posted on May 5, 2003 12:02:50 PM new
I have several bank accounts. Some I don't use very often, but I am too lazy to close them.
On Thurdsay, I deposited a $1500 check from another account into a Credit Union account. The teller informs me that there will be a 2 business day hold. I say okay, get my receipt and leave.
When I get home a few hours later, I check the account. There is no reference to the deposit. That is odd, since all transactions post immediately. I check again today and there is still no record of the deposited check. There are records of other transactions that were made since I deposited the check.
I call the bank and the rep tells me the check had been "reversed", but she does not know why. She gives me the teller's direct line and I talk to her.
The teller said that she "reversed" the check, because the account it was written on had insufficent funds. She claimed that she called the other bank to verify the check. There are a couple of problems with that.
1) The other bank was not open when she claimed she called.
2) There were funds to cover that check and many more in the account.
I am going down to close my account. I am more than a little angry. The thing that makes me the angriest is the fact they act as if the transaction never took place. I asked and it will not show up on my statement, my online access or anywhere other than their records. If I did not have my reciept, they could reverse transactions and there would be no proof they occurred.
The relative that normally answers my banking questions is on vacation.
Does anyone know if this "reversed" transaction type thing is common? If so, do other banks handle the accouting as if the transaction never happened.
posted on May 5, 2003 12:13:46 PM new
My bank tried to pull that one on me. It cost them almost $800. I made a deposit at the telle window, got my receipt and left. Clerk reversed the charge with nothing showing in my account (apparently she "lost" the deposit and so reversed it to balance her drawer. I noticed and raised holy hell in and loud and booming voice in the downtown branch on a Friday afternoon. Thanks to the receipt, the were forced to recredit my account for the amount of the "lost" check.Somehow about a month later the check half of the deposit was "found" and returned to me. I deposited the checks and considered the funds a bonus for all of the crap I have put up with from this bank inluding what seemed to be a poorly executed attempt at theft by one of their employees.
[ edited by neonmania on May 5, 2003 12:14 PM ]
posted on May 5, 2003 12:31:52 PM new
This just reeks.
Why call to verify funds, if a hold has been placed on the check anyway?
I have banked with them for a while and have never bounced a check. The check was local. I had funds in the account to cover it even if it were a bad check.
I called the bank the check was written on and they said that no one had called to verify funds on the check.
I hate that credit union and this is the motivation I needed to close the account.
I am filing a complaint against them. This is about the shadiest accounting practice I have ever come accross.
posted on May 5, 2003 12:54:57 PM new
Credit unions used to be about the friendliest place you could put your money.
But many have changed their practices and fees in recent years to "compete" with conventional banks.
I loved my credit union. They provided a low interest rate loan to buy a car (which I paid off way ahead of time). They were always friendly, knew my name and would stretch a point to help me out.
Then the bank-compete management took over. Tellers were hostile, transactions were bungled, fees tripled and the last straw was that I could not get a $5,000 bill consolidation loan because of my mortgage. I explained very nicely to the loan officer that the monthly payment is split between myself and my partner. She said, "Oh, okay" and proceeded to deny the loan anyway. Reason? Mortgage payment too high.
Sayonara, baby.
You're doing the right thing to close the account. Have a heart-to-heart with the branch manager to let them know why.
--
California voters: Be a part of the first-ever successful gubernatorial recall! Defy media pundits! $21 million of our money is going down the tubes daily because of our incompetent corrupt governor. Visit http://www.recallgraydavis.com to download your recall petition.
posted on May 5, 2003 02:27:14 PM new
Hostile doesn't even begin to cover the wenches that work at this credit union.
I once picked up an application for their credit card while the teller was doing a transaction for me. I turned it over to make a note about something and the teller snatched it out of my hand. She said: "Those cost money. If you need to write on something use a scap piece of paper." Needless to say, they didn't get my credit card business.
A relative of mine was in a car accident. While he was in the hospital his account became overdrawn for $28 and a few cents. When he got out of the hospital and got his mail he immediately paid them. He went in a few days after that and wanted to deposit a bank check for $190,000. They refused to accept the deposit. They had closed the account, because of the $28. They would not allow him to reopen it. They were real nasty about it too. He had banked with them for 6 years. He went one block away to a bank and got as* kissing service and all kinds of perks. They were overjoyed to have his money.
posted on May 5, 2003 03:18:31 PM new
fluffy said,
and the last straw was that I could not get a $5,000 bill consolidation loan because of my mortgage. I explained very nicely to the loan officer that the monthly payment is split between myself and my partner. She said, "Oh, okay" and proceeded to deny the loan anyway. Reason? Mortgage payment too high./////////////////////////////
bankers do not hold hands,they do not take a walk with their client on the beach under the moonlight.
they analyse your credit worthiness.
unless you can divide the house in two and get 1/2 of the mortgage under your name,YOUR MORTGAGE PAYMENT IS TOO HIGH!
posted on May 5, 2003 05:43:06 PM new
stopwhining: You seem to be confused about what a credit union is. Since you obviously hail from a non-English-speaking country, I'll explain.
A credit union is an institution owned *by its members* that accepts deposits *from its members* and loans money out *to its members*. It is most emphatically NOT A BANK. That is by design. Credit unions are set up to serve a select membership; there are few credit unions that Joe Random Passerby can join. (However, I do currently belong to one such.) Usually you qualify for credit union membership by working for a certain employer, or by being a member of a professional association.
Credit union staff are not bankers. They are there to serve the membership. So there is absolutely no excuse for lousy, hostile or abrupt treatment from a credit union employee.
--
California voters: Be a part of the first-ever successful gubernatorial recall! Defy media pundits! $21 million of our money is going down the tubes daily because of our incompetent corrupt governor. Visit http://www.recallgraydavis.com to download your recall petition.
posted on May 5, 2003 05:45:04 PM newunless you can divide the house in two and get 1/2 of the mortgage under your name,YOUR MORTGAGE PAYMENT IS TOO HIGH!
That is hogwash. Most Banks, mortgage companies, etc, use a debt ratio formula, combined with credit scores to decide if a customer qualifies for a loan.
The debt ratio amount varies from institution to institution. However not taking the fact that Fluffy's partner is paying 1/2 the mortgage is very odd. At the very least that fact goes under "other income", which could bring the debt ratio down to acceptable levels. This bank is either using a unique system to approve loans or Fluffy's debt is sky high. From reading Fluffy's posts, I suspect the bank is the problem. Banks have their own little quirks.
Years ago my grandmother was not allowed to co-sign for a loan for my cousin. The bank said she was "too old". Her money in that bank was pretty old too. She had been a customer for over 30 years. The amount she had in that bank could have covered a 100 loans. She took her money out. Her new bank was happy to let her co-sign a loan for my cousin.
posted on May 5, 2003 06:00:02 PM new
fluffy,
very astute observation.i hail from a place where banks make the most money,at one time the year end bonus for bank employees ran from 3 months of salary to 3 years of salary.
Just think,work one year and get 4 years worth of pay.
anyway,with my luck,i end up working for us banks and manufacturing companies,one just happens to have a credit union,also has the most powerful union in this country-UAW.
anyway,just because you are a member does not mean they should risk the fund of other members.
the person who is responsible for processing your loan and reviewing your credit worthiness would apply certain criteria.
your partner paying for half the mortgage is something which is expressed verbally,to a credit officer,it is no different than me saying my grandma will die soon and leave me with a multi million dollar portfolio,or i am very sure to land this sales contract with IBM and get my six figures commission.
You need to give her the hard facts in black and white,chop your house in two and ask your partner to get his own mortgage of that half of the house and you will refinance yours ,this is one sure way to show her your mortgage payment is no longer too high.
posted on May 5, 2003 06:07:28 PM new
shop4shoes,
other income would be alimony and child support payment as dictated by the court.
other income would be dividend and interest income from investment portfolio as shown on current brokerage statement in that person's name.
i doubt ebay income is considered as other income by lender,or happy birthday money from mom,dad,aunt and uncle?/
or selling Kool aid /lemonade or mowing your neighbor's lawn or raising hens in backyard and selling the eggs.
posted on May 5, 2003 06:36:01 PM new
Stop - If eBay money is good enough for me to have to pay taxes on it, it damn well should be good enough to be considerd by a bank. You seem to have a habit of assuming that all sellers are hobby sellers. There are a great deal of us that actually make a living at this.
posted on May 5, 2003 06:47:12 PM new
we are talking about the lenders,not me.
i doubt if you can walk in and get a loan just on your ebay income.
however,a retailer with a brick and mortar store can add his ebay income to his store income when applying for credit.
posted on May 5, 2003 06:51:59 PM new
Stop - as a SP my income is verified via banking deposits and tax returns. I could be an ebayer, hot dog vender or prostitute. They approve your income as proven by history, not your profession.
posted on May 5, 2003 06:52:09 PM new
by the way,i did make some good money during the go go years of ebay and i used it to furnish my new house,it paid for the window blinds,ceiling fans,furniture from discount stores and resale stores,garage door opener plus installation ,backyard sodding,a 1000 sq ft patio and misc tools and hoses.
but when i told my friends who come to see my house that i paid for all these with my ebay income,they just pointed a finger at me and laughed and LAUGHed AND LAUGHed.
they are still laughing!!
posted on May 5, 2003 06:52:20 PM new
[i]other income would be alimony and child support payment as dictated by the court.
other income would be dividend and interest income from investment portfolio as shown on current brokerage statement in that person's name. i doubt ebay income is considered[/i]
Hogwash again. Income is anything that regulary gives you money. The definition of regulary varies from lender to lender. Some lenders want to see the income for at least 6 months. Most want to see at least a year of that income. A roomate paying half your bills is income. A partner paying half your mortgage is income. Selling at a lemonade stand is income. Selling on ebay is income. It just depends on how long the income has been flowing in. It does not matter if it is a hobby or not. Many loan apps now ask if someone else contributes to the mortgage payment.
My ex and I had a duplex. We rented one half of the duplex for more money than the entire mortgage payment. When I left he got a roomate. Both the renter and the roomate were considered income by the banks.
Oh and gift money from relatives is condidered income. If that income comes in regularly. My cousin's gorlfriend has been getting a $5000 cahsiers check every year for her birthday from her mother since she was 18. She is now 27(?). Their mortgage company considered that income after she proved she got it every year. My cousin's ebay "hobby" money of about 3 grand a year was also considered income.
When I got my mortgage and I mentioned I sold online and in retail stores. They asked if I sold on ebay. I said "sometimes". They asked for copies of my ebay account statements. My mortgage company considered that income. Eventhough I was not relying on it to get my mortgage.
I am sure many others have had the same experience when getting a mortgage.
Money is money and they don't care where it comes from as long as you can prove it comes.
as a SP my income is verified via banking deposits and tax returns. I could be an ebayer, hot dog vender or prostitute. They approve your income as proven by history, not your profession.
posted on May 5, 2003 07:04:07 PM new
I would like to add:
For those of you that sell on ebay and are a little shy about reporting all of your income to the irs, paypal statements are an excellent way to prove income.
When I was shopping for a mortgage, several lenders asked specifically if I used paypal to accept auction payments. They accept the paypal statements as proof of income. One loan officer said that she had approved several people that had internet auction only businesses. She said they were getting many apps from those sellers since the interest rates dropped.
One lender even had loan officers that dealt with nothing but borrowers whose main income was from the net.
PS: Don't be shy about applying for a mortgage if you sell on the net. There are many lenders that will be thrilled with your business. Put that "hobby" money to good use.
posted on May 5, 2003 07:09:59 PM newyour partner paying for half the mortgage is something which is expressed verbally
Huh? Not at all. We own this house in joint tenancy with right of survivorship. The idea being that whoever wins the longevity contest inherits the other person's interest. Yes, dear, that means my name is on the mortgage. And the property tax bill.
The point I was trying to make is that in the first few years I was with this credit union, it wouldn't have even come up. They knew me and knew I had repaid several loans. I really was not expecting to be rejected and to be rejected for a spurious reason made me angry.
--
California voters: Be a part of the first-ever successful gubernatorial recall! Defy media pundits! $21 million of our money is going down the tubes daily because of our incompetent corrupt governor. Visit http://www.recallgraydavis.com to download your recall petition.
posted on May 5, 2003 07:30:48 PM new
my family at one time thought about getting into the banking business.see,making money from the spread,and at times a very profitable business.
bankers/lenders are funny,you have to look at the situation from their perspective???
they love to lend money to people who dont need money!!
i know it makes no sense,but go along with this perspective,play the part -a person who does not need money,it makes THEM sleep well at nite!!
posted on May 5, 2003 08:39:25 PM new
Someone gave this advice, and I have some followup:
<i>For those of you that sell on ebay and are a little shy about reporting all of your income to the irs, paypal statements are an excellent way to prove income. </i>
Well, if you are shy about reporting income to the IRS, you should stop being shy, pay your taxes and keep the IRS from prosecuting you. If it's income that can be used to help get a loan (read: profits, not revenue), then it's income you should pay taxes on. Any less is tax evasion, and it's illegal.
posted on May 5, 2003 09:10:53 PM new
Hi
Now this is a very strange happening...........
I had to withdrew 3,000. for a car my son was buying.
Now when I withdrew the 3,000 I counted it infront of the teller before putting it into my bag.
When I returned home the bank called me and said, the girl gave me 950.00 too much.
I said, no she didnt give me too much, I even counted it infront of her and it was 3,000.00 which is what I withdrewed.
Later that evening two police offercers came to my home saying the bank made a complaint and said they gave me $950.00 tooooooooo much, I said no they did not and told them that I counted the money so the teller could see me counting it, and why dont you check your cameras to see that I counted it where she could see me.
They said the camera are not always on, they keep them off lots of the time.
I told them again that I didnt have extra money............The next morning a Detective came over to my house to talk to me about the money that the bank said they gave me, which by this time I have really had enough, I told them if they bother me again I will have my lawyer press charges against the bank and the police station.
The next day the police dept. called me and apologized and told me that they have found that the teller was using me to as her cover to take the 950.00 because I was the only one that day that made a big withdrewal.
NOW FOR THE BEST PART..........my son said he found a cheaper car and he only needed
1,800.00..................CAN YOU GUESS WHAT THAT LEFT ME WITH? ..........THAT NOW I NEEDED TO RE-DEPOSIT INTO MY ACCOUNT.....
yEP.............It left me with $950.00.............lol...........but there was no way I was going to put that back into my account.....I said to my son, do you belive how this is working out..........just because you decided to buy a cheaper car now Im stuck with my own money and I'm afaired to deposit it back in the account.
This was not funny at the time it was happening but weeks later we laughted about it and still laugh about it.
posted on May 5, 2003 09:19:27 PM new
Sorry , the car cost 2,050.00...............NOT 1800.00..............sorry i just couldnt remember ............My son just buys tooooooooooo many cars.......lol
posted on May 5, 2003 09:19:57 PM new
Ton - I would have benn in the bank the minute their doors opened the day after they snt the police to my home in any accusatory manner whatsoever. That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
posted on May 5, 2003 10:26:07 PM newIf it's income that can be used to help get a loan (read: profits, not revenue), then it's income you should pay taxes on. Any less is tax evasion, and it's illegal
I don't know about anyone else, but my mortgage application was painless and simple. They wanted to know about my outstanding debts and my income. The didn't give a darn about profit. In fact that NEVER came up. A person can have an income of $100,000 and no profit. Most banks are interested in the income, not profit. That is why, there are so many forclosures.
Not all income is taxable. Eventhough all verifiable income can be used to get a loan. So you really don't know if it is tax evasion or not. It depends on the individual situation.
posted on May 6, 2003 06:28:47 AM new
income is profit.
gross sales minus returns=net sales
net sales minus cost of services/goods sold=gross profit margin
profit margin less operating expenses=profit from operations before tax
figure how much is tax and you have net profit from operations.
what you show on your paypal statement is your proceeds from selling on ebay less paypal fee,it is your cashflow but not your income or profit.
posted on May 6, 2003 06:31:24 AM new
try preparing your profit and loss statement someday using the above formula,dont forget to include in operating expenses- depreciation of your car,gas and insurance,overhead such as part of garage and home office,and pay yourself 5.00 an hour,and see if you still have a profit.
if you do,i would like to be your lender and help you expand your business
posted on May 6, 2003 07:54:22 AM new
Income is not profit. It can include profits from a business endevor, but it can include many other things.
A paypal statement does show income.
The legal definition of income is broad and is still being hashed out in some courts. It is broad, so the IRS can attempt to swoop down on almost anything.
Following is decent summation defining "income" and the problems with it.
posted on May 6, 2003 08:40:05 AM new
a paypal statement just shows cash coming into your paypal account less paypal fees.
you can argue and said it comes from johna,mary,cindy etc and these are your customers sending you payment of goods sold.
but if you buy an item at 10 and sell it at 9,and paypal shows 9 less fee,how would anyone know if you have a profit or income??just by reading your paypal statement??
posted on May 6, 2003 09:06:12 AM newa paypal statement just shows cash coming into your paypal account less paypal fees. you can argue and said it comes from johna,mary,cindy etc and these are your customers sending you payment of goods sold. but if you buy an item at 10 and sell it at 9,and paypal shows 9 less fee,how would anyone know if you have a profit or income??just by reading your paypal statement??
Why do you keep posting your convoluted thoughts? In particular your guide on how to do a profit loss statement. Shop4, Neon, and FluffyTWC have all put the income concept in simple english. The link Shop4 gave is good too. I suspect that every poster here (except you) understands the difference between, profit and income.
Unless you own a business profit does not come into to play. You keep harping on a point that is moot. The paypal statement shows money coming in. That is considered income by the banks. Period.
If your family has the same problems with these simple concepts, as you do. I am sure we are all sleeping easier that they did not get into the banking business
but when i told my friends who come to see my house that i paid for all these with my ebay income,they just pointed a finger at me and laughed and LAUGHed AND LAUGHed. they are still laughing!!
Of course they laughed. According to your statements on this board the money you made on ebay isn't income.
Now to the important stuff: Shop4, have you closed the account yet? What happene?.
posted on May 6, 2003 09:33:50 AM new
Unless you own a business profit does not come into to play. You keep harping on a point that is moot. The paypal statement shows money coming in. That is considered income by the banks. Period.
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well,i will send myself some money from my cc or bank account and show it to my banker and see what he has to say.
OF COURSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A BUSINESS??
WHY DO YOU THINK WE SELL IN AUCTIONS OR HAVE OUR OWN WEBSITE??
if you dust off an item found in attic and sell it on ebay,what do you call it??
lets say you sold it for 10,what is your cost??
my family is doing very well,thank you
