posted on November 4, 2000 07:45:55 AM new
http://www.capitoltimes.com/vol2/num32/nation3.cfm
July -8, 1999
Bush, a Yale University graduate, has said he joined the Air National Guard rather than volunteer for Army combat duty because he wanted to learn how to fly jet fighters like his father, who was a fighter pilot in World War II.
"He said he wanted to fly just like his daddy," Bush's commander, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, told the Times. "Nobody did anything for him. There was no ... influence on his behalf."
[B] The Times reported that many of Bush's former colleagues and superiors in the Guard remember him as a bright young leader who worked hard.
"He did the work. His daddy didn't do it for him," said retired Maj. Willie J. Hooper. [/B]
During the Vietnam era, joining the National Guard was seen by many as a means of avoiding the draft and combat duty. In 1988, Dan Quayle, then on the GOP ticket with Bush's father, was bedeviled by accusations that his prominent family helped him win a coveted spot in the Indiana National Guard.
However, the political potency of the issue in 2000 is questionable. Of the current crop of presidential candidates, only one - Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona - saw combat duty in Vietnam. A Navy pilot, McCain was shot down and spent more than five years as a prisoner of war.
Two others in the field, Vice President Al Gore and GOP Sen. Bob Smith of New Hampshire, also served in Vietnam but not in combat.
http://www.dallasnews.com/specials/bush_campaign/controversies/0704militarysrvc.htm
July 04, 1999
After completing basic training in San Antonio in August 1968, he helped out aircraft mechanics at Ellington until that November, when a pilot-training slot came open.
He was promoted to second lieutenant and began a 13-month pilot training program at Moody Air Force Base, in Georgia.
He was the only Guardsman among the 70 or so officers from other branches of the military who began the training.
Under the terms of his contract with the military, if Mr. Bush had failed to complete pilot school, he would have been required to serve the Guard in some other capacity, to enter the draft, or to enlist in another branch of the military.
After passing flight training, Mr. Bush was schooled for several more months at Ellington, and in March 1970 began flying "alerts," the name used to describe the 147th's mission of guarding gulf coast borders against foreign attack.
In those days, the 147th kept at least two fighters ready to scramble, round-the-clock, guarding Texas oil fields and refineries against airstrikes.
"It's kind of a non-threatening way to do your military, get paid well for some long shifts, and feel good about your own involvement," said Douglas W. Solberg, now an airline pilot, offering his reasons for joining the 147th and serving with Mr. Bush after an Air Force flying stint. "It was a cushy way to be a patriot."
A former non-commissioned officer who worked on planes and supervised other ground crews at Ellington said Mr. Bush was not a silver-spoon snob or elitist, unlike some former Air Force fliers.
"I remember him coming down, kicking the tires, washing the windows, whatever," said Joe H. Briggs, now of Houston. 'I'm probably one of the few people around who'll admit I voted for Clinton. But I'll pull for this guy for president."
No overseas duty
Mr. Bush's application for the Guard included a box to be checked specifying whether he did or did not volunteer for overseas duty. His includes a check mark in the box not wanting to volunteer for such an assignment.
But several personnel officers said that part of the application for domestic Guard units routinely would be filled out that way by a clerk typist, then given to the applicant to sign.
Mr. Bush has said that he signed up for but lacked the number of flying hours to participate in a program called the Palace Alert, which eventually rotated nine pilots from his unit into duty in Southeast Asia from 1969 to 1970.
His signup and willingness to participate was confirmed by several of his colleagues and superiors, who remembered the effort as brash but admirable.
"The more experienced pilots were shaking their heads, saying, 'He doesn't even know where to park the planes,' " said Albert C. Lloyd, then head of personnel for the Texas Air National Guard.
Some attention has also focused on Mr. Bush's departure from the service. Under his original oath, he was obligated to serve in the Guard until May 1974. Instead, he was allowed to leave in October 1973 to attend Harvard Business School.
Former Guard officials and members of Mr. Bush's unit said that release, seven months early, was not unusual for the Guard. Mr. Bush's unit was changing airplanes at the time, from the single-seat F-102 to the dual-seat F-101. They said it made little sense to retrain him for just a few months'
service, and letting him go freed spots for the Guard to recruit F-101 pilots from the Air Force and elsewhere.
If you look at the complete articles you'll see that they present an overview that isn't entirely flattering nor bashing. I try to find my information from sites that are not anti-Gore or anti-Bush. Otherwise, why bother? It's not a perfect filter but it helps cut out at least some of the b.s.
I'd put more thought into Kelley's claims if he would back it up with something besides
allegations with no proof. It seems with his connections he could easily find someone to
prove him right - unfortunately, we don't ask him to.
As to Flint - All I know is that this kind of baseless #*!@ last minute accusation is pretty much his thing... it's what he does when he's not peddling flesh or being accused by his daughter of molesting her throughout her entire childhood. He's not someone whose opinion I would give any thought to.
Femme
[i] What better way to teach your kids than by using yourself, especially the embarrassing or not-so-rosy experiences, as an example?
"Do as I say, not as I do".
A parent should use their failures as teaching tools. [/i]
In some cases this can be a great way to teach our kids right from wrong. But I like to have the choice of what I share, when and how. IMO, it's not mandatory that I reveal every mistake I ever made to my kids. There are lots of other great ways to get them where they need to be in life.
KRS Your musings about his potential for becoming a raging alcoholic are empty speculation... Unless you've got a crystal ball. From what I've seen Bush handles pressure much better than Gore does. JMO. I do find it interesting that you apprently think that no president has ever drank to excess before. I don't think Bush is a saint - but I'm not looking for one.
posted on November 4, 2000 08:28:07 AM new
Where do you get that I think that no president has drank to excess before? I wouldn't even claim that none has lied before.
But I do know that the F102 was never flown in Southeast asia, which makes GW's supposed volunteerism kinda' moot, as he would have had to be retrained to fly something else and you've just made note that it was felt that there was insufficient time for that.
And I do know that the claimed license suspension in Maine of 30 days is incorrect for his license was not reinstated until 1978, nearly two full years, and an unusual, if not unheard of, length of time for a first offense in Maine at that time. This ain't from any site speculation, it's from the published record of the court and Dept. of Motor Vehicles printouts in the state of Maine.
So what's the story? The story is that Georgie Boy is lying.
Have any comments on the fact that his Texas DL info was effectively expunged by the convenience of having a new driver's license issued, number 000000005, for "security reasons"? You bet, Trying to keep his record "secure" certainly wouuld be in his interest, wouldn't it? No other Texas governor has ever felt the need to do that, and the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles calls it "highly unusual" if not normally impossible.
edited to ask: were you able to view the tape above? It was shot in 1992 as stated, six years after the onset of teetotalism in GW's POLITICAL life.
posted on November 4, 2000 08:57:19 AM new
For some comments by GWs commanders in the Texas Air National Guard: (Gloss over Bob Kerrey's comments if you like, but notice that no mention is made of any volunteering at all.)
posted on November 4, 2000 09:32:32 AM new
My memory of that time is that most guys who had pull...used it. Wasn't a whole lot of patriotic fervor associated with Vietnam.
My ex and I divorced in '67. Soon after, his daddy got him right into the Navy Reserve. His father had mega-pull, but nothing like our candidates families, I'm sure.
posted on November 4, 2000 10:21:26 AM new
abingdoncomputers,
I'm sure that it is a non-issue for you, for whatever reason, and the details of GWs servvice are not a matter of patriotic judgement of the man. But lying is an issue of some import beyond the specific interests of some 4,000,000 voting veterans. Or more.
The patterns of coverup are too familiar to anyone interested in 1972 Republican tactics, and the alcoholism, shady insider business dealings, and altered or fabricated personal records do seem to indicate that theis person is not as he claims to be.
These things extend to almost every facet of GWs personal and political history. Several of his classmates at Harvard are on record questioning how he ever was allowed to graduate. his arrest record extends further than the one DWI. He has admitted to one, while in school, in which he swiped a Christmas wreath or something, but it seems that there are more than the one.
Notwithstanding those non-issues, which you will no doubt term them, how about the very real issue that Canadian law would not allow a person with his DWI record to enter their country? How would he attend the NAFTA conferences which may be held there?
As one of the voting veterans that you refer to, I have seen nothing to call Dubya's patriotism into doubt. And yes, he has made some mistakes in the past as most all of us have.
But I must tell you that when anyone compares his trustworthiness and ability to tell the truth with Clinton/Gore (yes, both of them), I'll gladly pull the lever for Bush.
He had problems with alcohol (and maybe other things as well) several years ago (long before entering politics and public service). He has acknowledged this fact and turned his life around.
Compare this to Bill Clinton and Al Gore, who both broke the law while serving as President and Vice-President respectively and then lied about it. The greater of the evils here is not the current Governor of Texas.
[ edited by abingdoncomputers on Nov 4, 2000 10:33 AM ]
posted on November 4, 2000 10:35:08 AM new
Question for you KRS,since you are so very good at finding things on the internet!
Was it not the Republicans that started the Gun control issues after Regan was "nearly kilt" and Bradey was shot in the head? I do not remember ever hearing about gun control before that. I have read around the internet people saying they are voting for Bush so they won't lose their right to bear arms so am wondering how it all got started.
posted on November 4, 2000 10:48:42 AM new
It got started in 1937, when Tommyguns were outlawed at the federal level, but peaked in 1968 with the still current Gun Control Act of 1968 which was in response to the assination of John Kennedy. There have been several embellishments of which the Brady Bill is probably the most widely publicized, but it wasn't pushed through under a republican administration. All the Brady bill really does is to impose stricter requirements for handgun purchases in states where there was a lesser control of such sales. Brady doesn't apply in CA, for example, as the California laws were and are more stringent than the Brady requirements.
This election is seen as a last chance for the second amendment right to bear arms, and GW's stated positions are supportive of that right.
posted on November 4, 2000 11:59:27 AM new abingdoncomputers
mybiddness
Taking a line from one of the great movies, I think "what we have here is a failure to communicate". My fault, I'm sure. I'm not use to everything I say being taken so literally.
Speaking as someone who raised 2 daughters, now 35 and 28, I'm not saying parents have to share all of their personal experiences. We are all entitled to some privacy.
But, there are some negative experiences, and I consider substance abuse one of those experiences, that could be very effective in teaching a child.
You can bet their peers are out there trying to sell them on the joys of substance abuse, for example.
posted on November 4, 2000 12:33:25 PM new
Thank you KRS. I knew you would know! I did not know all that and may have to research it a bit more. Nothing would make me vote for beady eyed GW but I do like to know what's what.
If you don't edit for spelling anymore does that mean no one else has to either? [not that I ever did LOL!]Is it safe to use "their" instead of "there"?
posted on November 4, 2000 01:14:18 PM new
There, not their, but never thier.
The Brady bill was enacted in 1994 after several challenges and consequent rewrites.
The challenges in many cases were at the direction of a man who is as moral as Moses and should be the republican candidate for president in my opinion. It'd be a landslide victory and he'd insure that all of the politicos aped him. His only supposed crime was an accidental conking of a local mayor during his observation of a parade with a loose stone whhich slipped from it's mortar at the time he looked over the edge of his home's roof.
posted on November 4, 2000 08:04:05 PM new
breaking news:
FORMER OFFICER BILL BURKETT ACCUSES BUSH OF DOCTORING MILITARY RECORDS IN '99
While some voters appear to view the George W. Bush 1976 drunk driving convention in Maine as being too far in the past, "suspicions that the son of the last
president might have lied about the conviction, or used family connections to expunge it from the record, would jeopardise the credibility of his pledges, delivered in
campaign rallies all over the country, to 'uphold the honour and integrity of the office' if he wins on Tuesday." On Friday the Dallas Morning News reported that in
1996 Bush had lied to a reporter about his 1976 conviction. This morning the London Sunday Times has published stories by Tom Rhodes and Matthew Campbell in
which Bush is accused of doctoring his military file to have it correspond with his '99 autobiography.
"A former officer in the Texas National Guard claimed Bush had doctored his military record. Bill Burkett, a former lieutenant-colonel, said Bush aides had been
"scrubbing the files" to bury disparities between his record while serving as a reserve pilot during the Vietnam war and an account of the period in his official
biography.... Burkett said Bush aides had visited the National Guard headquarters at Camp Mabry 'on numerous occasions' to make sure that records available to the
public about his military service would tally with his autobiography's version of his time as a reserve pilot during the Vietnam war. Bush has always said he was
'discharged with honour' from the force, although it is known he was once grounded for failing to undergo a medical examination, and he reportedly went absent without
leave." More information will be provided later, since the Boston Globe intends to break the story in the United States in its Sunday edition. --Politex, 11/4/00, 8:15 pm
CT
posted on November 5, 2000 07:02:19 AM new
As much as I prefer Gore, I have to admit that a 1970s DUI seems a non-issue. However, IF it's true that Bush tried to hide the records by changing his license number, or that he doctored his military records... that's another thing entirely. Especially after his rather self-righteous ads about Gore's 'exaggerations'.
I rather doubt that Gore's camp had anything to do with the DUI info coming out. It seems from news reports that this DUI has been suspected for quite awhile, lacking only in confirmation. Reporters have probably been quietly digging for this little nugget for months now.
Lisa
posted on November 5, 2000 11:30:51 AM newAs much as I prefer Gore, I have to admit that a 1970s DUI seems a non-issue. However, IF it's true that Bush tried to hide the records by changing his license number, or that he doctored his military records... that's another thing entirely. Especially after his rather self-righteous ads about Gore's 'exaggerations'.
