posted on August 19, 2005 12:21:42 AM new
I do not agree with Brook's premise that Sheehan has been endorsed as a spokesperson for the Democratic party.
Many feel Sheehan deserves to be heard among which are some Democrats, some Republicans, as well as Independents.
It is nice however that LindaK shows concern over the core values of Democratic views and the perception thereof.
Perhaps there is an opening on some Democratic steering committee she (LindaK) could fill.
[ edited by davebraun on Aug 19, 2005 12:26 AM ]
posted on August 19, 2005 09:47:11 AM new
Dave said, "Perhaps there is an opening on some Democratic steering committee she (LindaK) could fill". Hey Dave that's funny but a nightmarish thought at the same time LOL. I don't know whether to laugh or cringe I guess a lot of each is in order.
I have laughed a lot at Linda_K's posts and also cringed at most of her posts but she never made me laugh and cringe at the same time like you just did. Keep up you good work.
posted on August 19, 2005 10:19:11 AM new
Linda, didn't the land Israel is giving up first belong to the Palestinians?
I guess so. But the Palestinians are not going to be happy until all of Israel is theirs
Already they are demanding more including East Jerusalem.
Israel can give them 'back' all they can, but they will never stop the suicide bombings against Israel until Israel just pulls up all stakes and gives everything to them, which ain't going to happen, so the battles will go on.
I hope the Israeli govt plows over all homes and business in Gaza, that the Israeli people built.
posted on August 19, 2005 10:42:06 AM new
I do too, NearTheSea, I do too.
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But I have noticed that not one dem/liberal/wacko here has been able to enlighten me on my op question: Why are most from the democratic party so against Israel and supportive of the Palestinians? Their party appears to me to support the Arab side almost 100%....and I've always wondered why that is. From so much that I've read...they're against the U.S. supporting the Israel government for decades....and I don't understand why that is.
But...so far ... none have been willing to say why.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 10:48:27 AM newI do not agree with Brook's premise that Sheehan has been endorsed as a spokesperson for the Democratic party.
LOL....well gee, I wonder why moveon.org, gore [who supports/sides with moveon.org], kerry etc. are siding with her then. Do they not represent the liberal [imo, wacko] side of the democratic party? Sure they do. Are not most of our own liberals here agreeing with her political statements too? yes, they are.
Or maybe you just think she's being used for the political gain all these 'supporters' are giving her...but the dem party really isn't lovin' it to death.
All kinds of democratic supporters have fallen in line with her statements....don't kid yourself. They're just part of the 'divided' dem. party....they're the even 'further left' side of the party.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 10:58:04 AM new
Maybe this should be in another thread.
Israel became a nation in 49? And thereafter retained Gaza and the west bank in the 6 day war, right?
The Israeli people since has made their small nation fruitful with a good economy, and of course had to have a super military, where women besides men are required to serve in the military when they are 18. That is because of the pop., they do need a good military.
This plan of giving back gaza and the west bank is great (for the Palastinians) that is if the PLO and the palestinians will agree to that, but I do not see that happening, like I said they will not be placated unless they have the whole of Israel.
Ok do I have that about right?
I hope so too Linda, that those homes are bulldozed down. My brother was telling me that there was a very nice home and the owners knocked it down, when the order to vacate was given.
posted on August 19, 2005 11:05:45 AM new
Ok, I found it, they are demolishing all structures
KEREM ATZMONA, Gaza Strip, Aug 18 (Reuters) - Israel started demolishing evacuated settler dwellings in the Gaza Strip's main settlement bloc on Thursday, the Defence Ministry said.
Cranes pulled apart pre-fabricated buildings at the small settlement of Kerem Atzmona, the first homes to be taken down in the Gush Katif bloc.
"It is not easy to do this. We hope to continue with the process of destroying structures. How long it will take depends on various factors, including the end of the evacuation," said Levi Golan of the Defence Ministry.
Israel has said all buildings will be demolished before the land is handed over to the Palestinians.
posted on August 19, 2005 11:15:09 AM new
::But I have noticed that not one dem/liberal/wacko here has been able to enlighten me on my op question: Why are most from the democratic party so against Israel and supportive of the Palestinians?::
Well then you should back up and read thru this thread again Linda because I gave an answer to that question immediately after it was asked. Just because you may not like the answer does not mean that it was not offered.
BTW - Why is it that you complain about the name calling of others in a thread that has remained
Near - the original plan was not to leave them and there was ctually coverage a month or so ago of families that were leaving ealier, cleaning their homes and leaving notes of welcome to the incoming families. Recenetly however there was an agreement between the Palestinians and Isrealis that the homes would be razed and the grounds cleared. Not only did many Isreali families not want palestinians living in the homes that they built but Palestinian government felt that the homes were really of little use in dealing with their main issues of overcrowding and they plan to build high rise apartment complexes in the areas.
::that is if the PLO and the palestinians will agree to that::
The PLO is pretty much dead.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 19, 2005 11:22 AM ]
posted on August 19, 2005 11:19:56 AM new
::I do not agree with Brook's premise that Sheehan has been endorsed as a spokesperson for the Democratic party.
LOL....well gee, I wonder why moveon.org, gore [who supports/sides with moveon.org], kerry etc. are siding with her then.::
Really Linda? Do you honestly wonder that? Because if you do I have start worrying about the logic in you thought process. Do you honestly believe that just because members of a party agree on a single issue with an individual that that individual automatically because the spokeperson for the political party as a whole?
Just so that I can clear this up a bit for you... as much as you and whatever far right logic optional friends that think along the same lines as yourself may believe... She is not a spokesperson for the democratic party.
She is nothing more than a heartbroken mother that has gotten way too much attention from a press corp with nothing better to talk about.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
okay fenix - I'll go back and re-read it again. I just remember you answering with a question to me. Didn't take it as an explanation of why you side with the Arabs over Israel on almost every issue we've discussed here. You seemed to me to be saying they both were pretty much equal in fault. But with only one reply - that doesn't give much of an overall perspective about why MOST dems are that way - least not to me.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 11:31:47 AM new
::that doesn't give much of an overall perspective about why MOST dems are that way - least not to me.::
I realize that Linda. I know that the answer that you wanted is "We hate them because Bush likes them" but that's not the truth. The truth is the answer that you were given but did not like enough to accept.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 11:34:57 AM new
Is the PLO really dead.
After the Israelis were leaving (and forced to leave) Gaza, there was a show of armed Palestinians, marching, for a show of 'victory' or whatever. Is this the new Palestinian Army then?
posted on August 19, 2005 11:40:14 AM new
Okay...here's what you asked and said.
Linda - Are you asking why Democrats do not find Isreal blameless or if they believe that the Iraq invasion was "a neo-conservative plot to benefit Israel". ?
No that wasn't what I was asking....I think my question was pretty easy to understand.
As for the latter...you know, we have heard from many a voice from many different backgrounds, cultures and philosophies on this board in the past two and half years, but not once have I heard that one.
Well....I know I'VE personally asked it more than a few times....never have received an answer.
Personally I'm not a big fan the Bush administration, Neon-conservatives,
THAT's always been very clear.
... or Isreal and even I have a hard time not shaking my head at that one[/i].
From my view....every post you've ever made on any subject that envolves Israel/the war/etc. you have always sided with the Arabs...against Israel. I have not read you ever defending what Israel is doing against the Arabs to protect themselves being favorable to Israel.
As for why many democrats side with Palestine in the conflict...it's because Isreal plays on historical guilt to get away with murder. If any other country pulled some of the stunts Isreal has pulled over the years we would be all over them but as long as it's Isreal we just wag our finger and deny them sprinkles on their dessert.
See...there's a good example of just what I mean...it's always blame Israel.
It's only natural that when you have two goups that both bahaving badly but only one ever catches hell that eventually people are going to start feeling for them.
Not to me. I can clearly see that Israel has been more willing to work out peace agreements for decades. I can easily see that they want to live in peace and that the Arabs have been the ones keeping the violence/killings/murders going. And I can also clearly see that when peace is just around the corner [as it has been more than once when a peace agreement is oh-so-close] that the Arabs will start something that causes it all to fall apart.
THEN the dems appear to think Israel is at fault for going after the homes, terrorists, etc who have just blown up a bomb in their streets, killing more of their innocent people. NOT going after Israel military...innocent Israeli's.
So...yes, you didn't speak you mind, once again, blaming Israel. Just as I said. I STILL don't understand why? Are you saying you side with the Arabs because they've been the 'under-dogs' for decades? Is that what you meant when you said you explained it?
Just trying to be clear here.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 11:40:19 AM new
Well, if they were dressed in black, they were Hamas. If they were just people in street clothes, they were primarily just Palestinian citizens. Everyone in that area is armed. The Isreali government collected all of the arms from their home owners in the region prior to the clearing out of the area in order to avoid possible issues of citizens taking arms against their police and military when it came time to clear people out.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 11:45:13 AM newShe is nothing more than a heartbroken mother that has gotten way too much attention from a press corp with nothing better to talk about.
That would be true, imo, IF there weren't so many democratics, including the party's leaders, using her to further their own agenda. She's NOT just a grieving mom....she's gone WAY passed that stage.
------------------
And I also disagree on the PLO being 'dead'. LOL
They're just as alive and well as are the socialists and communist's in our country. It's a perception the left wants changed....so they pretend the party's and, in this case, the PLO no longer has support. They sure do.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 11:51:48 AM new
[i]I realize that Linda. I know that the answer that you wanted is "We hate them because Bush likes them" but that's not the truth. The truth is the answer that you were given but did not like enough to accept[/].
Nope....wrong....wrong...wrong. Again this has absolutely NOTHING to do with what this administration's policy is.
The FACT is the U.S. has always financially supported Israel....under presidents from BOTH SIDES. This is NOT a bush vs dem thinking at all. It's a National policy issue. Are you under the impression that the US stopped supporting Israel financially under the clinton administration, under the carter administration?
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 11:53:59 AM new
Linda - I don't know what to tell you. As I said. I gave you the answer. You just don't like it.
I said exactly what I meant.
Isreal plays on historical guilt to get away with murder and the world consistently holds them blameless. I'm sorry but you are simply not going to convince me that with a military and intelligence community as well trained and advanced as the Isrealis are that it is neccessary to blow up an entire apartment building to get a single man who may or may not be there. You are to going to convince tat there is ever justification for the unannounced destruction of a home in another territory simply because you think it is too close to a fence.
I think right now is an amazing time in the history of this conflict and it's up to both sides to make things work. Leadership on both sides needs to work very hard to continue the strides made with this clear out. Isreal needs to find some way to avoid incidents like the one with the bus driver day before yesterday and the Palestinian government needs to find a way to keep Hamas in line and away from retribution.
I think what you get wrong is that I hate Isreal. I am just sick and tired of everyone treating Isreal as if it is without blame.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 11:57:57 AM new
NO linda - I am aware that Isreal has been fully supported by all administrations (although god only knows why because it's not as if Isreal is a nation without financial resources). It just seems to me that since you didn't want a real answer you might want that was much simpler and fit into your comfort zone.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 19, 2005 11:58 AM ]
posted on August 19, 2005 12:03:08 PM new
fenix - I have never thought of trying to change your position, only to better understand it. The reasoning behind how you've taken sides....and why you did. Nothing more. I've never seen anyone on these boards change their strongly held positions...and I have no expectations of 'miracles' happening here.
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DBL - Same goes for me....[what KD said about you staying around]....we each add a different dimention to these threads... or is it really dementia?? ....and that makes it more like it is in the 'real world'.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 12:30:17 PM new
This thread also serves as an example of what I've been often accused of by the lefties here.
They always say [whatever the subject matter is about] it's because I support Bush...blindly...etc. When IN FACT it's NOT me supporting the Bush administration....it's me supportive what have been long term American policies that the left tries to BLAME on this administration. I don't see them the same way it appears.
I see this President ALSO supporting our Nation's long term policies on Israel. The lefties take that as I'm only doing it because I am a Bush supporter. So....as can be seen here....that's just not the truth at all.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 12:36:33 PM new
Linda:The lefties take that as I am a Bush supporter, so....as can be seen here....that's just not the truth at all.
posted on August 19, 2005 12:48:50 PM new
yes,but you are easily fooled LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Golfer:Stop checking your watch all the time,its too much of a distraction.
Caddy:Its not a watch, its a compass
posted on August 19, 2005 12:49:47 PM new
Yes, maggie....I understand that some, like you apparently, just can't grasp the difference between supporting long held, by both political partys, our NATIONAL policies.
And they just get soooo confused .....too much for their minds to comprehend....it just boggles their mind when this administration does what a democratic one does....but some of the dems here only disagree with that same said policy when a republican president is supporting it TOO.
It makes them look foolish....but hey....they don't have a problem with that....they're used to looking foolish and not winning elections.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 01:09:59 PM new
God, Linda.. lighten up, it was a joke!
Can't you laugh anymore..sheesh! I obviously took your words out of context.. a joke.. that's all a little light hearted joke in the middle of the afternoon..and you strike at me and call me names..
posted on August 19, 2005 01:25:45 PM new
maggie - I laugh here all the time....mostly at some of the stupid statements the left makes.
But then the left complains they don't like me laughing. They whine over and over about all the laughting/smiling faces I post. Can't please you guys/gals no matter which I do.
So...thought I'd use your supposed 'joke' to point out what some of the slower dems here don't get.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 01:54:19 PM new
::I see this President ALSO supporting our Nation's long term policies on Israel. The lefties take that as I'm only doing it because I am a Bush supporter. So....as can be seen here....that's just not the truth at all.::
Linda - I think you are confused. I don't think that you agree just because Bush does, as I stated earlier, I made the statement I made facitiously because you refused to accept what I offered as an answer and thought that might be easier for you to accept.
I find it interesting however that you have decided to AGAIN completely ignore what I said and assign your own meaning to it that, again, better fits into your comfort zone.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
