posted on December 28, 2002 07:03:43 AM new
pointy does not have a merchant account with paypal,none of us who uses paypal has a merchant account with paypal.
paypal has a merchant account with wells fargo bank.
paypal is not a bank,it has an account with a bank to process credit card transactions for us.
posted on December 28, 2002 08:02:00 AM newpointy does not have a merchant account with paypal,none of us who uses paypal has a merchant account with paypal.
Pointy said: payment needs to be via credit card using my merchant account or by bank wire.
He obviously has his own merchant account. I don't recall anyone saying it was with paypal. No matter who his merchant account is with it can be affected.
posted on December 28, 2002 08:05:44 AM new
pointy is an experienced seller,he sees what could go wrong when he hits the refund button.
only paypal can guarantee him that the refund button creates a reverse transaction going to the cardissuer and the cardissuer then credit the cardholder account,netting the 25k charge transaction to a zero balance.
when the true cardholder receives his monthly statement,he will see a zero balance .
if by hitting the refund button,pointy is creating a 25k balance in his buyer account which he can then retrieve by asking for a money order or sending it somewhere else,and if this buyer is not the cardholder,then chargeback will come from the true cardholder,hitting paypal first and then pointy.
too bad we cannot search past threads,there is a thread on how a person makes money by using his credit card and send himself money using paypal,instead of the conventional way of getting cash advance from his credit card issuer which carries a transaction fee .
posted on December 28, 2002 08:15:49 AM new
biskit,
i suggest you read the whole thread carefully.
pointy has a merchant account besides being a paypal member.this is a case of BUY IT NOW on ebay and the buyer has sent him payment via paypal already,pointy has a 25k (less paypal fee) sitting in his paypal account.
one interesting observation-if pointy does not want big ticket transaction to go thru paypal ,then he should use 2 different ebay ids to sell on ebay,one which accepts paypal and allow paypal to insert its logo and payment notice and the other one which does not accept paypal.
bidders do not read all the TOS,when they see buy it now and see the paypal logo,they will assume you take paypal,else why have the logo there?/not every bidder reads each seller tos and learn that he may have the paypal logo and yet for this particular item,he does not want you to use paypal.
in fact pointy creates this nightmare by having the paypal logo on the item page .
posted on December 28, 2002 08:21:53 AM new
biskit,
pointy does not have a merchant account with paypal,none of us who uses paypal has a merchant account with paypal.
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what i am trying to explain is that paypal is not a bank,paypal is a payment service which has a merchant account with wells fargo bank.
none of us who use paypal has a MERCHANT ACCOUNT RELATIONSHIP with paypal because PAYPAL IS NOT A MERCHANT ACCOUNT PROVIDER.
posted on December 28, 2002 09:34:22 AM new
I have noticed that you have been asked twice if the buyer is asking that the item be shipped to a confirmed address. You have not answered.
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.It is a confirmed address, but as the payment was sent in separate payments I'm automatically not covered by PayPal's "protection" policy.
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.The person I'm speaking to is barely literate and with a slavic accent. The e-mails received are perfect English, and very cordial
Being literate means, being able to read and write, it has nothing to do with the ability to speak perfect English.
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.Thank you for the English lesson, you are right. But my point is clear I'm sure to you and all...the person can barely speak English, yet the e-mails are perfect English.
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.In other words Paypal and Wells Fargo may rat you out as a suspected fraudster. It could affect your current merchant account
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I understand that my Paypal account could be temporarily affected. For reasons I don't need to get into here, I am not concerned about my normal merchant accounts.
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.If you hold the money and don't refund, all you are asking for is to be more hooked up in this if it is a scam.
Why would any buyer send a seller a double payment? Who would think they are being scammed then? .
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Twelvepole....I have an established B&M store. I'm an authorized dealer in many high-end products. I've made myself available via e-mail or phone. This bidder is welcome to walk into my store anytime. I've even offered, due to these unusual circumstances, to have my company rent-a-jet pick them up in the Midwest and bring them to me. Meanwhile, the bidder will not even supply me with a phone number to reach them. The implication is that they can not, because they are overseas somewhere. I admit the double payment is odd, but it's due to the bidder ignoring my very clear TOS and thus putting me into a bad security position.
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.Shoes....I'm not being condescending to anyone. I think that you've copped a bit of an attitude due to the amount involved. I come here looking for advice from all. Don't feel that I'm aloof because this is a high-ticket item. This just happens to be my product. My monthly bills are the same as yours. I am not a rich man, money wise at least. I just deal in rich man products.
[ edited by pointy on Dec 28, 2002 10:01 AM ]
posted on December 28, 2002 10:05:16 AM new
we think first then we express our thoughts in either writing or speaking,(or hand language if you are italian or physically handicapped).
it would be rare for a person who can hardly speak english to write in perfect english.
what pointy is suspecting is that this is a ring with different players involved.
once again,my memory is working like an old elephant,there was a thread last year of a seller who accepted paypal payment from a guy in arizona??? who asked the item to be shipped to russia.he even talked to this guy on the phone and yes,he is in arizona??there was around the same time another thread which involved shipment overseas and was caught in time -the shipper (ups) intercepted and returned the goods but seller was still liable for the shipping charge something like 500 dollars.
then around last xmas,there was an ebay seller soliciting other sellers to sue billpoint on shipping designer clothings to eastern european country,billpoint verified all these transactions some of them in 4 and 5 figures and then proceeded to reverse these charges when it found out these are all fraudulent activities,in fact one seller said she gets up in the morning and found billpoint reversed 13,000 plus from her account.
how nice,shows why some of us would rather stay in bed as long as we can.
posted on December 28, 2002 10:18:30 AM newbiskit, i suggest you read the whole thread carefully.
Are you and pointy the same person or do you both just have a problem when someone says something you don't like or understand?
I have never implied or stated in anyway that I thought paypal was a merchant account. I have not seen anyone else on this board do so either. I think that we all know paypal does not issue merchant accounts. I said that fraud could affect pointy's merchant account, which he does have. I suggest you read my entire replies "carefully" and try to comprehend before making anymore stupid statements.
posted on December 28, 2002 10:27:12 AM new,billpoint verified all thesetransactions some of them in 4 and 5 figures and then proceeded to reverse these charges when it found out these are all fraudulent activities
Billpoint like paypal does not verify anything when it comes to the CC holder. When the manure hits the fan they just pass the chargeback down to the seller.
posted on December 28, 2002 10:48:14 AM new
billpoint is worse than paypal,anyone can go up there and key in cc data,as long as the bill to address matches what is on file and the credit limit has not been exceeded and the account is in good standing,the charge goes through.
see,none of these services verify the name of the cardholder,just the bill to address.
posted on December 28, 2002 10:51:56 AM new
Though no one here can possibly be a PayPal expert I have to agree with the others that say to refund the money. It will go back to the cardholder's account. Trai gave you good advice right from the start. Refund, notify PayPal and notify ebay.
And I agree with shop4shoes in entirety and I don't see that they have copped any attitude in their post. If you take the money and transfer it elsewhere you could be in big trouble.
And say this buyer is legit, why should he now send a wire transfer if you are unwilling to refund his first payment until he does so? I would never pay that amount twice without seeing the goods.
posted on December 28, 2002 10:55:23 AM new
BISKIT,
I READ YOUR POST AND I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO STUPIDITY,YOU ARE NUMBER ONE AND I AM NUMBER TWO.
ICHIBAN TO YOU.
[ edited by stopwhining on Dec 28, 2002 10:56 AM ]
[ edited by stopwhining on Dec 28, 2002 10:58 AM ]
posted on December 28, 2002 11:06:36 AM newI understand that my Paypal account could be temporarily affected. For reasons I don't need to get into here, I am not concerned about my normal merchant accounts.
You are more concerned about a Paypal account than your normal merchant account? That is interesting. Most people with merchant accounts could care less what happens with their paypal account unless they are commiting fraud and think it could get back to their real merchant processor.
Shoes....I'm not being condescending to anyone. I think that you've copped a bit of an attitude due to the amount involved. I come here looking for advice from all. Don't feel that I'm aloof because this is a high-ticket item. This just happens to be my product. My monthly bills are the same as yours. I am not a rich man, money wise at least. I just deal in rich man products.
My...my...my...Here you go again trying to be condescending. You know nothing about me. You know nothing about what I sell or the amounts. You certainly do not know what my monthly bills are. Who cares if you are rich or not. You are the only one that has brought that up. I don't think you are aloof, I think that you are full of it.
I know more than a little about the credit card industry and how it works. I have posted on these boards before about it and have even helped people with problems. One of my close relatives is an executive at a major bank that processes credit cards. She has been there for 25 years. Another relative is in the industry at another bank. He has been there for 5 or 6 years. My info comes from them.
we think first then we express our thoughts in either writing or speaking,(or hand language if you are italian or physically handicapped). it would be rare for a person who can hardly speak english to write in perfect english
If what pointy says is true. There could be a ring involved.
It is not that rare for someone that writes very good English to verbally slaughter the language. I see it quite often...with kids in college.
how nice,shows why some of us would rather stay in bed as long as we can.
Why would any buyer send a seller a double payment? Who would think they are being scammed then?
I agree 100%.
There is something called a TMF (terminated merchant file) or MATCH file. It is maintianed by Mastercard. It is used by Visa and on occasion by American Express to determine if someone that has a merchant account ( or is applying for one) has engaged in fraudulent activity or been terminated from processing Mastercard and Visa with another processor.
Once you are on the list it is nearly impossible to get off.
ANY processor of credit cards has to report suspect activity to Mastercard and Visa. In this case the processor would be Wells Fargo. MC & Visa will investigate and contact the suspected merchant's processor (if he has one) and let them know there may be a problem. Once this occurs the merchant's account can be frozen, terminated or put on probation. If the account is terminated the merchant goes on the TMF.
With the amount being so large, in this instance, there is no doubt in my mind that Wells Fargo will start looking at the paypal account to see if the owner has a merchant account somewhere that needs to be investigated by Mastercard and Visa. Wells Fargo is tough when it comes to credit card fraud. The merchant may have done nothing wrong, but the investigations can be nasty.
posted on December 28, 2002 11:07:24 AM new
shall we play patty cake,is it nappy pooh time??
when is mom or dad coming to take us home??
it is just so obvious this is a scam and pointy does not have to hit refund button unless someone can give him an ironclad guarantee that by hitting the paypal refund button ,he is not liable for his lifetime any chargeback in whole or in sum of this transaction.
i will eat my pc and the keyboard if his buyer wires him the 25k with or without the paypal refund.
he is safe with that 25k sitting in his paypal account until paypal is notified either by him or thru chargeback from the cardholder,of course if someone knows how to hack into his account and remove that sum,then it is a different story.
this case has scams written all over the place,in fact i am surprised pointy will invite them to come to his shop and what ,look around and see how many upscale rich man toys he has??
who knows,may be this ring has members in the vincinity and they can now break into his shop.
posted on December 28, 2002 11:16:06 AM newin fact i am surprised pointy will invite them to come to his shop and what ,look around and see how many upscale rich man toys he has?? HE! HE!
posted on December 28, 2002 11:32:13 AM new
I totally agree. I have been frauded before with some "buyers" from over seas. Hit the refund button. If this is indeed a legit deal, this buyer will use your merchant account.
On your caller id problem, there is now a feature that you can add to your phone service that forces the caller with caller id blocking to un block their number in order to complete the call. Not that expensive of a service. I would suggest getting it asap.
posted on December 28, 2002 12:48:10 PM new
I understand that my Paypal account could be temporarily affected. For reasons I don't need to get into here, I am not concerned about my normal merchant accounts.
You are more concerned about a Paypal account than your normal merchant account? That is interesting. Most people with merchant accounts could care less what happens with their paypal account unless they are commiting fraud and think it could get back to their real merchant processor.
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I don't think you are aloof, I think that you are full of it.
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.I didn't say that I was concerned about my Paypal account. In fact, in earlier posts I said I was not concerned about my Paypal account. Your thought that I am full of it is causing you to read something into this that's not there. What could my motivation be for being full of it? I'm well known and have been posting here for years. Contributing and helping the community. I come here looking for advice, not confrontation. With your experience, which I take at face value as you state it, your advice is valuable. It's even more valuable if it's not clouded by the thought that I may be full of it. I ask as I did in the original post that you and all just trust me on this one, that it's a scam, and advise accordingly.
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.I would discourage stopwhining from being confrontational as well. This thread will deteriorate into something worthless. Whining has hit on the main point......is there anyone that can 100% guarantee that if I hit the refund button that somehow when this mystery scam unravels I won't be liable for a chargeback down the road. I understand that normally a refund goes back to the cc holder, but this situation is not normal. If it was real, wouldn't a normal buyer get on the offered Lear Jet, which can be at an airport 10 minutes from where they claim to be, on 2 hours notice, anytime they want. And have them back and forth in 6 hours. I am inclined to wait until Paypal is alerted to the situation by the cardholder, and then deal with it when I'm sure I'll have the attention, and the guarantee I'm safe, coming from PayPal's top people.
[ edited by pointy on Dec 28, 2002 12:50 PM ]
posted on December 28, 2002 02:14:26 PM new
If you refund the money, it is now Paypal's issue. It is their responsibility to credit the payment source. When you purchase something from a retail store and return it, they credit it in the original tender, be it cash, credit card, etc.
How can you be held responsible for a chargeback when you received a net of $zero dollars? You can't pay back what you never took possession of in the first place.
posted on December 28, 2002 03:16:01 PM newIf it was real, wouldn't a normal buyer get on the offered Lear Jet, which can be at an airport 10 minutes from where they claim to be, on 2 hours notice, anytime they want. And have them back and forth in 6 hours.
Many normal people do not fly. I find nothing odd about that. Send them a limo, most people will ride in a car. Tell them to bring a friend or two. They may be suspicious of you since you have the money, the goods and want more money. Not much trust left now anyway, if they are legit.
posted on December 28, 2002 03:22:47 PM new
Pointy, you must be a Powerseller.
My advice is to post your same message to the Power Seller Discussion Board. You are more likely to find other Power Sellers there who have gone through similar situations.
To me, reading your story, it sppears obvious the eBay id is stolen, and probably the matching Paypal account. To support my point, this week I had a customer (one whom I have met at the conferences) call me long-distance at home to beg me for my Power Seller phone number. He is a buyer only with feedback of over 1000. His password was figured out somehow, and his account was used to list high ticket BIN items.
It is a long story and I won't finish because I am sure you get my point. I am a Power Seller who now has intimate knowledge of this type of situation. So post your story to the Power Seller Discussion Board and you will find other Power Sellers who have experienced what you are going through.
posted on December 28, 2002 03:47:22 PM new
there is really one party he needs to inform,if he has not done so already,it is paypal.
paypal will find the transaction,look up the bank issuer of this credit card,call the bank and ask them to contact the cardholder.
cardholder will say no such thing,i did not buy any 25k item on ebay.
paypal can choose to remove that 25k from his account and return it back to the cardissuer directly without going thru the buyer paypal account,with a memo to pointy that it has done so.
but i am afraid this is not the end,knowing how paypal and ebay operate,they will inform FBI and someone will pose as a delivery man and have a fake package delivered to the buyer and have him arrested.
if they pull this kind of sting,then they may need pointy and the other ebay seller (there is another ebay seller who has received buy it now from the same buyer) to email the buyer and said WOULD YOU BE HOME AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME,BECAUSE I AM SENDING THIS ITEM THRU A CARRIER??AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU SIGN FOR IT.
if so,then pointy better stop inviting him to come to the shop on a jet!!
posted on December 28, 2002 04:29:47 PM new
hotcupoftea: I am a powerseller and I think that many who post to these boards are also...at least that is the impression I get from their tales of woe.
posted on December 28, 2002 05:43:13 PM new
hello,my friend pointed me to this board and asked me to read some threads,all i can say is that i find some of the situations/discussions incredible,incredulous and ??
why would a retailer who sells rich man toys and use leased/private jet to fetch customers sell on ebay with paypal logo and buy it now 25k??
and asking what to do from sellers who sell costume jewelry and books and ???
a retailer of such status would know all the tricks in the books when it comes to scams and cc frauds??
is this a competitor of paypal trying to find out how paypal works??
april i is more than 4 months away,folks!!
posted on December 28, 2002 07:10:15 PM new
and asking what to do from sellers who sell costume jewelry and books and ???
a retailer of such status would know all the tricks in the books when it comes to scams and cc frauds??
is this a competitor of paypal trying to find out how paypal works??
april i is more than 4 months away,folks!!
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I am known on these boards, unlike you. I like Paypal and I've never had a problem with them. Just trying to make sure this isn't my first problem. I don't think that they have any serious competition, just as Ebay has no serious auction competitors. I do think that I know a lot more than most about scams and cc frauds, but only a fool thinks that they know it all. As I said in the first sentence of my original post, I thought that this was directed more to the sellers of high ticket items, and there are some of those on these boards. Good advice can come from others though. The poster who had some knowledge of the credit card industry added something, and he/she may be a seller or buyer of corkscrews, what's the difference.
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.Also, thank you tea for your advice
posted on December 28, 2002 07:43:50 PM new
now i need some advice.
what should i do when bill gates call and want to buy trinkets from me??
and what if warren buffet orders something and complain about high shipping??
and donald trump wants to sell me a unit in trump tower .
and i really want to marry prince charles but ted turner called and propose??
should i hold out for better deals??
advice please!!!!
posted on December 28, 2002 08:15:24 PM new
Did you state in the auction TOS only bank wire and no paypal? Was paypal listed as a payment option toward the top of the auction?
HE! HE!