posted on June 13, 2003 11:57:26 AM new
Hi
I bid on two delft statues that the seller stated were delft, but they are not delft, they are japan.
I asked if i can return them and I feel the Seller should reimburse me shipping back the statues also. Her reply was..............
I will be happy to refund the entire amount you originally paid. If you would have asked me to look for marks or however you tell if they are original, I would have gladly done so, you didn\'t ask . I did not try to deceive you and have not had this problem with any other delft items I have sold and I assure you , there were well over 100 to start. I accept the responsibility but I do believe that some of the responsibility is yours as well in not asking the questions needed to know if you were getting exactly what you wanted. I feel it\'s fair for you to pay for the shipping back to me and when I receive the items, I will issue 100% refund back to you. Let me know your thoughts
NOW: why would i have to ask her questions about markings when she stated they were DELFT.............i believed what she stated in her auction.
Let me know what you would do ...........should I pay to ship them back or should she pay...................I think she should pay because she misrepresented them, why should it cost me for her mistake..........bad enough its costing me my time.
posted on June 13, 2003 12:01:23 PM new
Obviously, if she represented the items as DELFT and they prove instead to be DRECK, then OF CORSE this clown should pay shipping both ways & beg on her bozo knees for forgiveness!!
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posted on June 13, 2003 12:33:15 PM new
Very few sellers will pay the return postage even if it was their honest mistake. The profit margins are so thin on ebay that losing money on an auction is unappealling. If I was the seller I personally would pay for the return postage with insurance but I'm afraid that I'm in the minority.
posted on June 13, 2003 12:45:32 PM new
Seller is trying to finese her way out of paying return postage. If you feel your evidence is clear that the object simply isn't Delft quietly tell her the item was not as advertised and postage both ways is what's called for. If she asserted the item was Delft why should you have to reconfirm it is?
posted on June 13, 2003 01:04:20 PM new
I don't know how much you spent on these two items, but my answer assumes that return shipping would cost considerably less than the amount you bid.
If that's the case, I'd return them, quickly, and use a shipping method that is 100 percent trackable (not just DC.) My reasoning is this:
1) She's already been either careless or deceitful about the description.
2) She has offered a 100 percent refund.
3) If she intends to keep your money and your items, you're maximizing your window of time to pursue other avenues (fraud charges, chargeback, etc.)
It doesn't make what she did right, though it sounds more as if she's dumb than intentionally crooked. But right now I'd focus on getting as much of your money back as possible and then worry about the rest.
------------------- We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
posted on June 13, 2003 01:17:54 PM new
if you want to return an item to a brick and mortar store,do you ask the retailer to come to your house to pick up the item??or do you drive there and ask the retailer to reimburse you for gas,depreciation of your car and your time??
posted on June 13, 2003 01:19:46 PM new
She had Delft in the title and also she put the auction in the Delft category. It leads the buyer to think that's what it is. Either she did this to get bids or she doesn't know what actual Delft is. To me, this is another seller that hides behind "e-mail questions" and "all sales final".
These don't look at all like Delft so I wouldn't have bid but that's just me. While I don't agree with the seller's tactics I would suck it up as not being aware of what I was buying as it states that all sales are final and the price was only $5.00.
Sometimes I would go to bat for $5.00 and other times not. You could always try to work it out or mention in the feedback that they were not Delft.
posted on June 13, 2003 02:13:56 PM new
If it costs more to ship them back than it does to keep them, I retract my opinion. I'd just keep them and leave appropriate feedback.
------------------- We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
posted on June 13, 2003 02:28:58 PM new
I wonder if someone has ever offer to return an item that was described as Japanese and it was Delft? "Your item is worth $100 but your error in the auction description let me get the item for only $5". Naw, never would happen.
posted on June 13, 2003 02:42:52 PM new
Well, as a seller for 5 years and one that does what is right I would only expect this seller to do what is right.
Making a statement.......which she did..........saying it was delft but in reality it is just japan..........and Kara not being as sharp with the eye as you are I just feel if a seller states something then that seller knows what they are doing.......if she didnt know for sure she should not have stated it was Delft, but say its delft look alike.........now about the price of the statues............i paid what she asked and I gave her the shipping cost that she asked,,,,,,,,,,I am just curious as to why a Few of you feel I should live with these japan statues, and about her loosing money because of this well this was her own doing .................me as a buyer .....why should I loose my money????..
When I had my shops and a person asked me what the item was and when i said it was Delft I would stand behind it. they would not have to spend there time and gas in coming to retun anything that was stated as what it is.
You cant compare this to a shop.....?????????? Here on Ebay if your the seller then know what your selling, or if you dont know then be prepaired to take care of the problem to the fullest.
If this was my mistake I would not even ask to return them..........
Just like the seller I bought the 10 dolls from, she is not correcting the problem so I will just live with the doubles because there is nothing I can do more then I have tired to do. And this again was not a mistake on my part but she was the one who was out of stock on an auction item, so, ok no problem, but give me a choice of what I would like to do, dont just send me doubles
of other auctions that I won...........nothing lately seems to make any sense to me anymore when it comes to doing business here on ebay.......weather your a seller or a buyer..........
posted on June 13, 2003 02:49:33 PM new
AuctionAce.........sorry to say but your posting dont make any sense to me..........
How about seeing that even delft items start at a low price and if they sell well whos fault is that,,,,,,,,should it be the buyers fault?...........if you as a seller want to give your item away and along comes a buyer and places a bid.............and gets something low priced but worth more..........are you against that???? who's fault is that..........well its not the buyers fault........its the sellers fault for listing it cheap...........I'm sorry but you are getting off the topic here.
and I dont appricate what your implying, I'm sorry but this is how I feel.
posted on June 13, 2003 03:13:22 PM new
stopwhining:
Not the same thing at all.
At a B&M store you pick up the item, turn it over, try it on or whatever.
Change your mind, it's your mistake & you pay expenses to return it.
This "mistake" was made by the seller, she should pay the return postage.
posted on June 13, 2003 03:34:49 PM new
You do have to remember that ebay is an auction. There is a certain amount of gamble in any auction. The seller probably quickly researched the item on ebay and decided it was a certain kind. That was her mistake but an honest mistake in her eyes. If you want to recoup any of the money at all you'll have to pay the return s/h and chalk it up to expierence. That's the way it is on ebay whether it's right or wrong.
posted on June 13, 2003 03:42:09 PM new
tonimar1: As we can all see, you typically don't pay much for things. Of the last 18 items you won, you paid $5.00 or less for 11 of them.
You, my dear, are a bottomfeeder.
I wonder, did you complain to your seller when those 30 inch gold chains turned out not to be gold? No? Is it because you understand that "gold" is both a color and a precious metal?
Hmmm. Gee, could it be that Delft is both a place of manufacture and a style? Could it be that the word "Delft" is so commonly understood to be a style of decoration that many, many potteries elsewhere in the world use the word as well?
No, don't bother answering. I know the answers and besides, I don't think the punctuation keys on your computer can take much more abuse.
--
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posted on June 13, 2003 04:57:47 PM new
Well, Fluffy ...........I see you as a person who hides behind a name fluffythewondercat **************
wants to criticize someone who has nothing to hide...................
Well your opinion means nothing to me because I have followed your postings I hope I never buy from you, because you are the type of seller I am talking about. You are rude and nasty with your reply's. You think the sun rises and sets on *********fluffy********cause you are the last word. Well not in my book."Who Ever Your Are"
you think because I won these items for low prices I should get screwed ??????????????????? Is this your way of thinking.............Well how about when I win expensive items is it OK then to complain when the seller misrepresents there merchandise ???????
The chains I did not expect them to be more then metal........AND WHAT DO THE CHAINS HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD ANYWAY???????
Not knowing my background as to what knowledge I have you have no right to attack me as your doing or even criticize me for how I do things..........YOU are the one with the biggest mouth and the least amount of knowledge to offer this forum.............
Please don't feel you need to reply, cause I know what your going to say..........remember I got you in my book...........
Gee can it be delft is a place? Or wait can it be that delft is the name of a pottery?.........Gee let me guess, wait,,,,,,,I can ask "fluffy" she knows EVERYTHING.
posted on June 13, 2003 05:31:57 PM new
delft originated in holland,but other countries copy the style and make delftware as well.
in recent years the delft dutch moccasin and candlestick etc you see in souvenir shops are made in japan then taiwan or hong kong.
i have sold some delft style ceramic tiles made in england.
so delft is a style not exclusively made in holland.
it is hard to say without seeing the item page if the seller is being deceptive or the buyer should ask for the country of origin.
if they are made in japan,they could be worth something/
posted on June 13, 2003 05:37:08 PM new
tonimar1, the seller wrote a polite letter and offered 100% refund on the item even though the auction did state to e-mail questions and that all sales are final. So she could just as easily have said no refunds when you complained to her.
If it was me I would use this as a lesson to be more careful next time and if no mark is shown in the auction or mentioned in the description to e-mail and ask. $5.00 is a cheap price to pay for a lesson. Other bidders have spent a lot more money to learn this same thing.
posted on June 13, 2003 05:49:56 PM new
now,LIMOGE is a different matter.
Limoge is a place in france,the artists create those interesting porcelain boxes commonly referred to as limoge,after the place,LIMOGE.
in recent years ,japanese,chinese and thai all made these porcelain boxes and call them limoge.
The french went to intl court and won the case that only french porcelain boxes made in limoge,france can be referred to be as limoge.
millions were spent to win the case in intl court and the french chamber of commerce continues to monitor trade shows and places where limoges are sold to make sure no other country but france can call their boxes limoge.
if you search ebay,you will see many limoge style boxes which mean they are not made in limoge,france and they cost a lot less,under 10 dollars.
posted on June 13, 2003 07:09:51 PM new
Genuine or imitation Delft?
The name Delft on a piece of pottery does not mean that it is actually genuine Delftware. Delft is a cityname and therefore not protected, so this name may be used all over the world.
posted on June 13, 2003 07:44:18 PM new
When both the seller and buyer don't know what they are doing this happends. It takes more than Ebay to be a real seller or real collector. This sounds like an amateur boxing match that I would call it a DRAW. Neither fighter has much to lose or win.
posted on June 13, 2003 07:56:48 PM new
Tonimar1, I just had another idea. Buy a couple gold fish put the fake delft in the gold fish bowl. The fish won't care where they were made.
posted on June 13, 2003 08:22:20 PM new
bigpeepa......Now thats a great Idea!!!!!!!!
Why don't I just take them outside and let the kids on the block use them for target practice, ......whata u think?.........or maybe you have another great idea.
Maybe I'm asking too much from an Ebay Seller, I guess nothing like spending 6.00 shipping and 1.30 ins. and lets not forget the big 5.00 for the "Delft" Statues.........so if I pay the shipping back then I would have said to this seller......hey keep doing what your doing cause there are those that woun't complain and you would have gotten away with your misrepresented Item........
if you check her feedback you will find she did the same thing to another seller I think back in May, and now with this listing knowingly she used the same listing information as she did with the auction that the other buyer complained about .....were the salt and pepper shakers she was selling she said were delft then too.
So, by her doing this it's telling me she knew it and just didnt care.
posted on June 13, 2003 08:43:34 PM new
Toni - lets break this down.... this seller has told you what they are willing to do. You can rail and complain but unfortunatlely it is not going to change the situation. You can send the items back and get back a portion of your sales or just deal with it but your seller has made their position clear and unfortunately, no one here is going to change their mind. There are times you accept the lesson learned and move on with a lesson learned - ask the specific question next time - I learned the same thing last week with an $80 item - luckily I was able to resell it.
posted on June 13, 2003 08:46:43 PM new
Sellers may have their own preconceived ideas about what they are selling, I know I sure do. But they also need to consider what a buyer or collector will see in a description. I would consider anything described as Delft as being manufactured in Holland. I also consider anything described as Roseville or McCoy as being manufactured in the U.S. It makes no difference that all three of the above items are being knocked off in other countries in the Carribbean and Asia. When a seller has this information, it is incumbant upon him/her to include it in the auction description. To knowingly conceal something as vital as the country of origin is misreprentation. A scam artist is a scam artist no matter what amount of money is involved. Some only play for small amounts. Others go for larger amounts. The really great ones go to prison. Tonimar1 is correct on this one. She was screwed by a seller who misrepresented the item she was selling.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on June 13, 2003 08:46:55 PM new
tonimar1, the term Delft can be used all over the world.
What part of this don't you understand? If you were expecting Delft, Holland you should have done your homework and e-mailed the seller to ask what the mark on the bottom was.
I suggest you do a search on ebay for Delft. Look how often the term "Delft blue" is used. I swear that bidders look at a picture and make up their minds what it is without doing research and then expect the item to be exactly as they have imagined it to be and then when it arrives they act like you have.
No, don't give them to the kids for target practice. Set them up by your computer to remind you to ask questions before bidding if the auction doesn't mention something.
posted on June 13, 2003 09:18:43 PM newToday, Delftware is a generalized term that encompasses many types of pottery produced by a number of manufacturers.
I also believed that the term Delft was synonymous with the Holland pottery. But I also knew on ebay that many blue and white items were referred to as Delft and I recognize many of the pieces that were made in Japan and China as they have come and gone in my shop and most of the figurines are quite common.
Actually I purchased some Delft a few weeks ago and it was made in Holland. I hadn't bothered to research it so this thread has taught me something.
So thanks, tonimar1. And yes, I have bid on things that I thought were something else also. It happens to many of us.
posted on June 14, 2003 10:53:13 AM new
I lived in the Netherlands for 14 years. "Real" Delft is made at "De Porceleyne Fles" located in Delftshaven. It can be identified by the unique mark and it's VERY expensive. These days, there are all kinds of items with "Delft" on the bottom...Delftware, Delft poly, Delft blau (blue)...and buyers of "real" Delft should educate themselves. On the other hand, a lot of these other items are really quite nice too...and a lot is made in the Netherlands...but it's not the "real" Delft.
