posted on August 17, 2005 06:56:27 AM newSo which of the two will dissenters follow?
Neither, as they aren't the only options. Patriotic dissenters will work for changes they want to see, and continue to express their beliefs through the right to vote. This is and has always been the American way. Those who wish to leave will find a way to, but they're a tiny minority, who probably squawked a lot but never voted anyhow. For those who support the current administration to suggest that dissenters be deported is, to me, extremely UN-patriotic, and indicates fear of the expression of any opposing viewpoints.
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y salió trasquilado...
posted on August 17, 2005 06:59:37 AM new
Helen, I wonder how it served the "Liberal" mainstream media's purposes in keeping those reports out of the public eye?
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y salió trasquilado...
posted on August 17, 2005 07:37:27 AM new
There is no "Liberal" mainstream media. Today's media serves the president who wants such evidence of his duplicity suppressed.
posted on August 17, 2005 08:04:29 AM new
Here's the list with source for the whiney babies who use that as an excuse for not admitting they're fascists.
LindTwelveK, please point out anything you don't agree with
Can't, can you?
Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism
Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine -- a journal of humanist thought. Dr. Britt
studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14
things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is titled 'Fascism Anyone?', by Lawrence Britt, and appears in Free
Inquiry's Spring 2003 issue on page 20.
The 14 characteristics are:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that
human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need". The people tend to 'look the other way' or even approve of torture, summary executions,
assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -- The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived
common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military -- Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding,
and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism -- The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are
made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6. Controlled Mass Media -- Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by
government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security -- Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -- Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public
opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the
government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected -- The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power,
creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated
entirely or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon
for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the
arts.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing
to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in
fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to
government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for
national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections -- Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or
even the assassination of) opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the
media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
[see http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm for complete text of article.]
posted on August 17, 2005 08:09:31 AM new
REMEMBER LindaTwelveK, you poor old thing when you couldn't find the source of my post and there ! RIGHT AT THE TOP were the author's names, newpaper, the PAGE the article was on and the DATE ...and YOU COULDN'T SEE IT because you're either incredibly stupid, senile, unable to read, or always need SOME excuse not to answer a postOR all of the above
posted on August 17, 2005 08:37:55 AM new
profe, I've always had trouble believing that true patriots are what they claim when the have two different countries they either live in or love.
If you're willing....would you call yourself a patriot to the USA when you also have dual citizenship to Mexico?
Patriotic dissenters will work for changes they want to see.....
If there were a war or just a major disagreement with which country would you pledge your allegiance to? Mexico or America....IF they weren't both on the same side.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 17, 2005 08:41 AM ]
posted on August 17, 2005 08:44:34 AM new
helen you lower yourself again and again by playing in the mud with Linda Blair.
You should know, more than most here, that when one pulls up something it is OFTEN on hundreds of sites....and who could guess which one of those was the one being used by Linda Blair to make false accusations about the republicans here. NO ONE. It would be anyone's guess.
But being AFRAID to note what site it comes from is being a coward.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 17, 2005 08:49:53 AM new
[see http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm for complete text of article.]
LindaTwelveK, There's the source and you STILL just can't admit that you agree with every point
Never answering a post really makes you look like a coward.
""profe, I've always had trouble believing that true patriots are what they claim when the have two different countries they either live in or love.""
Linda, If the same, identical information can be found on "hundreds of sites", what difference does it make which site Mingo used. Maybe she copied my post of this information which could be found on this site.
Focus on the TOPIC. If you are too dumb to reply then STFU.
posted on August 17, 2005 09:05:40 AM new
Whoa Linda! C'mon now, that was distasteful to say the least..your post to Profe, questioning his loyalties to his American citizenship and questioning his sincerity because he holds duel citizenship.. low blow and not worthy of a reply from the Profe..imo
posted on August 17, 2005 09:12:29 AM newprofe, I've always had trouble believing that true patriots are what they claim when the have two different countries they either live in or love.
Wow, blinded by so much nationalism and suffering from so much xenophobia that a person loses touch with their own self and their own personal identity....... willing to become just one of the masses who toes the party line instead of proudly standing as an individual. Sad.
posted on August 17, 2005 09:41:46 AM newThere is no "Liberal" mainstream media. Today's media serves the president who wants such evidence of his duplicity suppressed.
What a load of bovine defication, but if that feeds your beliefs/ego Helen, chow down.
"Try this experiment for yourselves. Pick any talking head show. Choose any MSM print outlet; the New York Times will do nicely, thank you. Take whatever apparent story they’re talking about, and boil it down like Vermont maple syrup in the fall. When you reduce the story to its essence, beneath the level of the apparent facts of the day, see whether any political story in the MSM has any core message other than the ''Caution!...''?
Bias is usually subtle. Pay attention to the verbs. I read a story right after the election on the thousands of state legislative races. The article consistently referred to seats ''won'' by Democrats, but seats ''claimed'' by Republicans. Is it any surprise that the reporters writing that were primarily Democrats? Or, pay attention to the adjectives. Others have researched to a fare-thee-well the respective use of ''left-wing'' and ''right-wing.'' Republicans often get the second label; Democrats seldom get the first one.
Are there more right-wingers than left-wingers in American politics? Check out the websites of the Congressional Black Caucus, or of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, or of almost any union (but especially the National Education Association). See if you conclude that the left wing is alive and well. Its label disappears because the MSM reporters don’t perceive the left as being ''left-wing.''
When the MSM had a monopoly, facts they chose not to report simply did not exist. The monopoly has ended. Facts get reported in the alternative media. The MSM no longer controls the agenda; it can only embarrass itself by pretending that it still does.
TV requires, of course, more than just words. There has to be something to point a camera at, the apparently live and sentient pundits sitting in their chairs. But is that any more than window dressing? Does that make the content of the political shows any more substantial than that mechanical voice in the airport?
The Mainstream Media are dying by degrees in the quarterly Arbitron reports on audience shares. The MSM is dying because the practitioners insist on producing vacuous bias in their political coverage. This task will be unsettling, but I recommend it. Read the Mainstream Media, listen to them, watch them with more care than they think ''dumb'' Americans can bring to the task. See if you reach the same conclusion, that you’re hearing repetitive, mechanical voices from the MSM.
When the voices are clearly mechanical, they may be annoying but they seem less threatening. The true menace comes from voices which present the illusion of being real. Think of Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, Tom Brokaw, and the Hal 9000. Don’t the first three need the same cure as Hal got in the movie, ''2001''? Don’t they need to be deprogrammed, back to a time before they learned to lie, or worse, learned to believe their own lies?
Don’t they all need to go back to Urbana, Illinois, in 1992? Shouldn’t they all be asked to sing us a song before they fall silent? ''Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer true ....''
"Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." --Robert E. Lee
posted on August 17, 2005 10:06:08 AM new
maggie, What so now it's inappropriate to ask questions around here?
I don't think so. You've got crowfarm/mg/LB going around with helen call people on the right fascists....but that didn't get a reaction from you. Any bias on your part?
The profe mentioned 'patriots' who are working for change. Exactly WHAT change? Change to be more like another county? Who knows what country those who hold duel citizenship support OVER ours?
And I'm not singling out our profe either. Same would apply to anyone with dual citizenship. imo, anyone who will NOT pledge their their FULL and complete allegiance
to American is not one I'D consider a 'patriot'.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 17, 2005 10:10:14 AM new
Taking up CUSSING and BOSSING others around AGAIN, helen?
---
helenjw - posted on August 17, 2005 08:56:02 AM
Linda, If the same, identical information can be found on "hundreds of sites", what difference does it make which site Mingo used. Maybe she copied my post of this information which could be found on this site.
Focus on the TOPIC. If you are too dumb to reply then STFU.
[ edited by Helenjw on Aug 17, 2005 08:57 AM ]
You were the one who couldn't grasp the info. on my link about the NYT. And other posts also.
And you wouldn't be trying to 'shut up' opposing opinions now would you, helen? How un-American you are. Going against everything our Constitution stands for.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 17, 2005 10:14 AM ]
posted on August 17, 2005 10:20:26 AM new
Then we have another one who CLAIMS to have duel citizenship, kaira.
willing to become just one of the masses who toes the party line instead of proudly standing as an individual. Sad.
Who again makes a post proving she doesn't know what she's talking about...as usual.
Not toeing the PARTY line.....supporting MY country above all others. Giving MY pledge to MY [B]COUNTRY not a party[/b].
Clue in kiara....there are other parties, like the democratic one, where their members would and DO only pledge their allegiance to America....and no other country too. It's not a republican vs democrat issue.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 17, 2005 10:43:21 AM new
toe the party line = follow Bush always without question and to the point of frenzy, even chanting his name for months on end continuously at the end of each post, questioning all other individuals who remain free-thinking and looking upon them with suspicion.
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
posted on August 17, 2005 10:45:40 AM new
I agree. For me it's because it wouldn't be fair to all the other families who also had their chance to speak with him and might also want 'another' talk. It could go on forever....and it's not going to bring her son back.
Heck if every anti-war person in the US wanted to have time alone with the President to discuss disagreement with his policies....he'd never get anything done.
It's a totally unreasonable request, imo.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 17, 2005 10:48:09 AM new I have more respect for this President in ignoring this woman than to go out and speak to her.
By ignoring "this woman" Bush indirectly assisted her in making the point that he is an incompetent president who considers his administration unaccountable to the American public. How can you have respect for that????
posted on August 17, 2005 10:53:22 AM new
What you've written is very true bear.
And the part that says:
When the MSM had a monopoly, facts they chose not to report simply did not exist.
[WHICH STILL GOES ON IN THE NYT]
The monopoly has ended. Facts get reported in the alternative media. The MSM no longer controls the agenda; it can only embarrass itself by pretending that it still does.
Yes, the NEW Media/alternative media is here to stay. That's why the OLD MEDIA program ratings and subscription ratings
are falling. There are other choices to get our information from.
edited to add:
Even old Walter Cronkite finally admitted after he retired that approx. 98% of journalists are liberals.
Wouldn't admit to being un-biased when he was 'preaching', or I mean speaking for the liberal agenda though. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 17, 2005 10:57 AM ]
posted on August 17, 2005 11:02:36 AM new
Only point that I see she made was how uncaring and selfish person she actually is. Has disgraced her son's memory and what he did.
So why should the President vilify that by speaking to someone who is so grieved that they are deranged? I wouldn't speak to her either.
posted on August 17, 2005 11:25:33 AM new
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
OK, here's ANOTHER question LindaTwelveK won't answer..
She says, " false accusations about the republicans here. "
posted on August 17, 2005 11:36:04 AM new
How many of the far left here/reg. liberals/dems, whether with dual citizenship or not.....
...would be willing to put your hand on your heart and say our National Pledge of Allegiance to this country of ours? Any takers who are willing to say "YES, I would", and I'd mean it too?
Let's see you step up to the plate and inform all of us whether you would pledge your allegiance to ONLY America.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 17, 2005 12:22 PM ] again to add more leftie names.
posted on August 17, 2005 11:48:22 AM newI Pledge Alligance to the flag of the United States of America....
[i]I Promise to be faithful and true (Promise my loyalty)to the flag to the emblem that stands for and represents of the United Statesall 50 states, each of them individual, and individually represented on the flag of America yet formed into a UNION of one Nation.
and to the Republic
And I also pledge my loyalty to the Government that is itself a Republic, a form of government where the PEOPLE are sovereign,
for which it stands, this government also being represented by the Flag to which I promise loyalty.
one Nation under God,
These 50 individual states are united as a single Republic under the Divine providence of God, "our most powerful resource" (according to the words of President Eisenhower)
Indivisible,
and can not be separated. (This part of the original version of the pledge was written just 50 years after the beginning of the Civil War and demonstrates the unity sought in the years after that divisive period in our history)
with Liberty
The people of this Nation being afforded the freedom to pursue "life, liberty, and happiness",
and Justice
And each person entitled to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper law and principle,
for All.
And these principles afforded to EVERY AMERICAN, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, or any other criteria. Just as the flag represents 50 individual states that can not be divided or separated, this Nation represents millions of people who can not be separated or divided.
Thus it is that when you Pledge Allegiance to the United States Flag, You:
*Promise your loyalty to the Flag itself.
*Promise your loyalty to your own and the other 49 States.
*Promise your loyalty to the Government that unites us all,
Recognizing that we are ONE Nation under God,
That we can not or should not be divided or alone,
And understanding the right to Liberty and Justice belongs to ALL of us.
Of course I believe in allegiance to American values such as unity, liberty, justice and freedom, including freedom of religion.. But before answering your question in the affirmative, I want to point out to you that my pledge is not the same as your pledge. My pledge is to the people of this country whereas your pledge represents an unqualified and unquestioning loyalty to the Bush administration.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~