>>"It is always the responsibility of the seller to leave feedback first.....I always do what is right and leave feedback first or usually first."<<
Is there an auction sellers hand book that I don't know about or some kind of bible written by the auction gods? Who's to say what is right and wrong? You?
>>"If you get a neg in return, it is because you deserved it, period."<<
That's a pretty bold statement. Do you have any evidence to back it up? Using your logic a buyer could be a total jerk but as long as he or she pays on time deserves a postive comment. It doesn't work that way in the real world.
I personally don't care who leaves feedback first. Neither the buyer or the seller is obligated to leave feedback at all (in my oppinion). We leave feedback, almost always positive comments when and if the spirit moves us and we still leave about twice the number of positive comments that we receive.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Mar 2, 2002 11:52 PM ]
posted on March 2, 2002 11:32:04 PM new
Feedback is NOT a part of the transaction though, it is an optional element of ebay. Until til they tell me (and who knows, they sure do tell us a lot) that feedback must be left, and must be left as soon as payment is received, then I will continue to do things the way I am. How the buyer acts to a problem IS part of the transaction for me. If the item gets lost, I will replace it or refund, but they may still give a negative. I find this unreasonable, because I have done everything I can in this situation, it is not my fault the post office lost a package, but I am willing to replace it. If I got a negative for that, I would gladly give one in return because I feel I would have done EVERYTHING POSSIBLE in my control to resolve this.
That is WHY I do not leave feedback first. How you decide to handle your business is your own business, like I said I have been on both ends. I think ultimately this benefits me, so I really don't care beyond that (in this case)
posted on March 3, 2002 02:19:36 PM new
Hi I just had to respond to this post as I think it relates to something I'm dealing with now! I want to make sure that I have happy customers and by that I started posting my auctions with a 30 day money back guarantee. If a customer isn't completely happy with their purchase they may return it to me as long as 30 days from the time of their purchase hasn't gone by. I post mostly ladies clothing and accessories and I thought this was only fair. Now I finally have my first unhappy customer which has made me rethink my whole "30 day" money back guarantee. I would have no problem refunding her money except for the fact that she emailed me once she received the handbag that she purchased and told me that it "wasn't her" and she was going to take me up on the money back offer. Okay, no problems here...she wasn't happy with it and those were my terms. I stated "no questions asked" and she even kindly told me the reason she didn't want it. Now with her response she tells me she's going out of town and will contact me about purse soon. More then a month has gone by now, and I received a second email from her about 2 weeks ago -that she was still out of town on a "family emergency" which she didn't point out in the first email. I replied and asked her when I should expect the purse back and she said she would let me know when to expect it once she's back in town. Now honestly this really isn't fair to me...I really feel that she is getting the use out of the handbag and then wants to return it for her money back. The photos I posted with the auction were perfect and the item description was detailed as I post all of my auctions, so even though I don't agree with the "not me" issue I was happy to fully refund her money because happy customers make for happy returning customers if you ask me! In this case though I still haven't heard back about when I'm going to receive the purse and her second email stated it was now an emergency. My auction terms stated 30 days full refund and now those 30 days have more then past. Should I just continue to wait and be the nice person that I am or should I be strict with my 30 day limit. For all I know she is going to return the purse in a year from now after it gets some good ware and tear! My gut tells me from her email that it honestly wasn't an emergency but I can't be sure. Can anyone give me advice in this situation? A month is a good amount of time, I think it is fair and most only offer a 10 day refund. For my most recent auctions posted, I haven't said anything about a refund as I will always provide one but I'm not so sure now that I want people bidding just on those terms. I'm letting the winners know in email that if they aren't satisfied they may return it within 10 days. The thing is she said in her last email she would "be sure to leave me wonderful feedback" so relating to this post, I have her leaving the feedback issue over my head now. I left her positive feedback the minute that I received her payment, she never left me feedback when she received the purse. Now I'm sure if I don't return her money she is going to post some nasty response and I'll have no way of leaving a follow up about the issue. She received the purse in a very quick amount of time from me and the transaction was complete but I just know she won't take that into consideration! Aside from her I haven't had a feedback problem yet, unless you consider the "neutral" feedback from a fraudulent seller. I asked EBay to please have it removed but because it was "neutral" it didn't count. The seller posted numerous items in one auction and I won at the cost of $100 but once the auction was over he emailed me the price of each item separately! LOL - he said he was saving himself time, very amusing! At least in that case I could follow up on it. This woman has a great feedback from me and I can just see her saying something like "HATE PURSE SHE WOULDN'T REFUND MY MONEY BLAH BLAH" when I can't at least state back that it was way OVER 30 days!
posted on March 3, 2002 02:40:02 PM new
It seems clear to me that the purse HAD to be returned within the thirty-day period post auction close. The customer is not complying with those terms. She wanted to send it back based upon the terms; accordingly, she must get it back to you within the terms. I would not accept it back after thrity-days. She probably went to a relatives wedding and needed to "borrow" your purse. You gonna let her get away with it?
I do not offer an unconditional money back guarantee because I sell antiques and collectibles. It would be too easy for a bidder to find a lower priced item a week later, and return my item for that reason. I will only refund if the description was not accurate. A thirty-day guarantee is a LONG guarantee. It seems to me, you are just asking for trouble. Most normal transactions would not require such a guarantee, but I bet the problematic bidders would love it...
posted on March 3, 2002 05:56:31 PM new
Chrissy: I don't advise changing any policy because of a single bidder.
However, I do think a 30-day return policy will be abused again and again, especially given that you sell clothing and accessories. The only reason that Marshalls and TJMaxx (and other such stores) have liberal returns policies is to get people into the store. The clothing retailers have the staff to handle returns. You don't.
posted on March 3, 2002 06:14:02 PM new
The deal is done when the BUYER gets the goods. Like one above said, gave a positive and got a negative. Me too. Leave the sleeping dog lie or you may wake up a monster. 2 cents.
posted on March 3, 2002 10:06:46 PM new
outoftheworld
>>>Using your logic a buyer could be a total jerk but as long as he or she pays on time deserves a postive comment. It doesn't work that way in the real world.<<<
Quite simply yes. Anyone who complies with your terms of the auctions, jerk or not deserves a positive. And yes it does work that way in the real world. If a real jerk customer comes into your place of business, you are required to give him the same service you would to any one else. If you don't, the call that discrimination. You don't have to like a certain individual, and I deal with many myself, but you do have to give them the same amount of service as anyone else. And how do you know if these people are jerks or not. I have never had anyone that has sent payment in a timely manner be a jerk about sending payment. They may turn into a jerk afterwards if the item does show up broken or not what was described, but that is their privilage. They followed the terms of the sale. They did their part. I personally am a seller and rarely buy, but must side with the buyers on this issue in this exact situation.
If the buyer did not pay or took over a month to pay with much trouble to get payment to come, then the seller has every right to not give a positive, but this post is about buyers that do follow the terms and the sellers product/service is not up to standards.
quickdraw,
I agree with 3 of the 4 statements you provide. I must disagree with the first one in most cases. If it was the only neg or maybe even two, then I would agree. But what I see with many sellers when they get a neg, (usually powersellers) is the non-responsive to e-mails over and over again from many different unique users. That one I do take the side of the buyers on. The other three though, you are correct on the sellers side. But if sellers have also done their job, they already have left a neg to the bidder and it is simply a retalitory neg that most bidders weed through buy investigating the person who left it.
posted on March 4, 2002 05:59:37 AM new
I have to agree with quickdraw29. You need to translate buyer feedbacks. I had one guy give me a negative because I had my autoresponder on that I was away for the Thanksgiving holiday weekend. I had another newbie give me a negative because one of the ho train cars wheel came off in packaging. You very simple to put it back on. Well later I check -- he gave negative to the first 10 people that he bought from on ebay.
I have taken the position that feedback really does not matter unless you are under 10. The entire Feedback process is mostly a waste of time(But uninformed buyers love it! - that is why I automated the entire process. When I type the label and ship the item - my database automatically goes out and leaves feedback. Yes, I can not later send out a negative feedback when some fruit cake leave me a negative. But that is what the response system is for.
posted on March 4, 2002 06:14:21 AM new
These sellers that tell me they'll leave feedback in return make me smile. As a buyer I only leave feedback provided the seller left me feedback. I trusted the seller with my payment and in return I receive no trust. No, as a buyer I won't be leaving any feedback under those conditions.
As a seller I leave feedback when paid.
Okay, maybe one in a thousand buyers makes me regret such an action, but I'll be damned if I let one in a thousand decide on how I'll operated my feedback.
posted on March 4, 2002 08:06:19 AM new
That's smart, uaru. Just as you shouldn't change a policy because of one bidder, it doesn't make sense to run a retaliatory feedback operation because one out of 100 or 1000 bidders might be a problem.
If someone I buy from tells me they'll only leave feedback after I do, that does not make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I don't think I've ever bought again from such people.
posted on March 4, 2002 08:35:41 AM new
I CAN NOT STAND IT ANY LONGER!!! I have got to post again! IT IS NOT RETALITORY OR FEEDBACK BLACKMAIL! It simply makes sense and is MUCH easier for the busy seller to RETURN by clicking on the link next to their feedback! Look at it this way...A seller puts up and gets paid for 100 auctions in one week...Scenerio one, seller leaves 100 feedbacks when payment is received..goes back to find old auction, leaves feedback. Buyers get item...nothing! 75% do NOT RETURN feedback .. 25 do...Seller wasted time leaving FB for buyers who could care less about FB or because they already received it for themselves and could care less about YOUR feedback!...PERK of some people not leaving bad FB for FEAR of retaliation is just that..a PERK ...an extra bonus with NO bearing on the reason I return FB after transaction is complete! It is insane for the seller...WHO HAS THE MOST TO DO AND THE MOST FEES TO PAY AND THE MOST TIME TO INVEST to even consider leaving feedback for everyone just cause they paid for an item they bid on...What is it??? A prize because you honored your bid and paid for an item you bid on voluntarily?? I am happy to return feedback to those who want feedback..but I am not going to look for them. Obviously, I do not care if they leave me feedback either..I just consider that maybe they are HAPPY they DO NOT HAVE to leave any if they do not want to. The STUPID thought that you retrun a neg ONLY because you received one is unprofessional! It is na na na na BABY STUFF! GROW UP!! I am expecting and deserving of a big fat neg right now if it turns out I cashed a money order I do not remember receiving! I will feel terrible even though it would be a human mistake. Never had a problem before but there is always a first time! If I did in fact cash the Travelers express check, I will, apologize profusely, make the situation right by refunding his money AND shipping the item ...AND TAKE MY NEG LIKE I DESERVE! I will NOT give him a neg, also! How stupid would that be?? In the auction world, there is not 2 sides to an argument, when you are wrong, you are wrong and accept your neg!...If you are right and get negged, the person that negged you is wrong...Only one wrong person. Period! Not everyone plays fair but do not blame the sellers for trying to streamline their business input time that could be better served putting up auctions..If anybody retaliates (give me one , I will give you one, like babies, 99.9% of the time it is the newbie BUYERS! Not the seasoned sellers and buyers! Sometimes, I do return a neg, when it is deserved..That is the only time..I nevr leave negs first, even when they are deserved cause babies bite.. The whole system is terrible anyway and almost as stupid as this thread I started is becoming.
kiddo2
posted on March 4, 2002 08:39:29 AM newAnyone who complies with your terms of the auctions, jerk or not deserves a positive.
That's really the crux of the matter. Feedback is subjective. Back when eBay's system allowed multiple feedbacks to be left any time, it was a lot easier to give an overall report. Since then, buyers/sellers must decide when and if they can issue a "report card." In my opinion, if a buyer requests a refund, for whatever reason, that information should ALWAYS appear in the feedback profile.
If a real jerk customer comes into your place of business, you are required to give him the same service you would to any one else. If you don't, the[y] call that discrimination.
No, that is not discrimination.
... he gave negative to the first 10 people that he bought from on ebay.
That buyer deserves a neg on principle. Many newbies don't understand the feedback system.
The feedback system has been through many changes. One of the things that changed feedback is the NPB rule (three strikes and you're out). It's not hard to understand why some sellers don't leave negative feedback for non-payment. Sellers weigh their obligation to the eBay "community" against the possible harm retaliatory feedback might cause. That is an unfortunate fact about selling on eBay.
Quickdraw, I respect you for posting what is obviously an inflammatory opinion. I don't agree, but I will admit you've got guts.
posted on March 4, 2002 08:47:41 AM new
I believe that most of the sellers that wait until they get positive feedback before leaving it arent doing it because he/she knows the item isnt up to par or mispackaged etc. They do it to protect themselves against thieves who want something for nothing and/or lie about their purchase not arriving etc.
All my negs from buyers are because they LIED and of course I was stupid enough to leave positive FB first.
MEOW
posted on March 4, 2002 09:21:57 AM new
"Anyone who complies with your terms of the auctions, jerk or not deserves a positive."
If a seller sends your item they should receive a positive feedback everytime too. There are no buyer terms, so buyers have nothing to complain about. You paid, you received, leave positive feedback. I agree on both sides, that's the way it should be, as long as everyone lived up to their side of the bargain who cares if emails got ignored, or it took a week longer than expected to receive the item. If an item gets damaged in the mail, hopefully you bought insurance or knew the reurn policy of the seller. Negs should be reserved for those who didn't follow through- buyers who didn't send full payment; sellers who never sent item. In reality though, too many morons who can't agree on a simple concept. I kindly email the morons who neg me and ask them why and explain the situation to them. Hopefully they become educated on the matter so they don't repeat the same mistake.
posted on March 4, 2002 10:08:03 AM new
Now that we have hashed out the WHEN to leave feedback, I have a question about the WHAT to leave.
Specifically, to whom are the feedback comments directed? I've seen some sellers who use it to communicate with the buyer, as in "Item shipped today. Thanks!" Others write as if to other sellers, as in "Beware! Cancel their bids quick, if you can!"
eBay calls feedback "...an official electronic 'reputation.' Feedback answers many questions you may have about how a person does business on eBay."
Not to be too Zen about it, but I think one's philosophy about the purpose of feedback (and the WHAT to leave) affects one's WHEN to leave it policy. If it is used as an electronic "pat on the head" or "thank you for the payment," then it seems as if it is left more often upon payment or shipment. If it is used to let the eBay "community" know how the other person handles the transaction overall, then it makes sense to leave it after goods are delivered and accepted and any problems are resolved.
Still, regardless of its purpose, in my opinion, so long as the feedback system is voluntary, there is no obligation to leave any at all. It should be up to the individual buyer or seller, and they should not be vilified for whichever method they choose---or indeed if they choose not to participate in the feedback system at all.
posted on March 4, 2002 12:05:36 PM new
Since I accept personal cheques & ship immediately, Pigs will fly over the White Cliffs of Dover with "Don't Sit Under The Apple Tree With Anyone Else But Me" blowing out their butts before I will leave first FB!
I'm always DELIGHTED to RECIPROCATE with FB, and I'm a little upset at all this SANCTIMONIOUS, CAT-LOVING, PRETZEL-CHOKING, HOLIER-THAN-THOU ATTITUDE being thrown about in this thread!
posted on March 4, 2002 01:02:00 PM newBarparts said: What if the seller sent an item that wasn't correctly described or mispackaged. The buyer should not get penalized for the sellers misconduct. But yet that seller should get the negative.
If a problem arises, the seller should have the chance to correct that problem. The seller should only get a neg if he doesn't correct the problem.
eauctionmgnt states there are 7 steps in a transaction. Not true as far as a seller is concerned. Step seven does not apply to the seller, only the buyer.
Actually, there should be more steps.
8)Buyer examines merchandise.
9)Buyer accepts the merchandise or lets the seller know that there is a problem. If there is a problem then there would be additional steps to fix the problem.
Once you have received payment and shipped the item, you are obliged to leave positive feedback as the buyer has done there part.
Feedback is voluntary. Neither party is "obliged" to leave feedback.
You also state that the buyer is not done with there part of the transaction until they receive the item. This is true. What you fail to realize is that the sellers part of the transaction is done at step 6.
No, the seller's part of the transaction is over when the buyer accepts the merchandise or is satisfied with the correction of any problem. After all, if the seller's part was done after shipping then he wouldn't have to accept returns, give refunds, or fix problems.
If you get a neg in return, it is because you deserved it, period.
Let me tell you about one buyer of mine. He was a newbie. He started 3 auctions of his own and bid on one auction - mine! All 3 of his winners left negs for him and after 3 weeks I filed a NPB warning against him. He negged me. Even after that I waited another 10 days for his payment before filing a FVF and negging him. So, tell me, what did I do to deserve the neg.
I like your additions to my seven-step program! (although I guess I need a new name for it now!) My seven steps were designed to show the absolute least amount of things that HAD to happen for a transaction to take place. (therefore allowing everyone to realize the earliest point a transaction could be considered ended). However, you are absolutely correct. From a buyers standpoint the transaction is certainly not finished until they have examined the merchandise and decided to accept the merchandise or enter into further discussions with the seller. Bottom line, is the bidder is the one in contol of when the transaction is ended. It's not over until the Bidder says it is. Ebay doesn't say to leave feedback when your part of the transaction is done. They recommend you leave feedback when the transaction is done. BIG difference!
posted on March 4, 2002 02:19:34 PM new
I have to agree that 30 day money back guarantee is too long. As far as your buyer, family emergency or not (probably not if ya ask me)..she didnt return the merchandise and had plenty of time to do so..therefore no refund. I dont state a refund policy as I think that it can get you in trouble. I would find it nervey for a buyer to contact a seller wanting a refund just because it's not her color. This is exactly Lands End!
MEOW
At this point, if the purse came back I would refuse the package and take the neg. According to your story, it seems like the person just wanted the purse for her trip and then wants to dump it back on you.
She did not comply with your terms. Don't accept the return. End of story!
>>"If a real jerk customer comes into your place of business, you are required to give him the same service you would to any one else."<<
I suppose this is why most stores post signs that they can refuse service to any one for any reason. It is their place of business. If a person isn't civil they can and do refuse to serve them and show them the door.
Sorry, the customer is not always right.
A seller can do everything possible and still not please the customer. Do they still deserve the negative comment?
Most negative and some neutral comments I've seen are usually exaggerated and do not accurately represent the facts. Some are just plain ridiculous.
Complaint: The sweater was a large but didn't fit like a large.
Response: The mesurements were in the auction.
