be verified by Paypal but after a few weeks, I finally verified myself. I never had any problems before I was verified & never had a problem since.
Yes there is a logo now for verified users. Never had the time to use it. Too many logos on my auctions & pretty soon I will feel like a tennis player with too many sponsors. Just get with the program man, verify & get on with better things to do.
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guyuellas
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posted on September 4, 2000 05:30:09 PM new
They don't send it to the customers it's there when we put in the person's email address. If you have a checking account with them all you have to do is click verify me or whatever it's called and they'll send 2 small amounts to your checking account under a dollar . You find out from your bank what it is than go to paypal and put it in and click and you are verified.
THE PROGRAM THEY ARE USING does not recognized previous forms of accounts we have there.
Not a big deal just do the above it's that simple.
It's better to be safe than sorry.
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millicent_roberts
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posted on September 5, 2000 06:29:32 AM new
Ah yeah. That's what WE thought. I've always had a checking account there. There have been NO "random or any other" amounts deposited into my bank by them.
That's what this is about. Not being called names simply because I may not trust someone with MY money.
Thanks anyway.
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hopefulli
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posted on September 5, 2000 08:45:02 AM new
I decided to verify but I did have concerns. Simply verifying identify is not verifying the honesty or integrity of a seller so Paypal's buyer's guarantee would be a big risk if Paypal did not have some way of recovering any refunds it had to make. While I would have no sympathy for a dishonest seller who had his account tapped for a chargeback, there could be legitimate situations settled in the buyer's favor.
So could Paypal just clarify what their procedure would be when they have to make a refund and are denied explicit permission to withdraw funds to reimburse themselves?
Do they go through the proper collection channels for the amount involved, freeze that amount in your account, freeze your account holding any uninvolved funds hostage, suspend or cancel the account or what?
I am not trying to be combative, I really want to know.
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 5, 2000 10:05:14 AM new
HI Hopefulli,
The charge back, if one happened, would not be taken from a bank account. The TOU state the conditions under which money would be taken or collected. Federal law regulates bank withdrawals and we would not take money from a bank account without user permission.
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