posted on January 29, 2001 10:41:22 PM new
Gc2 .......... I wouldn't change it. I have no reason to believe that eBay is going to attempt to *force* all it's users to change to a non email addy for their User ID. Nor do I see them not allowing email addys/links in the auctions.
posted on January 29, 2001 10:55:18 PM new
Well, Reddeer, I've been around here long enough to know you are usually right.
I don't normally become distressed about any of the changes eBay makes...I just roll with them. But the thought of having to conduct email exchanges through them does worry me.
posted on January 29, 2001 10:55:29 PM new
I'm with red on this 100%.
There is a MAJOR problem on ebay with scum-sucking bottom-feeders, and the even lower trash that buy from them.
I say, BLOCK the e-mails from EVERYONE until the auctions are over, and then send the needed info ONLY to the winning bidder and seller.
If you want to put your e-mail addy in your listing, FINE, but I am so tired of all the bull with bottomfeeders and spam, that it makes me wanna puke.
I have stopped bidding on YOU GUY's auctions, because when I do, I get my email box stuffed for the next month with offers.
Example: I bid on a copy of Adobe Acrobat.
Within MINUTES, I received my first spam offering me a "backup" copy for 20 bucks.
Then came the flood.
Over the next 10 days, I received over FIFTY emails, all from different addy's, offering me every kind of illegal, bootlegged, and pirated software you could imagine.
This is just from bidding on ONE item.
When I sell, I get e-mails all the time from customers telling me that they were contacted by someone else that I am a scam, and that they should buy from THEM instead.
Then you have the tell tale signs of the same happening when you get retractions clumped together.
People rather buy an illegal product of course, for a fraction of the price.
I say BLOCK EM ALL!
Another thing is the bogus "user information" crock.
You can get anyones personal info, for ANY reason, which is bullsh*t.
You should NOT be allowed to get a users personal info UNLESS there is a PROBLEM, and then ONLY after a completed auction, and you MUST be either the BUYER or the SELLER.
PERIOD!!!
No wonder why so many people use phoney information on their registration.
posted on January 29, 2001 11:27:44 PM new
gc2 said-
<<<Can't blame you guys for feeling like you do about it, though. Guess I can live with whatever they do. >>>
Until ebay encounters their inevitable technical difficulty with the servers (how many times have you gotten EOA notices a day or two late), and you both lose bids and alienate legitimate bidders who assume you've gotten their request for info and haven't bothered to respond. But of course, since they won't have your email addy, you won't know that because they won't be able to email you (unless you email them).
posted on January 29, 2001 11:40:45 PM new
reddeer said-
<<<Well, after just reading the company line from a CS rep on one of the ebay boards.
Sounds to me like eBay is planning on pulling email links out of auctions as well.>>>
HUH? Could you possibly direct me to this newest piece of nauseating information please?
I can't find it on the eBay Boards.
posted on January 29, 2001 11:53:45 PM new
OH BOY (having just emerged from the shower after ummm getting it all over myself, I shoulda had a barf bag handy like you told me to).
posted on January 30, 2001 04:37:43 AM new
While couching the reason for this change as something to help members by cutting down on Spam, eBay did admit that it will help them "remind" people about their fee avoidance policy. Here's more explanation from the AuctionBytes.com newsflash (reprinted with permission):
January 30, 2001 - eBay Changes Policy: Spam-Free or eBay-Bound?
eBay announced it will change the method of communication between bidders and sellers on its auction service, introducing changes to its "Email Address Request" and "Ask Seller a Question" features. Beginning in mid-February, members not involved in a transaction with another member will be unable to access their email address. They will have to fill out a form that will be forwarded by eBay to the member. The email will include a note that says, in part: "solicitations to buy or sell items outside of eBay violate eBay rules and are not covered by services that protect members such as feedback, insurance, escrow, and dispute resolution. If this is an offer to buy/sell items outside of eBay, please do not participate." eBay acknowledges in its FAQs that this will make it more difficult for potential bidders to detect shill bidding. The reason cited was to prevent email address harvesting. http://pages.ebay.com/community/aboutebay/spam-preview.html
posted on January 30, 2001 04:49:56 AM new
Do you mean that we can't put our e-mail address in our listings? For instance, I don't have a link in mine, I just put something like this:
"If you have any questions, please e-mail me at [email protected] and I will answer right away"
I have always put that in my terms so people could see my e-mail right there and not have to look it up. I hate the idea of not being allowed to do that
posted on January 30, 2001 05:39:32 AM new
It also appears that we will no longer be able to discuss specific auctions on Auction Watch because we won't be able to invite the seller/buyer and copy AW.
posted on January 30, 2001 06:47:54 AM new
I will attempt some clarification on the eMail address as User I.D. link and other comments that have been made about the most recent 'features' associated with this project.
If I understood correctly during our most recent conference call on the topic of Spam / Off site trading etc. and the impending roll-out of additional parts to this entire project... User I.D.s that are eMail addresses will be allowed (for now), BUT eBay has changed the behavior of the cookie within the link.
Up until this portion of the SPAM 1a roll-out, folks with eMail addresses as their I.D.s were accessible by merely clicking on their I.D. and an eMail would pop up.
NOW... when someone clicks on a User I.D. whether it is an eMail address or a Nickname I.D., they will get the eBay eMail FORM.
The form will be needed if they are not currently invoved in a transaction with the other eBay member or have recently become "transaction related" by being either the Seller or Winning Bidder. The eBay form will have a reminder of eBays position on SPAM and off site sales in hopes of discouraging this type of activity.
When eMails are forwarded in this new eBay eMail system, there is a default set to send self a copy. This ensures that you will obtain a copy of the eMail you are sending to another eBay member for your records. It is important that you maintain the default for sending self a copy as eBay WILL NOT HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR EMAIL EXCHANGES!!
If there is a problem with forwarding your eMail to the other member, the system will automatically attempt to resend 3 times (within about 5 minutes) - you will also receive a notice of the status of the eMail in the event of any problems sending.
This should ensure that all correspondence gets through within a timely mannor OR the parties are NOTIFIED of the status of their eMail.
Currently, eMail addresses are allowed as User I.D.s, however eBay is encouraging folks to obtain Nickname User I.D.s as a means of protecting themselves from Unsolicited eMail offers to sell or purchase outside of the eBay format. Also sellers can still provide a live eMail link within the body of their descriptions if they desire, along with a text link to personal websites (as long as they are not selling the same items for less money) keeping in mind that widespread abuse of this privilege COULD result in further measures by eBay to protect it's revenue source by further restricting the appearance of eMail address and website links on their site.
One of the major complaints within my Voices group regarding this particular roll-out was our belief that Buyers and Sellers often have established relationships for trading - with or without eBay. It is my understanding that eBay has officially recognized this and a preview of the FAQs surrounding the eBay eMail system included the verbiage that supports this notion.
"This is not designed to limit non-eBay trade between members who have established relationships with each other."
While Shilling and Bid Sheilding remains a concern... I was also informed that buyers and sellers will still have ways to sort of 'pre-investigate' for this type of behavior (eBay provides tips within a link to FAQ on that) in addition to turning questionable situations over to their safeharbor department.
This eBay eMail program is not something that I have been in favor of (believe me when I say that I've been kicking and screaming the entire way!!) But I do admit that they have really made some changes to the text surrounding this - based on Voices and Other feedback during the development process - and while it will take some "gettin' used to", in the long run eBay is hoping to provide some relief to the community regarding SPAM and Bottom Feeders.
Additionally, the "Ask Seller A Question" link will include the item number and subject. This will certainly be an improvement for sellers! *smile*
One more thing... eBay is NOT conducting some big "sting operation" to trap folks or 'catch them in the act' of forming trades outside of eBay. Honestly... unless they receive a LEGITIMATE complaint from a registered member regarding an incident of SPAM, eBay's pro-active plan for SPAM rests within their recent policy clarification and updated eBay eMail system with policy reminders.
Hope this helps!
- Dottie
Disclaimer: The preceding comments are my own and are accurate to the best of my knowledge - but I want to make it clear that I am NOT an 'official' spokesperson for eBay in any way, shape or form.
posted on January 30, 2001 07:08:41 AM new
My comment (with all due respect) about Dottie's recitation of eBay's stated reasons
for the address request policy-
Yeah, Ummhmm, sure OK.
My comments to the statement that these emails SHOULD get to you expeditiously and properly without eBay reading them-
#1. UMMM, how would that work, if they are including statements about their prohibitions on off-site sales WITH THE FORWARDED EMAILS?
#2. YES, it SHOULD work, but if you think that there WON'T be major problems with getting these emails on time so that you can answer bidders who have legitimate inquiries on your auctions, I have a couple of bridges to sell you, and in separate auctions, some empty boxes to put them in...
Also sellers can still provide a live eMail link within the body of their descriptions if they desire, along with a text link to personal websites
Yes, I was fed the same dribble, but I get the feeling that down the road eBay will decide that for the betterment of the *community* that sellers should not post email links in their auctions.
posted on January 30, 2001 07:51:14 AM new
I received an email from a man in Europe just this morning. He wanted to direct me to his website of rare items after seeing I had a bid on one. What a scumbag. He is about to be Naru (I hope!)
**
This will allow the sellers who actually spend money to list items a fighting chance at a sale.
The poor seller must have paid 50.00 for the feature and double catagories!!
**
Ebay has long since needed to protect us from mystery
bidders who change their minds for reasons we have known, but could never prove.
**
This is a positive change for honest sellers.
posted on January 30, 2001 08:44:35 AM new
REDDEER.....I respect your opinions. I have a question. Do you think that this change will eliminate the need for running private auctions, as some of us have been doing because of the bottom-feeding low-lifes?
posted on January 30, 2001 09:24:42 AM new
Pointy ......... Yes! That's the one major bonus I see with this new rule. Private auctions will no longer be *forced* on sellers who sell in very competitive markets.
Bottom feeders will NOT be able to see your bidders email addy, even if they themselves have placed a bogus bid in an attempt to get the addys.
Those email adys can be had now by jumping through a few hoops, but they won't be in the future.
Even pulling someone's Contact info will NOT give you their email addy.
posted on January 30, 2001 09:30:57 AM new
reddeer,
I share your hope that eBay continues to allow email links and web page links in our auction listings BUT I fear that this will NOT be the case.
To REALLY control off-auction transactions, eBay will have to stop allowing the email and web page links and since this is all about control, it's only a matter of time.
posted on January 30, 2001 09:48:12 AM new
reddeer: I think you are mistaken.
The EbAY eMAIL system will allow for registered members to CONTACT other community members that they are not currently trading with, however, they will be reminded of eBays position regarding SPAM and Off Site deals being negotiated via contact information obtained from the site for the purpose of trading outside of eBays forum. Hopefully, that will be enough to discourage them from actually sending an inquiry that is against eBays policy.
IF the recipient of such an inquiry RESPONDS to the originator, the RESPONSE would then contain the users eMail address...
It will be up to the recipient of any such SPAM to actually REPORT IT, rather than simply respond to the sender.
What this does though, is seriously limit the ability to Spam en masse or bottom feed off of another sellers underbidders without RISK of being turned in for SPAM.
It is my understanding that the "Ask this seller a question" will be the contact method of choice for potential bidders... as it will function much the same way, except it will include the ITEM NUMBER and Title so that the seller knows immediately which listed item the inquiry is regarding.
All CURRENT BIDDERS of an auction will have access to the SELLERS eMail address ONLY and the seller will have access to the Current Bidders eMail addresses DURING THE AUCTION. Once the auction is ended, ONLY the WINNING BIDDER and the SELLER will have easy access to eMail addresses for the purpose of completing the transaction (for a period of time) - all others would then need to use the eBay eMail form for contact.
So... bottom feeders COULD eMail bidders of another sellers auction, but the bottom feeder would definitely being doing it as a "cold contact" and at a higher RISK of having their Unsolicited eMail forwarded to SafeHarbor.
Also, even though eBay says they won't read the email generated through their online form, my guess is most of the bottom feeders will know the potential is there, as the initial email is generated through an eBay server. So hopefully that fact alone will discourage most of them?
posted on January 30, 2001 11:09:30 AM new
Actually, I specifically asked the PTB at eBay about that and they claim that the potential is NOT there. They have said that they will NOT be storing eMail etc. or have access to the exchanges. This is why the default will be set for sending self a copy so that folks will be able to maitain a record of their own correspondences if they desire.
SPAM complaints would have to be forwarded with full headers by the person with the complaint in order for safeharbor to investigate. (Again, this is my understanding to the best of my knowledge, based on what I've been told)
posted on January 30, 2001 11:19:32 AM new
Well, it's about time eBay did something, though I, as others, question the exact motives, given the "notification preferences" mess, among other things.
I used to get next to no spam (6 pieces in nineteen months), until I started getting 100 times that rate, almost all of which seem like eBay-derived. Almost a year later, that still seems to account for 95-99% of the spam I get, so eBay still seems to be my only point of being harvested.
I've been hoping for months eBay would limit access of bidders' addresses solely to the seller of items they're bidders on, as I feel the vast majority of email address requests for bidders not coming from the bid-on items' sellers were coming from spammers and bottom feeders.
I never said anything about sellers' addresses, though, knowing they'd generally want easy contact from anyone potentially interested in bidding, and I didn't think there was a way for eBay to help sellers avoid spammers harvesting eBay for seller addresses without hindering sellers' "openness" to other eBay members.
So eBay did satisfy my hopes for bidder addresses, but went further than I'd have thought for seller addresses, meaning as a bidder, I'll end up having to trust that eBay will deliver messages in a timely manner, which at this point, I frankly don't, at least not reliably. I'd still prefer to contact sellers more directly.
As to email and web links that sellers can put on their auctions, I'm not sure. While such links could pull some business off eBay, the appeal of placing items on eBay in the first place, whether exclusively or in hopes of promoting a separate business, would still seem like money in eBay's pocket. If unable to promote their own possibly high-volume business, some sellers might not bother with eBay.
Some of these separate business themselves spam, however, and even with the new system, likely see placing a few items on eBay just to get bidders' addresses more than anything, like how many of those later night ads for cheesy merchandise are just ways of getting people's information so they can be buried under catalogs of similar cheesy products (some such ads have gotten bold enough to indicate the connection, telling everyone they'll be "enrolled" in some "advantage" program or another, meaning catalogs). This is a different matter, but one that would not be easy for eBay to prevent regardless.
After the "notification preferences," or heck, for that matter, bringing in Doubleclick last year, I don't believe eBay does things strictly for true privacy purposes, so I too have some of the same suspicions on motives. It also strikes me as hypocritical that eBay complains about sellers putting email or web links that might perhaps pulling some business off eBay, while eBay itself still uses banner ads on eBay, which may also pull some bidders off eBay.
Still, in the end, the decision appears it will benefit me and other bidders getting spammed by bottom feeders / direct marketers going around eBay and harvesting addresses, but I am not sure I like how eBay is mixing several semi-related but different things in the same "spam" pot. As to whether the lessening of spam of bottom feeding brings back more bidding on eBay (which would benefit sellers), I couldn't say what the numbers would be; though for myself, as a bidder, I'll be happy to see most or all of the spam I get decline (though now that my current address is already on some lists, it will never disappear). I haven't been bidding as much in the last year, partly over disgust with things like Doubleclick and "preference settings" (and downtime), but partly over how I know each bid I make is likely to draw continued or more spam.
As a bidder, my evaluating whether to bid has become a lengthy list of steps, some of which are either necessary or good to do, some that I wouldn't have to bother with if all direct marketing were completely opt-in (i.e. no spam):
Is the item of general interest?
Is the particular item in good condition?
How often does this appear on eBay?
How good is the user's FB?
Does the seller have anything else of interest?
If so, do I want to bid on any, or would I rather wait try with just one item first?
Anything else trigger gut feelings on the seller?
Given all the above, how much would I want to proxy?
Is the user so high volume they may be a business engaged in direct marketing?
Do I really want this item enough to bear additional spam my bid might bring from the seller or others?
I don't know if the second last concern could ever be eliminated, but I'll be happy not to have to worry much about the last concern. The rest will remain the nature of online auctions or using caution in regard to them.
Sorry the length; I just found this a surprising and interesting development.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
SPAM complaints would have to be forwarded with full headers by the person with the complaint in order for safeharbor to investigate
Actually eBay is going to be implementing an online function that will allow users to forward the Spam to eBay, via their online forms. The user will simply have to click on a link, check off a box, [Auction Interference - Spam - Offer to buy sell outside of eBay - or Harassment] and voila, it's off to eBay.
posted on January 30, 2001 12:08:30 PM new
Maybe ebay will allow email addresses toi be given on me pages. Most sellers already have a link to websites on their me pages that tell all about them. It wouldn't be too hard to add something into your auction telling people that they can check out your webpage to find out more info about you.
