posted on September 5, 2000 10:12:47 AM new
Hi abingdoncomputers,
Can you show me where blanket permission is granted for withdrawals in the terms of use? Under no circumstance would we withdraw from a member's bank account without their initiating a transaction instructing us to do so.
posted on September 5, 2000 10:12:53 AM new
Simply don't give them a bank account. It doesn't stop and hasn't hasn't slowed down anyone from using pay pal to pay me. I don't object to having pay pal have my account but I do fear a hacker getting loads of bank account and wreaking havoc so they dont and won't have my account but it all seems pretty harmless to me.
posted on September 5, 2000 11:42:03 AM new
Being very concerned about the possibility that by becoming verified I was also giving Paypal a blanket permission to debit my bank account (although they currently state they will not make a debit without explicit permission), I called my bank and asked a few questions.
I was told the bank will debit my account by electronic transfer whenever someone makes that request. My bank does not need anything on file from me that gives permission for this. All it requires is for the person (company) requesting the debit to say they have my permission on file...and my bank will accept their word for it.
It is up to me to review my monthly statement to verify the debit was in fact one I approved of. If I didn't approve it then I have to contact the bank and they will reverse the debit by the same method it was originally done.
As long i did not give any permission, blanket or a particular debit specific one, there isn't a problem. The problem arises when I did give a blanket permission but not a particular debit specific permission (paypal's "explicit" permission). Because now the other party can show proof that I did give permission and the permission was not withdrawn.
I agree with the person who said the wording on the verification page implies that there is a blanket permission being given but that paypal will neve withdraw without explicit permission. This gives me pause for thought.
The reason for my trepidation is that the TOS can be changed at any time paypal desires...and it can even be retroactive, as we have seen with the new buyers protection plan. Plus, the TOS currently states that paypal can recover any costs to them on a regular credit card chargeback (not the limited buyers protection) from the seller (me). So if a buyer does a chargeback because the item was not as represented and the CC company agrees to the chargeback to the merchant account invoved (paypal since they are the merchant account that will be chargedback), paypal can come back to me to get the money. And I already agreed to that by agreeing to tha TOS (which is an implied agreement by me since I have an open paypal account).
Paypal could theoretically claim I have given permission by opening an account with them and because I gave a blanket permission in getting verified..since verification also gives me the right to fund my paypal account with debits from my bank account.
There is an easy way to correct this and to give those of us who are uncomfortable with this a better feeling of security. All paypal has to do is put a box on the verification page that we can check that says "This verification does not allow the user to fund his/her paypal account through debits from the account being verified".
Magazine_guy...the fact that anyone can get my account number by looking at my check is a dubious argument at best. Just because someone has my number doesn't mean they can withdraw funds. If they present a check the bank is under an obligation to check the signature on the check with my signature on file. The same if someone tries to withdraw using a withdrawal slip.
The average recipient of my checks are unlikely to attempt to debit my account via an electronic transfer, or other methods that don't require my signature. And those methods do require that the debit be accompanied by a statement from the person attempting the debit that they have my permission on file. Which, of course, is where my hang-up is with paypal. I think they will have my permission on file if I verify.
posted on September 5, 2000 12:29:12 PM new
Uaru...as a woman I am allowed to change my mind (it's one of the few perks we females have)
I have not been verified yet, and will not until this is all cleared up. But, being a practical business person, I decided after the initial heat of the moment to take a wait and see attitude as Damon seemed to be indicating that paypal was willing to listen to the customers and would adjust this whole question based on input.
posted on September 5, 2000 12:40:58 PM new
[i]Hi abingdoncomputers,
Can you show me where blanket permission is granted for withdrawals in the terms of use? Under no circumstance would we withdraw from a member's bank account without their initiating a transaction instructing us to do so.[/i]
No Damon, I can't. The wording was changed since I verified my accounts. But it was in there, even if it was open to interpretation. And PayPal can afford to pay a lot more lawyers to support their interpretation of the TOU than most users.
posted on September 5, 2000 12:49:29 PM new"as a woman I am allowed to change my mind"
My wife abuses that privilege.
"So here I sit, not verified"
I have a BillPoint account also, there is no if ands or buts about the ability of eBay/BillPoint to withdraw from that, they spelled that out at the beginning, they even pointed out that even if you terminate your BillPoint account, their ability to recover funds would remain in effect. With all that said and done, PayPal is saying they won't access funds without your permission in their TOU, so even in the worst case senario you described (which I don't see happening myself) how is it any different that the other BillPoint system that you approve of?
posted on September 5, 2000 12:53:40 PM new
Can't payal just call my bank like a normal operation and verify whatever they need to know instead of putting me through all this hassle? But like I said, the bidders won't know I'm not verified until after the auction so my sales won't be hurt, and they can choose to send a money order instead. I don't lose anything by being unverified.
(it's one of the few perks we females have)
