posted on October 26, 2001 07:46:03 PM newHow do you make money by giving away service
Edited because they killed the "proof" that they had promised image hosting would "always be free". Took them long enough
[ edited by Microbes on Oct 27, 2001 06:24 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2001 08:54:26 PM new
Umm...Interesting policy
Seems....less than intelligent.
I won't be posting a CC, guess I'll have to find somewhere else for my pearls of wisdom .
It's been real, See ya.
Jonathan Hammar
honestjonstoys
--------------
Don't take life so serious, it ain't nohow permanent.
--Porkypine, from Pogo
[ edited by honestjonstoys on Oct 26, 2001 08:57 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2001 10:07:33 PM new
Microbes - forever isnt always forever I guess it was forever based on the way things used to be - still I wouldnt require them to keep that promise at the expense of going under- would you ? It might be reasonable to give a little "were sorry but " to explain why . But im not in their place so I dont know the reasons .
Nite
posted on October 26, 2001 10:52:56 PM new
First of all I'm outta here the first. No way, CC. Guarantees nothing but a near empty forum.
Moderation was always a bad idea, and I'm happy to see it go. I had deliberately limited my posts here due to moderation ad nauseum which had effectively made it stifling for discussing some of the more interesting issues.
Those who fear a little nastiness on the net really need to unplug their modems. Its part of life in the real world and here too. Thin-skinned pansies afraid of a flame belong in a support group, and certainly not in a vivacious discussion forum which this board simply is not. On other topics such as technical info and software issues I highly prefer the newsgroups since there might be a bit of chaos there, but there sure is a world of opinions and information which would be 'moderated' into oblivion here. Too bad they have no sizable groups there devoted to online vending....
posted on October 27, 2001 01:02:58 AM new
Uh...sorry AW, no CC # from me! First charging for image hosting and now this fiasco.
You're a sinking ship, AW. And I'm bailin'!
posted on October 27, 2001 01:26:51 AM new
Ya know, the message boards are what is keeping me on AW and not moving to another service,
There is just so much good info here, It's great to come here & just lurk and see what problems other people are having.
I found out about PayPal because of theseboards, shipping tips, etc etc...
I can't see people posting credit cards just to come in & get quick help or chat...
Please RETHINK this move. There has got to be a better way to verify people, some people just WON'T use a credit card for the INTERNET... No matter how safe you tell them it is.....
All that & a Bag of Chips Too!!
posted on October 27, 2001 06:42:09 AM newMy point is that when they say they don't plan on charging for use of the forums, It's an empty promise.
Yeah, my ears perked up on the first mention of "we have no PLANS" to charge. To me, that just meant it was a viable option for the future, but nothing written in stone quite yet.
As I understand it, we can still lurk -- and learn. It'll be very interesting to see where the forum goes after the mass exodus happens and moderation disappears. My prediction: it won't be pretty.
posted on October 27, 2001 06:48:59 AM new
Yes, this should have made everyone's ears perk up.
Don't some of you remember how AW had said (in response to inquiries, I think) that there were no immediate plans to start charging for their services, yet a mere 3 weeks later they started charging?
Of course, if you're already paying for their services, this new twist doesn't affect you.
But if you've just been using the message boards and think that there's no harm in giving them your CC #...you might be lucky to get 3 days notice that you're going to get hit up with charges.
Look what's happened right now, not even a week's notice.
posted on October 27, 2001 06:54:01 AM new
It's simply a plan to limit users of the message boards. They want it to die so they can phase the message boards out.
They knew that there would be a mass exodus and that's what they want.
posted on October 27, 2001 07:01:00 AM new
Yes, it will be interesting to see what becomes of the boards. However, I can't envision the "mass exodus" of non-AW users who have mostly been "lurking, learning, and gaining knowledge" can have much affect on the true purpose of the boards. And I don't believe that the folks who say they have brought business to AW by lurking and learning here have brought much business. If I had read the boards much before I joined, I would have been frightened away.
posted on October 27, 2001 07:44:24 AM newAnd I don't believe that the folks who say they have brought business to AW by lurking and learning here have brought much business.
Just having one of the busiest eBay boards has had to bring them business. No one logging in for the first time has any idea how many of the posters are "paying" customers. But when this place turns into a graveyard, then people will have an idea.
Did the cost of the moderators justify it? Probably not.
still I wouldnt require them to keep that promise
This seems to be the trend in cyber business, make promises, build a customer base, and then break the promises. Paypal did it also. And they are another company that doesn't get my money. Hey, we (most of us) sell on eBay, and we know our word is our bond. We know that in the long run honesty pays off.
Of course, if you're already paying for their services, this new twist doesn't affect you.
I wouldn't be to sure of this. If your card is on file, and they place a charge on using the boards....
And the user agreement when you place a card on file requires little or no notice:
AuctionWatch may change the Fees Policy effective seven days after those changes have been posted on our website and may add new fees effective immediately upon posting the new fees.
posted on October 27, 2001 08:36:53 AM new
ITA w/ Vargas. I loved AW and would glad have stayed w/ them had their fees not been out-of-line w/ everyone else's. It was the FVF charge that did me in. No way was I going to pay them a FVF.
posted on October 27, 2001 10:44:59 AM newI loved AW and would glad have stayed w/ them had their fees not been out-of-line
Yeah.... I needed a place to host pictures a while back, and the first place I looked was here. If the price had been competitive, they would have had my business, but I got a deal somewhere else for less than 1/2 what they wanted that also included much more than simply picture hosting. I really wanted to use AW because I like them, but I can't see paying almost $100 a year more money than I can get an equivilent amount of server space for elswhere.
posted on October 27, 2001 11:20:01 AM new
Greetings Earthlings,
There seems to be a lot of people here missing one big point.
After reading all the posts here on this thread, there seems to be a the general agreement that these boards are a valuable source of info and comfort for both paying and "freeloading" (what an assinine statement) users.
I think we can also all agree that this may be and has been THE entrance way to AW for the biggest percentage of their new users. I personally think, and this is just a guess that 70% of the new users who come to AW were referred here by someone who was already participating. As I have said, I've sent dozens and dozens of folks here with my highest recommendation over a course of 3+ years (I'm a freeloader by the way). I KNOW at least 7 who use fee based AW services to some extent, oddly though, while I also know some of them lurk the message boards, to my knowledge, only a couple have posted, and even then it was just to ask some questions.
Anyway, whats the big point?
The point is that virtually ALL of the GREAT insights and info that is posted here, The very heart that pumps the blood into this most useful tool that AW can boast of (and probably the very instrument the cultivated whatever degree of success that they've accomplished, Is provided by all of US, absolutely FREE of charge to AW!!!
For them to even consider charging uesr so THEY can provide help to each other, now or ANYTIME in the future would be absolutely ludicrous!!
They don't pay a dime for our experience, help, expertise, insights, or tips, not to mention the shoulders that we extend to others to cry on.
More than a few of the posts here relate that all this might be worth paying for. REALLY? Well if thats the case, it ain't AW that deserves the money. Especially now that they are endeavoring to chase away all the "freeloading" folks who provide this forum with MORE than a substantial amount of its extraordinary usefulness.
rgrem- If you have garnered even one tip, one link, one recommendation, one single piece of useful advice that helped you in you online activity (or life for that matter) on these boards, then you're the FREELOADER, because not only is it more than possible that that info was provided FREE OF CHARGE by someone, like myself, who doesn't pay for AW's services, but your thoughtless statement makes it obvious that you yourself feel that everything of any value, even help and consideration from your peers, MUST be paid for, or you're a "freeloader".
Personally, I feel like giving a bill to AW for every statement that I have ever made here, every question that I have responded to, evey heads-up that I have given, and every customer that I have sent here, that may have helped them build this site.
They have finally and clearly demonstrated, like ebay, that the word "reciprocation" does not exist in their vocabulary.
posted on October 27, 2001 11:27:09 AM new
An unmoderated message board that does not offer any resident (on staff) experts wants to require a credit card for posting.
Hmmm...
Seems to me to be a ploy like AW implied that their photohosting would be free. Even was written in their TOS that it would be free.
So think about this...
They have your credit card on file, yet don't really need it on file, just for verification. This leaves you open for hacks against AW, possible future charges you may not agree with, but don't notice (even if they e-mail you) before it happens. Sure you can dispute any charges, but still.
I really think AW should rethink this policy, and find another way. I can understand with all their layoffs that downsizing the message boards would be envitable.
posted on October 27, 2001 11:35:32 AM newlong_gone, I couldn't have said it better. I've never thought of myself as a freeloader because I have offered my help whenever possible in exchange for taking the helpful info offered by others. IMO, that's the entire purpose of the eBay Outlook forum and it's that very exchange of info that draws new folks to AW, some of who will end up using their paid services.
I think there's really more to this new CC requirement which probably has to do with cutting down the costs associated with bandwidth use & moderators by limiting the forums to the users of AW's paid services. If that's the case, I doubt that AW will still be around in six months time which is truly very sad.
posted on October 27, 2001 11:57:49 AM new
The Message Center was the loss leader for AuctionWatch. It did not make them money but it brought 1000s of people in to see what was happening. This is, by far, the most active Auction oriented message area on the net and I have gotten a lot of good tips from it.
However, AuctionWatch seems to think that they'll be able to keep things going with out the main draw of the site. I would strongly disagree with them from a business perspective. IMNHO, this will be the final nail in the casket for AuctionWatch. The posting level will drop dramatically, the number of visits will drop even more dramatically, ad revenue will drop like a rock and they will have to subsist on the revenue from AuctionManager. I have my doubts that they will be able to do so without some sort of draw like the Message Center to keep drawing people in.
I'll be surprised to see AuctionWatch around in six months. If you are using AuctionManager now, you should be looking for your alternative soon.
I'll see you all on the new message boards that will be much busier now.
posted on October 27, 2001 12:19:17 PM new
You know, the crazy thing is, when I first started to use ebay (I'm a seller mostly, I buy only occaisionally) I was soooo thirsty for reliable info, on everything from ftp to picture hosting to well, just about everything. I learned much on my own by trial and error (lots of errors!). But this was the best place to learn.
I tried first on the ebay boards, where I met Glenda, who referred me here. I never went back to the much inferior ebay boards. They were shut down within a short while anyway. I had also gotten a simultaneous tip to come here by Pongo.com where I was trying to get my pictures to work.
It was HERE that I learned to HOST MY OWN pictures. To do MY OWN html templates. To streamline my TOS and shipping. It was here that I learned to be self sufficient.
Come to think of it, it was HERE that I learned everything I needed to know to NOT have to pay for these services! You know, maybe it's getting a little more clear what AW is up to now!
My auction sales were and still are very successful (though it sure isn't what it used to be!) I lurked for about a year before I just couldn't help but pitch in and give my share of advice, to give back some.
Actually, and maybe relevant to the moderation issue, what kept me from actively posting for so long was a few regulars, one in particular called Ross, who regularly wasted their intellect on malicious, degrading, provoking, degenerative, baiting, threatening comments, and actual interference to the auctions of those who were foolish enough to use their real ebay ID's and disagree with them on the outlook.
I simply did not wish to spend the time locking horns with those who were experts in cheesy high school debate tactics.
It was these people who made moderation necessary. There have been many of these types try to reign on these boards since, and only the presence of a moderator has kept these useless types from ruining the integrity of the boards again. CC or not, these types, when their welcome is worn out in one forum, are perpetually looking for a message board to bully up their self esteem, where they can lower everything around them in a pathetic attempt to raise themselves above, and always feuled on by a weakminded constituency who likewise protect themselves by hanging on the bullies pantlegs.
I think you could bet on the decay of intelligent exchange if there is no moderation.
I'm not afraid of it as someone above has suggested, but really, why would any thoughtful person want to waste their helpfulness amid such low quality.
Once again, , I have no credit cards, so I guess I'm out of the loop whether I like it or not. So long to all the good folks, especially Glenda who gave me my first helping hand here, and many, many others. I guess I'll get a lot more work done now!!
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[ edited by Microbes on Oct 27, 2001 06:24 PM ]
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@naru!