posted on April 18, 2001 07:26:08 PM new
I see two things
1) ebay bug not vranes fault
2) vrane could have responed better
I think i can see why ebay has canned answers. I think we have all had one of those days maybe even weeks.
Maybe the best way to handle the situation is with a canned answer...for situations that are the same
I am not the best bussiness man or the worst. As a bussiness person there is some things vrane could learn from this
1) It is almost impossible to give customer person to person service when you are getting this big..on everything
2) learn from what i am sure he is reading and..become better
3) survey his customer base and see were he could improve..bussinesses tends to take it less personal when they read it from the masses...surveys work better when there is somthing given in return for the info
I like vrane service but everthing can improve right??
posted on April 18, 2001 07:42:02 PM new
There are hundreds of companies that offer the same or similar services as vrane. With a bit of research, I'm confident you can find some comparable in price, as well. The only thing that truly differentiates one service company from another is the way they treat their customers. Is the customer always right? No, but the customer is always the customer and the customer must always think they are right.
>>> That is Basic Customer Relations 101<<<
The result for vrane?
(1)His clients will move on to a less hostile environment or
(2) a competitor will come along and do his service for him the right way.
*JMHO*
only ZOOMIN here
to add:
As always, thanks for the "heads up" EG!
[ edited by zoomin on Apr 18, 2001 07:43 PM ]
posted on April 18, 2001 07:50:20 PM new
What goes around, comes around.
"I find you a very rude person. You will find the complete report about this bug in TAGnotes Mon 2 Apr 2001 Vol 3 Number 45 Issue 306. Again I ask you to not to email me again. I will refund your money shortly."
posted on April 18, 2001 10:11:55 PM new
It seems obvious to me from reading the website and the mail to EG, that vrane's first language is not English. Could this possibly be a language barrier problem?
Has anyone invited vrane here to defend him/her/itself?
posted on April 18, 2001 11:06:01 PM new
EG. It seems Rosanne Rosanadana was right, with you, "it's always something".
To err is human......................to blame someone else is more human.
You admit you were "having a tough time in your life" when you originally submitted the auctions. Is it at all just the least little tiny smidgen of a tidbit possible that you just spaced checking "7 day" when you listed them? I find it hard to believe VRANE arbitraily changed them.
"GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT" as they say.
Now you come over here , once again, to vent about another of your daily earthshaking tales of woe and trash VRANE to get your "revenge".
You seem to be a victim of circumstances. The trouble is you seem to create the circumstances.
*********************************
The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.
posted on April 18, 2001 11:51:15 PM new
Let me see if I understand this:
The original poster made a mistake and did not understand why her auctions were for 5 days. In emailing to Vrane her problems, she did not indicate which auctions started out as 7 days and got changed to 5 days. Instead she gave the wrong auctions, which started as 5 days and relisted for 5 days. I guess she was expecting ESP on the part of the researcher to know to trace further back these auctions than the auction numbers supplied to him.
The original poster also did not bother to read the ebay announcement board regarding the 7 day listing problem.
She also failed to mention to readers that Vrane makes a total of about 20 cents on this transaction since she relisted about 16 auctions. Of course, the original poster blames Vrane for much a greater loss even though it was all her mistakes that created the problem.
Now the original poster decides to air her dirty laundry in a public forum where she always airs how well she treats her own customers.
I applaud Vrane - the original poster will be a customer I do not want also. He responded in the first email by offering a credit assumming it was a mistake on their part. It took at least 4 emails to deal with this customer on about a 20 cents transaction.
Sometimes, the best business decision is not to keep certain customers. Sort of like how numerous posters of this board indicate that they do not want to deal with foreign customers, who people who wants to pay by checks, etc...
By the way, the original poster also did not post ALL her emails in original form, summarize versions for some. Based on her previous posts of how she treats her customers, it would not surprise me if her emails are not the personable kind.
Finally, if you follow the original poster's advice, you will end up not being able to use any services out there.
I love Vrane. They are great in what they do. They provide tremendous value and an excellent service. Their pricing is most reasonable. Who else would relists auctions for you for about a penny an auction?
Do not let this one sour experience with a perpetual whiner deter you from a truly great service. Use your own judgement.
posted on April 18, 2001 11:52:27 PM new
We use VRane exclusively for our emailing and our auction timing triggers (our volume is too large to use most of his other services). I continue to recommend him wholeheartedly and without reservation.
Yes, he's abrupt, but I am abrupt too. I find his fees to be extremely reasonable for the services he provides. As is the case with the products WEsell, he is a high-volume, low-interface seller. He does not charge enough to spend extra time if not absolutely necessary. I do not know this, but I suspect it to be the case.
posted on April 19, 2001 12:18:43 AM new
I am so reminded of my son and a problem he had when he was young.
He frequently complained about how others reacted towards him. After hearing the same complaints numerous times I gave him the following advice...
"If this were hapenning to you only occasionally then we can conclude the problem lies with the other guy. But it is happening often. This makes me think that the problem may have something to do with the way you are acting towards others. You need to look inwards and discover what it is about the way you present yourself that "raises the hackles" of others. Once you do that and correct it I bet you will find the problems go away"
It took him awhile but eventually he relaised he was also culpable...once he realised that his problems melted away.
posted on April 19, 2001 12:28:26 AM new
Amy, I'm up this late because our family just got back from the Kings hockey game. What's YOUR excuse? <gr>
BTW I continue to be amazed at what people expect from a dealer of a product or service. For the money I spend at VRane (not a lot, frankly, he's not expensive) I do not expect or demand any level of personal service. I know he can't afford the time. I'm sure that others provide similar services with better communication skills but I'll betcha they cost more money too.
posted on April 19, 2001 03:09:30 AM newIs it at all just the least little tiny smidgen of a tidbit possible that you just spaced checking "7 day" when you listed them? I find it hard to believe VRANE arbitraily changed them.
No, it's NOT a possibility. The auction was originally posted at 7-days, as ALL my auctions are. (I forwarded this auction to Vrane as proof). I only relist through Vrane and when I relisted it, it was changed to a 5-day auction. (Which I admit I did not catch until the 2nd time relisting).
Some posters on this board have said there was an Ebay "bug" that changed the default relisting to 5-days. Perhaps YOU didn't read the AB on that either????
Now you come over here , once again, to vent about another of your daily earthshaking tales of woe and trash VRANE to get your "revenge".
No "revenge" about it. Poor customer service, poor "service" all together, and rudeness brought me here to warn anyone else who is thinking of using Vrane.
Do not let this one sour experience with a perpetual whiner deter you from a truly great service. Use your own judgement.
Perhaps you didn't bother to read some of the other poster's comments on Vrane. I am not the only one who has been treated badly by Vrane. Go back and read page 1 of this thread. Seems to me that Vrane is rude to just about anyone who emails him.
Is he refunding your screwed-up auction credits or kicking you off of his site?
He is refunding my $9.99 that I paid for relist credits and basically not allowing me to relist through that site anymore. Which is NO PROBLEM! After his "do your homework next time" response I wouldn't give him my business anymore anyways. Good riddens!
posted on April 19, 2001 03:20:46 AM new
Moderator - SaraAW
I believe I am on topic with this thread. Since the topic is really about one person's experience with a certain service, it would be hard to not mention that person's experience or previous posts in any way.
The first eight paragraphs of my posts are all related to the facts of the matter as I see it.
Paragraph 9 is just pointing out the fact that the poster did not reveal all email correspondence.
Paragraph 10 is just my personal opinion on the service.
Paragraph 11 - maybe I am pushing the envelope here since I called the poster a perpetual whiner. But, it seem based on all the previous poster's threads that is a fair description.
By the way, if you review the poster's own post, notably her last one, it seems she is referring to herself more than the topic. After all, what is there to beware of? A service that made a business decision not to keep a certain customer?
[ edited by commentary on Apr 19, 2001 03:22 AM ]
[ edited by commentary on Apr 19, 2001 03:23 AM ]
posted on April 19, 2001 03:50:39 AM new
I am glad I don't use their services. Their customer services are really lacking if they must resort to name-calling.
posted on April 19, 2001 04:23:34 AM new"If this were happening to you only occasionally then we can conclude the problem lies with the other guy. But it is happening often. This makes me think that the problem may have something to do with the way you are acting towards others. You need to look inwards and discover what it is about the way you present yourself that "raises the hackles" of others. Once you do that and correct it I bet you will find the problems go away"
Kudos on the advice you gave your son Amy. That will help him a lot in the world dealing with other people.
In VRANE's defense I can only say my level of diplomacy can be pushed at times also. I'm not going to take much grief to make 20 cents. I'd tell the customer to go else where also. Unfortunately else where might be a public message board to issue an editorial, but you just can't spend a lot of time on 20 cents.
posted on April 19, 2001 05:34:25 AM new
ExecutiveGirl: Seems when you have a problem, some people can't wait to pick apart your every word. I am sorry that there are people that cannot stick to the issue instead of bashing you personally.
Other posters on here said that Vrane was also rude to them. Vrane called them STUPID, & IDIOT. Is this your perception of a good business practice? Calling customers names is acceptable?
AW is a wonderful means to learn. Perhaps all of us could learn to "speak" kindly to one another?
Words break no bones, but they do break hearts.
Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy.
posted on April 19, 2001 05:44:34 AM new
{{{psalms}}}
sometimes the assaults on this board border ridiculous ~ I believe that EG has found the humor in it. Like you, the unwarranted attacks make me a bit uncomfortable.
>>>Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy.<<<
Good Words ~ for both the forum and vrane.
I don't think vrane attended the art classes in school!
posted on April 19, 2001 05:54:27 AM new
ExecutiveGirl -
The relist bug was eBay's, not Vrane's. The change happened the FIRST time you relisted and you didn't notice the 7 => 5 day change. eBay FIXED the bug, and the second time you relisted you got the 5-day listing again (because the relist takes the previous length setting).
Yes he's very brief. Yes, his English needs some work. I had a number of emails from him during the development of the "Annihilator" feature that lets you kill all bids by any one user from all of your auctions. He was blunt but never rude. Once he saw the utility of that feature, it took less than two days to get it running.
You can't expect other sites to post warnings about every fricking eBay bug that might affect you. As the seller and the eBay user, you need to be a bit more aware of what's going on. He's solving his problem (a time-consuming user) by sending a refund. That leaves you with the problem of finding a relisting service that won't expect a % of your auctions ...
posted on April 19, 2001 06:47:46 AM new
>>> You're one of the sweet ones on here, Zoomin! <<<
Thanks psalms!
Can you tell that to my kids?
They think I am evil, wicked, mean, and nasty.
(I wouldn't let them eat candy for breakfast this morning)
*sigh*
only ZOOMIN here
posted on April 19, 2001 09:02:11 AM new
Psalms139...in the world of interpersonal relations there are always al least two people involved. As they say "it takes two to tango".
Many times the way we present ourself to the other guy has a strong determination on how the other guy reacts. If we are getting the same negative reactions from numerous others (they treated us rudely, for example), then we should realize we ourself may be acting in a way that the other guy is percieving as "rude".
The wise person will see the pattern that has developed and will try to rectify what it is about themselves that is contributing to the problem. The person in denial will always pin the blame on the other guy and will refuse to admit their own culpability in the ongoing problem.
In this case the other guy finally became "rude"...but we are not being given the full story as we do not have ALL of the emails the poster sent to vrane, so we can't judge if the poster wrote something that "raised the hackles" of the owner of Vrane.
The emails the poster sent that she did reveal to us do show a bit of rudeness themselves. They didn't just point out a problem she had that baffled her and ask him if he knew "why" this happened. The first email to Vrane was already combative. Vrane's response was very neutral and promised a refund. Her second email was again combative.
From the emails she posted from Vrane it seems entirely possible the poster sent other emails that continued in this combative mode.
The poster was erroneous in thinking this was the first time she had relisted these items, but nothing she has posted reveals that she admitted to Vrane that she had been mistaken about this...or asked his forgiveness in jumping to an inaccurate conclusion.
If she had sent her origional email in this vein..."hi, I just relisted some items through your service that came out as 5 day auctions instead of the 7 days I am sure I listed them for in the first place. Could you explain to me how this could have happened? Is there a way to rectify this? Thanks for your help"
She probably would have gotten back a response similar to the one she got explaining there had been a bug in ebay's relisting due to daylight savings. She could then have responded with "here is the list of auction numbers of the items involved. I hope we can figure out just what the problem was here. I have had to kill these auctions and relist them with the correct length...I have asked ebay to refund me the listing fees but it still means I am no longer eligable for the free relist credit now. Thanks again for any help you can give me"
This would have elicited the response that those auctions had been 5 day auctions. Since nothing about her two emails were accusatory thre is a possibility that Vrane would not have responded rudely at this point.
Then she could have checked her auctions, seen that this was the second relist for them, the first relist had been the one hit by the ebay relist bug. After checking this out she could have then responded to him with an email like this..."Hi, its me again. I figured out where the problem is. I relisted these once before. They were origionally running during the time change for daylight savings. Unfortunately, at that time I was distracted by family matters and had not seen the announcement by ebay about this bug. Since I find your relist feature so helpful, I just automatically relisted them. I don't remember there being any warning on the Vrane relist form that mentioned this bug...if there had been I'm sure I would have noticed and manually corrected the length of the auctions. I do realize I am partially at fault here but would appreciate it if you can refund me the missed free relist credits as I think it is also partially your fault. Also, I would appreciate it if you would credit me back your relist fees for these 16 auctions. Thanks again for your help in this."
I can't guarantee that Vrane would not have still been rude but at least this poster would be secure in the knowledge that if he was, she had not contributed to it in any way.
As for sticking to the subject of the thread...the subject is ALL about the interpersonal relations of this poster and Vrane. One cannot discuss the subject of the thread without also discussing the poster as she is an integral part of the equation. We cannot talk about Vrane's reactions without also looking at the other party in this dispute.
In all the posts from this poster on matters of interpersonal relations (matters about her bidders, this one on Vrane, etc), I don't think I have ever seen her admit that she might have contributed to the problem herself. It is always TOTALLY the other guy's fault.
May I add my voice to the others that have enjoyed reading your posts. You make me realize how lucky I am as a seller to NOT sell clothing!!!
I, too, found e-mail from Vrane to be less than polite. I just assumed that it was because I was using a free service ( hey, whaddaya want for FREE!! )
posted on April 19, 2001 09:12:30 AM new
Does this also include PayingFast also. They use Vrane to insert logo's into our auctions. I am sure they will love me for bringing their name into this.
posted on April 19, 2001 09:18:54 AM new
Well said, amy, well said.
And sometimes there are genuine problems that really are no one's fault (not referring to this thread), but one can still try and control their reaction somewhat to make the best of an unfortunate situation rather that crying "FOUL" all the time. That only wastes time and energy better spent. http://bjgrolle.freehomepage.com
posted on April 19, 2001 09:33:02 AM new
If you go back and look at your original message to VRANE, you find that it was written in such a way to guarantee a confrontation.
Your message contains an exclamation point after every sentence and is very accusatory in content. It also shows strong signs of "not me" syndrome. How could I be Wrong! It isn't me! Further, you go on to take no responsiblity for your actions and ignorace to the circumstances surrounding the problem and now write a defamatory message on this board. All things considered, this tells me the true root of the problem. Look in the mirror.
One very strong lesson is reinforced in you're experience with VRANE: "What you give is what you will end up receiving"
Feel free to write another note if you wish to be educated on how to write a polite and constructive message to assit someone in addressing a problem.
As of now, you have unjustly bruised the reputation of someone who doesn't deserve it.
