posted on January 11, 2001 09:12:01 PM new
I have sold some books, and I always use the bubble mailers, but I also wrap the book with a ton of bubble wrap first! I have only had happy owners, and for that I am thankful!
And what makes you think the conveyers and sorting machines can read the stamps?
I'm not saying that machines can read the stamps. All i'm stating is that my method has worked for me for over two years and until I start getting complaints from my buyers i'll continue doing it the same way that has worked for me for so long. Also please note the following in my initial statement:
Now if I were selling more expensive books I would consider shipping in a more protective manner.
I'm not selling 50 - 200 year old books, so I don't package them like they are works of art. The craft books I sell I buy in bulk. All are new and if I have a problem i'll be more than happy to replace the damaged book at my expense. To date this hasn't happened.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:55:31 PM new
Oh, THAT rant! LOL
When I get emails from buyers who try to tell me how to pack an item I normally file it in the computer equivilant of the real life "circular file".
If a buyer tried to INTIMIDATE me in the way the "rant" tries to, I would probably probably politely email the customer and "suggest" that we cancel the transaction as neither one of us is going to be happy...then I would send their money back to them.
posted on January 12, 2001 05:27:57 AM new
I bought a $12 paperback from a seller. Now I had been wanting this book for awhile.... it's almost impossible to find locally, so I was thrilled when I found it. The book is OOP and was produced only as a paperback and a BCE and was fairly cultish 20 years ago. I was psyched about getting this book as I had told my hubby about it so many times, and was looking forward to reading it to him.
My book arrived 10 days after I sent payment.. very acceptable since it was sent bookrate............ HOWEVER:
The edge of the package had been run over by a truck (presumably a mail truck) and had been retaped. I wish I still had pictures of this package to show y'all. Anyhow, I gently opened it, to find the book totally distroyed. The top section of the paperback was torn down and this included the first 50 pages of the text section.
The packing job on the book?
Manila envelope with a thin layer of bubblewrap.
I took pics and contacted the seller. Her response was "well you paid for insurance" so here's a copy of the slip.
Took the whole thing to the post office.. and their response?
inadequate packaging and they did not honor the insurance claim.
The seller's response to this? Well, it's not my problem so you'll have to work it out with them... that's exactly what insurance is for!
The seller earned a big fat neg for inadequate packaging.. (her first neg for this in over 1120 feedbacks.. apparently this is the first time this has ever happened to her and she ALWAYS packages her books like this).
I'm out $12.00 (+shipping) But I do have a ruined book that I can not read to my husband and a disappointed husband. The good news is that I finally found a HB BCE copy of this book off of Barnes & Nobel for $42.00 .. bought that.
So someone explain to me, exactly what I was 'saving' when the seller packaged that book as inexpensively/easily as they could. Problems do come up, so when they do, be prepared for disappointed, unhappy customers. It's not always about the money for them.. sometimes it's because they really wanted what you had to offer.. even if the item isn't necessarily "rare" or "collectible".. and not everyone has 2 copies of things.. so they can send the second as a backup. Also, if you're packaging in this method and using insurance....... you're wasting your customer's money... cause the PO won't pay the claim because of inadequate packing.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:05:46 AM new
Envelope with bubblewrap around book, shredded by conveyor or edge of another package:
Does anyone want to risk their feedback with these things?
Corner bumping due to inadequate packing. I think this book was shipped with manila envelope and a layer of bubblewrap method. The sudden change of direction at the corner indicates a recent bump ... they usually just become rounded and fuzzy at the corners. This damage was not mentioned in the ad although it is a serious flaw, indicating bad storage and careless handling
Same book, from the side. this ios not the most extreme case I have recieved. In one case, the corners of the cover were actually pounded FLAT to the page block.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:09:17 AM new
I am still sending the majority of my books in padded envelopes with complete success in many hundreds of auctions. Each book goes in a plastic bag and then either a bubble envelope or now the sturdier padded envelopes. Heavy or very expensive books (rare for me) get a box as do multiple book orders. If I have some extra padding material I use that with the envelopes.
posted on January 12, 2001 08:16:35 AM newThe edge of the package had been run over by a truck (presumably a mail truck) and had been retaped. Took the whole thing to the post office.. and their response?
inadequate packaging and they did not honor the insurance claim.
Now, I've always understood that, in order to collect on a damaged item claim, the item must have been packed properly, but I never, in my wildest dreams, suspected that the post office's policy was:
Adequate packing = Must be able to be run over it with a truck and sustain no damage.
posted on January 12, 2001 09:12:36 AM new
ROSIEBUD----just curious...what was the book's title??
_______________________________________---
When I pack--I pack the book so I know it will arrive at the buyer's house in the same condition it left mine.
If it gets dropped in a puddle--the book will stay dry--all edges and flaps are taped shut so no machinery can catch it--and there is cardboard re-inforcement around the book to insure no damage.
I can wrap a book in 3 minutes or less---the material I use probably costs 25 cents or less.
posted on January 12, 2001 09:22:51 AM new
HI all -
I don't remember reading anyone here saying they'd put what appears to be an older hardcover book in any sort of envelope [referring to the photo]. I know what I have in mind are slim trade paperbacks and maybe the occasional small paperbacks, though I rarely sell those. However, rosiebud's paperback example is disturbing.
The only package that has been reported back to me as damaged, that I recall, was actually a box which somehow came open along the taped seam, though from what I gather it was only partially separated and nothing came out. I think it's possible that any piece of mail could fall under the truck or something, but if the item is not, in fact, rare or out of print like rosiebud's novel, or a 19th century hardcover, it seems like the methods described here would work.
posted on January 12, 2001 09:30:02 AM new
Zazzie ~ The Second Son by Charles Sailor ~ not a small/thin paperback
Cardboard reinforcement would have saved the book from the amount of damage that it suffered. It still would have been damaged, that is without a fact.... but it would have still been readable as the first 50 pages of text would not have been destroyed as they were.
A couple extra minutes to package things correctly... a couple scraps of cardboard .. It can make the difference between a happy customer, who will buy from you again..... VS one who is gonna be really ticked off because it was an item that they really wanted.
posted on January 12, 2001 09:40:45 AM new
Maybe I'm missing something here..... *and I think this is my word for the week or something.. lol*.. but:
Why discriminate? Does it matter if the book is a 18th century 1 of a kind........ or a dimestore novel that can be picked up at almost all second hand book stores for .25? Why is it 'ok' to package one one way.. but not ok for the other to be packaged the same way as the first? Why should you vary your packing technique for these two items? Afterall, if it's "ok" for one, it should be.. "ok" for the second.. right?
I would really like to hear the answers to those questions. Then I might have some more questions for ya
posted on January 12, 2001 09:57:46 AM new
Well--I treat my $5.00 paperbacks the same way I treat the books that sell for $100's of dollars.
They may not get the same packing material--but they will both arrive unchanged from the day they left me.
The seller that is selling easily replaced craft books has made the decision to wrap as simply as possible--that works in this situation--any damage (if the buyer cares) will be taken care of.
-but with used books--every book is unique. The condition, the edition, etc---and I think of even the most common of titles as a unique book. Maybe I can get another copy of the book(if I don't have one in stock)--but it won't be quite the same.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:08:45 AM new
rosiebud - for me it has to do with $$$, not so much the age, etc. of the book. I charge NO fees for packing/handling, therefore I do not package a used paperback that realized 2.00 at auction like I would a book that sold for more. I have sent out hundreds of books (95% of them boxed) and have had no complaints. In fact, I have received great feedback comments on my packing.
The books I put into envelopes are CAREFULLY WRAPPED, even if they only brought a dollar; but they don't get the same treatment that they'd get if they sold for more. Just a matter of economics, as far as I am concerned.
On the insurance matter: I'd have contested a claim refusal if the package had obviously been run over by something; sometimes taking it one step further is all that is necessary to get the claim paid.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:11:20 AM new
rosiebud -
I pack ALL books as if they were priceless ... and to the buyer that $7.50 tattered copy of a child's book probably is a priceless memento of their childhood. It tells the buyer that they are important to me.
A seller is not in the position to decide what is "valuable" or not, unless they are an expert in the bookselling field. I bought a book on eBay that sold for less than $20, that I can RESELL for over $200. If it had been damged by lousy packing, it would not have been replaceable for $20.
Someone shipping dozens of identical new books, where they can say "here, have a new one" are saying to the customer that gets a damaged book "I'd rather waste your time and annoy a few customers than make sure I do it right the first time for everybody."
posted on January 12, 2001 10:12:54 AM new
I sell almost exclusively books - a couple of hundred a month on average. My best investment - I've been thrilled with has been an oversized impulse sealer. (under $100 at office depot) I can easily take scraps of bubble wrap or any plastic bag and create a waterproof package in just a few seconds. I keep the sealer near the kitchen and use it a lot for resealing food packages too. It's great for chips, etc.
Depending on the edges of the book I either seal it in bubble wrap - then place it in a bubble wrap envelope - or wrap it with corrugated b-flute - then put it in the bubble wrap envelope. I pick up free supplies whereever I can find them but have found a local supplier (SunPak in Dallas) that offers free delivery and great discounts when buying in bulk.
If the book is irreplaceable or seems fragile from age - I put it in a box rather than an envelope.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:16:48 AM new
I recently received an item in a Priority Mail tyvek envelope which was stuffed into my mailbox. It was raining and the mailman didn't close the lid.
Fortunately, the tyvek envelope was sealed tight so the item stayed dry. For reasons like this, I put everything I send inside a plastic ziploc bag, books included. If the book is too large for a ziploc, I find another large plastic bag and tape it securely shut.
I always tell my bidders that their item will be inside plastic so they don't panic about the item becoming damaged.
I have send books inside a plastic bag, wrapped in cardboard for protection inside manilla envelopes. I was able to find some last year at 18/$1.00 at the $.99 store. Now the envelopes are 3/$1.00.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:20:39 AM new
rosiebud - that's a good question. For myself, the answer is that for the most part, I've shipped everything in boxes, so I don't have in mind that some books are more valuable than others, per se.
The main difference I can see is that some lightweight, paperbound books could "do just fine" if wrapped well in padding and shipped in a lightweight container [I think - not having tried it yet] whereas a heavier or fragile book might not make it. That's all. For example, I've gotten paperbacks from half.com sellers wrapped only in heavy paper, and I was at first appalled...until I opened them and found them in perfect condition.
I plan to order some boxes from the uline site posted here yesterday, but I am also open-minded to other approaches that would work well for some kinds of books. By this I dont' mean to imply that certain books are OK to damage.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:24:25 AM new
Our best investment for packing was one of the big tape machines that wets and dispenses wide, fiber-reinforced packing tape. I am definitely obsessive about taping, and I love this machine! Any packing material is made a lot tougher when taped with this stuff.
It cost almost $200.00, but I consider it worth every cent. We use almost all recycled packing material, so tape is just about our only packing expense.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:35:20 AM new
I sell books used paperbacks mostly. I first put them in a plastic magazine holder and wrap it tightly around the book and tape it shut. Then cover that with bubblewrap. Then cut out two pieces of cardboard that slightly overlaps the books, so the corners do not stick out. Tape that securely all the way around. That goes into a bubble mailer. I get lots of good feedback on my wrapping. I do use boxes on occasion, I had two paperback books this month sell for $33 and $40 and they went into boxes. Multiple books also go into boxes.
One thing I did pick up here that I will start doing is writing the address on the cardboard covering the books.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:38:18 AM new
kudzurose ~ so it'd be perfectly OK if you were to bid on .. oh a $10 ceremic music box and the seller did not use as much peanuts and bubblewrap as they did with the $250 Tiffany glass bowl that they sold . This seller didn't charge a handling fee either.. and .. afterall, the item you bought was ONLY a $10.00 item.. and does not deserve the same treatment (packaging) as the more expensive item... right?
posted on January 12, 2001 10:59:29 AM new
I am not interested in changing a method that works 99.9 percent of the time in order to acheive a mythical 100%. I think the "Total Quality Control" attitude is just a corporate legend designed to make employees crazy and attempt to pacify those few irate customers who are never, ever happy no matter what. I got out of retail for exactly that reason and I'm much less stressed now. There will always be a few extreme people who expect things I would never expect and the beauty of working for myself means I get to blow them off (i.e., I get to say: here...Do me a favor....TAKE your money back! With that attitude, I don't WANT it!) and concentrate on the 99.9 percent who are happy to get excellent customer service and excellent packing. After over 300 combined feedback with no negs and countless positives complimenting me on my great CS and great wrapping, I'd rather just refund the money of the .01 percent who are unhappy. Take your angst somewhere else.
posted on January 12, 2001 11:00:28 AM new
dragonfree - I do that a lot too, with the cardboard. I have access to a lot of thin cardboard boxes, and keep some flattened just for that purpose. As for the address inside the package - that is another thing I am obsessive about. It is also recommended by the USPS.
rosiebud - Wrong. I think you are comparing walnuts and eggs.
A few weeks ago, I sold a book for a little over $300. It went out wrapped in tissue, plastic, bubble-wrap, and double-boxed with "peanuts" between the two boxes. Then the outer box was just about covered with reinforced tape. Can I, and will I, do that for all my books? No. But they do go out well-wrapped, and I've had no mishaps.
posted on January 12, 2001 11:28:00 AM new
kudzurose ~ But according to your first statement, after I had asked my question, it is the thinking that is "acceptable".
If it's a low cost item, it does not deserve the same consideration as a more expensive item, because of the fees that are involved for you, the seller. It's the exact same principle I used in my example. The principle is the same, even if the items are not.
posted on January 12, 2001 02:58:07 PM new
I use the paper padded mailers generally. Sometimes a box with packing to prevent slippage when warranted. If it's an old book, I'll wrap it in bubble wrap simply to prevent damage to the book when it's being slid into the envelope and eventually out of the envelope by the buyer.
So far, never a complaint and many compliments in my feedback concerning the packing.
posted on January 12, 2001 03:31:23 PM new
I tried running a paperback in a manila envelope in the laundry drier for 20 minutes. It came out in good shape.
If a truck runs over a box it gets damaged just as quickly as an envelope would.
posted on January 12, 2001 03:33:17 PM new
If I got an order from our friend abacaxi I'd be very incline to wrap one loop of tape around it to keep it closed and place a mailing label directly onto the cover. That's it. Period.
After hundreds of books I have yet to have a complaint. In fact, I have lot and lots of great packing feedback. They all go in a ziplock bag. Whether they then go into a box or bubble bag depends on the value of the book.
I don't believe that my customers want to pay for the extra packing and extra postage a box entails for an inexpensive book that will get there safely 99% of the time in a bubble bag.
Books over $100, however, get the ming vase treatment at my expense. That increases the likely hood of safe arrival from 99% to 99.9 percent. I haven't figured out how to pack a book to survive getting run over by a mail truck or a steam roller!
posted on January 12, 2001 03:47:12 PM new
I have followed this thread with interest mostly to see if I would read something which would change my mind about how I pack my books. To recap I use heavy padded manila envelopes which I first wrap in shrink wrap and sometimes I use a double padded envelope. I nearly cover the package in heavy duty tape. Older books I box. (Older books are more fragile then new contemporary books I typically sell.)
Typically I don't let exceptions to a rule dictate how I live my life or run my buisness. I have probably sold close to 3,000 books on-line in the past 4 years. I have nearly 2000 feedback on three sites. Many of my customers are repeat customers. I have one negative for poor packaging. I might add that that book was run over by a truck or a fork lift. It was demolished. I gave the man a refund and he still gave me a negative.
My customers are happy so I am happyy. So follow your common sense and do whatever you think is best. There is more then one way to mail a book.
posted on January 12, 2001 03:56:09 PM new
You can definitely go into overkill when wrapping a book.
I'm cheap---I refuse to buy bubble envelopes--or any kind of envelope.
For PB--I bought a bulk box of white kitchen catchers from Costco--I believe there were about 300 bags for around $5.00. These I cut into 4--and these I use to wrap and tape around the book to waterproof it.---I then secure 2 pieces of 'recycled' cardboard (pre-cut) on either side of the book---wrap in a double sheet of newspaper---then wrap in Brown Freezer paper that has a waxy side for extra dampness protection.----tape up all the loose bits and I'm done.
Less than 3 minutes--cost of almost nil--and even though there isn't a bubble in site--it would take a bomb to damage the book.
posted on January 12, 2001 05:32:45 PM new
figmente: If the book came out in good shape, what condition was it when it first went in?
----------
Seriously though, I thought it was a good experiment, but I had a hard time believing that a book could go into a dryer for 20 minutes, in only a manila envelope, and come out in the same condition it went in as...... so I ran my own experiment... and decided to document it with pics too.
Both books were in similar condition.. (read one time, with the typical spine creases) but no corner bumps or shelf wear. If I were to rate the two paperbacks I would rate them as Very Good.. but not new because they had been read once.
book1 before packaging:
book2 before packaging:
book1, packaged in only a manila envelope:
book2, packaged in a bubblepadded envelope:
Books were run, in an empty dryer for 20 minutes on air dry only, as I didn't want to add any heat into the equation.
Book1, immediately out of the dryer.. the envelope faired pretty well!
Book2, immediately out of the dyer.. oops, it's got some damage, the envelope 'seam' is a bit dinged and ripped.
Now let's open these up:
Book 1.. Oh, there's IS a bit of a problem.. in fact, 4 seperate problems:
Spine is not square anymore:
Bottom corner is a but bumped and crumpled:
Top took a definite beating:
Bottom corner at the spine doesn't look so good anymore either *perhaps that's why the spine isn't square anymore?*
Now, let's go take a look at book2:
Book2's spine is still nice and straight:
Oh, but there is a problem.. it does have a corner bump now:
Amazingly enough, that was the only damage to book2. As you see, it (book1) did not fair as well as book2. Both books only went through a dryer... I'm more than sure that the post office is much more rough than a dryer.
I would have liked to see what a book, that was packaged w/ cardboard inserts, would have come out looking like. (sorry, was cooking dinner while I was conducting this experiment). I almost imagine that it would have come out with less damage than book2.
So all of you, who are packaging with minimal materials and standing behind your good feedback.... keep knocking on wood.. cause one of these days.. something's going to happen and you'll get negged. I don't wish that on you..but it's just the way things are.
