posted on April 3, 2003 04:56:20 AM new
This bidder objects to using the AW checkout...his reasoning?
"im not a big fan of filling out checkout forms or staying online for
any prolonged amounts of time."
It was immediately obvious to me that he had visited the Checkout because his email was directed to me by name, and came through my Yahoo mail not thru my mailstep addy. He had to get that info from the Checkout page. I think he decided he wanted me to do the "paperwork" for him. He could have used those keystrokes to finish the checkout instead of whining about "prolonged amounts of time" online.
Prolonged??? The only thing prolonging this transaction is his arrogance. I politely replied that the checkout was quick and easy, and would result in his order being processed and shipped faster.
His reply?
"so filling out checkout is mandatory to complete this
transaction?..."
I made no effort to reply to that...I had given him an answer in the previous email and I was not in the mood for a battle of "wits." A recent spate of Deadbeat Bidders has left me with little tolerance for nitwits lately, I guess...
But my TOS does state that the winning bidder should use the AW Checkout.
So he has not paid for this auction, which ended Sunday night. All the other winning bidders have paid and received their items already! I ship first thing Monday morning to people who've made payment immediately after Sunday night auction endings, so the only thing "prolonging" this is his refusal to Checkout.
Am I being unreasonable here? I'm probably going to just go through the NPBA and FVCF process if he insists on being stubborn about it.
BTW, this clown has a big goose egg and shades next to his new eBay ID....ya think he's done this all before????
posted on April 3, 2003 05:28:31 AM new
I know how you feel, basically same thing happened to me last week. When someone does this it kinda throws a kink in the process. I was not a fan of online checkouts either, (since joining AW now I see different).
I think some people want a more "personal" experience from the seller, and not (what they feel) would be an automated one. I know my reasons for not caring for them was I didn't trust them. I thought, well here goes, I'll go through this thing and the seller will probably never see it, and I won't get the item I won. I was very skeptical of the whole thing.....now I see the reasoning behind it.
Personally I would go ahead and try to make a happy customer out of him, and maybe later he will buy more from you and start using the checkout.
Just IMHO, good luck.
posted on April 3, 2003 05:58:27 AM new
Maybe it's just me, but I figure if you're gonna buy online you oughta plan on filling out a Checkout form.
"Yeah, you should refuse to accept his money. That should teach
him a lesson!"
Like I said, he's got a big fat goose egg and shades behind that shiny new eBay ID....I suspect there's nothing I can teach this guy. He's been there before.
posted on April 3, 2003 06:10:09 AM new
As a buyer, I won't complete a checkout. If the auction says it's mandatory, I simply won't bid.
Why should I give my information to some third-party service that I don't know?
Yeah, yeah - since I'm posting here, obviously AW/Vendio has my information. But I won't fill out their checkout either. Why?? Because I strongly suspect some sellers are using this to compile databases (without my knowledge or consent) which they use to send emails regarding other auctions of theirs. There's about six sellers that regularly send me emails about auctions they are running. Well, I don't care!! I don't want their emails. And I'm going to start turning them into ebay. I'm sick of it.
As a buyer, just put a link in your auction or send me your email address so that I can pay through PayPal. (Or send me a physical address so that I can send a check.) My information is already there - why should I have to enter it again in some checkout and then go to PayPal to pay??
You have to make it easy for the buyers. Checkout is just an extra step to them - and many will refuse to do it.
If you *insist* that they do it - make sure you say that in the auction.
posted on April 3, 2003 07:06:31 AM new
I shop online all the time. I have no problem filling out a checkout for a fixed price site.
But I *WILL NOT* do it with an auction purchase.
Giving payment info through a third party is just a little extra added risk to an already risky venture. And yes, auciton purchases ALWAYS include a small element of risk.
Not to mention the added chance of getting still yet more SPAM.
If you are going to REQUIRE checkout, state it in your TOS, so bidders like yours and myself can stay away. If you don't have it in your TOS, then accept the usual payments like other good eBay sellers.
posted on April 3, 2003 08:48:32 AM new
All of my bidders that use the checkout get a receipt for their purchases with hand signed "thanks for your purchase".
Those that choose not to use the checkout do not receive a receipt.
posted on April 3, 2003 08:53:03 AM new
As a seller, I do not use checkout. I list several hundred items a week and sell about 30%. I still fill out the address label myself on each one.
WHY? Because as a buyer I loath and detest checkout. I only bid on items that use Paypal. Paypal already has my info so why would I want to fill out some other form? My time is as valuable as the seller's and I simply will not bid if they say checkout mandatory.
If they don't say it in their ad, but they send an email saying "Don't just go through Paypal, you must use my checkout" I simply pay with paypal anyway and that is that. I send a polite message stating I do not use checkout!
Sorry, but that is how I feel and many many more. No matter how great some of the sellers think they are, you are not Sears, and if I want that kind of hassles I will just buy from a store!
Edited to add: I make at least 30 online purchases a month. I snipe the auction and I pay as soon as it ends (I also never buy from anyone who does not put the postage in their ad). I need it to be as quick and easy as possible so I can move on to selling.
posted on April 3, 2003 09:31:24 AM new
I know many of my bidders don't like to use checkouts.
The few times I have sent checkout links to my buyers, I've always give them the option of emailing me their information and skipping the checkout process.
Some people won't even provide their address by email and instead mail their info with the payment.
It's a bit of a pain, but as long as they pay it's fine with me.
I find that by sending a "personal" wbn, the buyer is a bit more friendly and understanding of any problems that might arise.
Why make a big deal out of this problem? Just do the transaction the old fashioned, pre-checkout way.
posted on April 3, 2003 12:01:20 PM new
I never use the checkout form. As soon as the auction is completed, I can get the buyers Zip Code, figure the shipping charges & email the buyer with the totals & my mailing address. I informe them of my TOS & send it. It has worked great for me & gives a personal touch to the transaction. As a rule I only run about 12 to 15 auctions a week.
posted on April 3, 2003 12:08:37 PM new
My experience with various forms of "checkout" is that a huge number of buyers truly resent it! Upwards of 50% of my buyers refused to use it!
Thus...I don't use it!
Folks, the idea is to make yer buyers HAPPY about parting with their moola, especially to complete strangers!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
posted on April 3, 2003 12:24:02 PM new
What I love is the buyers who emails(after getting the WBN) you asking for the total including SHI. So you manually figure out(having to re-weight the item as you have already forgotten what it is - or go in WBN to see how much it was), explaining all your TOS etc etc etc. They say thanks I'll use paypal and then fill the darn checkout form out!!!!
Or the SHI is listed right in the auction and they still ask.
I always reply to their emails and try to be as nice as I can but sometimes I just want to scream "Can't you Read" lol
posted on April 3, 2003 12:47:30 PM new
I hate 3rd party checkout systems and avoid auctions that use them. If the seller springs it on me after the auction, they get their payment with my shipping address and I will not fill out the chckout.
If it is stated in the auction and the buyer refuses then the buyer is at fault.
posted on April 3, 2003 12:48:48 PM new
I won't use checkout either when I buy. You say yourself your terms are that they SHOULD used checkout, not that they are required to. If an auction says I am required to, I won't bid. If it says that I can or should, then I won't. If there are no terms and I get sprung with using a checkout system, I won't then either. If you don't want to sell to me, no problem, I will neg you though and I couldn't care less if you give one back on my buying account. I would probably also report you to ebay for not sending me an invoice.
I honestly can't see sellers who when asked for an invoice on an item, why not just give it. You could have probably processed the transaction in the time that you are spending complaining about it here...
posted on April 3, 2003 01:09:55 PM new
I had one buyer go through the entire AW checkout, send payment by paypal and then email me that all the info in the checkout was fictitious and to use the paypal name and address...
it was a long, lecture type of email about how dare I want him to put his info in a strange web site...I laughed for 3 days!
posted on April 3, 2003 01:28:53 PM new
As a buyer I LOVE checkouts. Many will take you directly to PayPal and everything is filled in. A few sellers I buy from on a regular basis have checkouts, and it takes less than a minute for me to get through the process and pay. Usually my item is shipped the same day, and always at least by the next day. Meaning I get my item faster, and I don't waste time emailing back and forth.
I don't need personal touches or companionship from my sellers. I just want my stuff. When I come across a non-checkout seller I feel like I stepped back in time to another century. It is so slow. LOL. Maybe I need to cut back on the caffeine.
As a SELLER I just switched to AuctionSage for post-auction management, which is great, but which does not have its own checkout. It will pull the info from eBay's system, though, so at the end of an auction I have the buyer's name and address (of record), plus shipping and insurance. They can use eBay's Checkout system (I almost choked when I decided to do that---oh, how the mighty have fallen), or if they pay with PayPal, I just compare the address with their PP confirmed addy. No more cut and paste, no more typing in by hand, no more back and forth, no more getting fooled by International bidders or local bidders who need to pay Sales Tax. All the info is there immediately after auction end.
And, AuctionSage works with Endicia, so all I do is press "Send Address to Dazzle" and up pops my Dazzle shipping screen, which verifies the address, adds Zip+4, adds the shipping method, and waits for me to enter the weight. Boom, print that puppy and I'm off to the races!
I still use SpareDollar to prepare my auction ads (another GREAT program), but I'm tickled with AuctionSage in the post-auction management department. If those two companies would merge, I'd be in Heaven.
MPI
(not affiliated with either company, just a happy customer)
posted on April 3, 2003 04:40:22 PM new
I avoid all auctions with 3rd party checkout if I possibly can. Yesterday I won one and unexpectedly ended up having to use a "mandatory" AW checkout. My fault I didn't read the TOS... well I started to, but it was 8 miles long and the auction was ending in minutes. What PITA when all I really wanted to do was pay the clown with PayPal and move on.
posted on April 3, 2003 08:54:41 PM new
Any seller that is using manditory checkout gets a manditory negative from me. The main problem with this sleezy way to do business is it hides the location of the seller from the buyer. I personally want to know where my money is being sent. I also want some personalization in an e-mail to confirm that the transaction is being personally attended to. Check out should be outlawed and lazy powersellers that use it all deserve negatives. If a seller doesn't have the time to personally e-mail me, then I personally don't have the time to send the payment.
[ edited by stonecold613 on Apr 4, 2003 04:19 PM ]
posted on April 4, 2003 03:56:22 AM new
The bidder received a payment reminder from AW (automated, of course...I'm a "lazy powerseller"and emailed me again with a plea to use PayPal directly. After seeing the reaction to my post, I must say I never realized bidders have such an aversion to using the Checkout!
I never use my buyers' checkout info to spam, harrass, send fan mail, whatever....I simply use the checkout to process an order as fast as possible. My feedback is full of comments from folks about my lightning fast shipping, and I pride myself on that. I work a full-time job in the "real" world and, in order to handle the 20 - 30 auctions I run a week, I rely on AW Sales Manager system. My customers also appreciate the follow-up emails and never feel as though they are "in the dark" about the status of their order.
So....I took all your comments into consideration and apologized to my bidder for they delay, saying I had forgotten about his request to pay thru PayPal directly, and gave him the info he needed. A small white lie, but I needed time to digest all the constructive criticism. I sincerely thank you all for your comments. I admit to having been the unreasonable one in this situation.
I am considering re-enabling the PayPal link in my listings, although I was less than enthused about it when I tried it previously. I does make for some extra copy, cut, and paste, and it allows the customer to enter their own shipping costs....which a few of them took great leeway in doing... Any comments on enabling this PayPal link?
[ edited by shething on Apr 4, 2003 03:58 AM ]
[ edited by shething on Apr 4, 2003 03:59 AM ]
posted on April 4, 2003 04:10:55 AM new
I have my paypal link enabled in the auction and love it. But I understand that shipping can be the problem.
Most of my stuff is small or books/tapes (which can be sent via media mail). So I put the postage amount in the auction. Have not had any problems doing it that way.
But when I had some larger stuff, I said that shipping would be 'X' if you lived east of the Mississippi and 'Y' if you lived west of the Mississippi. This worked (close enough) for me because I live on the East Coast.
There's no one 'correct' answer. It depends where you're located, how you ship and what you're selling. Good luck.
posted on April 4, 2003 05:00:43 PM new
Hi Shething.
Whether or not you are "unreasonable" depends on what type of business clientelle you want your business to have. If you are desperate to sell on ebay at all costs no matter how much work it brings you, and you have no hesitation to bow and scrape to the auction crowd mentality, then you are, in fact, probably being unreasonable. By all means either fill out their forms for them or dump checkout and hold their hands with personal emails or anything else they want however they want it.
The comments about buyers not doing checkouts because they don't want to be in the sellers "system" is groundless. Once a seller gets a person's contact information they are already in that seller's "system" with or without a checkout, and it is up to the seller to be ethical about whether the customer gets solicited with unwanted emails etc. As a buyer, I rarely get solicited by sellers with checkouts, but I commonly get solicitations for future auctions from sellers I purchased from without checkouts. I put right in my WBN only the 3 short things the checkout requires and a promise that they cannot be added to mailing lists without their specific request or sign up.
On the other hand, there is no bonafide ecommerce site nowadays that does not require a brief trip to a secure form for mailing info and payment arrangements. If you want to develop a reeputation as an ecommerce site that has top service and merchandise competitive with other internet real businesses, then insist on the checkouts-- you are not being the least unreasonable. The stuff about not liking checkouts is an ebay thing. No real internet business tolerates foolishness like that. How far would a customer on the internet get whining to Home Depot or Williams Sonoma or Sharper Image that they don't like to fill out checkout forms?!!!
I am not as blunt as the guy who put in his description "If you can't take 3 minutes to fill out our form, don't bid!!!" I do split the difference for a first time bidder who tries to end around it. I explain why I use the checkout for better service to them, and offer to fill out their form for them on a one time basis since they are new to the site, but that they will be expected to use the checkout if they bid in the future. Some don't like checkouts because they don't know how to paste a link and won't say so --calling attention to the shopping cart button on the closed page is great for overcoming that.
I love vendio checkout!!! And when I'm done I have gleaned out a customer base who gets through the whole auction process in 2 minutes without me even being at the computer. They are happy, I am exceedingly happy, and I don't have to deal with people whining about checkouts.
It just depends on what kinds of customers you want and how much it is worth it to you.
posted on April 4, 2003 05:08:06 PM new
PS. I also frequently add personal additions to the default emails before they go out, and the buyer gets my full contact information from the checkout before they mail payment. I never have a situation where the buyer doesn't know where they are sending their money, or feel like they got no personal attention.
posted on April 4, 2003 05:41:46 PM new
OK, I get most of the pros and cons discussed here for checkout. Except one position doesn't make sense.
You're worried about getting SPAM because you fill out a checkout form? Well, my guess is that most eBay sellers don't send SPAM. And those that do send SPAM, they have your email address anyways! Heck, they might just go through and enter the information for themselves. They still have your email address. Whether they SPAM you or not has ZIP, ZILCH, ZERO with whether or not you fill out the checkout form.
As for those buyers who refuse to fill out the form or want some personal attention, that's fine. But most serious sellers probably will not bother to give that personal attention for a <$10 item. And buyers who want personalized attention for $5 items, and refuse to fill out forms, are nothing more than big pains in the rear. People who sell 100 items a day can't spend 5 minutes attending to each order.
posted on April 5, 2003 06:14:53 PM new
jrome - You said
"You're worried about getting SPAM because you fill out a checkout form? Well, my guess is that most eBay sellers don't send SPAM. And those that do send SPAM, they have your email address anyways! Heck, they might just go through and enter the information for themselves. They still have your email address. Whether they SPAM you or not has ZIP, ZILCH, ZERO with whether or not you fill out the checkout form."
You're right - most ebay sellers don't send spam. And buyers don't object to the *seller* having their info - obviously the seller needs the address, etc. But what about the third-party checkout service? What are *they* doing with this information?
Also, if a seller is making up a spam list, I at least don't want to make it easy for him.
If a seller insists that you use a checkout, that's their right. But they need to disclose it in the auction.
posted on April 5, 2003 08:37:10 PM newThe stuff about not liking checkouts is an ebay thing. No real internet business tolerates foolishness like that. How far would a customer on the internet get whining to Home Depot or Williams Sonoma or Sharper Image that they don't like to fill out checkout forms?!!!
I don't think that's a great analogy.
For one thing, if I don't want to fill out The Sharper Image's checkout form, I simply call their 800 number to place the order.
eBay buyers don't have this option. So your analogy is false.
I order my packaging supplies (which I spend about $3,000 a year on, alas) from a huge vendor in Los Angeles who has a very elaborate Web page. Unfortunately, their checkout system doesn't work with Netscape (I refuse to use IE). I've complained and complained, to no avail. But they will happily accept a phone, fax or mail order from me.
That's all the other buyers are arguing for: some flexibility in finishing up their end of the transaction.
shething: You are that rare creature...a person who posts to this forum asking for advice, actually reads it and decides to change a behavior as a result. Hats off to you.
--
"I'm thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said `I drank WHAT?'"
posted on April 5, 2003 08:49:30 PM new
I agree, and even if a company was stupid enough to do business this way (online form only) I am not committed to purchasing anything, I can take my business anywhere else. When it is an ebay auction, I am legally bound to follow through with the purchase, but I am not legally bound to use a checkout system.
Anyway, I echo your thoughts on the seller who asked for advice, got it, and changed the way they do things. That does seem rather rare, usually people post here just to #*!@ and complain, and then when you give a different point of view, they dig down further and hold on to their position...
posted on April 6, 2003 05:05:07 AM new
This and other "problems" with buyers who won't conform exactly to the seller's preferences, but who are willing to pay for the item they won, should (IMHO) be viewed in light of this simple question: "Why are you listing items on eBay - to sell them and make money, or to make willing buyers jump through your personal hoops?"
posted on April 6, 2003 10:32:56 PM new
A person can take their business elsewhere on ebay, too. No one is required to bid on an auction.
Why is this such a sensitized topic? Online forms are a routine part of internet ecommerce, and the Vendio form is the most benign of them all--and it only has to be filled out once. After that it is prefilled out for a repeat customer: only needs one click for postage choice, and one click either for the payment method or to hit the paypal logo and pay-- much less than the ebay checkout which nobody seems to rant and rave against if a seller uses that.
I am relatively new to ebay auctions--why is this blown all out of proportion as a major insult to the buyer? Is it just an attitude among ebayers that "Nobody is going to tell ME what to do!" or is there something more primeval going on here that I just don't get?
Why is there no limit to how far the sellers are held over a barrel to jump through every individual buyer's hoop and personal preference even for a $5 item, but electing to do business with an ecommerce checkout is considered so unreasonable (even if it is the only request made of a buyer for excellent and faster service) that it warrants what is almost hate mail being posted here?
Would you all really automatically give negative feedback to any seller who used a checkout for their auctions(like in an earlier post here) if the seller gives fast wonderful service with a quality product? Would ebayers like all of you posting here really be so ugly as to bid on an item just to give the seller negative feedback or make the seller miserable with your obstinate refusals just because they asked for checkout use in their ads? Why would you bid?
As a buyer, I have lots of auctions I pass by because there is something about the terms or the payment types, or lack of payment types, or the listing details that I don't like, but I don't get all bent out about it. It's the seller's choice how they want to do business, and it's my choice whether or not to bid.
In answer to the last post, I am not listing on ebay primarily to make money at any personal cost. Nor do I have any hoops other than the checkout for a buyer to "jump" through. I am willing to list on ebay only if I can run an automated ecommerce site with top rate service and a real checkout, and I would rather not have customers who won't use it. Why is that such a big deal here? What's it to anyone how a seller does business if they are not required to bid?
Is there anyone out there who uses checkout and loves it, and has lots of customers who love it? I would like to hear from you on this board thread, too. Because if that can't be done on ebay with Vendio, I lived for decades without ebay and I guess I could do it again if I had to.
and emailed me again with a plea to use PayPal directly. After seeing the reaction to my post, I must say I never realized bidders have such an aversion to using the Checkout!