stopwhining
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posted on June 14, 2003 11:16:31 AM new
the chinese are making satsuma and imari and boasted they are bigger and better and cheaper.no one has paid them to make roseville and mccoy yet.
a pair of statues delft style and made in japan at 5 dollars,thats a steal.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on June 14, 2003 02:17:32 PM new
Huh? I don't know about McCoy, but there's a lot of fake Roseville coming from China.
--
California voters: Be a part of the first-ever successful gubernatorial recall! Defy media pundits! $21 million of our money is going down the tubes daily because of our incompetent corrupt governor. Visit http://www.recallgraydavis.com to download your recall petition.
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tonimar1
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posted on June 15, 2003 05:04:49 PM new
I contacted the buyer of these statues and told her I will keep them because its not worth it to me to spend 6.00 to return them.
But if this was my mistake as a Seller....i would pay all expenses for the mistake that was made, but in this case she feels its not her fault. So let it be. She wins.......I will also leave her a neg feedback for misrepresenting her item.
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kiara
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posted on June 15, 2003 06:26:28 PM new
Delft is a generalized term.
You fail to take responsibility for being unaware of what you are buying so you put all the blame on the seller.
The seller offered you a 100% refund on the item. Yet you will still neg her over a $5.00 item? I wonder how quick you would be to neg if they hadn't left you positive feedback first? I find this very sad.
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stopwhining
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posted on June 15, 2003 06:51:00 PM new
me too,i hope the seller NEG her in return .
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tomwiii
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posted on June 15, 2003 07:04:37 PM new
WOW! This is a tough one! And, for once, I find myself dis-agreeing with Kiara! 
I think what Kiara (& others) are saying is that the term "Delft" should be regarded the same as "Stoneware" or "pottery." Kind of a generic term that refers to any blue-ish china that resembles the famous stuff from Holland -- am I understanding this correctly?
You may be correct as an expert! My interpretation of this mess leans towards what I call the COMMON SENSE rule. IOW: if one were to survey 1000 normal American's of everyday backgrounds & education, how would they respond to: "What is Delft China?"
Kiara (& others), who are experts, would say it is a generic term. I tend to think that the overwhelming majority of folks view DELFT as Dutch blue china.
I see this seller differently...as a weasel who should obviously refund 100% + shipping both ways.
There seems to be a trend on eBay to water-down definitions to the point where everything can turn out to be anything!
My view is that a generally intelligent & educated buyer would feel scammed if purchasing "DELFT" & ended up with something from Nippon!
IMNSVHO!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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tonimar1
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posted on June 15, 2003 07:25:02 PM new
I didnt notice that she had left me feedback ......Kara.............now that you brought this up ............If she hadnt left me feedback I would have given her a neg. for I feel she misrepresented this item........But since she left me a positive I guess I will do the same for her and let other buyers find out for themself..........by leaving a neg is mainly to inform other buyers of how she conducts her business, but as you say...........its all my own fault and I should take the blame for not having the forsight to know that delft can mean many things.
But for many years I knew of delft to be marked delft and also marked Holland.............but as you say.......that is not the case all the time.
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neonmania
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posted on June 15, 2003 07:26:57 PM new
I guess I see this a different way - obviously these pieces were bought for their nakme value, not because the pieces themselves or it would be no big thing.
NOW - with that in mind - by doing a search of delft and looking at the first two pages I have learned that delft is apparently a color of blue, a style and a maker. If Toni is a collector of Delft, why has she not figured our what can easily be seen by someone that has knowledge of the genre? I collect a specific line of widgets - lets call them Acme Widgets, they go for 50 -200 depending on the style. There are a similar type of generic widgets that uniformed sellers label as Acme WIgdets. They are not trying to purposely defraud, they are just idiots. When I see a listing for Acme Widgets - I check - 99% of the time they are generic widgt. If for some reaon I cannot readily tell from the info in the auction I write the seller and ask for a detail that is specific only to the Acme WIdgets. If I don't do this and I buy a generic thinking I may be getting a ridiculously low price the find out it was a generic, is it the seller fault or mine? I knew the price was unreasonably low, I knew that Acme has become an overused term in the genre and I did not take the time to ask for the specific info I knew would clarify my question. As far as I am considered - I screwed up - not the sellers fault.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
[ edited by neonmania on Jun 15, 2003 07:39 PM ]
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tonimar1
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posted on June 15, 2003 07:30:24 PM new
And one more thing while we are on feedback........the lady who didnt send me 3 of the dolls I bought and who is not answering my emails..................I was thinking of giving her all positive feedbacks on the correct dolls that I received and .......................on the dolls that I didnt receive I would give her neg. feedback..........What do you think?..........now she has not left me feedback as yet...........So i guess I am free to do as I please in this case, is that right?
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kiara
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posted on June 15, 2003 07:36:40 PM new
I did say that the seller was hiding behind the "e-mail questions" and "all sales final" but that isn't against ebay's rules. Yes, it pizzes me off that so many sellers are like this but that's the way it is.
I am certainly not an expert but after researching Delft it does look like it's becoming a generalized term worldwide so technically the seller was not wrong to put it in the Delft category though I agree she should have mentioned the mark.
It is just as much the responsibility of the buyer to research and ask questions. Look at all the fake depression glass, etc. on ebay. This is not just an ebay thing, there have always been antique dealers and swap meet sellers that spin wild tales about items right in front of the customer when the customer has a chance to handle items firsthand.
I spent hours at several flea markets today and I like to play the dummy and listen to all the stories that the vendors tell. And it just so happens that today a seller was telling the lady next to me that a small blue and white pitcher and bowl set was Delft, Holland and I knew this was recently out of China. Buyer beware no matter where you buy!
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japerton
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:40:13 AM new
Okay, here is my question tonimar1...
Why would you bid on an item of this nature without a scan of the mark?
Or at least research a little bit about the subject?
I don't know jack about that kind of thing, of course I get a rash just thinking about bric-a-brac, but man, you just let that seller get away with that kind of crap because they were too lazy/sleazy to explain that it was a cheap piece of whatever.
"Belonged to my grandmother" they forgot to add "when she bought them at the dollar store two weeks before she died."
I don't know you well enough to insult you, Fluffy has all the charm of a wet raccon, but she/he is on her/his game on certain topics, I do have to respect that.
Look at the bright side. Five paltry bucks and your learning curve has just notched up a bit!
Lot's of books at the library under delft.
Best...J
ps I agree with Tom...weazel...but tonimar1 you let him weazel you!
Edited to add...no offense fluffy, I have three cats...one of which is the size of a raccoon....
[ edited by japerton on Jun 16, 2003 12:48 AM ]
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tonimar1
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posted on June 16, 2003 06:42:11 AM new
japerton
I bid on this item because it was a low opening bid, and I am just a trusting person, if you make a statement in your auction well then I believe it to be true.
Like when I make statements in my auctions.
Lesson learned...........not so all the time.
I also did not know that the word Delft meant so many different things to many defferent people.....Kara has brought that to my attention.
I went and left her the positive feedback, and told her I will just keep these blue and white statues. As Kara Stated.......it was not nice to leave her a neg fb when she had left me a positive first. I would have liked to neg her so other buyers would know to double check what she is selling because she is misleading.........in my opinion.
Kara is not realizing that its not the cost of an item that determins if you leave a Neg. or Positive fb to your seller, it's the performance of the transaction and the truth in the listing and its how the seller will correct the problem.
Ok, I will take all the blame in this transaction and in future purchases I will be more aware and not as trusting....................So, Yes I did learn from this small loss.
But as a seller I have always done everything to make my buyers happy and confident in there purchses from me and I will continue to do as I have always done but when it comes to buying on Ebay...........Oh Boy!!!!!!!!!!!!It can be a nightmare.............or it can be good...........Buyer Beware!!!!!!!!!!!!
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noh2
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posted on June 16, 2003 06:49:53 AM new
you said,But as a seller I have always done everything to make my buyers happy and confident in there purchses from me and I will continue to do as I have always done but when it comes to buying on Ebay...........Oh Boy!!!!!!!!!!!!It can be a nightmare.............or it can be good...........Buyer Beware!!!!!!!!!!!!
////////////////
does it mean you will pay for return shipping on a 5 dollars item??
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tonimar1
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posted on June 16, 2003 07:11:48 AM new
noht..............to answer your question.............YES I WOULD AND I HAVE AND ALWAYS WILL DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO KEEP MY BUYERS HAPPY.
I have had 3 retail stores all at the same time and I know that its my buyers that keep me in business ........so whatever it takes even when I take a loss with this buyer...........I will get back more in the end.
I do the same on Ebay with all my buyers and as you can see..........(I dont hide behind a name, I am an open Book)..........just check my feedback and you will see how I do business.
Example: A buyer bought camera lens from me and she contacted me saying they didn't fit her camera would I return her purchase price.........well its not my fault that she made the mistake but yes I did return her purchase price, and why Not?..........you keep a happy buyer and you can resell your item again.
Whenever a buyer of mine is not happy then I did something wrong and I do all I can to make them happy in there purchase if it means taking it back because its not what they thought it was,or for whatever reason.
Only I will pay shipping back to me if I made the mistake in my listing.
I will not pay shipping back to me if its because you just thought it was something that it is not. Because it is not my error.
I need to drew the line as to how much I will do for them.
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kiara
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posted on June 16, 2003 07:29:17 AM new
You are mistaken about what I said about leaving negative feedback. It has nothing to do with her leaving you a positive first or the cost of the item. I disagreed because this seller offered you 100% refund on the item even though she had "all sales final" in her description and she was very polite to you.
I feel you carried at least half the responsibility for this transaction and you continue to act like the helpless victim.
My opinion is just that. It is an opinion on a message board among all other opinions and you are old enough to choose what to do after weighing it all so don't try to pin this on me. Others disagreed with my opinion and said so. If kiara told you to jump off a bridge, would you do that also?
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tomwiii
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posted on June 16, 2003 07:31:40 AM new
Ralphie WOULD! But then, he's a Republican, so what do ya want??!!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
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trai
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posted on June 16, 2003 07:53:44 AM new
went and left her the positive feedback
If you feel so unhappy about this deal why leave anything at all? You may be a trusting person, but if you ran a real bm shop then you should know that people will try to screw you over right in front of you.
As someone who sold Delft, you should know the real thing from the cheap knockoff's, the fact that there was no picture of the mark should of been a clue to you at the start.
At this stage I would just move on. Some times one can get lucky and find a great bargain for next to nothing but you can not count on this all the time.
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tonimar1
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posted on June 16, 2003 08:44:31 AM new
The seller offered you a 100% refund on the item. Yet you will still neg. her over a $5.00 item? I wonder how quick you would be to neg. if they hadn't left you positive feedback first?
Yes, I KNOW THIS IS ONLY YOUR opinion Kara ........
And after hearing all the opinions I have decided to go with the majority.........
That's why I come to this forum......
And NO Kara, I would not take your advice as to what does not make any sense, but I did value your opinion. And I don't hold you responsible for anything I went and did.
I made my own choice as to what to do.
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blueyes29
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posted on June 16, 2003 10:45:00 AM new
Following are photos of the "real" Delft mark...it's on a little pice of black Delft I purchased at the Porcelyn Fles factory in Delftshaven...it was in the "seconds" section as the perfect pieces were MUCH too pricey for my budget...The second photo is of another piece NOT "real" Delft BUT, as marked, hand painted and from Holland in "Delft Blue".
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msincognito
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posted on June 16, 2003 11:00:51 AM new
blueyes29 That's very useful, thanks. I am going to save those to check some blue-and-white pieces I've got lurking about.
tonimar1 Given everything we've learned, I think you made a good call. It is frustrating for you, though ... maybe the target practice idea is not so bad!
-------------------
We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
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stopwhining
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posted on June 16, 2003 11:10:35 AM new
dont mean to sound cynical and sarcastic,do you think anyone is going to sell the delft statues(2) with these marks for 5.00 dollars??
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tonimar1
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posted on June 16, 2003 11:21:08 AM new
stopwhinning, its not the selling price its the opening bid price.................
Some sellers start good porcelain at low prices and they do end up with a realistic selling price.
I for one buy out entired homes in one complete lot and when my money is back and a decent profit I dont care what I get for for what is left, I start low and let it go, and when its a good item it does reach a fair market price so I never worry.
My best selling items are the ones I start under 10.00 and just let it go.
Thank you "blueyes" great information for all of us, not only me.........lol
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stopwhining
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posted on June 16, 2003 11:23:08 AM new
if so,then you must appeciate what a good deal you have won with 2 japanese delft at 5.00 plus shipping!!
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tonimar1
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:04:03 PM new
stopwHinning.............Is there a reason why your doing this?
Am I bothering you by posting here?.......
Or maybe you have nothing better to do then to keep picking on me.
Give it up already, and try talking either with knowledge or dont talk at all because your making me tired.....and giving me a headache.
Or maybe I should start a thread on how to step on someone while they are down......
I'm sure you would be the first to offer your great wisdom like you have displayed in the entire post....OH, did I thank you for all your help, no, awwwwwwwwwwwww I'm sorry.........THANK YOU STOPWINNING OR WHO EVER YOU ARE.....
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tomwiii
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:08:10 PM new
Toni: ye must not have read the sign on the wall here -- "Don't FEED the TROLLS!"
Truly, methinks tis time to ship this horsey to ye ole glue-fact...tis beaten enuf!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
[ edited by tomwiii on Jun 16, 2003 12:08 PM ]
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tonimar1
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:20:45 PM new
tomwiii................Fini...... At least it is for me anyway
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kiara
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:21:36 PM new
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stopwhining
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:27:11 PM new
yes,we should close this thread.i am getting more and more confused reading how a dealer with 3 BM stores,who bot whole house full of items and a great customer service would come to this board to ask what to do with a 5.00 purchase.
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stopwhining
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:30:17 PM new
no offense,thanks for giving us a chance to express ourselves and good luck to your next delft purchase.
labor cost is very high in japan and many japanese items are no longer made in japan,so your delft items could be worth something.
[ edited by stopwhining on Jun 16, 2003 12:31 PM ]
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neonmania
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posted on June 16, 2003 12:33:09 PM new
ROFL Kiara! You can be a real twisted puppy sometimes.
I like it!
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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