posted on August 19, 2005 01:56:26 PM new
BTW - I think there are two people here that jump all over when you laug or add a smiley face and they would probably complain if you said that the sky was blue so could you please do those of us that do treat you fairly a favor and stop lumping everyone that has a differing opinion that yourself into one group.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 02:12:00 PM new
I said: I see this President ALSO supporting our Nation's long term policies on Israel. The lefties take that as I'm only doing it because I am a Bush supporter. So....as can be seen here....that's just not the truth at all.
Linda - I think you are confused.
Thank you, but NO, I'm not at all confused on any of my positions.
I don't think that you agree just because Bush does, as I stated earlier,
I'm am well aware that YOU don't, fenix, but most of the other lefties here have made that statement to me over and over again. So I'm REAL CLEAR on who as and who hasn't said it to me.....therefore THEY don't have the ability to seperate the two.
I made the statement I made facitiously because you refused to accept what I offered as an answer and thought that might be easier for you to accept.
I didn't refuse anything, fenix. That's in your own mind....thinking that I did. I have already stated it just wasn't addressing the 'why' you'd always side with them vs Israel. Your were very clear on which side you supported....but in your first post you were speaking for 'most democrats' rather than, imo, giving me fenix's 'why' to my questions. That's all.
I find it interesting however that you have decided to AGAIN completely ignore what I said and assign your own meaning to it that, again, better fits into your comfort zone.
I don't agree I've done that...can you be more specific?
posted on August 19, 2005 02:20:26 PM new
LOL maggie - Well let's get one thing perfectly straight..
When I tell a joke you must laugh!
Okay...got that. BUT ONLY IF you stop putting in those faces when someone shares a joke you don't care for. How's that?
----------
fenix - I see many more than two who do that to me. And I do appreciate the fact you don't. I have always respected you for being able to debate without getting into all the other nonsense. So when you did it today...
I think it will be easier for me to just exclude your name when I'm making 'broad brush' statements about the dems. That way I won't have to type in the whol list of names of dems who have and still do post that way to me.
I'll say what I want to say and then I'll make an [ex:fenix] which will let YOU know I'm not including you.
Will that make you happier?
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 02:21:20 PM new
::I have already stated it just wasn't addressing the 'why' you'd always side with them vs Israel.::
See Linda - I gave you the answer, I gave you the answer TWICE even and still you REFUSE to accept that that is the reason. It's not what you want to hear, and it's not something you understand so you have REFUSED to accept it as being an answer. For some reason, you want to clump every liberal and every democrat together as a single minded entity right up until the point that you get an answer that you don't want to hear.
What is the proper response that you are going to feel comfortable with?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 02:28:17 PM new "I find it interesting however that you have decided to AGAIN completely ignore what I said and assign your own meaning to it that, again, better fits into your comfort zone."
That's a chronic problem that will never be resolved. In your case, she may relent because after all, she must have someone to chat with.
posted on August 19, 2005 02:33:53 PM new
fenix - And then I asked you a question, which is still unanswered. The other I have addressed in my post ^^^^.
I'm going to use one example so hopefully I'm clearer on what I'm trying to understand about your position.
Tell me if we agree on this one:
Above you mentioned the house bombings. So I'll try to stick to that one.
The Israel government was VERY clear, at one point, on IF the terrorists bombed their people, they would retaliate by finding the one's responsible and blowing up their homes.
are we in agreement to this point?
Then, imo, they did just what they said they were going to do and you critize THEIR actions. No criticism from you on who started it in the first place....[the terrorists, not the Israel gov.]. No recognization from you that they WERE warned what was going to happen, no mention that their families were removed before the houses were destroyed, and absolutely no credit for the Israeli's telling the terrorists...."for every one of our people you kill, we're going to take 10 of yours out".
Sounds to me like all the way around the responsibility for who started this type of thing lies with the Palestinians....but you blame Israel. That's why I don't understand....why? WHen it's clear who started it each time.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 02:38:10 PM new
LOL helen....you're cracking me up again with your little pretend games. Many here talk to me including YOU. LOL
You just won't answer the hard questions....and disappear as soon as they're asked.
You've establised a pattern of doing that....and everyone notices it.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 02:44:26 PM new
Linda - 1 person put together the plot, they are in 1 apartment. Why doi you have to blow up a building and kill 30 or 40 who are guilty only of living in the same building?
For some reason you seem to think that I hold terrorists in Palestine free of responsibility although I have never said anything to that extent. I don't, but at the same time, I have a hard time finding justification for a government that resorts to terrorist actions (as in killing 30 people in an attempt to punish a single individual).
The Isreali military and intelligence machine is too well trained and to well funded to be able to justify such non targeted actions.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 03:08:46 PM new1 person put together the plot, they are in 1 apartment. Why doi you have to blow up a building and kill 30 or 40 who are guilty only of living in the same building?
First off...it would depend on the situation....there have been many. So, imo, to limit it to only one terrorist would not be the case in MANY of the times it's been done.
Secondly like I said...they've been warned to get out of those buildings. If they do not, then yes, they are killed. But they WERE given a warning. And with different situations it could have been a whole house/apt. full of known terrorists that this happened to. It would depend on which case we were speaking about. THey've not all involved many others....some have just been against one person. But some have also been against a know cluster of terrorists who are/were/have been involved in these murders of Israeli's.
For some reason you seem to think that I hold terrorists in Palestine free of responsibility although I have never said anything to that extent.
Nope, I never have believed that about your posts. I've read enough of them over the years to know you do mention, more fairly than any other dems here when you see their actions being TOTALLY unreasonable. But I still hold my opinion that you favor the Palestinians way more than you do the Israel. It's been a bias I've noticed in most of the dem postings here, including yours. You're just not as rigid as some of the more hard-core lefties here.
You're more flexiable than they are, imo.
I don't, but at the same time, I have a hard time finding justification for a government that resorts to terrorist actions (as in killing 30 people in an attempt to punish a single individual).
Something else I've notice about dems [as a whole].....they don't seem to appreciate 'rules' or promises made....or how else can I say it?.....hmmmm....being able to see who starts what. Like when parents make a rule and the child doesn't follow it...breaks the rule....they won't hold the child responsible for their own actions. They'll find an excuse for what their actions were....and sometimes place the blame on someone else.
That's what I see here...many times from the left...and not just on this issue either. It's like they lack 'follow-through' or that when someone says something....they ACTUALLY mean it...and will follow though with their promise or threat.
I don't know if I've made that any clearer or not. But it's like a 'promise/threat' is made....and the terrorists don't believe Israel will really do what they said they'd do....IF forced to....and then when they do...they get blamed that it happened in the first place. NOT, imo, the way it should go down. The one who started the fight gets no sympathy from me. And, in this case, I see it's 99% started by the Palestinians/terrorists.
The Isreali military and intelligence machine is too well trained and to well funded to be able to justify such non targeted actions.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 03:22:13 PM new
kraft, I'm not really staying, ya know. But since I saw you got that abandonment thing going on...I'm weaning ya off slowly..so ya dont get frantic without me.(j/k)
posted on August 19, 2005 03:32:06 PM new
Linda - the big difference is that you think that it's justifiable to blow up a building full of people to get one that may or may not be inside because you warned that you would do it in the past and I think that it does not matter that you promised to do it in the past, it does not change the fact that you blew up innocent people and the homes of innocent people in order to get at 1 individual.
The other people in that building did not harm Israel and therefore they are innocents and the fact that people justify their murder by a Isreal only further enables themto continue on the same path rather than finding more responsible and reasonable methods top bring GUILTY parties to justice. And I'm not taking about court. You can shoot them in the head as the walk down the street for all I care, just don't use a missile to do it and take out three shops the people within them while you are at it.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 19, 2005 03:33 PM ]
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 19, 2005 03:34 PM ]
posted on August 19, 2005 03:38:43 PM newLinda - the big difference
LOL!! c'mon now fenix. The big difference?What about the masterminds behind the suicide bombings? Exactly where is their concern for innocents? You act like the Israelis are the only ones doing anything extreme over there. And they're not by any measure.
posted on August 19, 2005 03:43:11 PM new
One is a terrorist Dbl - the other is a government... are you telling me that they should be held to the same standard?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 04:15:33 PM new
Linda_K, Guess what another Gold Star mother from Georgia along with other Gold Star mothers are on their way to Texas to take Mrs.Sheehan place. Mrs. Sheehan had to return home to look after her sick mother.
The Georgia mother along with other Gold Star Mothers have never talked to Bush and want to ask him more or less the same questions Mrs.Sheehan wanted to ask. What do ya think will Bush meet with these Gold Star Mothers to explain himself? I wonder if any of these Gold Star Mothers voted for Bush or are they all like you often say just Democrat "Bush Haters". Do you believe the Bush voting mothers will hurt the Democrats also.
About moveon.org they simply asked people in support of Cindy Sheehan to show their support. Over 100,000 people in over 16,000 places across America did just that and nothing more. The people that turned out for Mrs.Sheehan received millions of signs of support from passing cars also showing their support by waving,blowing their horns and cheering. If that support transfers into votes in 2006 for a Democrat its your side that is hurting not the Democrats. YES!!!
Linda_K you need to face reality and quit trying to distort reality.
posted on August 19, 2005 04:16:38 PM new
We are miscommunicating once again.
I said that the Israeli's tell people to get out of the homes they are living in.
IF THEY choose not to....well...that's THEIR decision, imo.
I'm not going to stay in a building I've been warned to exit.
IF the whole apt. building is believed to be full of known terrorists.....I have no problem with the place being leveled in retaliation of THEIR actions of murdering innocent Israeli's.
Hope MY position is clearer now. You appeared to be missing the part where they ARE warned to get out.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 04:21:25 PM new
sorry dbl....but I can't let this one pass.
One is a terrorist Dbl - the other is a government... are you telling me that they should be held to the same standard?
HELL YES!! You think they're are organized in this war? LOL Just because they don't have military uniforms doesn't mean there's not much support and organization behind their actions.
I can't believe you even said that. Like you think it's just one lone man/terrorist bomber against the whole Israel military. Give me a break.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 04:35:00 PM new
peepa - sorry you can't read well....I said "all parents that WANTED to meet with him' have been given the opportunity.
If they didn't choose to do so when they had the chance...that's their fault. It wasn't because he wasn't willing.
become alert please.
----
and since you like polls so much peepa here's one for you:
from Rasmussen Reports:
Cindy Sheehan: 35% Favorable 38% UnfavorableSurvey of 1,000 Adults
August 17-18, 2005
Cindy Sheehan
Favorable35%Unfavorable38%
RasmussenReports.com
Following Sheehan Story
Very Closely25%Somewhat Closely30%Not Very Closely27%Not At All15%
RasmussenReports.com
August 19, 2005--Cindy Sheehan, the grieving mother who maintained an anti-War protest outside of President Bush's ranch, is viewed favorably by 35% of Americans and unfavorably by 38%.
Sheehan is viewed favorably by 34% of men and 35% of women.
Forty-two percent (42%) of men and 34% of women have an unfavorable view.
In general, people see in Sheehan what they want to see. Opinion about her is largely based upon views of the War, rather than views about the woman herself.
Democrats, by a 56% to 18% margin, have a favorable opinion.
Republicans, by a 64% to 16% margin, have an unfavorable view.
Those not affiliated with either major party are evenly divided.
People who think we should withdraw troops from Iraq now have a positive opinion of Sheehan (59% favorable, 12% unfavorable).
Those who do not think we should withdraw troops at this time have a negative view (15% favorable , 64% unfavorable).
Among those with family members who have served in the military, Sheehan is viewed favorably by 31% and unfavorably by 48%.
Forty-two percent (42%) of Married Americans have an unfavorable opinion of Sheehan while 33% have a favorable opinion. Among those who are not married, Sheehan's numbers are 38% favorable and 30% favorable.
Fifty-five percent (55%) of Americans say they are following the Sheehan story somewhat or very closely. That is a lower level of interest than Americans have in stories about Iran's nuclear capabilities. It is roughly comparable to the interest in stories about Supreme Court nominee John Roberts.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 04:42:59 PM new
NO Linda - They have warned when they are about to strike on compounds, they do not warn when they are about to pull air strikes on residential buildings.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 04:44:28 PM new
I have to admit, I have not followed Sheehans story much at all. I didn't even know about it until last week or so. I feel badly for all the families tht lost loved ones in the military.
And I'm still confused to when she met with the Pres. I heard it was up here at Ft Lewis, but wasn't that awhile ago? And from that meeting I had heard that she thought that Bush was a very sympathetic to all the families that were there. That is why I am confused to this new? thing going on in TX.
posted on August 19, 2005 04:49:14 PM new
:: One is a terrorist Dbl - the other is a government... are you telling me that they should be held to the same standard?
HELL YES!!::
That says a lot Linda. When you hold the government of a civilized democratic nation to no greater standard than you do a rogue terrorist and then excuse them when they act like rogue terrorists then there really is nothing else to be said.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 19, 2005 04:49 PM ]
posted on August 19, 2005 05:43:35 PM new
fenix, youre trying to apply some idealic American standards to a government, a nation, a people! besiged by violence for forty years or more. It's not possible.
Apparantly these other dwellers were warned to leave the building? I dont think that is quite the same tactic used by the 'rogue terrorists'? Its like a teacher who punishes the whole class because one or two are doing something and nobody will rat them out. Its really not the most unreasonable punishment when all else fails. And dont say its different because it involves death. Death and destruction is a daily occurance over there. None of them live by the standards or expectations we do. And all of them are guilty of perpetuating the hate. That is what they teach their children.
posted on August 19, 2005 06:03:48 PM new
Dbl - I would love for you and/or Linda to provide some source of information that back up the claim that Israel provides advanced warning ofthe times and location of their RESIDENTIAL air strikes. Now they have done it in the past when they were planning strikes again terrorist compounds when their interntion was to destroy the compound but I have never heard of them doing it when their intention is to kill an individual. I mean think about it... does i even makes sense? What kind of strategy states that in order to ensure the death of an enemy you should warn everyone in the building the time you are coming. You target isa going to be warned as well ans leave and in that case, you are just destroying peoples homes for the sake of seeing them go BOOM.
Are you honestly going to compare extra homework to death, injury and homelessness?
Go away... there is just no justifying that comparison and no hope for anyone that would actually make it.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 19, 2005 06:46:59 PM new
Well Linda_K let the coward come out to meet the Gold Star parents. Did you ever think he may not have any answers. Maybe it would DISTURD one of his long vacations.
A better heading for your post would have been. Will This Presidents Inactivity Hurt The Republican Party Even More?
posted on August 19, 2005 07:04:13 PM new
fenix, there's no hope for you! Youre just sympathic to the palestines and the terrorists. Just like in the Iraq thread where you stated they are simply citizens defending their country. As ususal, you are stuck on one aspect of the entire conflict, and cannot see past it to the broader picture.
posted on August 19, 2005 07:30:18 PM new
The President came out to talk to the protesters? haven't heard that one, but if he did, then how is he a coward now. If in fact he did come out and to talk to these people?
posted on August 19, 2005 07:32:23 PM new
And here's big peepa, another one with a robin hood complex. Too bad he's unaware he's not even posting his comments in the correct topic of the threads.
posted on August 19, 2005 07:39:50 PM new
I agree with dbl's conclusion about you on this and most subjects where it has to do with Arabs/Muslims/Saudi's....you do have a bias towards them, fenix.
That is how I see it too. sorry....but that's just the truth.
As far as linking a source....I'm not going to bother trying to convince you....as I stated before that wasn't my goal/intention. Just to better understand on what basis you formed your opinions on.
I remember the time frame was when Israel had first decided this was the drastic measures they were going to take to try and stop the Palestinians from their bombings in Israel.
And I was watching a house being torn down by a bulldozer. The entire family was outside and whaling and crying about their house being destroyed.
The TV commentator was the one who mentioned that at least the Israel's had warned the families to get out....so they weren't killed. That the Israel soldiers just wanted the bomber...if still alive....and his house so his family would suffer in some way because of his terrible actions. I thought that was a pretty fair deal on the part of the Israeli's.
So I know they ARE warned....whether you wish to believe it or not.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 19, 2005 10:02:40 PM new
Linda - have you retained a word of what I said? I am not talking about a single family home and a bulldozer. I'm talking about the airstrikes on apartment complexes. Personally I couldn't care less what conclusion you and Dbl here have come up with considering the fact that it is painfully obvious that you have either
1) Not paid any attention to anything that I have said
or
2) Simply dismissed it as something that strays to far from your comfort zone.
Once again the problem is that you don't seem to be able to accept that not every arab is a terrorist.
Here is the type of action I was talking about Linda....
________________________
New York, July 23, 2002) Today's Israel Defense Forces air strike on a crowded Gaza apartment building demonstrated a clear failure to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch condemned the attack as a violation of international humanitarian law.
"An attack that killed thirteen civilians and injured scores was clearly not carried out in a manner that minimized casualties. It should never have gone ahead. In such a crowded civilian area, these deaths and injuries were absolutely foreseeable."
Thirteen civilians were reported killed and some 140 injured in the attack. At least eight of the civilians killed were children. The intended target, Hamas military leader Salah al-Shahada, was also killed, as another Hamas member reportedly was.
"An attack that killed thirteen civilians and injured scores was clearly not carried out in a manner that minimized casualties. It should never have gone ahead," said Joe Stork, Washington director of the Middle East and North Africa division of Human Rights Watch. "In such a crowded civilian area, these deaths and injuries were absolutely foreseeable."
_________________________
June 10, 2003 - Three Israeli Apache helicopter gunships fire seven missiles at the car of a senior Hamas leader in Gaza City, wounding him and killing two bystanders. More than two dozen others are hurt.
Later in the day, Israeli tanks and helicopters fire toward a Palestinian residential area in the northern Gaza Strip, killing three Palestinians and wounding 30, doctors say.
_____________________________
See, I don't have a problem with firing 1 missile at a car that contains a terrorist, but did hey need SEVEN? NO of course not, but the worst thing that will happen is Bush will tel them they are being "Heavy-Handed" (his responses to the 2002 bombing) and that will be it so why not?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 19, 2005 10:05 PM ]
posted on August 20, 2005 03:56:46 AM new
dblfogger9, you said I am unaware that I am not posting my comments to the correct topic of the threads.
Your effort to LIE AND FOG UP THE ISSUE isn't working.
You need to read Linda_K's first post. You will then see who first brought up the issue of the COWARD Bush and Gold Star Mothers.
I suggested a better heading for Linda_K's post would have been
WILL BUSH HURT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY EVEN MORE
Bush/Cheney/Rove are hurting the republican party is the reality in 2005. No matter how you and Linda_K try to FOG up the truth and reality your words and efforts are failing.
BUT ONLY IF you stop putting in those 
faces when someone shares a joke you don't care for. How's that? 