posted on February 2, 2001 05:07:34 PM new
I think the point is that Ebay has no business what-so-ever in reading, scanning, or having the ability to choose for me or my business, what I will, in the end, be able to receive or not receive. This is walking the thin line of invasion of privacy as far as I am concerned. What if the dang servers go down for days on end like in the past. There go our questions, out in la la land until Ebay gets their functionality working again. I think they have opened a serious can of worms on this one. What is the addy I write to? Any special department? How can we go about getting a legal opinion on this? (I know, some will say we can choose or not choose to use their service, but that still does not alter the fact that they are intercepting email directed to us.)
posted on February 2, 2001 05:50:53 PM new
I have a link from ebay to my homepage...on that homepage is my email addy. Also, I plan to put the addy in each description saying "Have Questions? Email me {here} and have the HERE clickable, and in my ABOUT ME page.
posted on February 2, 2001 05:57:06 PM new
Well, I was under the impression that Ebay was doing this to prevent
selling after the auction. For example, if an item doesn't sell,
Ebay wants to prevent sales after the auction.
Why should Ebay be concerned with how much spam we have?
posted on February 2, 2001 06:01:58 PM new
here is the announcement from the AB:
Date: 01/29/01
Time: 16:01:51 PST
***Preview to Upcoming Changes to Email Address Request and Ask Seller a Question Features***
In a few weeks, we will be changing the "Email Address Request" and "Ask Seller a Question" features on eBay. We are doing so based on community concerns about email address harvesting (also called "collecting" ) and the resulting unsolicited, commercial email (spam). Spam-related issues are a top cause of customer complaints and we are dedicated to fixing the problem. In addition, these changes will give us the opportunity to inform you about eBay's policy regarding offers to buy and sell outside of eBay based on information obtained from eBay listings or bidding activity.
If you are not involved in a transaction with the other eBay member, the new Contact an eBay Member and Ask Seller a Question features will allow you to send email to other users through an email forwarding system. In compliance with our Privacy Policy, eBay will not store a copy of your message and will not read these emails.
These changes will not affect how sellers and bidders in successful transactions email each other. In closed listings, sellers and winning bidders will still be able to request each other's email addresses. In open listings, sellers will be able to request all bidder email addresses as they do today.
For a preview of the upcoming changes as well as Frequently Asked Questions, please enter the following link into your browser:
http://pages.ebay.com/community/aboutebay/spam-preview.html
Please note that the changes will happen first on the U.S. site and will follow in upcoming months on our international sites.
Sincerely,
eBay
(edited to remove an errant smiley that popped up)
posted on February 2, 2001 06:10:57 PM new
These is a copy of our concerns to eBay:
We have a number of concerns over your recent announcement changing the availability of email addresses.
The first concern is that it will cost us time in notifying customers if we have to go through some kind of form and not just click through on the listing page. We don't use our registered eBay address (AOL based) to notify customers. We use an ISP based email address which gives us redundancy and also a superior mail client from the AOL's. If we don't get a response as occurs rarely but on occasion due to email domain blocking we'll use AOL. It has worked very successfully for us. BTW we get much more spam on this non-registered address than the registered eBay address which leads us to doubt eBay's motives.
Second we archive all email between customer and ourselves for legal reasons. For that email to be legally valid we need all headers, etc. including originating address and not some middleman's such as eBay's headers.
Third we've learned to use the customer's email address to ascertain the reliability of the customer, their geographic region, and also if they are international. We've learned that buyers with corporate domains are usually 99.5% reliable, those with independent ISP's a little less and AOL'ers and web based email with easily obtainable addresses less yet. To some extent we handle late payers based upon their email address. (Yes we email profile)
Fourth we've been eBaying since 1997. Our eBay registered email address gets very little SPAM and what it gets is easily deleted with the click of a mouse. As primarily a seller we look at the the supposed motive for this change (a reduction in SPAM) of minimal benefit and potentially costly to us in other ways. Personally we think the motive is not SPAM but to prevent any direct seller - bidder communication which is absurd.
Fifth it concerns us when a significant change in the customer - client relationship with eBay is first mentioned in the news media yesterday 2-1-1 and then not addressed directly by eBay. When we first saw this yesterday on a news station we immediately went to the announcement board and saw nothing. We still see nothing. The only source is an obscure link mentioning a change when we tried to get the email address of a buyer.
Bottom line if this change does what we think it will based upon cursory examination and gut feeling, we are as they say "out of here". The recent 60% increase in listing fees for 10 day auctions of low priced items was of concern. This latest change is the icing on the cake. We expect business partners such as eBay to be an asset and help in making us more efficient and not use some lame excuse of preventing SPAM when the real motive is to keep us at arms length from customers.
Sorry for the wordiness but eBay's tactics of always doing what's best for themselves while trying to say it is in their customer's interest is as they say "a crock".
posted on February 2, 2001 06:29:46 PM new
This for consisderation by all, especially the people who think the email addy thing is being done for the users' good. There is something FAR more insidious and dangerous that eBay allows (and I really mean dangerous) that if they REALLY were looking out for its members in the manner they claim, would have been gone LONG ago...
With the new email policy that is purportedly in place to protect users (from spam), unless a seller has his/her email addy in his description, or his/her email addy is his/her UserId, the mail would have to go through eBay's servers. In the current Contact Info Policy, ANY eBay user (whether he or she is involved in a transaction or not) can request ANY other eBay user's phone number and name (on file). AND, if the requestee's info is NOT accurate, he/she can be SUSPENDED for falsifying that info... I can't even BEGIN to express how repugnant this is to me. eBay purports to want to "protect" users, so what does eBay protect them from, even taking their explanations completely at face value? Spam, which is exteremely annoying, but CAN be deleted. What does eBay NOT protect them from? Someone harvesting PERSONAL information such as a phone number, and using it in any of a HUNDRED ways OFF eBay which can range from simple phone harrassment (which is against the LAW, not eBay rules), to an unscrupulous person or criminal being able to get TONS of further info on an eBay user (through databases, through reverse phone directories, etc., ad nauseum, HECK, there are even some free sites at which you input a phone # and get complete instructions on how to get to the owner of the phone number's house/business, along with detailed maps), and being able to commit both CYBER and IN-PERSON CRIMES up to and including off-line FRAUD and MURDER (no, this is NOT exaggeration, information obtained by harvesting a person's phone number on the Internet HAS resulted in murder).
If a bigger contradiction in principle has EVER existed, I invite anyone to show me what it is. I need someone who can explain to me why (for instance) ebay CLAIMS that hiding your email address from people not involved in your transaction is for your own good, but allowing ANYONE WHO WANTS to get your contact info AT ANY TIME is still allowed??? And REMEMBER, a person can register for ebay as a buyer WITHOUT A CREDIT CARD, and therefore WITHOUT PROOF OF IDENTITY, and they can do so JUST to pull contact info, then POOF disappear into cyberland...
posted on February 2, 2001 06:57:04 PM new
corrdogg
Thanks for your post.
So, we have to send our mail through
Big Brother. Even if I display my email
address on my ad, I will not be able to
see the bidders email address.
I understand that some sellers are
routinely advertising on Ebay and then
negoitiating with bidders to sell outside
the auction. I suppose this action is
directed toward cramping their style.
posted on February 2, 2001 07:16:29 PM new
No, Helen – you will still be able to see e-mail and e-mail directly if you are involved in the auction:
“These changes will not affect how sellers and bidders in successful transactions email each other. In closed listings, sellers and winning bidders will still be able to request each other's email addresses. In open listings, sellers will be able to request all bidder email addresses as they do today. ”
It is only if you ARE NOT involved in the auction that you will have to go through the forwarding procedure.
People are making this out to be w-a-y worse than it will be. I don’t think it is great, but I also know from experience that it is coming in spite of all the outcries and letters from users. I don't think that this is a "deal-breaker" and it would not make me leave. But for those who DO view it that way - we will have to adapt or leave.
I plan to adapt.
(edited for clarification in the last paragraph - is that clear now?)
posted on February 2, 2001 08:08:37 PM new
corrdogg> Are you then saying that Ebay perhaps might be doing this so that it will increase bidding action on auctions, again for our own good? People can still bid on an auction to have the right to see the sellers addy so if you lose the bid, you can contact them later and make your own deal if there is more then one item. People that want something, will still do that, you know! This is the next claim that I see Ebay making. The simple fact is that they want to police what is said between anyone that talks to one another using their venue which I think is like the mailman wanting me to re-paint my mailbox to his favorite color because he delivers my mail. Ebay is using this tact because they want as much of the pie as possible, thwarting anyone from selling off site, anything they may have in their inventory that at any time might have been listed on their venue. Just Ebay protecting their bottom line, and they will continue to do so until we might just as well load up our inventory, and u-haul it to them and dump it in their laps!
posted on February 2, 2001 08:22:05 PM newI plan to adapt
I plan to leave my email address as my ID. When eBay forces me to change to a user name ID I'll have clickable links in my auctions where they can email me.
I don't believe that eBay is making these changes because of spam for the sellers and buyers. I believe eBay is making these changes so any contact between buyers and sellers has to go through them. I understand why they'd want this. I don't understand why they expect me to believe they are doing this in my best interest.
posted on February 2, 2001 08:32:26 PM new
Oh, I know exactly what they want to do. I’m not saying that I agree with it, just that once they announce it that it is inevitable.
Ebay wants to protect revenue - in this case fees that may be lost by off-site deals. Of course it is cloaked as an “anti-spam” measure, but we all know what it is really about. Money. That is all it is ever about.
As for the analogy about painting your mailbox: I believe it would be more like the mailman reading your mail and then telling you what it said.
posted on February 2, 2001 08:34:54 PM newcorrdogg: Thanks for the AB update. Yes I missed that. Also I missed the post yesterday when looked yesterday after I heard it on the news. Apparently I didn't go back far enough to the 29th for some reason.
BTW here are several other negatives (in our opinion) to this new plan that I failed to mention previously.
) Email attachments will not be permitted on correspondence through the eBay system. We often send an additional jpeg if requested which will now become more of a hassle and require a workaround and multiple emails.
) I trust the reliability of my ISP's email. Now we'll have to depend on Ebay's reliability which has been and still is suspect.
Still what bothers me the most is the BS about this additional hassle being in the "community interest" when they know that isn't the true reason. But of course nothing is done about restricting availability of new and multiple IDs or contact info as tentwentytwo mentioned. But then multiple IDs are in eBay's interest as they give an illusion of more registered users, same as AOL has done for years.
[ edited by surrrfurtom on Feb 2, 2001 08:36 PM ]
posted on February 2, 2001 08:44:37 PM new
Yeah, I don’t like it either, but I know that they (eBay)aren’t going to do what I like.
As I mentioned though, there are other ways to get your e-mail in front of people who need it. Once they have yours, you’ll have theirs. Life will be as we have known and loved it and we can delete all that SPAM with a click.
I already embed all my graphics in my description and just put a standard .jpeg in the picture line, so I’ll just consider putting something like this in:
You may feel that I don't know what I'm talking about, but I have worked on the other end and am very familiar with eBay policies and procedures having been a former employee.
Last year eBay won a huge lawsuit against one of the major offenders of spam "Reverse Auction". Ever since, people have ramped up the use of spam, and if you don't know how bad it is, go bid on a beanie baby just once. You will be overwhelmed in unwanted email.
Also, eBay does not monitor your emails, this is simply a way to route emails through a CGI server, which is much like emailing it directly.
This will not delay your emails only make it easier and more protected much like Yahoo Auctions currently does.
posted on February 3, 2001 12:14:25 AM new
I haven't decided what side of the fence I am on regarding this one, but here is another concern this change addresses:
posted on February 3, 2001 03:36:43 AM new
“...if you don't know how bad it is, go bid on a beanie baby just once. You will be overwhelmed in unwanted email.”
posted on February 3, 2001 05:18:33 AM new
If ebay wants all questions to go through their servers then i'll just leave. I currently type my email addy in all my adds.
I like my username "lovepotions" I am lovepotions everywhere on the net except Yahoo (it got nabbed befre i tried to get it) To me its a brand name. Look for lovepotions on any auction site and you find ME. Your username is your brand name. your email is just the avenue of communication.
My EOA announcement emails come days after the auction has ended. I have to just go to the auction details, get the winners email send them a letter, get paid AND SHIP before Ebay sends me their end of auction announcements sometimes.
You can't rely on ebays servers to get those questions to you.
Yahoo auctions require you to ask seller questions through their server. But then again as much as we #*!@ and moan about Yahoo current movements and actions you have to admit they have superior technology.
Ebay is not in any way technological pioneer of any sorts. They are ONLY the biggest auction site. That is all they are, Big and popular.
What if that bidder question was asked right before one of Ebay's now twice weekly CRASHES!! You might not get that question and that potential customer will feel ignored and unimportant.
http://www.lovepotions.net
posted on February 3, 2001 06:28:28 AM new
And for all those who say that eBay's User Agreement is some kind of Ten Commandments thingie, and should be followed by users in all cases (the "if you don't like it, get outta town" attitude), apparently eBay doesn't believe that THEY need to follow their User Agreement-
"eBay is only a Venue."
UMM HMM.
"we are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers."
Guess you are now. Bigtime.
#3.2 "We also encourage you to communicate directly with potential trading partners."
That's a LOL. You do? So you make it harder to do so, and put yourself in a position to monitor those communications. Good job of encouragement.
#6. "Your Information. You are solely responsible for your Information, and we act as a passive conduit for your online distribution and publication of your Information."
"PASSIVE"? That's funny, I thought attaching spam to our email is more like ACTIVE. But what do I know.
#6.2 "eBay has right to exercise the copyright and publicity right"
So you're claiming ownership of emails through you? Or what exactly does that babble mean?
#15 "No Agency. You and eBay are independent contractors, and no agency, partnership, joint venture, employee-employer or franchisor-franchisee relationship is intended or created by this Agreement."
Many of us, who have been on eBay for years, are KNOWN to most of our customers BY whatever ID or E-Mail address we chose in the beginning. I have been know by my e-mail address for 5 years – and to me I feel it makes my buyers feel safe to know I’m not in disguise. (Seriously, please, no offense to those who chose to use a hidden ID, just the way I see it.)
THIS is ridiculous!.....How can a former customer search for my items when they don't know my "new" ID? Yes, I have kept lists of customers over the years, but not a complete list.
I have used my e-mail address as my ID from get go, and have never had a problem with eBay Spam - and what few I have gotten, I figure that is what the delete button is for.
It should be MY choice if I choose to change my ID or not.
posted on February 3, 2001 07:58:06 AM new
I've used my email address as my user id for 3 years. As a seller, I figure the easier I make it for a prospective buyer to communicate with me, the better. Do I get spammed?
You bet, probably 50 times a day. They all get deleted quickly, and it's a cost I gladly put up with. But if some one doesn't want the junk mail, I understand. If ebay makes me stop displaying my email address, I will think very hard about my relationship with them (3 years of selling)
posted on February 3, 2001 08:26:38 AM new
Okay..my .000000125 cents worth
I am [EagerBeader] on Ebay and I am also [[email protected]] on Ebay.
I made them both very similar so my customers hopefully can find me.
If they force me to change my email UserID..I will..I will change it to [beads_at_eagerbeader_dot_com]. There an identifiable email address with no @ or .
Or the idea with the .jpeg with your email in it is good too.
I don't usually get spam from ebay users...except for the ones from Ebay or the folks they sell my email address to.
