posted on September 19, 2002 04:05:00 PM new
Hi trai,
The claim is between PayPal and the buyer if one is filed. However, the buyer is asked to try and work the issue with the seller first (please see the User Agreement). The buyer should come to us only if they don't get anywhere with the seller (much as how things go today, but the buyer has a stronger chance of recovery).
Hi jackswebb,
The decision to cap reputation numbers was made at the request of some users that gave us feedback. Some wanted to cap it, some did not.
I am currently working numerous forums on questions related to MBG, so I am trying to locate specific concerns. If you have a question...then let it rip...I will try and get back to it as quickly as I can.
posted on September 19, 2002 04:53:48 PM new
I have 326 & received the notification. If I remember correctly, the email mentioned I was selected because mine is a Business Account with merchant rates.
Paypal states "The Money Back Guarantee will only be offered on physical goods ransactions for less than $1,000 with selected sellers.
[ edited by bear1949 on Sep 19, 2002 04:55 PM ]
posted on September 19, 2002 06:37:51 PM new
Thanks Damon, here are my next two questions - 1) Do I need to provide proof I shipped the item if the buyer wants their money back from PayPal? Wouldn't the fact that the buyer HAS the item be proof I shipped it? 2) If the buyer had purchased a MBG from PayPal, what would they need to negotiate with the seller for? Wouldn't the seller be completely out of the loop and the MBG be between the buyer and PayPal? Thanks a lot!
posted on September 19, 2002 08:32:29 PM new
Here's my 3 cents.....You keep saying that the MBG is between Paypal and the buyer.
Then:
Why did you automatically opt me in ?
I have had over 15,000 Ebay transactions and offered FREE Guaranties on about 14,900.
Why do my buyers need your Payfer guarantee ??
If they are paying and I am part of the program where is my cut ??
If I am not getting paid what's in it for me ??
If nothing is in it for me why should I opt in.(Other than to aid & abet you in this new money grab.)
If none of my 15,000 transactions have resulted in one single person being ripped off why are you charging them 6% on my transactions when your exposure based on my track record is 0%.
Lastly don't you think that the sellers are tired of Ebay and Paypal unilaterally enrolling them into these new unannounced money grabbing schemes without the slightest bit of notice or consultation.
PS:I will welcome the day when you start competing against me as a seller with the crap you accquire from this ill thought of useless program.
PSS:I have already opted out.
posted on September 20, 2002 10:29:17 AM new
Damon: I am confused ... most 'good' sellers already refund their buyers for returned goods. [... and it's always a hassle to get an item back, refund, then relist it.] ... this MBG situation is actually something i, as a seller, might want to buy FOR all of our buyers, so then if they don't 'want' what they received [for whatever the reason], I still have a "sale", and I didn't even have to refund the customer! ... ... ... heck, i would like to 'opt in' for Sellers to buy the MBG for the transaction. [assuming there is no penalizing of the seller by paypal, when paypal honors claims] .... [ARE sellers going to be penalized if buyers send you the stuff we sent them????]
A very high percentage of ebay transactions via paypal go thru without a hitch ... the only times I could see where paypal's mbg offer should be taken by a buyer, would be if they were buying from a seller with very little or no feedback [because there's no track record of their dealing with integrity.] ... if a seller with umpteen hundred or thousand feedback [or paypal transactions] always give their own money-back-guarantee, then why is paypal approaching these sellers about paypal offering mbg instead? ...
What about the sellers that have many feedback, many successful paypal transactions, BUT their auctions read, "this is an auction, you buy this as is, no refunds, no returns" .. there are a lot of sellers i've seen which state that as their policy on all items. ... i would be tempted to start using that as our policy, only mine would read, "Refunds for returned items by paypal.com" and then I'LL pay for their mbg premium. ... eh?
I love this country. ...
Actually this sounds like it is going to be a nightmare/headache for paypal, more than anyone else.
also, Damon ... what criteria of mailings did paypal target to send the info about this new program? ... we have been 'powersellers' for a few years, have used paypal for about as long, [with NO "real" problems either, I'm grateful to report, thank you!] but we were not notified of the new MBG, nor do i see anything about it on my Profile there.
posted on September 21, 2002 06:42:22 AM new
Let's see....A working model 567 Widget sells for $675.
An as-is model 567 Widget sells for $375.
Joe Buyer & his buddy Joe Shiller bids the as-is one up to $975. Paypal insurance costs him $54. Total investment=$1024
He returns it to Paypal obviously it's not working. Paypal refunds him $975.
He buys a working one for the real price of $675 and is left with $300 for champagne dinners.
Since buyers don't have to prequalify for this program,I can see this scenario being repaeted over & over again.
posted on September 21, 2002 06:59:36 AM new
Good point horsey88. I had a neighbor that sold Jeam Beam bottles in magazine ads in the 1980's when they were very popular. He would often by cracked bottles for a few dollars and sell them for the perfect bottle price and then send them via UPS and when the buyer got them with the crack he did the insurance thing and get full value for the bottle. UPS allowed it only a few times but I believe that he had his friends do the same thing. Seller fraud is very common when an opprotunity presents itself.
posted on September 21, 2002 03:51:21 PM new
PAY PAL I CERTAINLY AM NO GENIUS BUT THE LAST THREE REPLIES WANT TO MAKE ME CALL OUT,,,,,,NEED ANY MORE GASOLINE TO THROW ON THE FIRE!!!!!
YOUR PEOPLE BETTER BACK TRACK AND FAST!!!!! LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP,,,,WHY NOT ASK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY IN THE BUSINESS BEFORE YOU DO ANY MORE OF THOSE BRIGHT IDEAS. THE PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS ARE THE PEOPLE RIGHT HERE. THE BEST DEVIL'S ADVOCATE YOU COULD EVER ASK FOR, SO WHY NOT ASK THEM BEFORE YOU POUR THE CONCRETE?
YOU NEED TO SET UP A PAY PAL CHAT BOARD. I MENTIONED THAT OVER 1 1/2 YEARS AGO. UUUUUUU,,,SORRY,,,,,,I AM SURE MILLIONS OF OTHERS HAVE ASK FOR THE SAME THING. THEN WHY HAVEN'T YOU DONE IT?
YOUR END OF AUCTION MESSAGE IS MEANINGLESS, UNHELPFUL. I TOLD YOU HOW TO DO IT 1 YEAR AGO,,,,GOT A A FEW LIVE RELIES THEN RUBBER STAMPS AND THEN ,,,,,,NO REPLIES....
I MAY NOT DO EVERYTHING LETTER PERFECT AS FAR AS GRAMMAR ETC. PUNCTUATION AND ALL THAT. GETTING MY IDEAS OUT BUT THE RIGHT THOUGHTS ARE THERE.
WHY CONTINUE TO EMBARRASS YOURSELF HERE,,,,GET A BOARD ON YOUR OWN SITE.
GET SOME 24 HOUR MODERATORS. STRIKE OUT WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE OR WANT TO HEAR OR LET OTHERS SEE.
posted on September 26, 2002 11:16:14 PM new
Oh my gosh! I got the e-mail. I'm a small-time seller. I ran right to this board to see if any of you had a more specific explanation of the liabilities this presented to the sellers. Thanks so much! I ran right over to Paypal and unchecked the box. Oh my!!!! Oh my!!!!!
My Paypal acct is usually zero, and I can just imagine getting a freeze on it. I have to admit, this scared the daylights out of me.
BTW, I do keep mailing receipts and use Delivery Confirmation numbers. However, I do believe that the buyers would not be happy losing the original shipping fee plus the return shipping fee plus the $6 MBG fee. Wow. They would complain to the sellers.
Also, if the buyer pays $6 for the MBG, why does Paypal require the buyer try to work it out with the seller first? The seller will not appreciate refunding the buyer while Paypal keeps the $6? Shouldn't the $6 go to the seller if the seller willingly refunds the buyer outside of Paypal?
posted on September 26, 2002 11:53:29 PM newalwaysbrokeAlso, if the buyer pays $6 for the MBG, why does Paypal require the buyer try to work it out with the seller first? The seller will not appreciate refunding the buyer while Paypal keeps the $6? Shouldn't the $6 go to the seller if the seller willingly refunds the buyer outside of Paypal?
I was curious about that because it wasn't explained. I did a test with a friend's auction. It was a low priced item that had no bids so I sniped it. I purchased the "MBG" offer from PayPal (91 cents) and completed the payment to him. The next day my friend issued a refund, the total amount was refunded, including the 91 cents I had paid to PayPal for the "MBG". I figure the test cost my friend just a few cents in his listing and FVFs fees. I'll have to buy him a cup of coffee someday.
I ran right to this board to see if any of you had a more specific explanation of the liabilities this presented to the sellers. Thanks so much! I ran right over to Paypal and unchecked the box. Oh my!!!! Oh my!!!!!
I've looked real carefully at the "MGB" and I can't find any increased liabilities for the seller. Am I missing something? Seems like the seller is responsible for sending to the 'confirmed shipping address' to be protected, same as before.
posted on September 27, 2002 07:42:16 AM new
What I see this doing is that it will scare sellers into giving FULL refunds, that includes shipping to the dissatisfied customer.
Paypal is going to reap the benefits for doing nothing.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on September 27, 2002 08:03:09 AM newWhat I see this doing is that it will scare sellers into giving FULL refunds, that includes shipping to the dissatisfied customer.
I already take care of my customers, to the best of my ability, and within reason. I do not see how a customer buying a supplemental insurance from a 3rd party would cause me to do anything. Kind of like the car dealer giving a full refund after the wreck, because the customer bought auto insurance.
[ edited by JACKSWEBB on Sep 21, 2002 03:54 PM ]
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