paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 04:38:29 PM new
I just sold to someone in Germany and after all I went through to get the specific size and everything now they want me to lie on the customs form so they won't have to pay any extra for customs fees.
I don't like to lie for any reason and usually avoid it at all cost. The post office clearks know I sell on ebay and they will know its merchandise not a gift.
Can the buyer do a charge back after I mail the package since they paid with paypal? Guess I'm a little paranoid especially after reading the posts here about charge backs being so easy for the buyer.
Thanks for any advice.
paws
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tomwiii
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posted on May 27, 2003 04:40:17 PM new
The buyer can do anything they like to you if you accepted an INTERNATIONAL payment!
There is NO sellers protection for sellers who ship outside USA!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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pointy
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posted on May 27, 2003 04:41:55 PM new
How much money are we talking about? And exactly what do you mean by getting the right size and everything? Can't give any suggestion till I know these things. Tomwii is right. International Paypal is a no-no. But again, how much money is involved?
[ edited by pointy on May 27, 2003 04:43 PM ]
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msincognito
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posted on May 27, 2003 04:54:56 PM new
Explain it to them exactly the way you did here (your post office knows you sell on eBay and you'd be doing something the clerks knew was illegal.) Also clue them in about the fact that mail fraud is serious in the U.S. I can't imagine any reasonable person giving you grief after that.
If they come back with " all the other sellers let me" you have the perfect built-in rebuttal: "Those other sellers might not be as well-known at their local post offices."
(I'm assuming the whole size thing was a need to educate them about the difference between US and European sizes.)
[ edited by msincognito on May 27, 2003 04:55 PM ]
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paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 04:58:23 PM new
pointy----
Sorry I tend to think people are mind readers or something....need to break that habit.
They bought some shoes in an auction and ask if I could get some more just like them in other sizes. It just happened that I had the sizes they needed so I combined the auction price with 2 more pair. The total cost is $38.00 and the shipping is almost as much $29.50 because of the weight. I added a little ($3.00) for handling which I always do.
I saw a post here that it is ok to sell something off ebay so I did it. I always thought you couldn't do that but the rules have changed. Anyway to get off that rabbit trail they paid with paypal and I realized that they might do a charge back if I didn't do what they asked. I could do nothing about it especially since most of the transaction was off ebay. Which I probably couldn't do anything if it was ON ebay.
So tomwii what you are saying is I better lie if I don't want them to do a charge back. I wanted to enlarge my selling market by selling in Europe, Canada, and Austriala but it comes with problems. The buyer is verified but I guess that doesn't mean anything either.
Guess I'm cornered. Huh?
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paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:00:40 PM new
msincognito--------
You are GOOD! I'll try that and see how it works.
Thanks a bunch!
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auctionace
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:01:39 PM new
The clerks in my post office barely glance at the customs forms ... just enough to see it was signed and filled out.
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tomwiii
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:15:15 PM new
NO!, being VERIFIED means absolutely NOTHING!!
I don't think you correctly read my post 
I sell internationally all the time! I complete customs forms ONLY honestly!
HOWEVER, I do NOT accept PayPal payments from NON-USA buyers, & all my auctions state thus!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:23:42 PM new
I always mark "Merchandise" on the customs labels. But for the value, I mark down the price that I paid for the item which is usually much less than I sold it for. It helps keep the customs fees down for the customer.
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paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:25:47 PM new
tomwiii---
So what form(s) of payment do you accept from international buyers. I didn't think you meant you didn't sell international. I am signed up for Bidpay but that is the only other one I am signed with.
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pointy
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:34:16 PM new
Number one....don't lie on the customs form and don't feel like you're being held hostage by any requests the buyer makes. You have 2 choices, either go ahead and ship, or refund the Paypal payment. If you ship, write an e-mail explaining nicely that you will ship securely, but that asking you to lie on a customs form is not right and would be a criminal act for both of you. If you ship be prepared for the slim possibility of a chargeback. I personally don't think that people buying shoes are going to do a chargeback, and your actions on the customs issue are not going to affect their decision. The other choice is to write the e-mail saying asking such a request is verboten and you are returning their money. In either case, the most important lesson to be learned is that you are never protected as a seller with International Paypal payment. On the other hand Paypal is the most convenient way to pay. So each seller has to set their own limit of how much they will do a Paypal transaction for where they are liable for a possible chargeback. It becomes a cost of doing business. Like accepting any credit card really.
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auctionace
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:37:13 PM new
I always tell international buyers I accept either PayPal, BidPay, money orders in US funds, or well concealed cash. I've never had any international selling problems in 5 years on online selling.
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tomwiii
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posted on May 27, 2003 05:50:28 PM new
BidPay
PayingFast
International Postal Money Order
That's all of them.
My selling butt hangs totally out in the wind with PayPal -- CYA by refusing it from international buyers.
I can't afford games with these folks -- rather they screw someone who does accept foreign PP
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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stopwhining
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posted on May 27, 2003 06:40:16 PM new
you are just assuming your german buyer will file chargeback if they are not happy with the declared value on the customs form.
38 dollars is not a big sum,the customs may be rather small.or if they are lucky,they pay no customs.
how about just mark them as sample instead of gifts.
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pointy
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posted on May 27, 2003 07:09:23 PM new
That's bad advice whining. It's a felony. Is it really worth it for $38. How about just declaring it as what it is....merchandise.
.
.
.If it was me, I'd ship shoes all day long Internationally taking Paypal......as long as it was no more than 2 pairs to a customer, and it was not to any of the "countries to avoid" like Indonesia. I think the risk of chargeback on shoes is small. But that's me, and as I said earlier, each seller has to set their own personal limit as to what they are comfortable with.
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stopwhining
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posted on May 27, 2003 07:44:15 PM new
true,samples are bad idea.
one must not assume buyers will file chargeback just because now they have shoes to wear but have to pay customs,38 dolars for 2 pairs with 29 shipping ,not a bad deal,are these designer shoes??
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inot
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posted on May 27, 2003 08:04:24 PM new
Paws...IMHO I would'nt compromise my ethics for anyone. I have only been asked twice to lie on customs forms in my four+ years of selling and just replied with sorry, I don't do that. Thanks to Tomwiiis warnings about international chargebacks, I no longer accept Paypal from international buyers, I only accept Bidpay and Payingfast. I've had 2 international sales in the past 2 weeks, both paid with Bidpay without any problems.
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paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 08:07:37 PM new
stopwhining-------
No they are not designer shoes but I wish I knew where to get some wholesale. Just Converse All Stars which I guess is a hot thing there plus I sell international. I don't think many people sell internationally. They look like the old black and white high top tennies like the late 50's except they aren't high tops. They have the backs out (no heels) and are called mules but they do tie just like the old high tops. I don't like them because they are a little heavy with thick rubber soles. They got a good deal since most like them are selling for around $18.99. I found a good deal on them and took a chance.
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paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 08:13:54 PM new
What is Payingfast and how does it work? Is it like Bidpay? Never heard of it.
I hate to lie no matter how small the lie. I almost carry it to an extreme sometimes. My mom always says "If you really want to know the truth about something just ask her (me)". I'm not know as Ms. Subtle more like Ms. Plain spoken.
I guess I will compromise. I will check the merchandise but like someone earlier said put in the amount I paid for the goods which is lower. I don't know if that is lying or skirting the issue or both.
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Roadsmith
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posted on May 27, 2003 08:19:56 PM new
Paws: Do NOT lie! You'd pay a lawyer lots more than $38 to represent you in a felony. It is simply not worth it.
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paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 08:41:48 PM new
OK y'all convinced me to tow the line with no compromise. I'll redo the customs form and put the retail price on amount. Sure wish I knew how much the customs will cost. I mailed an item to England with the retail of $32.00 and the buyer said she had to pay quite a bit but didn't define what that was.
Thanks guys!
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kiara
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posted on May 27, 2003 08:53:12 PM new
If bidders from other countries don't know the rules about Customs charges they will soon learn.
The sellers that lie on the forms only encourage the bidders to keep asking all the honest sellers to lie on the forms also.
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inot
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posted on May 27, 2003 09:16:17 PM new
Paws, Payingfast is another venue for international buyers to pay through using their credit card. Without going into the specifics, they do not allow chargebacks even from international sales, unlike Paypal. You can check out their site at www.payingfast.com.
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classicrock000
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posted on May 27, 2003 09:57:47 PM new
This might sound like a silly question,but how can a customs offical tell if its a gift or your selling merchandise?
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paws4God
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posted on May 27, 2003 10:06:12 PM new
They can't. But I know and the postal clerk knows since they know I sell on ebay.
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sparkz
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posted on May 27, 2003 10:08:41 PM new
There's not much you can do if you didn't bar Paypal payments for international transactions in your TOS. Go ahead and ship the shoes. Mark the customs forms merchandise and put the high bid price as the value. If they are the type of people who will do a chargeback because you refused to commit a crime, they would probably do it no matter what you do to try to accomodate them. If they do a chargeback, file a fraud report with the U.S. Postal service and forward their email requesting you to lie on the customs form to the Ministry of Customs in Germany. Neither will probably get any results, but you'll feel a little better afterwards. And change that tos NOW! Bidpay, Payingfast and International money orders only for international shipments.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
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davebraun
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posted on May 27, 2003 10:10:07 PM new
I accept PayPal for international shipments at least 5 times a week sometimes more. Usually France, UK, Germany, Japan and Australia. Been doing it for years with no problems, no chargbacks etc. The only chargeback I ever had was from a US buyer, lied and claimed non-delivery although they had emailed me on receipt and I had eDC. Amount was small and wasn't worth the hassle of fighting PayPal. For the most part postal clerks could care less what is on a customs declaration and I highly doubt that anyone will ever be questioned about a transaction. Clerks at my PO only check that it is signed and dated. I'd do whatever is confortable for you but be upfront with the buyer. Tell them whatever but be upfront about your intentions. As to details on form as few words as possible is generally better.
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zircon4
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posted on May 27, 2003 10:12:36 PM new
There is no need to lie on the form. I purchase items from the US on ebay all the time. Here in Australia there is a minimum value that has to be reached before GST is applicable. which is AU$200. If I am intending to purchase a more expensive item I take the 10% GST into consideration along with the shipping. If the total is still cheaper than a local purchase I buy from Overseas. I believe that most countries also have a minimum $ value before any tax or duty is applied.
Cheers,
Adrian
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auctionace
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posted on May 27, 2003 10:24:47 PM new
I'd love to see a site that had the customs limits for various countries. I guess it's not worth the hassle to create and maintain such a site.
If I sold expensive items I'd be more inclined to bar PayPal international buyers.
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zircon4
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posted on May 28, 2003 12:17:26 AM new
It would not be too big a task. If someone is in a country outside the US, find out your country's minimum and post it here. If everybody posts it in the format:
Country, Minimum Value, Current Date.
I would be willing to host a page that contained all the info. I would not be putting any advertising for myself or anybody else on the page just the above information. It is going to be very basic so maintenance will be very straight forward. Let me know what you think!
Cheers,
Adrian
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