posted on February 27, 2001 01:15:16 PM new
Zazzie,
That's fine. The buyers can do the math from there; it provides enough info that there is no surprises, and the bidder can make an informed decision to bid or not.
That is what my post above is saying (note the word *OR* when discussing the two methods of informing the buyers of the breakdown of postage vs handling).
As a fellow Canadian, I ship mostly to the U.S.; My auctions will state "small packet surface - all international shipping (overseas), small packet air." These terms may change to parcel post insured depending on the cost/size of the item. Then I may give the choice of PP Surface or PP Air.
posted on February 27, 2001 01:16:20 PM new
Well, after reading and rereading all of the posts in this thread, including mine, all I can say is:
Say Tom ... do you still have that little red car that Yahooooo wouldn't let you sell? One of my sons is looking for a fixer-upper.
You can ship it by mail, by truck, by train, by plane, by boat, drive it here personally, or shoot it in my general direction from a big cannon. I don't care how much it costs for the shipping ... I just need to know which direction it is coming from
posted on February 27, 2001 01:20:05 PM newcix: "If you see an item you want at a price you are willing to pay, then why should the shipping method be relevant?"
Try to see it from the buyer's perspective, won't you?
Let's say you want to buy a car of a particular make, model and year. One dealer lists it for $9,999 and requires you to pay the standard tax, title and registration, bringing your total to, say, $11,000.
Another dealer, however, offer the same exact car for sale in the newspaper for only $8,999. When you get there, though, you discover that there is an additional "dealer's prep and delivery" charge of $1000 which, after the standard tax, title and registration, brings your total to the same $11,000.
Would it matter to you which dealer you bought the car from, as long as the final price was the same? Or would you be upset at the second dealer for adding excessive charges to the price and thereby depriving you of the bargain you THOUGHT you were getting?
I think most bidders here would be upset at the second dealer, not because they paid more than they thought they would have to but simply because nobody likes being deceived, conned or otherwise scammed.
Just a thought....
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on February 27, 2001 01:24:16 PM new
yes...but nobodyknows why you just registered...what's wrong with flying ( )? anyhoo?
BTAIM: instead of prozac, i think some sellers are going to see a large upswing in their NEGS if this baloney of $4.00 SHIPPING continues!
I can guarantee the next vid I receive in a PAPER ENVELOPE with a few stamps & I have to go through the hassle of requesting a refund because the tape is broken because this greedy & clueless seller INFERRED priority shipping in his ad...
posted on February 27, 2001 01:26:27 PM new
Nothing is wrong with saying that, that was my point! All my friend did was disagree with a moderator and she gave him the boot and closed his account! If you check the moderator forum, he did not do anything wrong, especially enough to get booted! She just could not take the fact that he disagreed with here.
posted on February 27, 2001 01:27:35 PM new
$1,000 worth of excess fees can hardly compare to $2.00 -$3.00 excess.
But, to answer you question, If I were buying the car as an asset, I would go back to the first dealer and buy the car there. This way I would have record of purchasing a $9,999 car.
If I were getting a loan for the car, then I would go to the second dealer since the price was $1,000 lower. Regardless of excess charges if I was going to pay the same either way.
posted on February 27, 2001 01:28:39 PM new
In order to disagree with the MOD SQUAD, a member must take it to the MOD CORNER -- ya got booted for fighting in the thread, probably!
posted on February 27, 2001 01:31:33 PM new
God this argument is still going on? I'm just changing my rates to include 2 rates. It's not worth the argument.
nobodyknows, I checked the thread and I have to agree with you. He did not say enough wrong and I think it sucks your friend was booted. HOWEVER, I dont think this is the place to talk about it. Go to the other board and deal with it with them. Let me tell you that it does bother me that they booted him just for changing a word. That is stupid. (uh-oh... me: fear of getting suspended for saying stupid).
Reptiles and Samarui...
posted on February 27, 2001 01:33:15 PM new
Hi, Oxford. Yes, I see your point. But I still disagree. I salute your integrity and I don't feel that "none of your business" is a proper response. Unfortunately, I think your suggestions open up a whole can of worms that is simply not necessary. This is just my own personal feelings. When I BUY on eBay (and I do buy occasionally), I NEVER assume anything. I look at the total shipping charges (including handling) and make my "informed decision" based on that. My requirements of a seller are very simple: deliver the item as described within a reasonable time frame. I know sellers are padding their shipping a bit and I realize that for professional sellers on eBay this is a necessity. If you don't charge more than you think you need, you will lose money. That's not profiteering.
If you're going to break down your shipping charges (I state "shipping and handling" ), then it would be appropriate to include exactly what goes into the handling. Packaging materials? Labor? Feeding Shosh's cat? Many of my item descriptions are short - one line or two, and I think that an extended TOS of any kind would negatively impact bidding. eBay already has rules in place to protect buyers. And one of those rules is that extra charges not stated in the ad are not allowed.
I do feel that hiding handling fees within shipping is somewhat deceptive, but we had this discussion a while back and didn't come to a concensus. Extra fees not stated in the ad should be, and are, outlawed. But I don't feel that a page long TOS describing everything from payment type accepted, handling fee breakdown, which days of the week I ship, and my astrological sign (for those bidders who are concerned about such things) is appropriate or necessary.
I treat my customers the way I like to be treated. I accept that some customers have preferences that I can't fulfill. I got an email last Monday from a customer who had been writing me all weekend to ask if I had received his payment. By the time I got to the Monday email, he was already threatening negative feedback. Not because I didn't contact him after the auction. Not because his item was late. But because I didn't respond to his emails during the weekend. I can't be all things to all bidders and I don't try to be. GratefulDad
posted on February 27, 2001 01:39:36 PM new
Damn I hope it doesn't rain tonight ...
hey twinsoft ... "Feeding Shosh's cat?"
Well, if Shosh's cat is anything like my two, the cost to feed him/her will be exhorbitant ... include that in your listing as an extra and eBay will definitely contact you about fee avoidance
[ edited by RB on Feb 27, 2001 01:43 PM ]
posted on February 27, 2001 01:42:38 PM new
RB...I have a very good plan, thank you!
I have been profitable since I started selling on ebay in the spring of '98. My business continues to grow...my gross sales are in the high 5 figures. I am an honest, ethical seller who cares about her customers. I buy low enough that I can make a profit and still offer the buyer a great bargain. I offer my customers very nice merchandise. I am pleasant, friendly with my customers, I keep them well informed all through the transaction. I don't treat my customers with disrespect, I don't question them when they are a little late with payment(or check out their bidding history to see if they are lying). I don't demand they get their payment to me in 10 days.
My plan is well thought out and works very well!
Oxford...In my auction descriptions I give all my potential customers ALL they need to know to make an informed decision. In the thousands (close to 8000 so far) of transactions I have had, NOT ONE person has stated the need to know any more information than I have listed in the auction. NO ONE has asked.."is the shipping for priority". From my experience, it is superfluous information that is not needed in order for the buyer to make an informed decision. All it does is ad verbage to the auction and causes the buyer's eyes to glaze over.
Now, obviously YOU do want such information. If you need it and are looking at my auctions you will see a bolded statement that invites you to ask me questions...and to make it easy for you, I even include my email address in that invitation. I will answer your question as soon as I see it. If you have some special need or desire for a specific method of shipping I will work with you.
But, you are the tiny minority of buyers. I'm not cluttering up my ads with details that are only needed by a tiny fraction of the buyers...but you are welcome to email me and I will do my darndest to satisfy your needs.
posted on February 27, 2001 01:46:42 PM new
amy ... I know you do Amy
It's just that I am tired (had a LATE game last night and "lost" of couple of players due to, ahem, their indiscretions on the ice which has put me into a bit of a foul mood now that we are nearing playoffs), and when I read your post it just seemed like you determine your shipping costs based on a spin of the big wheel.
Of course I know that is not the case ... have fun with your stuff
[ edited by RB on Feb 27, 2001 01:47 PM ]
posted on February 27, 2001 01:54:32 PM new
I have a question for your bidders out there. I recently sold a sheet of paper from the official Monkees Fan Club which is now defunkt. I also sold a rare Jimmy Hendrix postcard.
Should I have just stuck the sheet of paper in an envelope and mailed it off for $0.35? or should I have put it in thick cardboard so it is not bent?
Should I have put the post card in the mail as is and just paid $0.20 or should I have put it in thick cardboard so it was not bent?
I just want oppinions here. I would think a bidder who wants a collectable like those would not want those bent. That is the problem with this argument your making. It does nto always aply. The mailers I purchase made of hard-to-bend cardboard costs me about $1.15 each. So, I have to charge $1.99 to ship these items. How else should I ship them if I am wrong?
Reptiles and Samarui...
posted on February 27, 2001 01:59:14 PM new
DM ... however you decide to ship them, just let the bidders know in your description. In your example, making a decision based on that info would be a no-brainer.
btw, where's old 'what's her name' who has the record for starting the thread with the most posts? This one is getting close
posted on February 27, 2001 02:00:41 PM newI just want oppinions here.
My opinion is that 98% of your buyers will be perfectly satisfied with the charge for shipping their collectable item in a protective mailer. 1% will think it is not protected well enough regardless of what you do and the other 1% will say you are ripping them off on shipping by charging them more than the actual postage on the package.
posted on February 27, 2001 02:10:14 PM new
The actual postage will cost about $0.77 because of the weight of the mailer. The mailer is about $1.15. That comes to $1.92. That is not including the $0.25 I use for certificate of mailing... Damn, it looks as if I am not charging enough on this.
I don't make any money off shipping and don't think sellers should. But, as you see, it costs money to send things. Its not free for us.
By the way, I sent a "311" postcard which I only charged $0.20 to someone as a postcard when I first started selling this stuff and the bidder freaked! He said I should have packaged it up and not wrote on it. I agreed, but explained that I would have had to package it in a mailer and that would cost more money and he explained that he would rather pay more money to have it mailed right. I did have another and I replaced it, but that is the point. Just because it costs very little for postage, does not mean it costs very little to ship.
And yes, I do explain my shipping in very good detail in my TOS.
[ edited by digitalmaster on Feb 27, 2001 02:14 PM ]
posted on February 27, 2001 02:34:26 PM new
tomwiii...I'd like to know where you get a bubble bag for $.10! Last time I bought a padded envelope, it cost over $1.00...and that was at WalMart. I can appreciate folks wanting to get items shipped at the lowest possible rate, but USPS does set limits on exactly what can be shipped via media or book rate. Last time I checked, there really wasn't much difference between the parcel post/priority rate. Factor in costs of bubble wrap (I paid over $24.00 for a roll and I wrap practically everything in that), tissue paper, tape, etc...the cost can zoom beyond priority. And let's not forget the fees charged to the SELLER by PayPal, et al...the service, in reality, more advantageous to the BUYER...but seller pays...All these costs add up and I personally don't think a seller is out of line by getting reimbursed for them...just as long as the costs are clearly stated in the TOS...
posted on February 27, 2001 02:40:18 PM new
blueeyes29, your making a good point except about paypal fees, etc. That should not factor into shipping and will only cause bidders to get more angry. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you, but just don't use that argument because it will just get people on this thread to bring up the point that you should add the fees into the auction price.
posted on February 27, 2001 04:27:35 PM new
tomwiii.....Where can I buy 10¢ bubble bags? I've been checking auctions for weeks looking for a good buy on bubble mailers. With shipping costs, the best I can come up with is 30¢ and up.
posted on February 27, 2001 04:34:41 PM new
This is no scam...you were told in advance what the S&H was....a scam is from sellers who do not list a price in the ad and then try to stick it to you, and even then only a few do this (and they don't last long) If I ship non Priority I will include a little extra to help cover some of my packing material costs...but when I use Priority I list it exact and say it's for Priority Mail.
posted on February 27, 2001 04:55:35 PM new
Since I see some of you are still here to complain, please answer my question then:
I recently sold a sheet of paper from the official Monkees Fan Club which is now VERY RARE. I also sold a rare Jimmy Hendrix postcard.
Should I have just stuck the sheet of paper in an envelope and mailed it off for $0.35? or should I have put it in thick cardboard so it is not bent?
Should I have put the post card in the mail as is and just paid $0.20 or should I have put it in thick cardboard so it was not bent?
I just want oppinions here. I would think a bidder who wants a collectable like those would not want those bent. That is the problem with this argument your making. It does nto always aply. The mailers I purchase made of hard-to-bend cardboard costs me about $1.15 each. So, I have to charge $1.99 to ship these items. How else should I ship them if I am wrong?
posted on February 27, 2001 05:03:43 PM new
Digitel....If it's a collectibile Item (and it probably is) the buyer would expect it to be shipped protected...and $2.00 is not a lot for SHIPPING & HANDLING of such an item, if it arrives damaged then it's collectible no more.
by the way...S&H means Shipping & Handling, Mailing Materials are not free (unless you use the over priced Post Office Priority Materials, which are Free (so called)
posted on February 27, 2001 05:07:24 PM new
By The Way...I buy Mailing Supplies Online in Bulk where they are much cheaper than most stores or even the large office supply stores, and I charge .75 to ship post cards (unless it is expensive then i charge $1.25 for the even heavier (stiffer) protection.
posted on February 27, 2001 05:10:31 PM new
But its the same point when in reality it only costs about 20 cents to send a post card and $0.35 to send a sheet of paper. That is the same story with videos. Take for instance a rare Steve Winwood Video I have. It is very rare. I have 8 coppies to sell. I don't feel I should send something that rare for $2.00. I think its fine to pay for good packaging and priority so it arrives safetly. My point is, the argument is too general and cant apply to all sellers. I agree some sellers gouge and ship their stuff in cheap packages, but not all sellers do and this argument is moot in my case.
Also, I have rare music videos from a lot of 80's artists. I am not talking about VHS, I am talking about some other format that I am not familar with. I spoke with a friend and its a format only sent to video shows. Anyway, the cost to send these would probably be $3.95. I would probably charge a lot more than that for packaging and tracking. Isn't that fair in my case considering that I am selling rare collectables?
posted on February 27, 2001 05:15:07 PM new
I buy wholesale from Nebs, and Associated Bag Company and spend about $1000 a pop on different packages for different merchandise. Their mailers are cheaper then most and the mailers I use for postcards, photos, paper, is expensive because of the kind that I get. So you sell rare postcards that sell for as much as $80? That is my point. Most of my postcards, etc don't sell for $5 or something. They sell for a lot of money and I am not going to risk a postcard that sells for $80 and send it media mail for $0.75!
posted on February 27, 2001 05:36:27 PM new
The idea of the free market is if you don't like the way one company does their business you can just patronize their competitors.
When you buy from any business, expect to pay the seller a profit whether on the bid price or handling. Businesses operate for profit not for charity. If you don't like the amount of profit a seller makes off you, shop from someone else.
I feel like I'm teaching ten year olds for the first time how the world works. No offense to those who embrace learning new things. Better late than never.
posted on February 27, 2001 05:53:28 PM new
That brings me to another point. One of my first transactions I bid on an item and the guy charged OUTRAGEOUS prices to ship it to me via UPS only. The auction stated "buyer pays actual shipping charges."
I asked the seller why he was charging so much and he explained that where he lived, there was not a UPS drop off anywhere and he had to got to Mailbox ETC. and they lay on a bunch of fees on top of the price.
I paid for it (it was a keyboard) and got my item fine and was happy with it and I understood that not everyone can ship the same item for the same price.
The same goes where I live now. I almost moved to a different city in the desert close to here because the houses are really cheap ($100,000) but they did not have a post office. The mail was brought in from a mail truck and they did not accept packages so you had to drive to the closest post office. If I wanted to ship anything I would have had to drive 25 miles to the closest post office so I did not take the house.
Lets say I did take the house. My gas would have had to been part of my S&H. There are lots of small areas in the country where hard working men and woman grow up in who may be selling online to feed their families and may not have a choice on their S&H prices! Everything varies! I have had the same argument about the word "Rare." I may have something rare and maybe in a store in NY they have a bunch of the same thing in their used record pile. I have had someone argue with me before "I seen that item here in NY, its not rare!" Rare does not mean unavailble it means that its rare, hard to come by. So, maybe in NY its easy to pick up, but not in London or Utah.
As I said, this argument about shipping rates can't be applied to all situations.
[ edited by digitalmaster on Feb 27, 2001 05:57 PM ]
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