posted on May 6, 2003 09:50:12 AM new
if i walk into a bank and i said i run an internet business from home- i sell on ebay auctions and i have my own websites,and i then produce my paypal statements,my merchant account statements and bank statementes showing deposits to back up my point,all these add to the credibility of my home business.
just by showing paypal statement,what does it tell him>>that john,mary and cindy have been sending me payments??
why are they sending me payments??
will they continue to send me payments??
what did i do to deserve the payments??
what happens if they stop sending me payments??
would that affect my ability to meet mortgage payments??
may be shop4shoe left out the important part-she showed her paypal statement to tell her banker she has a viable business??
posted on May 6, 2003 10:03:57 AM new
I just got back from the credit union. They were nasty as usual and told me they did not "need to justify", to me, the fact that the "reversed" transaction does not show up in customers' accounts. I told her not to worry. I was filling a complaint with the feds. They have to "justify" it to them within 40 days.
While I was waiting for someone to help me, I told everyone in the waiting area what happened. Two of people were there to open new accounts. They left because of what I told them. MUHHHAAAHHHAAAHAHAHAAAHA!!!!
Stopwhining: You seem to be unable to get over the "profit" issue. It didn't concern ANY banker I dealt with. It didn't concern the lenders that any of my friends dealt with.
My friends have gotten mortages and loans through: Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Ford Motor Credit, Ameriquest and many others, using their ebay or internet income. ALL of the lenders accepted bank statements or paypal statements or both as proof of income. In some cases they used the merchant processing statements for credit cards as proof of income. They never asked about profit. They did not give a hoot about "cost"? You are the only one concerned with that. Since you are not a banker, it really doesn't matter.
well,i will send myself some money from my cc or bank account and show it to my banker and see what he has to say
He will say:
You must think that everyone is as ignorant as yourself. Did you really think we wouldn't notice the large transfer from one of your accounts to another.
may be shop4shoe left out the important part-she showed her paypal statement to tell her banker she has a viable business??
I said I was asked. I never said that I showed my paypal statement to show I have a "viable" business. My bank statements, merchant processing records and tax forms did that. Ebay and the internet is not my greatest source of income.
posted on May 6, 2003 10:21:15 AM new
The U.S. Supreme Court tried to give us a rule of thumb: If the receipt of money or assets increases a taxpayer's wealthy (i.e. net worth), it's income.
////////////////////////////////////
if i buy an item at 10 and resell on ebay at 9,and buyer pays via paypal,does it increase my networth??
posted on May 6, 2003 10:29:12 AM new
Stop is correct re income = profit.
Anyone who files a Schedule C (and we all do, don't we?) knows the difference.
At the top of the Sched C is our receipts.
Then we deduct the cost of doing business (including the cost of purchasing the goods we sol, the shipping costs, etc)
At the bottom of the Sched C is our profit. This is the "income" that is put on page 1 of the 1040 form.
From shop4's link: "If the receipt of money or assets increases a taxpayer's wealthy (i.e. net worth), it's income."
The only thing that increases our wealth is the difference between what we got for an item, and what we paid for it.
That is our profit - our "income".
posted on May 6, 2003 10:29:23 AM newjust by showing paypal statement,what does it tell him>>that john,mary and cindy have been sending me payments??
You are brilliantly stupid. It shows that you have income. The main thing that concerns lenders.
what did i do to deserve the payments??
In your case they probably sent you the payments for not posting on auctionwatch message boards.
Deserve? Geez you are special. What did my friend do to deserve a 12 million dollar trust fund?. What did Kevin (the flop) Costner do to deserve 10 million a movie? Bankers don't give a dam* about what someone deserves.
what happens if they stop sending me payments??
Apparently you will resume posting on the boards. Where do I send my contribution?
may be shop4shoe left out the important part-she showed her paypal statement to tell her banker she has a viable business??
Paypal doesn't make anyone a viable business. It means you get money from someone. Shop4 do you even accept paypal?
I have a mortgage through Wells Fargo. They asked the source of my income. I told them. They asked for proof. 3 months of statements from all of the accounts I wanted considered for income (that included paypal if I wanted to use them as source of income) and some tax papers. I was approved in less than 24 hours. Maybe your credibility needs more help than others.
posted on May 6, 2003 10:40:47 AM new
Grumpy is not wrong.
There are two differnt issues at work here.
What the IRS considers income and what lenders consider income are different.
Lenders consider most money that comes in on a regular basis income. It can be anuallay, daily or weekly. As long as it is regular.
The IRS has differnt standards.
However we don't get our mortgages from the IRS, so their definition is irrelevant.
The discussion turned to lenders. Stipwhining is the one that introduced the profit, ie: IRS element.
The U.S. Supreme Court tried to give us a rule of thumb: If the receipt of money or assets increases a taxpayer's wealthy (i.e. net worth), it's income.
The operative word is tried.
I noticed that you left out a very pertinent piece of that article in your quote.
The net worth definition isn't adequate either: Your gift or inheritance increases your wealth, but it isn't income. Also, if your stock in Federal Express flies as high as its planes, your wealth increases. But this increase isn't taxable until Federal Express pays a dividend or you sell the stock.
MMMMMMM....
Edited to add:
Grumpy: Stop it. We can tell by your comments to stopw that you are in a foul mood. Now play nice.
posted on May 6, 2003 10:41:51 AM new
may be this is the best time since bonnie and clyde-ROB THE BANK .
if bankers are merrily approving loan applications just by reviewing statements of cash receipts,then i pity the enron,worldom executives for working so hard to cook their books.
may be your talents are wasted posting on this board,thats why you are so grumpy,you should be a consultant to CORPORATE AMERICA and get the recognition you deserve.
posted on May 6, 2003 10:47:48 AM new
If *the business* is applying for credit, *the business* must be creditworthy.
The debt ratio for *the business* would be taken into consideration as would it's solvency and priftability.
Nowhere does this thread mention a *business loan*
When a personal loan is applied for, *the client* must creditworthy, have cash flow, etc.
Profit is irrelevant here ~
Don't forget that many successful businesses operate at a loss on paper ~ expenses, depreciation, etc to offset profits.
Lets not open that can of worms again!
re: Incident at the location ~
definitely one that the auditors would be interested in.
posted on May 6, 2003 10:47:49 AM newif bankers are merrily approving loan applications just by reviewing statements of cash receipts,then i pity the
It is more common than uncommon. As long as the house appraises out, the banks know thier investment is secured.
Mortgages are simpler to get than they ever were. My friend offered for a house and closed in less than 3 weeks. It would have been sooner, but the appraisers were backed up.
posted on May 6, 2003 10:50:06 AM new
your house and your fed exp stock rise ,as long as you dont sell them,it is considered unrealised gains,but the govt has a way of sharing in your new found paper wealth,by appraising and taxing your home and like you point out taxing your fed exp dividend.
as for grumpty comment about banker noticing large withdrawal from bank account to fund my paypal balance,i think most of us have more than one bank accounts and no one with a higher iq than you will withdraw from the bank account you intend to borrow from??
posted on May 6, 2003 10:54:15 AM new
Zoomin: You are dead on. No one here mentioned anything about their business applying for a loan. Stopwhing is the one that started the yap-yap about profit.
He either lives in a strange world or has the toughest bankers in this galaxy. The things he mentions were never brought up by any lender I applied with.
Did anyone here have to jump through the hoops that stopw is bringing up to get a mortgage or loan?
posted on May 6, 2003 11:01:34 AM new
true,a mortgage on your house is not a business loan.
but to show your cash receipts from paypal and others as income to obtain a mortgage is stating you receive payments from individuals and these payments will help you to meet the mortgage payment(else why show it??)
i think we are missing an important aspect of this thread-the lender,as long as the lender thinks cash receipts are income and good enough to get a mortgage,why should we even waste our time debating??we should all go and get a jumbo mortgage loan,who said the streets in this country are not paved with gold.??
good bye.
posted on May 6, 2003 11:03:45 AM new
{/i]i think most of us have more than one bank accounts and no one with a higher iq than you will withdraw from the bank account you intend to borrow from?[i]
earlier you said:
well,i will send myself some money from my cc or bank account and show it to my banker and see what he has to say
Your iq must be below grumpy's. Any transfer from accounts will show who owns the accounts. That is why they ask for bank statements. If you have large credit card balances, they will also call the card companies to see if you have gotten any large cash advances recently. You don't have to tell them about those other accounts. There is a good chance they will show up on your credit report or during the verification of your bank statements.
posted on May 6, 2003 11:10:20 AM newDid anyone here have to jump through the hoops that stopw is bringing up to get a mortgage or loan?
Not at all. The funds in the paypal account I have are transferred to one checking account daily. I applied for a loan with the credit union that the checking account is at. They checked my credit and saw how much I transferred over from paypal. I was approved in about an hour. It was much easier than I thought it would be.
posted on May 6, 2003 11:13:51 AM newi think we are missing an important aspect of this thread-the lender,as long as the lender thinks cash receipts are income and good enough to get a mortgage,why should we even waste our time debating??
Not wasting my time. I have my mortgage and I can get any loan I need. You are wasting your time, since you seem to be the only one unable to get loans in a painless manner. You should not be here debating, you should be off looking for new bankers.
posted on May 6, 2003 11:16:29 AM new
Stopwhining, do you have a mortgage? If so how long did it take you to get approved? From your posts here it sounds like when you applied, you had a hard time.
posted on May 6, 2003 11:52:49 AM new
i have a very small mortgage and it is not from a bank or credit union, and i furnish the home with my ebay income.
when i start selling on ebay,i made some good profits,an item which costs me 75 cents could be bidded up to 50 dollars.i keep track of all my sales and expenses and study my profit/loss before tax every month.
gradually i notice i no longer make a good profit,then i come to realise if i recognise all my expenses,i am actually booking a loss.
i stopped playing accountant/bookeeper and just go by cashflow.
lets be very candid since we all sell on ebay and elsewhere on internet,how many of us can honestly say we are making a good profit if we recognise all the expenses including the time we spent and the wear and tear of our car running to the post office or garage sales??
but then like some of you point out,i am not the banker,as long as your banker said paypal receipts are okay,then why not ??
they can always repossess the house .
posted on May 6, 2003 12:05:23 PM new
I can! I don't own, I rent but I pay my bills every month with my ebay income. I work occasional design or consulting projects in order to upgrade my system or feed my appetite for electronics but my day to day expenses are paid for each month directly from my PayPal account.
posted on May 6, 2003 12:10:21 PM newlets be very candid since we all sell on ebay and elsewhere on internet,how many of us can honestly say we are making a good profit if we recognise all the expenses including the time we spent and the wear and tear of our car running to the post office or garage sales??
My situation is different. All items I sell are new. I don't go to garage sales. I ship UPS and the drop-off is 1.5 miles away. I even give packages to the UPS guy when he makes deliveries to us.
I have my own server space and sites. I don't pay anyone for my shopping carts. I think my general net expenses are less than most sellers.
they can always repossess the house
MUHHAHHAHAHAHHHHAA! That is how I got my castle. Foreclosure auction.
posted on May 6, 2003 12:44:55 PM new
how much time do you spend running your website and ebay business?
multiply that by say 3.75 to 5.50 an hour and see how much it comes up to.
how about rent -an office for you and storage for your items??
and dont forget the IPS fee,phone bills .
i sell collectibles and books on collecting,it is not food or medicine,they dont have to have them.
posted on May 6, 2003 01:11:33 PM new
stopwhining,
I think that the GOOD eBay sellers pay VERY close attention to all their expenses and time spent. (It's just not good business not to!) If I'm not making at least $20.00 an hour on any given item... I look for different merchandise to sell. It's really easy to set up a spreadsheet and enter in your expenses, revenue and time to come up with a true hourly rate. Mine was around $40-50 an hour the last time I checked (and yes... that includes the time I spend here for research!) If you can't make a decent hourly wage on eBay... you're right... you shouldn't be doing it! BUT... just because you can't, doesn't mean that others aren't succeeding!
posted on May 6, 2003 01:50:08 PM new
Stopwhining,
No... probably not.... but I'm able to do it partially because I have a good idea of what all my expenses are and keep track of all my time spent on eBay-related tasks. Regardless of how MUCH an hour you make... you should at least keep track of these things so that you know you're making at least minimum wage. Otherwise... why not get a 2nd job at McDonalds or Walmart? And I think that the truly good eBay sellers DO understand their expenses and their time spent. Plus... keep in mind that MANY of the eBay sellers have B&M stores. They HAVE to be there during store hours whether a customer is there or not. If they're able to do all their normal chores (clean, inventory, stock etc...) PLUS list things on eBay... then they're not really investing any additional time... they're just doing a better job of time management. Bottom line is someone who keeps good records can make the judgement call as to whether or not eBay is a worthwhile pursuit for them.
posted on May 7, 2003 12:16:01 PM new
I figure, I must have missed something over here since stopwhining brought up this subject again in another thread.
how much time do you spend running your website and ebay business?
I spend 10-20 hours a week on all my sites. They are easy to update. Shipping is a breeze. I don't sell on ebay anymore.
multiply that by say 3.75 to 5.50 an hour and see how much it comes up to.
I am not sure if you are implying, I make $3.75-$5.50 an hour. If you are, you are waaaaay off base. I profit...yes, PROFIT. Much more than $5.50/hr.
how about rent -an office for you and storage for your items??
I can store about 600 sq feet of items in my house. Without using any of my bedrooms or living space. My mortgage is just over $500 month. That includes taxes and insurance.
Phone is around $40/month. I have not paid for internet access in quite some time (long story). My server bills total around $20 per month.
And to just drive you crazier...When I got my mortgage, I never left my house. I did everything through the internet, email, fax and one overnight letter. I closed in my attorney's office. I didn't have to see one stinking banker.
posted on May 7, 2003 12:28:57 PM new
i think there is a difference in taking the sales ,subtract all expenses and call it your profit,then divide it by number of hours you spent and say you make x dollars an hour.
the correct way to run a busines is to pay yourself a salary and pay your rent and all necessary expenses for running your business,then see how much a profit is left.
if someday you want to hire a person to run your business,this is what you need to pay that person,if you want to have an office outside your home,this is what you will payas rent.
if someday you are so successful and want to sell your business,this is what you show the potential buyer,that your business can pay a salary and overhead and still make a profit.
---
as a owner/operator of your own business,you get paid twice-first as an employee who actually do the work and then as an equity owner of the business,you get to decide how you want to spend your profit-pay yourself a dividend or retain it in your business.
posted on May 7, 2003 12:33:00 PM new
you are not driving me crazy with your ease of getting a mortgage,i was thinking about it last nite that you are loaded with diamond tiara and fed exp stocks that lenders trip over each other to have your business.
i love burmese ruby ,it is my favorite stone.
posted on May 7, 2003 12:58:25 PM newyou are not driving me crazy with your ease of getting a mortgage
Just teasing you.
The jewelry is worthless to me until I can find it. I know I put it in a zip-lock bag. That was the last time I saw it.
i love burmese ruby ,it is my favorite stone.
If, I were forced to chose a stone it would be an emerald. I love to look at those. I would much rater have some Dolce & Gabbana boots though.
My actual costs, for running the internet stores is not much.
My living expenses and bills (if you don't include my book and shoe habit) are very little. Around $1100 month. I have no kids and my monkey contibutes about $600 month to help with the bills. That leaves me with about $500 to pay out of my own funds.
I really don't need to take anything from the internet stores. I choose to. I also don't mind putting money back into it.
I think many people bottom out, because they never increase the amount of their investment in their businesses.
posted on May 7, 2003 02:54:16 PM new
Forgive me for taking the thread back to the original question, but YES I have had one branch of my bank try the disappearing deposit trick on me TWICE. Both times were for deposits I made at the ATM machine. I'm convinced it was attempted theft by a bank employee.
The first said that a check I listed ($25.01) was not included in the envelope. I told them it jolly well was, that I made the deposit personally, and that I distinctly remember that check because I had to squint to be sure the amount was $25.01 and not just $25.00. I pressed until I got the teller that opened my deposit envelope and she agreed with me, as she said she had to squint to verify the amount of that check, too, so she remembered it. Someone up the line "lost" it. Funny, a couple of hours after I emailed the president of the bank, the missing check was "found."
It happened again a few weeks later, but this time the amount was $250.00. I raised hell again, and one of the president's assistants called me. They put the money back in my account and I believe they began an investigation. Don't know what happened, but I do know it hasn't happened to me at that branch since.
KEEP ALL RECEIPTS. And, double-check your account. I do that online, so I can catch stuff like this fairly quickly.
Side note: I love this bank president. He does the local commercials for the bank and pushes the policy that he has a dedicated email and phone number for customer complaints. "Ask Mike" he calls it. They are acted on PRONTO by his staff. He has really turned this bank around. Now if they can just root out all the thieves......
posted on May 7, 2003 02:58:58 PM new
how can they steal checks??
you can always find out from the back of the check where it went??
there are always 2 persons there when they process the deposits.
posted on May 8, 2003 01:28:32 PM new
This is why I never deposit cash through ATMs - always at a counter so someone counts it in front of you and hands you a receipt. My partner will deposit cash through ATMs, but he always counts it in front of the security camera. Don't know if that helps or not, quite frankly. I suspect half those cameras aren't working anyway.
Fortunately, there's a branch of my bank downstairs in my building.
