posted on February 26, 2001 08:22:09 PM new
First, I state my rates VERY clearly on my auction. Second, london4 (anything to do with Housemartins?) your making a circular argument. Other posters on this board compared it with buying at a retail store and I was stating that buying from ebay is more similar to buying from Amazon then it is from buying from Target. Amazone has repeat inventory, I do not. I usually cary only 1 copy per item I sell.
PLUS, YOU CANT BUY COLLECTABLES AT Eddie Bauer's website!!!
Your arguments are not making any sense. Once again, should I ship things free then?
Oh, BJ, where did you find those packages? So you are selling some of your videos for $100? Damn, what are you selling? I sell mostly rare music videos that sell for $50-$100. Occasionally I sell cheaper videos as well but mostly expensive stuff. I wont ship it in a loose paded envelope. It needs to be packaged right. I have rare videos and things and I am not about to risk them just because a bidder wants to save $1. Most of your arguments make no sense because it depends on what you sell on how you will package your items.
If your selling "Pokeman cards" and I am selling Kenny Rogers playing cards from 1980, I am going to put a little more money in my packaging because I want the item protected properly.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:27:59 PM new
IMO, it was even worse when priority mail was $3.20, and sellers would say that shipping was $3.20...but neglect to mention they were sending it first class for 55 cents and keeping the rest.
It may not be a scam, and it may be technically accurate, but charging $4.00 for shipping (and not mentioning handling) and then sending the item for under a dollar just seems wrong to me, and I don't do it.
I sell myself, and I've tried to keep postage in bounds for my buyers by offering first class or media mail whenever possible. I pack very carefully, and reuse materials that are in good shape whenever I can. When I do buy new materials, they are a cost of doing business and I deduct them as such. Ditto with toner, gas, and all the other consumables involved in shipping. As for my time, I consider that paid for by the profit I make on the items I sell.
When I list my items, I give the final shipping cost and the method I'll use. If it seems reasonable, I will offer the buyer a choice, but usually there is only one best and least expensive method. I do round up a bit (i.e., $1.50 instead of $1.30 for a one-pound media mail package), mostly for convenience in keeping track of things.
When I buy, I do avoid bidding on items that I feel the seller is overcharging on shipping...unless the deal otherwise is too good to pass up. I know what it costs to ship a silver spoon, for example, and it isn't $4.00. I will occasionally write to a seller to get shipping details, but like most of the rest of you, I find this a hassle and usually don't bother. I bet sellers lose a LOT of business because their auctions either don't mention shipping costs or they are inflated. If I don't like this as a buyer, I certainly am not about to do it as a seller.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:29:33 PM new
This is a waste of time. I agreed with everyone and even said I would adjust my shipping rates. I thought this board was for productive chatting with fellow sellers and bidders but its a place for bidders and sellers to argue all day and its not worth my time.
Then you have people like doninpa or whateve her/his name is critisze me for what I pay for packging so I ask her/him to give me a stock number and place to buy cheaper packages and he/she convienently misses that question. I wont even argue anymore because its a waste of time. I clearly stated my shipping rates for priority and people still keep saying it costs $2! It DOES NOT!!! PRIORITY COSTS $3.50! Even if I found $0.40 mailers the shipping rate would still be $4 which brings us back to the subject of this thread!!!!
Reptiles and Samarui...
posted on February 26, 2001 08:32:10 PM new
If exorbitant handling fees are so acceptable, why do sellers scam buyers by charging $4.00 to ship and then sending it First class for .77? If handling fees are so acceptable to everyone, then why don't these sellers state "Shipping .77 cents, handling/packing/labels/boxes/time 4.33"???
Why don't they??
BECAUSE THEIR SORRY PATOOTS WOULD GET NO BIDS, THAT'S WHY!!!
If they said "Shipping 77 cents, handling 30 cents" that's different. MOST PEOPLE have no problem with 30 cents 50 cents, a buck.... It's when it becomes FREAKIN' THREE DOLLARS OR FOUR DOLLARS that most people start feeling they're getting SCREWED!!! That's a car wash, a movie rental, or a happy meal. Don't you see the difference?
I want the sellers who are whining about being called on the carpet for outrageous handling to start breaking down their handling fees and making it clear what it is we're paying for.
If you don't like the idea of doing that----why? If you have nothing to hide then why not spell it out? Let the buyer know you're charging for every label and every strip of tape, and your valuable time. If there's nothing wrong with doing that, there should be nothing wrong with stating it right up front, right?
So do it.
Take a page from mail order. People will often pay handling at Amazon or Eddie Bauer with no argument because it says right there on the catalog page or web page: Shipping 4.95 for ****Priority Mail****, 9.95 for ****Express Mail*** (or whatever.)
I've never paid 4.95 for shipping from a major company and gotten an item in a 10 cent bubble mailer an a 55 cent stamp on it.
If you had a shop, would you charge each person who used the toilet for toilet paper? why not? it's a cost of doing business....so why not? well because you should be making enough at your real business to pay for stuff like that. if you can't do that with ebay then sell something else.
i predict people who charge unreasonable handling (and that's unreasonable to the BUYER---it ALL makes sense to the sellers, I'm sure [snicker]) and don't document why they are charging it will be the subject of buyer rejection as more and more buyers become savvy to the online sales world. it can't happen too soon for me.
an informed buyer is a valuable buyer--at least to me.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:35:48 PM new
DIGITALMASTER:
Breathe deep. You're in the right. If your customers are happy, who cares! Your charges look 100% in line and reasonable.
I recently ordered $220 worth of quality shipping materials, price-checked 4 times against 4 other vendors. Got hit with $80 shipping because of the UPS oversize charge for the packing peanut boxes. Live and learn. At least I'm not whining about it and I've since reordered other supplies from the same vendor.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:36:40 PM new
Ethical (?) Question:
You charge handling to cover the "costs" associated with shipping a package. You buy an item for $8, and you make 4 to 10 times that when it sells.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:38:15 PM new
why do you guys even argue with these morons? most of the sellers here clearly laid out their costs breaking down everything and these morons keep pounding the same stupid useless point! your forgetting that the people on this board are the same type of people that vote for eminem or backstreet boys as artist of the year. get over it!
One Step...
Two Steps...
posted on February 26, 2001 08:51:47 PM newOh, BJ, where did you find those packages? So you are selling some of your videos for $100? Damn, what are you selling? I sell mostly rare music videos that sell for $50-$100. Occasionally I sell cheaper videos as well but mostly expensive stuff. I wont ship it in a loose paded envelope. It needs to be packaged right. I have rare videos and things and I am not about to risk them just because a bidder wants to save $1. Most of your arguments make no sense because it depends on what you sell on how you will package your items.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I was selling $100 videos. I used that figure from your previous post. And if I was fortunate enough to sell a video for $100, I'd use DC. Otherwise, no.
Well, it's your opinion then that I'm not packaging my videos right, but since they get there safely, and all of my books as well, I guess my packaging must be right, at least for me and my customers.
And I don't understand that bit about the argument part. I wasn't arguing with you at all. I was under the impression you were interested in saving some money on packing materials. But if that's not the case, so be it. My misunderstanding then.
But, as someone else has already suggested, take a deep breath. It's not really a big deal.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:51:59 PM new
Excuse ME, I am 99% of the time a SELLER. Some of us DO have ethics and DO list ANY extra charges so our buyers can SEE what they are paying for. And DON'T like the shenanigans of people who charge $4.00 and mail for .77---That makes ALL of us look bad.
digital master you are taking general comments way too personally. every post in this thread is not directed at you. you need to get over thinking every single comment applies to you. if your stuff is irreplaceable then fine i would pay a reasonable amount of handling but MUCH of what people here are talking about is NOT about irreplaceable items, not about your items, it is about stuff like a mass market Beanie Baby shipped for $7.00 (3.50) or a post card being shipped for 3.50 (55 cents). Do you think those costs are justified when they do NOT go into shipping confirmation, packaging etc.? Give us your opinion on what does NOT apply to you because that's MY issue. IMO you have broken down your costs very well, now just put that in your auctions and I'll have no problem with you.
posted on February 26, 2001 08:54:05 PM new
Everyone knows shipping isn't free. Supplies cost money, gas, etc. all cost money. Buyers don't have a problem paying a shipping fee just give us a breakdown--tell us how much is for postage and how much is for "other." Why are sellers so unwilling to give a breakdown? Sellers don't seem to have a problem listing all the payment methods they will or won't accept. If you're charging $6.00 to ship an item, don't make the buyer email you to ask if this is priority with insurance. Say in your TOS that you're mailing first class, no insurance and the excess is handling.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:02:37 PM new
Does the grocery store give you an itemized breakdown of the cost for a gallon of milk? Mine doesn't- maybe I should ask before buying?
posted on February 26, 2001 09:07:59 PM new
Actually I do explain my shipping in detail as I did on this board. If someone is charging $4 to ship something for $0.77 yess, that is unreasonable and I would never bid on their item! Exactly. Why would you bid if you don't like their rates? Why not go to another seller? I am taking my breath now.. having other problems... SEE OTHER POST...
Reptiles and Samarui...
posted on February 26, 2001 09:22:03 PM new
I'm surprised to see this thread won't go away. Ridiculous topic, IMO...
As Jay and I have said before here, we are continually amazed at how sensitive sellers are to unreasonable complaints of buyers. Sellers, you are ENTITLED to earn a living. You are entitled to collect a handling fee to compensate for your time and energy. Yes, you should post the fee in your ad, but no further elaboration is necessary.
We sell used music CDs. S/h is $2.50 for the first one and $1.25 for each additional one. Sometimes they're little lightweight items in cardboard sleeves that cost 55c in stamps to mail. Regular CDs generally cost $1.21 in postage stamps to send. The balance covers our costs, including, but not limited to, the physical supplies, our leased shipping facility, our full time shipping clerks, their benefits and insurance, etc etc etc. I would not dream of offering a breakdown of the postage and the handling charges on our individual ads, it would be too complicated and tedious. You pay $2.50. You don't like it? Buy elsewhere, or bid less with me to offset whatever amount you think I'm overcharging. If you lose the auction to someone who doesn't object to the s/h fee? Well, there you go...
The math for us is pretty simple. We list 3000 CDs/week on eBay. Minimum bid is 1c. There is no reserve price. Virtually everything sells. Some people buy 40 CDs or so weekly through us. We charge S/H for 40 CDs (shipped at one time) of $2.50 plus (39x$1.25), or just over $50. The actual postage on this box will be around $20. Are we overcharging? Noooooo, and our fees will not change are not negotiable. Remember, gang, we are running auctions here. I would RATHER sell the CD to someone at $9.00 (plus $2.50 s/h) then for $9.50 to someone who won't cover my costs on the shipping of this item. Thus, we charge $1.25 for EACH additional item, regardless of size of the order.
The example we use, when asked, runs something like this. Since our fixed costs for the s/h end of our business (over-and-above the cost of the postage stamps alone) runs over $2,300/week. I WILL recover that cost, thank you. We start our auctions at 1c with no padding in the pricing to cover our expenses. Let's say some guy won ALL 3,000 auctions, backed his truck up to our shipping location and picked up all the CDs himself. We would still collect the handling portion of the sale (approximately 75c/disc). I STILL have to pay rent for that week, I STILL have to pay my salaried staff, I STILL have to pay for insurance and utilities, etc etc.
eBay sellers who want to 'make it' there must realize that this IS a business, and we MUST cover your costs. When I see an ad from an ebay seller who is proud of charging 'actual postage only' I simply shake my head. I know MY time is worth something, I guess this seller doesn't think much of his.
I don't mean to sound heavy-handed here but, jeepers! people, there's a reason EVERY OTHER BUSINESS ON THE INTERNET charges shipping & handling charges, and it's NOT because they're all crooks.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:23:35 PM newIf a seller states $4.95 Shipping and Handling it's none of the bidders business how much goes to what part. If you don't like it don't bid.
It is the bidder's business unless the seller is guaranteeing, like Amazon, for example, that the buyer will receive the item and it will not be damaged. If the buyer wants the item quickly, with the above terms the buyer now has to email the seller to ask if they need to pay additional money for priority and/or insurance or if these services are included in the $4.95 fee.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:34:38 PM new
>>Most people do NOT feel they are being "freaking screwed" because they paid $3 or $4.00 for s/h. As a consumer I regularly get charged 10-30% of the order in s/h charges.<<
I have no PROBLEM with 3.00 for SHIPPING....I have a PROBLEM with 3.00 for HANDLING!!! They are NOT the same thing!
When I pay 4.00 for shipping I don't want to see a 55 cent sticker on a 10 cent (oh gee, a 50 cent even, for you nitpickers!) bubble wrap envelope! Why the heck is this so hard to understand? That's a ripoff!
>>Only a child with a limited weekly allowance would have a problem paying 3 0r 4 bucks. <<
Or someone on a limited income, like me, or someone with TONS of money but who hates paying for something he doesn't get...
talk about a nasty remark. You deserve yourself. what is your buying name because I really don't EVER want to buy from you.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:43:08 PM new
Jeepers, my time is worth something too, but luckily the items I sell make a nice enough profit that my time is paid for.
You're certainly entitled to make as much profit as you want, and as one of the most selling people on Ebay, I know you do make a good profit. But I don't agree with your tactics, despite your success. The fact that you can get people to regularly and cheerfully pay you shipping of $50 on something that actually costs you $20 to ship only means that there are a lot of dumb buyers in the world, not that your practice is ethical or fair.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:53:17 PM new
Priority mail is a scam anyway - I only use it on items that way about a pound or more. Also, if the person lives near you (I am in LA, so I get a lot of bidders within 50 miles) parcel post is a two day delivery for a fraction of the price - For example, a 5 pound box going 50 miles costs $7.55 Priority Mail (1 day) and $3.66 Parcel Post (2 days)
Personally, I don't care if the buyer charges $4.00 and it cost them 55 cents in postage to send. What I do is when I bid on an auction, I look at the bid price, and add the shipping cost. If it is more than I want to spend, I don't bid. If it is reasonable, I bid.
Digitalmaster - I think your shipping rates are reasonable, if you send via Priority Mail. You obviously care that the material arrives there safely. However, I think you are overpaying if it costs you 25 cents per label. I used stamps.com for a while, and got avery labels that were much cheaper than a quarter each, and they worked fine.
These days, I actually like to use real stamps. I find using stamps.com to be more labor intensive, and it costs money just to use the service. Most items I ship are under a pound, so that works for me. If it is over a pound, it is a pain since you need to go to the post office.
As far as labels go, you can order priority mail stamps on-line, and use the free labels from the post office. I actually designed my own invoice file using FileMaker Pro, and all I do is use a scisors to cut off a portion of the bottom of the invoice, and I have my shipping label all set! Just use packing tape to put it on the package. It's very quick, and I do not need to spend time addressing the label by hand, which would be a disaster since I have never written very legibly.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:53:44 PM new
Marie, on your auctions I would be the one emailing to ask if the $2.50 included insurance unless your TOS state "$2.50 s/h, insurance not included. I didn't always question sellers so closely, but I only have to be told once upon receiving a damaged item "If you wanted to know if insurance is included in s/h, you should have asked, I don't guarantee safe arrival unless you ask and pay for insurance."
For you it is a business and of course you want to cover your costs. However, there are many "hobby" sellers on ebay, myself included, who are happy to sell our items that we want to unload and if I wrap one or two items a month I don't mind charging "actual postage."
posted on February 26, 2001 09:54:52 PM new
Brighid, yes, we're one of the largest (volume) sellers on ebay but probably not one of the most profitable. Sometimes, perhaps....
... To repeat, though: I WILL have my fixed shipping costs covered. Every time, every item. Each night we put up 440 auctions that we spent close to $2000 or so on with an AGGREGATE minimum bid of $4.40. No Reserve. We roll the dice nightly on $2000. I routinely and regularly accept losses on our auctions that fail. I do not accept a dime of loss on our fixed (controllable) costs. Our practice is ethical AND fair AND, quite simply, it's math.
posted on February 26, 2001 10:08:48 PM new
Joice, remember the legal argument in 'Miracle on 34th Street?' Kris Kringle's lawyer argued that his client, believed to be insane for claiming he was Santa Claus, should be found SANE if he could prove that he WAS, in fact, Santa Claus.
Similarly, if an AW user calls another user a moron, and that person IS a moron, shouldn't that be OK?
posted on February 26, 2001 10:28:23 PM new
Maroons? What, ya can't call someone a maroon any more?
I think someone touched in the source of this never ending disagreement. The casual (sometimes called hobby) sellers who list a few things to make some extra money look at things differently than the folks who sell online full time as a primary means of support.
The former look at it as a fun way to make a few bucks, and maybe meet some folks in the "community." They likely haven't done the math, or figured what they may be making less than minimum wage if they charge actual postage, only. Some probably haven't done the math, and calculated all the hidden costs involved in selling online. So a widget picked up at a garage sale for 99 cents, selling on eBay for say $4.00 feels like a whopping 300% profit and a $3.00 windfall....Wow!....
But...
(nevermind that eBay takes .60, PayPal takes .50, the package costs .50, and other misc. supplies and gas cost maybe .20- leaving perhaps $1.20 profit before 28% income and 15% SS taxes, if reported--- so $1.20 becomes .80 after taxes, meaning that the 30 minutes you spent listing, emailing, packaging, and transporting the widget netted you $1.60 per hour).
The latter group take their business and their time seriously, have calculated the hidden costs of doing business, and know that time is money.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with handling charges, as long as they are disclosed. That should be the end of the story-- as the BIDDER has the choice whether to bid or not.
And around and around we go......
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to sell a video for $100, I'd use DC. Otherwise, no.