posted on January 12, 2001 05:38:27 PM new
...and when I do get that neg for a bumped corner on a used mass market paperback book, I'll be sure to respond with "Buyer extremely anal. Requested that she not purchase from me again."
posted on January 12, 2001 05:53:11 PM new
brighid -
Some of those "used mass market" paperbacks can be scarce and expensive, and the corner damge decreases the value to collectors. Unless you are absolutely certain that the buyer doesn't care if the book suffers a few dings in transit, pack them well.
Zazzie - If it doesn't rain here, what's dripping through my roof? Beer?
posted on January 12, 2001 05:53:42 PM new
Geez, I think some of you have much too much time on your hands and need to do something a bit more constructive than these book/washing machine experiments and perhaps even need to "get a life" as the kids say.
Did you ever stop to think or wonder how the countless college catalogs, thick magazines, regular catalogs (whether in a manilla envelope or even 'unwrapped') manage to get to you in perfect condition MOST of the time?
posted on January 12, 2001 06:12:14 PM new
Such nonchalant attitudes......... Didn't I read some threads awhile ago about sales going down in the book category? Gives one reason to pause and think about diminished sales .. Y'all thought it was half.com, ZShops, etc.. but it's most likely a combination of many things... including sellers who have such nonchalant attitudes about "mass market paperbacks". Afterall, to many avid book people, those are just as important as a $100 OOP publication.
kyriaki ~ You're right.. I do need to get a life. I need to get back to reading one of the series of mass market paperbacks that I picked up at a national retailer right before christmas .. because I didn't feel like parting with $325 to individual ebay sellers. True, I could have saved a considerable amount of time.. and/or gotten more books for my $325.. but you know? I would have never been sure what I would have gotten.. and with Amazon *not the ZShops* I knew EXACTLY what I was getting and what condition they would arrive in, when I ordered books from them.
It's too bad I couldn't have predicted what sort of condition books would have arrived in from ebay sellers.. otherwise I would have made a couple of them very happy. It's too bad.. but it's no loss to me. Besides, I'm sure the sellers are happier, cause they didn't have to deal with a PITA customer. OOPS, maybe not, just checked, the sellers are still trying to peddal their merchandise. Oh well, THAT isn't my problem, it's theirs.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:51:42 PM new
I'm disappointed. Why hasn't anyone gone to the zoo yet and brought back photos of the jiffy bag stomped by a baby elephant?
keziak
whose never found the money in mass market paperbacks, but now wonders about the $5 goodie on half.com! ; - )
posted on January 12, 2001 07:26:07 PM new
rosiebud - the paperbacks I tumbled took less damage than that, The envelopes were lighter, not padded, maybe better fitting. I wrapped the books in a sheet of ordinary copier/printer paper, and taped each end. But regards "I'm more than sure that the post office is much more rough than a dryer." I'm not so sure, in the worst case - of course, bu I think that most of the time such a package would go though handled as letter mail and receive very little abuse.
OTOH - the majority of books which I have purchased on ebaY have arrived very well packed, often up to and sometimes above abacaxi's excellent recommendations.
ebaY book sellers range from serious professional bookdealers to the most amatuer dabblers. Most ads / fb profiles give a fair idea of approximately where in that spectrum the seller fits. If you are buying from one that looks pretty professional, or if you are buying low value books to read, then there is little need to worry. If into serious book collecting then, most certainly, recognize the risks in claiming a likely bargain from an amatuer.
[ edited by figmente on Jan 12, 2001 07:29 PM ]
[ edited by figmente on Jan 12, 2001 07:36 PM ]
posted on January 12, 2001 07:32:25 PM new
I'm trying to decide why this thread is making me so irritated. I'll try to explain to you instead of just making snotty remarks. Probably a lot of my own stubbornness about this issue is ideological. I have a certain personal prejudice about people who are extremely fussy about the outside appearance of things. Me, I couldn't care less what condition books are in. I have over 1000 books in my personal library. Books with rubber bands around them, books sticky with chocolate syrup, broken backed books and books filled with cookie crumbs fill my bookcase. I do not use bookmarks--I dogear. I underline and scotch tape wherever I see something interesting. I put cups of coffee absentmindedly on covers and I use books for doorstops and clipboards. I've been known to use textbooks under my bed when one of the legs broke and I needed to prop the corner up. Books are my best friends. I love some of them as much or more as I love anyone in my life. But I do NOT worship their outside appearance or their "pristine" qualities, I love what they say to me. If I can still read the type, to me, then the book is still in fine condition. No, I don't use this gauge while grading books I sell. But I have sold plenty of books that were falling apart by writing descriptions about how fantastic this *writer* is, or how amazing this *poetry* is. I buy (and sell) books based on CONTENT. When people value books by their condition, I get testy as hell. For heaven's sake that's just the wrapper on the outside of the gift! I don't care if I'm fighting the whole capitalist system on this. Just because some people feel surface things are important does not mean I need to indulge them. It's discouraging to me to see so much emphasis on a book's appearance.
I'm talking about a gut feeling here. Please try to understand it in the same way. I'm not trying to cover every single eventuality, I'm making general statements about how I feel.
Yes, I can understand if you have different standards, yes I can understand that some want to buy for resale, yes, yes, yes. I realize those things. I take care of any books that do not belong to me---i.e. those I buy for resale, library books, and books belonging to other people. I take care of them not because I believe it's actually, genuinely important to do so, but for pragmatic reasons---I'll get fined, lose customers, or get yelled at by friends if I don't. Thus I will make all reasonable efforts keep my books for sale clean and undamaged, handle them carefully, wrap them tightly and securely in layers of bubble wrap and padded envelope, and send them lovingly on their way. But I'll be darned if I'll contribute to the cult of the "perfect surface" any more than I have to by conforming to the more extreme manifestations of this.
I realize these statements will probably piss everyone off and they will be picked apart ad nauseum, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. And that's where my hostility in this thread is coming from.
posted on January 12, 2001 07:46:52 PM new
brighid - I salute you! I'd think you were my book-loving daughter, but she doesn't drink coffee.
My problem with the direction this thread has taken is the absurd attitude taken by some that their way is the only way, and if you are packing books some other way, then you are wrong. That is just ludicrous.
Obviously, most of the people contributing to this discussion have sold a lot of books and gotten them to the buyers in fine shape. I appreciate all the various ideas on how to wrap and package, and certainly don't think that anyone who does it differently than I do is a fool.
[ edited by kudzurose on Jan 12, 2001 07:48 PM ]
posted on January 12, 2001 08:11:33 PM new
brighid868 ~ actually, I'm not going to pick apart your post *and I realize, for the most part, I'm the antagonist in this thread*. Let me explain, what I feel are two issues:
1) I love books. I started collecting when I was 10 years old. I still have the original "Little House" books that my father bought me back then along with my "Narnia" series and many others. All told, 900 in my collection. Then I met my husband, he loved books just as me, and together, our collection grew to double that. Drawback, besides space? He's lost his vision. Do you think he cares what his books look like? No, all he cares about is that there's no marks in them so we can splice the spine off and then I can scan them in w/out areas of the pages turning to images (which do him no good, and is what happens when there's marks w/in the text area of the book). But that's just *his* books for that. My books aren't spliced. They're sitting neatly in my shelves in alphabetical order. I know exactly what's there and exactly where it is. I'm more anal about my books than my husband.. but I *love* them just as much as he does. I enjoy my books as much as he does.
2) When I order something, I expect it to arrive in the exact condition from which it was described in text and image. The book does not have to be perfect when I order it, but I do not expect it to deviate from how it was presented. Why? Because I paid money for that book. How much was paid, was dependant on the condition of the book. If it's got 5 dings in it, I'm not going to spend $4.00 on it...... I may spend $1.00.
If you sell me a book, and from all outward appearances, it is in "excellent" order and I pay you for a book that is in "excellent" order, that's exactly what I expect to recieve in my mailbox. If I recieve anything else, you have stolen from me. I would have gladly paid you $1.00 for the book, but I would have never paid you $4.00.
THAT is what my main arguement is. My arguement is not that people mistreat books or anything like that. My arguement is that I darn well better recieve EXACTLY what I gave you money to recieve both by your written description and the picture you presented. Anything short of that is deception and fraud on your end, both of which could have been avoided with 40 seconds more care and .25 more expense..... of which, I'm pretty sure I would have been happy to give you.
This goes for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I buy, not just books. I am no different from any other buyer. I only want what I paid for and in the condition that it was offered. I don't want to know that just because an item, that is of the exact same type, gets better treatment (packaging), because it's more rare, or more expensive. (in other words, if you can swear by your normal packaging job for a $4.00 book then what's it going to hurt to package a $100 book the exact same way?) All this does, is tell me that a) I better NEVER plan to purchase anything of minimal cost/value from that seller and b) I, as a customer, don't matter one bit, to that seller, unless I'm spending big $. That last point, doesn't sit well with consumers.. and that last point will drive consumers away.
(This post is not insinuating that you *or anyone else* is a deceptive or fraudulant person in any way.. and is not meant to get you, or anyone else, riled up.)
Edited for clarity and spelling.
[ edited by rosiebud on Jan 12, 2001 08:37 PM ]
posted on January 12, 2001 08:36:11 PM new
Brighid...a person after my own heart. Books are for whats in them. I'm selling books so other people will find enjoyment with the contents.
For all the experiments with dryers and books, my two problems with books I have sent happened with books that were shipped in boxes. The first time the box ended up with a gaping hole in the side and one of the books was missing. Second time the empty box ended up at the dead packages office...contents gone who knows where.
I have recieved books that were shipped in the corrugated wrapping stuff (not a box) that were bumped and no longer new looking even though they were brand new when the merchant (not ebay) sent them.
Manila envelope, padded envelope, or box won't save the contents when a truck runs over it.
Boxes get crushed by the post office and the contents can be damaged.
No matter how hard a seller tries, no packing technique is 100% safe. Getting 99.9% of my books to my customer in the condition I said it was in means I am doing it right. For the other 1/10 of 1%...sh*t happens and that is why my packages are insured.
You can't compare shipping breakable china to shipping books. If you ship china with little padding, 90% of the time it will break in shipping, while a well padded china item will survive shipping 99.9% of the time....a book will survive shipping 99.9% of the time whether it is shipped in a padded envelope or a box.
We are all different and as long as our shipping methods work for us that is all that matters. If a buyer wants his book packed a certain way he should ask BEFORE he bids. If the seller doesn't answer or the response is not adequate...don't bid.
posted on January 13, 2001 05:12:08 AM new
I have books in amazingly bad condition ...
books that were in pieces, scribbled in by lunatics, missing pieces of the cover, and with every other flaw you can think of. All these sellers got positive FB because they were accurate in the description AND packed to make sure the book didn't suffer any ADDITIONAL damage at the hands of the USPS and their marvelous mangling machines.
However, when a book does not arrive in the condition that was shown in the pictures or described in the listing, it is either a case of the seller not wanting to take the packing time to ensure that they can deliver what they promised to me, or a seller being less than accurate in the description.
The first shows that they don't care about customers, the second shows that they don't care about the truth.
posted on January 13, 2001 10:09:17 AM new
abacaxi, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. I know you read my post, but your answer indicates you didn't really understand what I wrote at all. My point was lost on you which is most likely my own fault.
posted on January 13, 2001 04:47:17 PM new
abacaxi: I believe that most books should be wrapped & packed as though they are fine china, and you are sending them to an individual whom you wish to impress.
However, to most individuals, books are utilitarian items, and they do not care or notice if corners are bumped, pages foxed, or a dustcover chipped -- and since a book does not shatter to pieces in the manner that an old teapot would, they pack the book as though it is a strong, sturdy item, when in fact, books are very fragile.
Many books I've received from online dealers have corners MASHED upon arrival, and about a third have their spines cocked out of alignment.
I wouldn't dream of ordering an expensive book online.
This mangling and damage of what once were fine books will reduce the supply of good condition copies and subsequently, in the future, prices will rise for such. But most book collectors will NOT order fine editions online, but prefer to purchase them in person, where they can see in person the EXACT condition of the book, and ensure that it reaches their bookcase in the same condition as when bought.
Online booksales for "reader copies" will SOAR -- all sorts of poor condition books which would never have made it onto any bookstore shelves are readily available online, and often their price is substantially less than the shipping. The USED marketplace will do well; but, serious collectors will return to their local 3-D bookdealers for serious acquisitions.
There are so many BIG-BIG-MONEY initiatives to place college textbooks online, and so much R&D going into e-books, much less the long term volunteer efforts of sites like Project Gutenburg that really...... the entire eBiz of buying & selling """books""", (ahem!) will be transformed before decade's end, metamorphosing into a technological wireless wonder.
And thus all arguments, on both sides of the equation, discussed above, will be entirely MOOT.
posted on January 13, 2001 04:48:17 PM new
I sell used books and comic books. All the comics are collectables and many of the used books are also. I don't use bubble envelopes. I use the priority mail evelopes for up to 4 or 5 comic books and box for more than this. Comics are always sold in standard mylar bags with backing boards, then sandwiched between sheets of cardboard whether shipped in envelope or box. Other books are wrapped in brown paper, then usually wrapped in bubble wrap, placed in as close to a proper size box that I can find (almost always recycled), dead space filled with peanuts, box shaken to make sure the item doesn't move around, properly sealed with ample amount of tape, then shipped. I have had very few, if any, complaints, many compliments, and make prompt refund when item does not arrive as described. Very rare, and usually by my mistake in grading the item (yes, I do make mistakes, I am human). The customer is the boss. My job is to please the customer. If I do not, then it is my obligation to make refund. The chance to hear the needs of buyers, as in this thread, should be considered an opportunity, and the buyers should be listened to, in my opinion. They pay the bills.
My two cents, and it probably makes about as much sense.
Nick, the damdude (Hoover Dam, control center operator)
posted on January 13, 2001 09:04:17 PM new
Bill---I don't think so....what sort of collateral do you have???
But I actually just wanted to bump this thread to the top to see if Brigid will bristle some more--it's fun to watch....for someone who doesn't like fussy people--you are awfully fussy about your non-fussiness
duck---books with coffee stains whizzing by my head--duck duck
